A thought on characters, kits and buffs

ESFESF Member Posts: 2,045 ★★★★★
Hi, folks. Hope all is well.

Haven’t been around much because I truly don’t want to fight on message boards ever again. I don’t even want to be negative on boards anymore, really.

But how this game has been almost all of 2021…I just have to say something.

Guillotine was the final straw, but this is just as much about 2021.

To me — just my opinion — is that Guillotine was already relatively good. Seriously.

The kit was simple enough for anyone to just play. There was enough DPS against characters who bleed, with the built-in understanding that there are better kits against bleed immunes. The regen can be powerful, but it was offset by RNG. I have gone entire fights with barely any healing. It does happen.

Heal reversal is good utility in niche situations. The SP3 hits hard but is worthless without Souls.

All the character truly needed was for Soul collection to last a bit longer as part of the base kit. That could have been done at any time — any time — over the years.

My point: Guillotine wasn’t the elite. But the kit was balanced. It didn’t need a buff or a nerf.

My frustration is that there are still characters so much worse and time was spent on this.

I understand that I don’t own anything in this game. No control.

But we want to play the game and HAVE FUN.

If the answer to seriously flawed characters is to slow-walk improving them, or don’t at all, while doing fake buffs to Nova and Gamora and potential nerfs to Guillotine and Hood…what are we even doing?

While new releases like Super-Skrull and Mangog feel like they are throttled down and aren’t fun?

Is America Chavez fun to play?

Seriously.

Honest, simple question. Is America Chavez fun to play?

Am I quitting the game? No. Absolutely not.

But am I frustrated beyond belief?

YES.

It’s about having fun with these characters and the kits — to me, my opinion, there is nothing more important than the kits.

EVERYTHING FLOWS FROM THE KITS!

Crystal purchases, Arena grinding, resource grinding, content clearing…it all comes from players wanting the characters and kits!

This year has been so frustrating.

Comments

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  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Member Posts: 2,418 ★★★★★
    I wish they would make things easier for themselves with these buffs★. Maybe slide a few proposals out and see what hits. Maybe offer some unique abilities atypical of their class like Blade (with synergy) or Ronan. Some of these changes seem ill-advised change for the sake of a noticeable change.








    ★Nova: they could've lifted Mordo's heavy charging fury generation entirely and leave him pretty much unchanged otherwise. It fit the criteria perfectly. Does it keep his "essence" intact? Yep. Does it fit in the class structure? Procs buffs and lots, so that's a yep. Addresses the issues that people had? That brings his damage up nicely makes clock-watching less of a thing and gives his cool heavy animation some use.
  • L_217L_217 Member Posts: 109 ★★
    To the points made by @BigPoppaCBONE and @ESF , I wholeheartedly agree that the champion buffs alongside the crazy power creep presented in these newer kits make the game frustrating. I feel that champion balance is unfortunately forgone for a "fun and interactive" mechanic that seems fine, but is really a new way to make players feel inadequate. I feel that the original principle behind champions buffs has been degraded to the point where Kabam is afraid to pump out another Magneto. To which I agree, but making a champion "usable" with a buff should not be a status quo. Champion buffs as they first started made a underperforming champion become a standalone champion decent in the grand scheme of the Contest, but made them very excellent in a specific niche. Best example of this coming to light is in Terrax's and Kingpin's buffs.
    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/281964/champion-buff-proposal-taskmaster#latest
    As to the proposal ideas, I feel that more premeditated involvement in mapping out what champs are getting buffed and why is an important question that needs to be answered. Proposals like such could be great into understanding what issues with a base kit need to be fixed in a champion.
  • magnus_xixmagnus_xix Member Posts: 2,026 ★★★★★
    I've quite like the new champions. They may not be the best but I certainly think they're fun.

    As for the buffs, more specifically the tune ups, they, in recent months have been stinky. Which is a shame since they started off so well. Gamora was an L same with Ronin and Nova but the basis behind Ebony Maw I thought was well thought out. If they made his falter last 1 second longer against all non-science champs instead of just cosmics it would do wonders for his damage output.

    Inversely, YJ and CW weren't particularly good buffs but a lot of the overhauls/moderate updates since then have been pretty good imo. Miles, KG, VP, Hood, Bishop, Diablo, War machine, Ultron, OGBP, HTD, Xbones were all worthwhile buffs. Vulture I'm still not too sure on and Guillotine is looking to be another L.

    Now that the tune ups have been reduced to 1, hopefully, whoever is in charge of them can go back to making bangers like MM, Terrax, KP, Masacre, Angela and Mr F. I think Guillotine was just blip in the radar for whoever is in charge of the overhauls.
  • TrashyPandaTrashyPanda Member Posts: 1,574 ★★★★★
    No new champ should be mediocre; it's bad for sales, which is bad for all of us. New champs should be good enough to create hype. Not many gonna drop cash on Lady Stilt-Man, the solid B- champion.

    On buffed champs, well...

    To me, a successful champion has to satisfy at least 3 pillars:

    - A usable level of damage
    - Relevant utility (whether one hyper specific piece or piece or multiple useful pieces)
    - The previous two points are practical

    That was eloquently put, and is how I feel the baseline should be. The problem is that it requires an understanding of the meta, which is something I feel Kabam is lacking. By a... bit.

    Player outreach is a good idea. What we want, what we need, what we like. Forums are good for that. The CCP is good for that. No sense flying blind when you have so much free labor willing to light the way.
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Member Posts: 2,418 ★★★★★



    Player outreach is a good idea. What we want, what we need, what we like. Forums are good for that. The CCP is good for that. No sense flying blind when you have so much free labor willing to light the way.

    I think they actively avoid using novel buff suggestions that they see posted to avoid drama. If I had to guess, that's why we get weirdness stacked on awkward weirdness that no one asked for and doesn't add true value. They should re-use more of the good mechanics they've already created. Mordo's, Hyperion's, Quake's, Mutant synergies, Aegon's, etc. Just change the effects to suit. For that matter, whatever happened to root?
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  • ChikelChikel Member Posts: 2,108 ★★★★
    Wordunken said:

    ı had the idead but never wrote in down any of the topics but ıf guillotin's special animations are changed like DD maybe she can have 15hit sp'2 (BİG STRETCH) but its a posibility. if she doesnt there isnt any change to guilly.

    actualy with full synergy you can get huge amount of crit and crit dmg so critical bleeds can actualy be better at 30 souls (pre buff) with purgatory synergy rather than flat attack for half of the fight (ofcourse ı dont calculate the exact numbers). ıknow this isnt practical but guilly didnt have any practical use prior :D.

    and yeah for me kits make a champ too. ı actualy sig200 rank 5 nova and ı dont do aw. did ı use him anything other than beating winterssoldier? no. but ı find him fun like taskmaster.

    but sometimes a champ is so practical and effective at what it does, even if the kit is boring you actualy enjoy youself. when you beat a mega buffed dormamu with quake or huge degen fest omega with corvus you actualy feel awesome. and quake is so boring. you dont even use more than half of her animations. ı generaly get suprised when ı see her second medium animation.

    but a champ needs to be strong to get those kit flow/fun in my opinion. like red goblin , night thrasher and mr fantastic all have an awesome kit and ı like champs in games who have other small objective other than standart throw specific sp's and hit. but they just cant seem to shine.

    most fitting example can be taskmaster. he is incredibly fun, feels awesome to succeed with but he is just lacking in dmg and practicality in those utility/playstyle.

    ı hope they find better balance with upcoming buffs (highly doubt it, guillotine had nothing to bother with and she still has nothing it seems) and another point considering you sad guillotine was a low priority but she was our choice :) which makes the problem even worse. this buff had to be good . it was 1.our choice 2.after the 2 buffs per month.

    What's with the weird capital "I"?
  • RookiieRookiie Member Posts: 4,821 ★★★★★
    Wordunken said:

    My native language is turkish and we use them both. (With some others like ö,ğ,ü,ş,ç) upper or lower case so in my head there isnt any difference in those. dont mind it, simple mistake.
    But is that the only thing you want to mention :D

    I picked up on that right away, was like that guy is Turkish for sure, or his keyboard is messed up
  • Colinwhitworth69Colinwhitworth69 Member Posts: 7,470 ★★★★★
    Some buffs have been lacking but most have been excellent IMO.
  • ShadowstrikeShadowstrike Member Posts: 3,111 ★★★★★

    Speaking of Mangog and Super-Skrull, did I miss an announcement where Kabam no longer reviews newly released champs after a few months?

    I thought it was policy to review a champ's performance some amount of months after they are released. Obviously, that isn't happening. I clearly missed an announcement, so when was that approach abandoned? Or maybe I'm just completely misremembering and that was never a policy?

    Regardless of what I may or may not be incorrectly remembering, I think it's a bit ridiculous how little testing seemingly goes into these champs. A mediocre champ that is released today may have to wait years to be tuned correctly - which is rather disappointing. I'm not saying every champ has to be amazing, but the disparity in utility/power between some of the champs being released is quite confusing.

    If you heard the Kabam Broccoli interview, he created Mangog and originally it was declared TOO OP and had to be nerfed before release.

    However Broccoli also emphasized that it was necessary for the long term health of the game and after the whole Namor/ Cull tune down debacle, Kabam felt it was easier and safer for them to release a "weak" Champion and buff them up rather than release them as originally designed only for them to be nerfed, causing a subsequent uproar.
  • pseudosanepseudosane Member, Guardian Posts: 4,008 Guardian

    I've quite like the new champions. They may not be the best but I certainly think they're fun.

    As for the buffs, more specifically the tune ups, they, in recent months have been stinky. Which is a shame since they started off so well. Gamora was an L same with Ronin and Nova but the basis behind Ebony Maw I thought was well thought out. If they made his falter last 1 second longer against all non-science champs instead of just cosmics it would do wonders for his damage output.

    Inversely, YJ and CW weren't particularly good buffs but a lot of the overhauls/moderate updates since then have been pretty good imo. Miles, KG, VP, Hood, Bishop, Diablo, War machine, Ultron, OGBP, HTD, Xbones were all worthwhile buffs. Vulture I'm still not too sure on and Guillotine is looking to be another L.

    Now that the tune ups have been reduced to 1, hopefully, whoever is in charge of them can go back to making bangers like MM, Terrax, KP, Masacre, Angela and Mr F. I think Guillotine was just blip in the radar for whoever is in charge of the overhauls.

    Disagree with YJ being particularly good. I've run a campaign on here trying to show how awesome YJ really is. He is probably one of the best buffs to date.
  • DiablordDiablord Member Posts: 604 ★★★
    edited September 2021
    ESF said:



    Is America Chavez fun to play?

    Seriously.

    Honest, simple question. Is America Chavez fun to play?

    .


    America Chavez may not be a great champ but is really usefull in a lot of matchups.
    My go to hyperion counter btw.
    Even mangog is not the worst.
    Permenant unstoppable makes him not too bad.

  • Colonaut123Colonaut123 Member Posts: 3,091 ★★★★★
    America Chavez has a good kit, but requires some extra tuning of her damage and extra abilities to make her competitive. Purgatory, that's a bigger issue as her soul mechanic is deeply flawed.
  • The_Sentry06The_Sentry06 Member Posts: 7,803 ★★★★★
    I really dislike Purgatory's design. A lot of her utility is so-so/niche but her main drawback for me is that if we want to use that utility, we must rely on what the Quest designers thought in terms of placing class matchups. Add to that her very lackluster damage and almost useless regen and she's really one of my least favorite champs released in recent times.
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