@Saiyan would I be correct in concluding that by defeating WS in RoL, and his 548k health pool, Guilly would have healed for 10,960HP (which is 2% of 548k)? My rank 1 6* Guilly has about 22.4k HP and I certainly am not healing up for 10kHP!
@Saiyan would I be correct in concluding that by defeating WS in RoL, and his 548k health pool, Guilly would have healed for 10,960HP (which is 2% of 548k)? My rank 1 6* Guilly has about 22.4k HP and I certainly am not healing up for 10kHP!
You're correct on the almost 11k regen from WS.
You sure it's bugged? chip damage in fights can easily cover that up. Plus the suicide masteries will cut her regen by 30% as well if you have those on and well recoil will completely outdo her regen.
They should have made it at least 4-5% and her regen would be perfectly fine.
@Saiyan would I be correct in concluding that by defeating WS in RoL, and his 548k health pool, Guilly would have healed for 10,960HP (which is 2% of 548k)? My rank 1 6* Guilly has about 22.4k HP and I certainly am not healing up for 10kHP!
You're correct on the almost 11k regen from WS.
You sure it's bugged? chip damage in fights can easily cover that up. Plus the suicide masteries will cut her regen by 30% as well if you have those on and well recoil will completely outdo her regen.
They should have made it at least 4-5% and her regen would be perfectly fine.
Honestly they could have just *not touched* her regen and it still would have been fine by me and certainly better than what we got.
@Saiyan would I be correct in concluding that by defeating WS in RoL, and his 548k health pool, Guilly would have healed for 10,960HP (which is 2% of 548k)? My rank 1 6* Guilly has about 22.4k HP and I certainly am not healing up for 10kHP!
You're correct on the almost 11k regen from WS.
You sure it's bugged? chip damage in fights can easily cover that up. Plus the suicide masteries will cut her regen by 30% as well if you have those on and well recoil will completely outdo her regen.
They should have made it at least 4-5% and her regen would be perfectly fine.
Honestly they could have just *not touched* her regen and it still would have been fine by me and certainly better than what we got.
I agree. Her regen was actually fine and at higher sigs was quite good when it worked. Yes it's only 10% chance but at least back then she could go from 10% health to 100% in longer fights. Unless it's Grandmaster or Gwenmaster, this new Guilly can't do that. More so needing to land many heavy attacks mean more parry which is chip damage.
Pre-buff pros: Suicide friendly Mystic (worked well with her kit actually - gaining souls, etc) Straight forward playstyle Nice bleed damage from basic attacks (no specials required for damage output, only required for heal reversal/utility) Strong sp3 Strong Life Steal
Cons: no buff control/damage while decent, could be tuned up closer in line with modern characters
Post-buff pros: Sig ability allows for Rupture debuffs in place of bleed Potential for longer heal reversal, but at the cost of damage?
That's it, I'm struggling to come up with something further.
Cons: Now relies on heavy spam and special spam for decent damage/more complicated, less realistic playstyle (a huge hit to Suicide users who were excited about her buff) Basic attack damage has been nerfed Sp3 damage has been nerfed (I understand the degen is nice, but my r2 legitimately did 3.5k damage from the sp3 itself... less damage than landing a single medium attack??) Life Steal has been nerfed (also a hit to Suicide users, and frankly any player at all actually)
Still no buff control...
As it stands, I would prefer the pre-buffed version. If I'm really missing something, please do feel free to educate.
Just to be clear with you guys. Guilly went from a champ who could do INFINITE damage to.. this. Whatever this is.
If you're wondering what I mean. An example of this is if the enemy had 1 billion health, 50 souls would do 1 billion health in game. If the enemy had 1 trillion health then 50 souls would have done 1 trillion health in damage. If they had literally Infinity health then again, 50 souls was enongh to do well... infinity damage to them in a single blow.
Now... she does some degen damage that's just...ok. I'm very sad about that.
@Saiyan you may be right and I maybe be wrong. the regen happens so slowly that it's hard to perceive. I don't have suicides on at the moment so no conflict there. My recovery mastery is maxed, so I should be getting an extra 15% of that 2%, for an effective regen of 2.3% of damage taken by the opponent but, like I said, it just seems really slow.
The purgatory synergy with critical bleeds is amazing for her, 4k ticks on my r3. Brought her into AQ running suicides, just map 5 but they drop fast simply because the smaller health pool she'll knock off 5% quicker and race through ramping up her souls for +2k-3k damage boost
The purgatory synergy with critical bleeds is amazing for her, 4k ticks on my r3. Brought her into AQ running suicides, just map 5 but they drop fast simply because the smaller health pool she'll knock off 5% quicker and race through ramping up her souls for +2k-3k damage boost
Mine is still r2 (ranked before buff was announced as she's part of MS synergy and I like(ed) her). Though, I'm thinking with the Purgatory synergy.. I'd like her in AQ pre-buff better probably tbh. Basic attacks and regen would be stronger and not reliant on heavy or special spam. Pre-buff version wouldn't be viable on bleed immune is all. Which may matter more in map 5 than it does map 7 for example.
@Saiyan would I be correct in concluding that by defeating WS in RoL, and his 548k health pool, Guilly would have healed for 10,960HP (which is 2% of 548k)? My rank 1 6* Guilly has about 22.4k HP and I certainly am not healing up for 10kHP!
You're correct on the almost 11k regen from WS.
You sure it's bugged? chip damage in fights can easily cover that up. Plus the suicide masteries will cut her regen by 30% as well if you have those on and well recoil will completely outdo her regen.
They should have made it at least 4-5% and her regen would be perfectly fine.
Honestly they could have just *not touched* her regen and it still would have been fine by me and certainly better than what we got.
Actually, they could not have done that. OG Guilly used to deal about 2/3rds of her damage by striking, which is the only damage her old life steal would work on. The rest came from bleeds. OG Guilly could thus basically health steal about 66% of the enemy health, plus or minus (if the target didn't bleed, then even more). But New Guilly deals a substantially higher ratio of damage via DoT which her old life steal would not work on. My best guestimate is that G2.0 is dealing about 33% of her damage with strikes and 2/3rds with bleeds in a typical fight (although this depends on how you play her). Just that shift alone would have nerfed her healing in half, just because G2.0 shifts damage away from things that traditional life steal works on.
If they had made the mechanical change to heal on all damage and kept the percentage at least 4% (twice what it is now) the heal would roughly tie OG Guillotine at max sig (it gets complicated because OG Guilly could improve the heal even further with more souls). As this is supposed to be a buff, and as her original heal was nothing spectacular, there was plenty of room to increase it further from there; a tie is a meaningless change to a champion that needs an update.
Let's put some numbers into perspective. In a post above someone mentioned that if you're fighting RoL WS with his ~548k health pool then Guilly 2.0 should heal for about 10960 (assuming you aren't running liquid courage which would lower the heal). By my estimates, OG Guilly would have healed, on average, at least about 20194 health at max sig (could be higher depending on how many souls you average: I'm assuming you don't have any throughout the fight). Yes, the heal is random, but in a long fight like this the heal is more likely to get closer to the average, and it is very unlikely a player would see only half the statistical average heal.
Let's compare to a conceptually similar champion: X-23. A high bleed champion with what most would consider a moderate strength heal. Because X-23's heal is mechanically different we can't compare apples to apples, but we can look at a conservative estimate. Suppose a 5/65 X-23 takes on WS and manages to defeat him in 100 hits. Her average heal would then be about 100 * 0.15 * 2185 = 32775. Once again, this is an average value, but the odds of seeing G2.0 levels of heal are pretty low.
Let's try one more comparison point. Rogue is also a champion with what most consider to be a moderate heal in her SP1. A 5/65 Rogue heals for about 1365 health per SP1 - assuming no critical heals. To surpass Guilly 2.0's healing in a fight with WS's health bar Rogue would need to land about eight SP1 attacks. Again, assuming we discount crits. How hard is that to do in a fight that long? And unlike OG Guilly or X-23, these are guaranteed heals, just as predictable as Guilly 2.0 healing, albeit with a different mechanic.
Comments
You sure it's bugged? chip damage in fights can easily cover that up. Plus the suicide masteries will cut her regen by 30% as well if you have those on and well recoil will completely outdo her regen.
They should have made it at least 4-5% and her regen would be perfectly fine.
Pre-buff pros:
Suicide friendly Mystic (worked well with her kit actually - gaining souls, etc)
Straight forward playstyle
Nice bleed damage from basic attacks (no specials required for damage output, only required for heal reversal/utility)
Strong sp3
Strong Life Steal
Cons: no buff control/damage while decent, could be tuned up closer in line with modern characters
Post-buff pros:
Sig ability allows for Rupture debuffs in place of bleed
Potential for longer heal reversal, but at the cost of damage?
That's it, I'm struggling to come up with something further.
Cons:
Now relies on heavy spam and special spam for decent damage/more complicated, less realistic playstyle (a huge hit to Suicide users who were excited about her buff)
Basic attack damage has been nerfed
Sp3 damage has been nerfed (I understand the degen is nice, but my r2 legitimately did 3.5k damage from the sp3 itself... less damage than landing a single medium attack??)
Life Steal has been nerfed (also a hit to Suicide users, and frankly any player at all actually)
Still no buff control...
As it stands, I would prefer the pre-buffed version. If I'm really missing something, please do feel free to educate.
If you're wondering what I mean. An example of this is if the enemy had 1 billion health, 50 souls would do 1 billion health in game. If the enemy had 1 trillion health then 50 souls would have done 1 trillion health in damage. If they had literally Infinity health then again, 50 souls was enongh to do well... infinity damage to them in a single blow.
Now... she does some degen damage that's just...ok. I'm very sad about that.
Brought her into AQ running suicides, just map 5 but they drop fast simply because the smaller health pool she'll knock off 5% quicker and race through ramping up her souls for +2k-3k damage boost
If they had made the mechanical change to heal on all damage and kept the percentage at least 4% (twice what it is now) the heal would roughly tie OG Guillotine at max sig (it gets complicated because OG Guilly could improve the heal even further with more souls). As this is supposed to be a buff, and as her original heal was nothing spectacular, there was plenty of room to increase it further from there; a tie is a meaningless change to a champion that needs an update.
Let's put some numbers into perspective. In a post above someone mentioned that if you're fighting RoL WS with his ~548k health pool then Guilly 2.0 should heal for about 10960 (assuming you aren't running liquid courage which would lower the heal). By my estimates, OG Guilly would have healed, on average, at least about 20194 health at max sig (could be higher depending on how many souls you average: I'm assuming you don't have any throughout the fight). Yes, the heal is random, but in a long fight like this the heal is more likely to get closer to the average, and it is very unlikely a player would see only half the statistical average heal.
Let's compare to a conceptually similar champion: X-23. A high bleed champion with what most would consider a moderate strength heal. Because X-23's heal is mechanically different we can't compare apples to apples, but we can look at a conservative estimate. Suppose a 5/65 X-23 takes on WS and manages to defeat him in 100 hits. Her average heal would then be about 100 * 0.15 * 2185 = 32775. Once again, this is an average value, but the odds of seeing G2.0 levels of heal are pretty low.
Let's try one more comparison point. Rogue is also a champion with what most consider to be a moderate heal in her SP1. A 5/65 Rogue heals for about 1365 health per SP1 - assuming no critical heals. To surpass Guilly 2.0's healing in a fight with WS's health bar Rogue would need to land about eight SP1 attacks. Again, assuming we discount crits. How hard is that to do in a fight that long? And unlike OG Guilly or X-23, these are guaranteed heals, just as predictable as Guilly 2.0 healing, albeit with a different mechanic.
76 hits without synergy, before it needs multiple synergies. Only the regeneration that was nerf.