Agreed. I think there is one fundamentally wrong idea with tag based design: Tags are spread across various classes, and each class is different (meaning cosmics have buffs, techs have powercontrol+healblock etc). It is a bad idea to mix requiring certain mechanic and certain tag.
Look at the very first quest: #A-Force, #F4 and #New Avengers who have BUFFS (or heal reversal/block). For Cavs, it can be hard to even own a champ with these tags and the need of buffs/consistent healblock eliminates many of the already limited options.
So IMO, require mechanics (buffs, debuffs etc) from classes. Tags belong to a very diverse groups of champs, so rather than looking for a common ability, base the difficulty on ownership of champs with the given tag. That is difficult enough, if you insist on keeping this set of nodes.
VERY important point. If the champions with the Tags don’t have the utility to deal with the Node then they should have added the damn utility as the Node bonus. I’m at a loss for words.
They did do that though? All avengers power drain, New Avengers all get buffs Symbiotes get evade That last one has nullify
Granted some are not enough but it is there
Right, and they *kind* of did that. But you left out the most important one: the quest with the Mercs. Life is good until you’re facing a jacked up Hyperion with Domino.
Oh yeah forgot about the mercs one. You *can* bleed with reparries but as mentioned that was not enough. But it is there nonetheless
Agreed. I think there is one fundamentally wrong idea with tag based design: Tags are spread across various classes, and each class is different (meaning cosmics have buffs, techs have powercontrol+healblock etc). It is a bad idea to mix requiring certain mechanic and certain tag.
Look at the very first quest: #A-Force, #F4 and #New Avengers who have BUFFS (or heal reversal/block). For Cavs, it can be hard to even own a champ with these tags and the need of buffs/consistent healblock eliminates many of the already limited options.
So IMO, require mechanics (buffs, debuffs etc) from classes. Tags belong to a very diverse groups of champs, so rather than looking for a common ability, base the difficulty on ownership of champs with the given tag. That is difficult enough, if you insist on keeping this set of nodes.
VERY important point. If the champions with the Tags don’t have the utility to deal with the Node then they should have added the damn utility as the Node bonus. I’m at a loss for words.
Yeah I’m confused here and have to agree with @AverageDesi
Symbiote/spider verse
Champions has to be able to evade unblockable hits —> all champions in the tag gets the ability to evade unblockable hits by knocking the opponent down
Defenders/thunderbolts
Champions have to be able to apply debuffs —> ending combo with different attack applies a debuff
Mercs/guardians
Apply bleed to stop unstoppable —> stunning them applied a passive bleed (for all the shortcomings of this global, it still gives them the ability to do it)
Dimensional beings
Requires nullify —> all champions get the ability that dodging specials nullifies armour up buffs
Avengers
Needs buffs —> punishing specials or interrupting attacks gives you buffs
No selection of tags has enough in common to have a global that will only require specific utility, so they have each champion in the tag the specific utility to deal with it. I see no issue in this one aspect of the new global
I only have 3 points to make:
Symbiote / Spider-Verse: 0.9 seconds Stun was a smidge too short. Short enough to make sure you get clipped if you don’t charge the Heavy instantaneously.
Mercs / Guardians was a disaster, man. There’s no excusing this one. They could have given them passive AAR or DAAR instead of a useless instant Bleed. What do I need them to bleed the opponent for anyway? Domino, Masacre, Goldpool, Crit Monkey and others all have Bleed in their base kit. I didn’t include Guardians because lol, buff them first Kabam. All the more reason for passive AAR or DAAR.
Avengers: I felt this was bugged. I did not notice the Power Drain at all. I don’t think this had much impact even if it worked right.
The thing is, the Class based Nodes worked for champs much more effectively than Tag based Nodes. And that’s the point that needs to be driven home.
Requirements are getting more specific, so these half-baked aren’t going to cut it.
The spider one personally was likable. It got boring after a bit but it had a challenge that was fair and just . It was skill based and didn't require any specific champion
The avnegers one was slightly RNG dependent and affected by AAR
Agreed. I think there is one fundamentally wrong idea with tag based design: Tags are spread across various classes, and each class is different (meaning cosmics have buffs, techs have powercontrol+healblock etc). It is a bad idea to mix requiring certain mechanic and certain tag.
Look at the very first quest: #A-Force, #F4 and #New Avengers who have BUFFS (or heal reversal/block). For Cavs, it can be hard to even own a champ with these tags and the need of buffs/consistent healblock eliminates many of the already limited options.
So IMO, require mechanics (buffs, debuffs etc) from classes. Tags belong to a very diverse groups of champs, so rather than looking for a common ability, base the difficulty on ownership of champs with the given tag. That is difficult enough, if you insist on keeping this set of nodes.
VERY important point. If the champions with the Tags don’t have the utility to deal with the Node then they should have added the damn utility as the Node bonus. I’m at a loss for words.
Yeah I’m confused here and have to agree with @AverageDesi
Symbiote/spider verse
Champions has to be able to evade unblockable hits —> all champions in the tag gets the ability to evade unblockable hits by knocking the opponent down
Defenders/thunderbolts
Champions have to be able to apply debuffs —> ending combo with different attack applies a debuff
Mercs/guardians
Apply bleed to stop unstoppable —> stunning them applied a passive bleed (for all the shortcomings of this global, it still gives them the ability to do it)
Dimensional beings
Requires nullify —> all champions get the ability that dodging specials nullifies armour up buffs
Avengers
Needs buffs —> punishing specials or interrupting attacks gives you buffs
No selection of tags has enough in common to have a global that will only require specific utility, so they have each champion in the tag the specific utility to deal with it. I see no issue in this one aspect of the new global
I only have 3 points to make:
Symbiote / Spider-Verse: 0.9 seconds Stun was a smidge too short. Short enough to make sure you get clipped if you don’t charge the Heavy instantaneously.
Mercs / Guardians was a disaster, man. There’s no excusing this one. They could have given them passive AAR or DAAR instead of a useless instant Bleed. What do I need them to bleed the opponent for anyway? Domino, Masacre, Goldpool, Crit Monkey and others all have Bleed in their base kit. I didn’t include Guardians because lol, buff them first Kabam. All the more reason for passive AAR or DAAR.
Avengers: I felt this was bugged. I did not notice the Power Drain at all. I don’t think this had much impact even if it worked right.
The thing is, the Class based Nodes worked for champs much more effectively than Tag based Nodes. And that’s the point that needs to be driven home.
Requirements are getting more specific, so these half-baked aren’t going to cut it.
No I’m not disagreeing with any of that, you saw my initial post on it. What I’m disagreeing with is the claim that they don’t have the utility to deal with it, when they’ve been given it. After tweaking it, that utility will be much more usable, but it is there. It’s usable now, I’ve been using it and it works. But not always the best that it can, or should.
Just adding random text here because I need the following comment to pass the filter:
Here is a simple question to answer: How is Drax or Domino supposed to take on a Hyperion that is Stun Immune, Unstoppable, has Power Gain in his base kit, and is hell bent on pulverizing you in the corner until he reaches 3 bars of Power? That’s not giving the right utility. That was dumb on the design front. If I want to deal with this fight, give me AAR or Slow. I need a way to take control of the fight with the given Tags.
This was always an issue with cav EQ. You had fights like electro or Hyperion or aarkus whose counter did not reside in the class of that quest. In thise times I would just bring in a normal counter.
As for this Hyperion, just use a mystic. The biggest problem in the fight is unstoppable which is a buff
Agreed. I think there is one fundamentally wrong idea with tag based design: Tags are spread across various classes, and each class is different (meaning cosmics have buffs, techs have powercontrol+healblock etc). It is a bad idea to mix requiring certain mechanic and certain tag.
Look at the very first quest: #A-Force, #F4 and #New Avengers who have BUFFS (or heal reversal/block). For Cavs, it can be hard to even own a champ with these tags and the need of buffs/consistent healblock eliminates many of the already limited options.
So IMO, require mechanics (buffs, debuffs etc) from classes. Tags belong to a very diverse groups of champs, so rather than looking for a common ability, base the difficulty on ownership of champs with the given tag. That is difficult enough, if you insist on keeping this set of nodes.
VERY important point. If the champions with the Tags don’t have the utility to deal with the Node then they should have added the damn utility as the Node bonus. I’m at a loss for words.
Yeah I’m confused here and have to agree with @AverageDesi
Symbiote/spider verse
Champions has to be able to evade unblockable hits —> all champions in the tag gets the ability to evade unblockable hits by knocking the opponent down
Defenders/thunderbolts
Champions have to be able to apply debuffs —> ending combo with different attack applies a debuff
Mercs/guardians
Apply bleed to stop unstoppable —> stunning them applied a passive bleed (for all the shortcomings of this global, it still gives them the ability to do it)
Dimensional beings
Requires nullify —> all champions get the ability that dodging specials nullifies armour up buffs
Avengers
Needs buffs —> punishing specials or interrupting attacks gives you buffs
No selection of tags has enough in common to have a global that will only require specific utility, so they have each champion in the tag the specific utility to deal with it. I see no issue in this one aspect of the new global
I only have 3 points to make:
Symbiote / Spider-Verse: 0.9 seconds Stun was a smidge too short. Short enough to make sure you get clipped if you don’t charge the Heavy instantaneously.
Mercs / Guardians was a disaster, man. There’s no excusing this one. They could have given them passive AAR or DAAR instead of a useless instant Bleed. What do I need them to bleed the opponent for anyway? Domino, Masacre, Goldpool, Crit Monkey and others all have Bleed in their base kit. I didn’t include Guardians because lol, buff them first Kabam. All the more reason for passive AAR or DAAR.
Avengers: I felt this was bugged. I did not notice the Power Drain at all. I don’t think this had much impact even if it worked right.
The thing is, the Class based Nodes worked for champs much more effectively than Tag based Nodes. And that’s the point that needs to be driven home.
Requirements are getting more specific, so these half-baked aren’t going to cut it.
No I’m not disagreeing with any of that, you saw my initial post on it. What I’m disagreeing with is the claim that they don’t have the utility to deal with it, when they’ve been given it. After tweaking it, that utility will be much more usable, but it is there. It’s usable now, I’ve been using it and it works. But not always the best that it can, or should.
Just adding random text here because I need the following comment to pass the filter:
Here is a simple question to answer: How is Drax or Domino supposed to take on a Hyperion that is Stun Immune, Unstoppable, has Power Gain in his base kit, and is hell bent on pulverizing you in the corner until he reaches 3 bars of Power? That’s not giving the right utility. That was dumb on the design front. If I want to deal with this fight, give me AAR or Slow. I need a way to take control of the fight with the given Tags.
This was always an issue with cav EQ. You had fights like electro or Hyperion or aarkus whose counter did not reside in the class of that quest. In thise times I would just bring in a normal counter.
As for this Hyperion, just use a mystic. The biggest problem in the fight is unstoppable which is a buff
I took it down with Fury. I can use Doom and turn the fight into a piece of cake, but then what’s the point. I was looking forward to using my Mercs.
For the merc one, the only one I have that works well for the nodes is Weapon X which is terrible since he's an exclusive champ that the majority of people won't ever get.
For the merc one, the only one I have that works well for the nodes is Weapon X which is terrible since he's an exclusive champ that the majority of people won't ever get.
Domino worked for me ... but not like i had much of a choice to start with lol
For the merc one, the only one I have that works well for the nodes is Weapon X which is terrible since he's an exclusive champ that the majority of people won't ever get.
Domino worked for me ... but not like i had much of a choice to start with lol
Like another poster said: if it isn't broken, don't mess with it. Just put Cavalier back to class based and use tags for a new and more challenging TB eq.
I think the tags are new and a good way got people to potentially think outside the bun, however, these node combos gotta stop
I'm about sick of Xzibit-style node design "Yo, I heard you like Unstoppable and Unblockable in your Unstoppable and Unblockable, so I put more Unstoppable and Unblockable in your Unstoppable and Unblockable and then dual Unstoppable and Unblockable in the trunk".
Do you think if it is possible to form a list of champs that suits for particular tags/class/act? I'm wondering it ends up to be less than 10 per tags/class/act, although some maybe argue that you can match with other classes out of the boss fight.
This month’s EQ has been brought to you by the bad news bears. Incorporating champions few people want to use (or have ranked) will discourage people from doing the event. I’m personally not planning on ranking up these tagged champs to complete the EQ that will earn me rank up materials that I’ll need to use on more champs I don’t want to rank. I assume the game plan was to encourage us to rank up lesser used champs, but, as other posters have mentioned, the befuddling combination of nonsense added on each node in most cases works against the tagged champ. Plus, who wants to read all that? Let’s be honest, who even wanted to read all this?
Some things here are fine in a normal, functional environment. For example, the Cage 1.1 fight requires a fair degree of watching his buffs to make sure you don’t wind up hitting into an unstoppable and unblockable opponent.
However, the game isn’t in a normal, functional environment. Getting tagged from across the screen as you glance at the fight or flight timer and check Cage’s armor up buffs is way more likely when there are still significant dex/parry issues.
This line from OP stands out:
“I get that we are your lab mice for testing new things, but the problem is that these are our personal resources that we are using to test your new *expletive*. Our energy refills, our units, our potions, our revives.”
Dr. Zola
This stands out. Let’s keep things the way they have been for months. Fix the problems, then let’s go head first into changes to monthly content.
From my experience so far, too much effort is involved in reading, planning, having the best options, and execution in each and every fight for rewards that are barely worth it.
I believe it's especially true since the rewards have been deemed worth clearing Cav EQ for several months in the past, which, by natural progression, makes them already outdated at this point even without the increase in effort to get them.
For a good amount of people, it's just something to do but the rewards are not actually instrumental for their account progression.
To those with accounts for which the rewards are much more relevant, again, the effort required is too high.
So much mental load from the node combinations and stress with the game issues for rewards that haven't been updated for months. Cost and benefit need to be balanced.
We want to support your decisions, Kabam. Please give us reasons to.
Do you think if it is possible to form a list of champs that suits for particular tags/class/act? I'm wondering it ends up to be less than 10 per tags/class/act, although some maybe argue that you can match with other classes out of the boss fight.
For the merc one, the only one I have that works well for the nodes is Weapon X which is terrible since he's an exclusive champ that the majority of people won't ever get.
Domino worked for me ... but not like i had much of a choice to start with lol
I'd rather not complete it than use Domino
Booo... She's been so good lately with variant and now this
Do you think if it is possible to form a list of champs that suits for particular tags/class/act? I'm wondering it ends up to be less than 10 per tags/class/act, although some maybe argue that you can match with other classes out of the boss fight.
There’s this.
Game team: consider a consulting arrangement with @Cat_Murdock for infographics design and UI advice.
I know there have been bugs for several months and I’m just adding to the chorus, but there really does seem to be something seriously wrong with the game right now. Doing an initial cavalier EQ run and the controls are all over the place. Your character sometimes just stands there despite tapping/swiping like crazy. Parry is often non-existent. How are we supposed to play like this?
I'm to the point as to where I'm saying screw Cav difficulty unless I'm that close to a 6* crystal that I'll just complete the first chapter. Between the bugs/lag issues we've been dealing with for over 6 months and the new tag based cav difficulty it's just not worth it. Especially since they only release solo compensation once a month which barely qualifies as compensation compared to AQ/AW compensation.
Who the hell made this Event quest it's simply unplayable, Iam in 3.1.1 Defender are stun immune going unstoppable,hard knot for attacker and falter. Kabam please also add anything you want to add. You people are making game more unplayable and more you make it unplayable more people will left it. Good job!!! Kudos to make it really bad.
Comments
The avnegers one was slightly RNG dependent and affected by AAR
As for this Hyperion, just use a mystic. The biggest problem in the fight is unstoppable which is a buff
I was looking forward to using my Mercs.
Dr. Zola
So avengers tag and symbiote tag will return Captain America and Venom etc, instead of returning nobody.
I believe it's especially true since the rewards have been deemed worth clearing Cav EQ for several months in the past, which, by natural progression, makes them already outdated at this point even without the increase in effort to get them.
For a good amount of people, it's just something to do but the rewards are not actually instrumental for their account progression.
To those with accounts for which the rewards are much more relevant, again, the effort required is too high.
So much mental load from the node combinations and stress with the game issues for rewards that haven't been updated for months. Cost and benefit need to be balanced.
We want to support your decisions, Kabam. Please give us reasons to.
Dr. Zola