Not nearly as much. Keep in mind, the majority of players using 1-Star Champions are within their first hours. They learn about things like DOT Debuffs and Immunities with 1-Stars. What they don't learn about is Parry and Stun. That happens later, usually in the 2 Star Range.
While we all could look back and say "That's easy! New players can deal with Parry!", that's taking advanced knowledge into account, and not the average first-time experience of a new player.
but intercepting
Intercepting helps you play the Champion well, it doesn't add something like a Stun, which you have never encountered before.
A stun you've never encountered before
An intercept you've never encountered before
So why would one be harder to learn than the other? And why do you think it's that way round?
A few years ago when I was growing up in the game folks usually said you'd do good to learn parry around act 2/3, and you'd do good to learn to intercept around the end of act 5 / start of act 6. Obviously that's just the opinions of Youtubers and other experienced players, but it seemed generally accepted and agreed upon... at least, at the time.
I believe personally that intercepting is significantly harder to pull off than parrying is - there's a higher window for failure with intercepting. If you mess up a parry you're probably going to take some blocked hits. If you mess up an intercept that's a whole combo you're taking to your face, maybe even a special attack...
You have to unlock masteries for parry, you can intercept out the gate. People giving advice as to when you should learn it are different stories. It’s not what the company sees, as per what miike is saying.
Updated colossus can stun on well timed blocks. He does not need the parry mastery.
Not speaking about the champion directly. Learning parry requires you to unlock a masteries for it. Intercepting doesn’t, that’s the point that’s being made. Not champ specifics.
Not nearly as much. Keep in mind, the majority of players using 1-Star Champions are within their first hours. They learn about things like DOT Debuffs and Immunities with 1-Stars. What they don't learn about is Parry and Stun. That happens later, usually in the 2 Star Range.
While we all could look back and say "That's easy! New players can deal with Parry!", that's taking advanced knowledge into account, and not the average first-time experience of a new player.
but intercepting
Intercepting helps you play the Champion well, it doesn't add something like a Stun, which you have never encountered before.
A stun you've never encountered before
An intercept you've never encountered before
So why would one be harder to learn than the other? And why do you think it's that way round?
A few years ago when I was growing up in the game folks usually said you'd do good to learn parry around act 2/3, and you'd do good to learn to intercept around the end of act 5 / start of act 6. Obviously that's just the opinions of Youtubers and other experienced players, but it seemed generally accepted and agreed upon... at least, at the time.
I believe personally that intercepting is significantly harder to pull off than parrying is - there's a higher window for failure with intercepting. If you mess up a parry you're probably going to take some blocked hits. If you mess up an intercept that's a whole combo you're taking to your face, maybe even a special attack...
You have to unlock masteries for parry, you can intercept out the gate. People giving advice as to when you should learn it are different stories. It’s not what the company sees, as per what miike is saying.
Updated colossus can stun on well timed blocks. He does not need the parry mastery.
Not speaking about the champion directly. Learning parry requires you to unlock a masteries for it. Intercepting doesn’t, that’s the point that’s being made. Not champ specifics.
Op's point was, why was colossus's abilities not updated when BP got updated as 1 star, which is a valid question. Miike replied that parry and stun were advanced abilities which we learn only in 2 star level. But, intercepting is even more advanced which is required to use BP effectively. If that is the case, why does colossus not get an update when his description is easier than BP?. That is why I said, colossus does not need the parry mastery to stun on a well timed block, its available in his kit.
Not nearly as much. Keep in mind, the majority of players using 1-Star Champions are within their first hours. They learn about things like DOT Debuffs and Immunities with 1-Stars. What they don't learn about is Parry and Stun. That happens later, usually in the 2 Star Range.
While we all could look back and say "That's easy! New players can deal with Parry!", that's taking advanced knowledge into account, and not the average first-time experience of a new player.
And you don't learn about Intercepting and Baiting Specials with Aggressive Playstyles till even later... 😂
Colossus doesn't even Require his Parry Heavy to start his Rotation, unlike BPC's Intercepting which starts his Ramp Up and keeps it paused after activation, with Colossus you can just Spam Basic Attacks to Sp2s and do just fine.
Miike's point is (I think) that Colossus can stun the opponent without the parry mastery if you perform a well timed block, that could confuse a new player. It's not like you're gonna accidentally intercept with BP and get confused
Yeah but lets be realistic at the levels that a 1* is useful to a new plater there is absolutley no need to learn how to unlcok his best damage lol its block and hit and THATS IT
Yeah but lets be realistic at the levels that a 1* is useful to a new plater there is absolutley no need to learn how to unlcok his best damage lol its block and hit and THATS IT
What always gets me is, Colossus having Parry on Base would make for the Perfect Starting Champion for New Players just like Black Panther Classic having Intercepting Integral to his Kit.
They would be able to Learn about it in their first hours of playing upon pulling the champions whether they grind through the beginner content in a week and used Guides or only play like twice a week, you could have an Always Available Tutorial Quest where you have only a 1 Star Colossus and it walks you through what a Well-Timed Block and Parry is then at the end mentions "You will be able to Unlock Special Abilities called Masteries which will allow Every Champion to use this Parry Ability, continue playing to reach this point." Same for BPC with a Intercepting Tutorial, have the Fight show the Player an Example of Well-Timed Blocking or Intercepts respectively then Slow the Fight down for their first attempt then afterwards they go back to normal speed and have to attempt it 3 Times on their own. Maybe have a button that let's you reset the Tutorial incase they need to see it again, and boom the players now have a basic understanding of one of the Fundamental Mechanics of the Fighting System as well a basic understanding of a Timed Attack which can affect many Champion Abilities or be used in more Advanced Combos later on.
Yeah but lets be realistic at the levels that a 1* is useful to a new plater there is absolutley no need to learn how to unlcok his best damage lol its block and hit and THATS IT
Variant 4 Chapter 3 Quest 2.
What new Player is doing Variant 4?
That's the Quest you can Only use 1 Stars on, a Buffed champion that has a 1 Star Version affects the Limited Pool for that Quest.
Yeah but lets be realistic at the levels that a 1* is useful to a new plater there is absolutley no need to learn how to unlcok his best damage lol its block and hit and THATS IT
Variant 4 Chapter 3 Quest 2.
What new Player is doing Variant 4?
That's the Quest you can Only use 1 Stars on, a Buffed champion that has a 1 Star Version affects the Limited Pool for that Quest.
My point was there's a Use for 1 Stars outside of Beginner Content, not that New Players are gonna somehow be playing Variant Content. 😂 As well there will most likely be more Quests or Events with 1 Stars Used in Later Content in the future, last month had the Minty Arena where they gave the same Points as every other Star Rating.
This is not the average experience of a new player. Most new players do not finish Act 3 in their first day or two (though we want to push people that way in the future), and do not look at guides.
I get what you guys are going for, but you're solely looking at this through the lens of an experienced player, or a player that is aware of what to do when you start a new game and want the best info available. ...
I agree, that's the issue right there.
Leaving aside any thoughts on v4, very few people on the forums have the insight to recognise that purely by being a person who access the forums, they aren't the average player. And anyone who quotes or argues with the mods is even less representative of the average player; myself included...
Yeah but lets be realistic at the levels that a 1* is useful to a new plater there is absolutley no need to learn how to unlcok his best damage lol its block and hit and THATS IT
Variant 4 Chapter 3 Quest 2.
What new Player is doing Variant 4?
That's the Quest you can Only use 1 Stars on, a Buffed champion that has a 1 Star Version affects the Limited Pool for that Quest.
I'm aware. New Players aren't doing V4. The reasoning given was for newer Players. So I fail to see how V4 affects the decision.
With power creep in the game I believe new players should have three stars within the first week of playing the game. Where one stars matter the most is in V4. I believe if BPC is getting buffed as a one star Colossus should too. New players won’t know the difference.
Nobody's game experience is going to be altered in any significant way by the abilities of a 1* Colossus. If the 1* had the update it would be fine. But I don't really care that he doesn't have it.
My favorite part of this while thread is all the people arguing with the dude who actually has access to tons of player data including what champs they use at what point in progression.
The point everyone seems to miss about the Intercepting in buffed BP's kit is that most new players are just button-mashing and blocking. I remember when I first started I didn't even know what Ability Accuracy meant, let alone concepts like Intercept. I knew block, light, medium, heavy, special. With that mindset BP is a fun champ who will cause bleeds. Nothing too confusing for a new player because they aren't considering what Intercept even means
My favorite part of this while thread is all the people arguing with the dude who actually has access to tons of player data including what champs they use at what point in progression.
The point everyone seems to miss about the Intercepting in buffed BP's kit is that most new players are just button-mashing and blocking. I remember when I first started I didn't even know what Ability Accuracy meant, let alone concepts like Intercept. I knew block, light, medium, heavy, special. With that mindset BP is a fun champ who will cause bleeds. Nothing too confusing for a new player because they aren't considering what Intercept even means
Yeah. Like many here, I’m not buying the Kabam response given here. I had my own opinion of why 1* Colossus is the way he is before reading this thread, and nothing I’ve read since has been persuasive enough to change my mind.
My favorite part of this while thread is all the people arguing with the dude who actually has access to tons of player data including what champs they use at what point in progression.
The point everyone seems to miss about the Intercepting in buffed BP's kit is that most new players are just button-mashing and blocking. I remember when I first started I didn't even know what Ability Accuracy meant, let alone concepts like Intercept. I knew block, light, medium, heavy, special. With that mindset BP is a fun champ who will cause bleeds. Nothing too confusing for a new player because they aren't considering what Intercept even means
This is exactly the point, Colossus can also be played without Parry and if they don't read his Abilities they'll never even know. And if they do, well they learn about Parry a few hours of gameplay earlier which isn't going to Self Destruct Their Minds either...
Way back when there was a short time I forgot Ending Combo Mediums were a thing, so occasionally I'd use someone like Phoenix and see her occasionally do a Double Ending Attack and thought "Huh weird." then moved on. That's what most of the New Players will do with Black Panther and would do with Colossus...
Unpopular opinion alert - colossus still isn’t a caustic temper counter so the fuss over his 1-star is overblown.
It's not that he is a counter for a particular fight or path. Kabam seemed to have changed their stance in not updating 1 star due to the kit being too complex for new players. Even people arguing here can't seem to land on a point. If 1 stars are not going to be useful for more than a few hours, then there is no problem with updating 1 stars since it's not going to be so bad if new players learn about well timed blocks a few hours early.
Unpopular opinion alert - colossus still isn’t a caustic temper counter so the fuss over his 1-star is overblown.
It's not that he is a counter for a particular fight or path. Kabam seemed to have changed their stance in not updating 1 star due to the kit being too complex for new players. Even people arguing here can't seem to land on a point. If 1 stars are not going to be useful for more than a few hours, then there is no problem with updating 1 stars since it's not going to be so bad if new players learn about well timed blocks a few hours early.
The problem is that it will make a big deal if a 1* colossus is one of the first champs a new player gets. With the sheer amount and complexity of his abilities versus someone like Wolverine or OG Spider-Man, it would most definitely be more complex than the average player could understand or readily implement. 1* champs (outside of variant) are primarily for learning the basics of the game, and dash-attacking is most definitely one of the most basic skills you have to learn. Intercepting is just an extension of that. To play devil’s advocate, parrying is just an extension of blocking, which is one of the most basic concepts, but you can get through a lot of the game without blocking by learning to evade or dash back, but you can’t get through the game without attacking.
Unpopular opinion alert - colossus still isn’t a caustic temper counter so the fuss over his 1-star is overblown.
It's not that he is a counter for a particular fight or path. Kabam seemed to have changed their stance in not updating 1 star due to the kit being too complex for new players. Even people arguing here can't seem to land on a point. If 1 stars are not going to be useful for more than a few hours, then there is no problem with updating 1 stars since it's not going to be so bad if new players learn about well timed blocks a few hours early.
It's not even that they changed their stance on the topic, Colossus just appears to be an outlier, because you'll notice in the Champion Tab Gamora was another Buffed Champion who had her 1 Star Form Buffed as well... (Iirc her Buff was actually Before Colossus') Funny enough Just Like Colossus she has an Ability affected by Heavy Attack, and the easiest way to get those off is with a Parry... (As well I'd argue she's more Complicated than Colossus because Heavy Refreshing her Buffs is quite handy for her Damage Ramp Up, as well not getting Parry till Level 6 makes it harder to get Heavies off at times even on weaker AI)
Comments
I've officially seen it all now. Thanks guys! 😊
Colossus doesn't even Require his Parry Heavy to start his Rotation, unlike BPC's Intercepting which starts his Ramp Up and keeps it paused after activation, with Colossus you can just Spam Basic Attacks to Sp2s and do just fine.
They would be able to Learn about it in their first hours of playing upon pulling the champions whether they grind through the beginner content in a week and used Guides or only play like twice a week, you could have an Always Available Tutorial Quest where you have only a 1 Star Colossus and it walks you through what a Well-Timed Block and Parry is then at the end mentions "You will be able to Unlock Special Abilities called Masteries which will allow Every Champion to use this Parry Ability, continue playing to reach this point." Same for BPC with a Intercepting Tutorial, have the Fight show the Player an Example of Well-Timed Blocking or Intercepts respectively then Slow the Fight down for their first attempt then afterwards they go back to normal speed and have to attempt it 3 Times on their own. Maybe have a button that let's you reset the Tutorial incase they need to see it again, and boom the players now have a basic understanding of one of the Fundamental Mechanics of the Fighting System as well a basic understanding of a Timed Attack which can affect many Champion Abilities or be used in more Advanced Combos later on.
As well there will most likely be more Quests or Events with 1 Stars Used in Later Content in the future, last month had the Minty Arena where they gave the same Points as every other Star Rating.
Leaving aside any thoughts on v4, very few people on the forums have the insight to recognise that purely by being a person who access the forums, they aren't the average player. And anyone who quotes or argues with the mods is even less representative of the average player; myself included...
The point everyone seems to miss about the Intercepting in buffed BP's kit is that most new players are just button-mashing and blocking. I remember when I first started I didn't even know what Ability Accuracy meant, let alone concepts like Intercept. I knew block, light, medium, heavy, special. With that mindset BP is a fun champ who will cause bleeds. Nothing too confusing for a new player because they aren't considering what Intercept even means
Way back when there was a short time I forgot Ending Combo Mediums were a thing, so occasionally I'd use someone like Phoenix and see her occasionally do a Double Ending Attack and thought "Huh weird." then moved on. That's what most of the New Players will do with Black Panther and would do with Colossus...