And no, I don’t mean “implement a mechanism for me to refresh energy, at a cost of grind time or cash.”
I understand the game needs monetization. What I am saying is that if special/daily/monthly offers for crystals or grinding for characters in Arena, plus grind time or spending for gold and other resource materials to rank up characters — all with no guarantee that you are going to get any specific character that you want at any given moment — aren’t enough so actually competing with people is going to be limited by energy…wow.
That’s just not something that I would find appealing
Wait so we still can't fight an actual person. After watching Seatin's video its expensive and we are still fighting an AI. Just wanna have a mode where I can actually 1v1 my friend. And for it to not be dependant on our rosters, maybe same level champions. A bit off topic but still, even Disney Infinity 3.0 did battlegrounds better than MCOC.
The parry mastery means actual PVP will never come to MCOC so there’s no point in hoping for it. It would literally be both players waiting for the other to make the first move.
Let me start saying the game mode looks super fun and this could attract new players and retain a lot and players that were really losing the love for the game.
I believe though that it shouldn't have any energy cost or any refresh option with runes. The game requires a big roster, and changing the nodes every season will change the meta, and players will be looking into expanding and acquiring those fancy toys, which is your core business.
This could be perfect playground for us to play with our toys, but it you make it so hard to get in, or having us to choose between normal content, Alliance content, etc.. It seems stupid to have to grind more in the arena to get the runes to buy refills and refresh Champs. Time is another limitation. In my honest opinion, you would want us to have that super cool and amazing playground and we will be really looking into spending in our roster, which is what this game is about. Otherwise it may have a much moderate success.
NGL: My interest in this will be near-zero if there’s an Energy cost to simply play.
Just being honest
There is literally an energy requirement for every game mode except arena where there is champion cooldown. Limiters like energy requirement or cooldowns exist in the majority of mobile games from candy crush to mcoc. Limiters are in place not as a cash grab but to encourage players to explore other game modes.
Most people feel like the 30 energy requirement is excessive, which it is considering no other mode even comes close to double digits. To add in champion cooldown on top of an energy requirement is just stupid.
Let me start saying the game mode looks super fun and this could attract new players and retain a lot and players that were really losing the love for the game.
I believe though that it shouldn't have any energy cost or any refresh option with runes. The game requires a big roster, and changing the nodes every season will change the meta, and players will be looking into expanding and acquiring those fancy toys, which is your core business.
This could be perfect playground for us to play with our toys, but it you make it so hard to get in, or having us to choose between normal content, Alliance content, etc.. It seems stupid to have to grind more in the arena to get the runes to buy refills and refresh Champs. Time is another limitation. In my honest opinion, you would want us to have that super cool and amazing playground and we will be really looking into spending in our roster, which is what this game is about. Otherwise it may have a much moderate success.
The rewards will determine the viability and success of this game mode. History has shown us that no matter the cost if players deem the rewards worth they will pay the cost.
You already have to balance/manage your time playing the game in order to expand your roster. This mode actually encourages me to want to expand my roster more. After watching several of the content creators I’m already looking at what champs I want to rank up or acquire and what strategies I want to employ. I actually haven’t been this excited about any content or anything else in the game since the Abyss was first released.
Energy requirement isn’t the issue having an energy requirement and a champ cooldown is the problem.
Having no energy cost or cooldowns just incentivizes people to grind that mode all day long.
Personally, I don’t think the cooldowns are a bad thing, the energy costs though, a little excessive. However, I gotta say that the “costs” should be applied to ranked matches only, and not extend to practice matches with friends/alliance mates as well.
NGL: My interest in this will be near-zero if there’s an Energy cost to simply play.
Just being honest
There is literally an energy requirement for every game mode except arena where there is champion cooldown. Limiters like energy requirement or cooldowns exist in the majority of mobile games from candy crush to mcoc. Limiters are in place not as a cash grab but to encourage players to explore other game modes.
Most people feel like the 30 energy requirement is excessive, which it is considering no other mode even comes close to double digits. To add in champion cooldown on top of an energy requirement is just stupid.
Exactly — I meant it how I said it. I didn’t say I minded or would have less interest in a cooldown. That makes total sense. No issues whatsoever with that.
The problem with Energy cost is, as you noted, you need to use it elsewhere. Even more so, with this mode coming in. Gonna need to grind the Proving Grounds and other content, stuff like that, for every scrap of gold/iso/catalysts that can be found, because we probably should want as wide a roster as possible if you want to try to be in the highest tiers.
I don’t mind that. I don’t mind grinding for what I need, if I want to play/compete. Don’t mind buying an offer, here and there.
Don’t want to be limited by Energy cost for a mode where cooldown should be sufficient for character limitations and we have to do a lot to acquire and rank up characters in order to be competitive — if I put in the work to be competitive, I want to be able to play with few restrictions. Not none, but few
It looks interesting, but have the same concerns that have already been voiced.
I can tell you now that I will never touch the mode if it costs energy to play. Even the champion refresh is a huge turn off. What needs to be limited is the rewards available per day/week/month. In terms of the leaderboard etc., just let people play 24/7 if they want. Let them have some badge of honor by being high on the leaderboard, but let people play and be "competitive" without a cost.
The mode is pre-monetized (i.e., champion acquisition and rank up resources). You will clearly also monetize relics to make people have better teams. Don't squeeze every penny possible out of this game mode or it will be about as useful as Incursions.
It looks interesting, but have the same concerns that have already been voiced.
I can tell you now that I will never touch the mode if it costs energy to play. Even the champion refresh is a huge turn off. What needs to be limited is the rewards available per day/week/month. In terms of the leaderboard etc., just let people play 24/7 if they want. Let them have some badge of honor by being high on the leaderboard, but let people play and be "competitive" without a cost.
The mode is pre-monetized (i.e., champion acquisition and rank up resources). You will clearly also monetize relics to make people have better teams. Don't squeeze every penny possible out of this game mode or it will be about as useful as Incursions.
Sometimes, I think it’s way too easy to just gloss over just how much it takes to have a wide roster.
I give credit where it’s due: Kabam has made getting good amounts of gold more possible, if you’re willing to grind events. It used to be you basically had to grind Arena to get larger amounts. But that has changed, and again, I give Kabam credit where it’s due.
But at the same time, you still need a ton of it. Still need catalysts and ISO and the characters themselves. Sometimes you pretty much have to get the characters awakened and at a high sit.
I know everyone knows this.
But that’s kind of my point: The requirements to have a larger roster with ranked-up kits haven’t changed. There aren’t fewer of them, and the amounts haven’t decreased.
I would have drastically less interest, if we’re doing all that still — and we will — if the game mode is clocking in at 30 Energy plus cooldowns
P2W unfortunately cause you have to select a roaster of 30 champs and if you want to win they have to be high
90-95% of all free to play players of mobile games don't spend. There's no reason to believe MCOC is radically different from the average, which means between 90% and 95% of the competition hasn't spent a dime. While it is true that it is unlikely a free to play player could achieve the number one spot, there's no reason to believe free to play players can't be competitive, as most of the competition is going to be free to play.
It looks interesting, but have the same concerns that have already been voiced.
I can tell you now that I will never touch the mode if it costs energy to play. Even the champion refresh is a huge turn off. What needs to be limited is the rewards available per day/week/month. In terms of the leaderboard etc., just let people play 24/7 if they want. Let them have some badge of honor by being high on the leaderboard, but let people play and be "competitive" without a cost.
I'll probably play it either way, but I also believe it would be better if the rewards were throttled rather than the entrance costs. I think in general that is achievable.
I suspect one thing the devs might be worried about is the idea of grinding ratings on the leaderboard. In other words, if there's a reward for the top rank spot, a player could attempt to drive their rating to the top by doing as many matches as possible. But I don't see how that strategy is viable, because losses would hurt rating. It isn't enough to grind matches, you also have to win them, and the higher you go, the worse the penalty becomes for losing (that's how ELO works).
You could even argue that zero entry costs could help reduce the viability of grinding for rating, because the more players are playing, the harder it is to engineer matches. If players are playing infrequently, it is possible to try to engineer easier match ups. Someone who lives in a time zone radically different from that of the strongest players could have an advantage by avoiding the hardest competition. You could learn when the toughest players are looking for matches and avoid those times. The fewer matches people play, the "thinner" the competition becomes. The more matches people play, the higher the density of players playing at any moment in time, and the harder it becomes to attempt match engineering.
Until the mode launches, it is hard to say how many players will play and how often, and what the match consequences will be, but all things being equal I believe it is a strategically bad idea to unnecessarily limit the ability for players to play a mode like this. You could argue thin participation is the single biggest threat to a real time match activity. If players can't find matches, they won't bother to try. Every player that drops out is less ability to find matches. This can create a death spiral not easy to reverse.
It looks interesting, but have the same concerns that have already been voiced.
I can tell you now that I will never touch the mode if it costs energy to play. Even the champion refresh is a huge turn off. What needs to be limited is the rewards available per day/week/month. In terms of the leaderboard etc., just let people play 24/7 if they want. Let them have some badge of honor by being high on the leaderboard, but let people play and be "competitive" without a cost.
I suspect one thing the devs might be worried about is the idea of grinding ratings on the leaderboard. In other words, if there's a reward for the top rank spot, a player could attempt to drive their rating to the top by doing as many matches as possible. But I don't see how that strategy is viable, because losses would hurt rating. It isn't enough to grind matches, you also have to win them, and the higher you go, the worse the penalty becomes for losing (that's how ELO works).
Until the mode launches, it is hard to say how many players will play and how often, and what the match consequences will be, but all things being equal I believe it is a strategically bad idea to unnecessarily limit the ability for players to play a mode like this. You could argue thin participation is the single biggest threat to a real time match activity. If players can't find matches, they won't bother to try. Every player that drops out is less ability to find matches. This can create a death spiral not easy to reverse.
That’s how it was in a few games I have played, most notably Avengers Alliance, which had absolutely devastating Arenas at the highest levels. You could win 15 matches in a row to start the climb, but then you are in the deep end of the pool with your rating.
You weren’t walking out of those matches with long win streaks — it was so competitive at the highest levels, you could barely piece together win streaks at all.
And every single loss was tough, because of how many people were playing. You lose two matches in a row, your rating is dropping and most importantly, your loot was decreasing — I still remember dropping out of the highest tier with less than one minute left in the Arena cycle, because I lost my final match
please remove energy cost and champions cooldown. You can limit it by X amount per day to make it fair and not a grind. Also, increase the time to choose a champion, make it 30 seconds instead of 15.
After looking at some fights between my favorites youtuber, it seems that the times to choose your champion is a bit short !
I hope Kabam will not allow to recharge champion with units and limits the number of fights per day or the new game mode will turn into another pay2win event !
Can we have a Battlegrounds Energy instead of using 30 quest energy? That's quite a lot imo. It could be like 6-7 battlegrounds energy that refreshes every day instead. Would also be nice if it wasn't refillable as that would just further fuel the top spenders to just spend and spend to get more attempts without polishing their actual skills. (This is from a PoV of someone who appreciated that the summoner showdown qualifiers 2021 had a 70 limit instead of 2020 having unlimited attempts)
Building on the suggestion of others in capping the entries instead of having to using energy…I think it makes more sense to do a cap weekly instead of daily. There are already things we need to login and play daily, and adding Battlegrounds to it would make it feel like a grind. Daily tasks get old fast and I’d hate for a new, exciting game mode to wear everyone down quickly. But if you make the entries capped per week then everyone can play their matches when they have time. Instead of allowing 3 or 4 “ranked” entries per day just make it 20 or 25 for the week.
Can we have a Battlegrounds Energy instead of using 30 quest energy? That's quite a lot imo. It could be like 6-7 battlegrounds energy that refreshes every day instead. Would also be nice if it wasn't refillable as that would just further fuel the top spenders to just spend and spend to get more attempts without polishing their actual skills. (This is from a PoV of someone who appreciated that the summoner showdown qualifiers 2021 had a 70 limit instead of 2020 having unlimited attempts)
If the player rating in Battlegrounds works like war rating, I guess it’s pretty alright. The more matches someone gets, the more likely they’ll stay at their equilibrium rating.
Really "love" that the content creators are already gambling on the game mode in the Beta Servers. I'm sure that's not going to go badly down the road if they allow you to challenge "friends".
Really "love" that the content creators are already gambling on the game mode in the Beta Servers. I'm sure that's not going to go badly down the road if they allow you to challenge "friends".
Really "love" that the content creators are already gambling on the game mode in the Beta Servers. I'm sure that's not going to go badly down the road if they allow you to challenge "friends".
Challenging a friend in order to train would not be bad as long as that doesn't count in the Battlegrounds score. Otherwise you will see plenty of main account challenge their second account and make sure to get all the points to be on top score !!!
I maintain that limiting the number of fight per day/week without recharging with units would go in the direction of Carina to find out which summoner is the best (and not which one has the most of units)
I suppose we will see some "Battlegrounds championship" each month, like AW season, in which the bests summoners will earn some juicy rewards ?
It's a strange feeling, but I can't be bothered about this. It doesn't look particular enjoying, it looks a lot like arena with a twist. And I hate arena.
I watched few videos and I have few suggestions: 1. 30 energy seems like A LOT. I don't think you need to let the player choose if to use his energy on quests or battle ground... There is a lot of contests to complete and in my opinion the battleground should have it's own counter\limit... similar to the way 5 daily duels works but without the option to by more. maybe even tie the number of rounds you can fight to the progression level or the rank of the player (ex: throne breaker = 4 daily attempts, or level 70: 4 daily attempts) 2. I don't know the rewards yet but maybe have a practice mode that I can challenge a friend or ally I choose (without rewards or spending any credit\energy or have a cooldown) 3. Unlike the very top spenders, most players have limited roster as it is so I don't think a cooldown is necessary. It will just increase the gap between top spenders and others more than it already is. 4. I understand the reason behind the timer of each step (to ban champs and lock in selections) but it feels too short especially when you are fighting someone with big roster and newer champs.
Comments
Just being honest
I understand the game needs monetization. What I am saying is that if special/daily/monthly offers for crystals or grinding for characters in Arena, plus grind time or spending for gold and other resource materials to rank up characters — all with no guarantee that you are going to get any specific character that you want at any given moment — aren’t enough so actually competing with people is going to be limited by energy…wow.
That’s just not something that I would find appealing
I believe though that it shouldn't have any energy cost or any refresh option with runes. The game requires a big roster, and changing the nodes every season will change the meta, and players will be looking into expanding and acquiring those fancy toys, which is your core business.
This could be perfect playground for us to play with our toys, but it you make it so hard to get in, or having us to choose between normal content, Alliance content, etc.. It seems stupid to have to grind more in the arena to get the runes to buy refills and refresh Champs. Time is another limitation. In my honest opinion, you would want us to have that super cool and amazing playground and we will be really looking into spending in our roster, which is what this game is about. Otherwise it may have a much moderate success.
Most people feel like the 30 energy requirement is excessive, which it is considering no other mode even comes close to double digits. To add in champion cooldown on top of an energy requirement is just stupid.
You already have to balance/manage your time playing the game in order to expand your roster. This mode actually encourages me to want to expand my roster more. After watching several of the content creators I’m already looking at what champs I want to rank up or acquire and what strategies I want to employ. I actually haven’t been this excited about any content or anything else in the game since the Abyss was first released.
Energy requirement isn’t the issue having an energy requirement and a champ cooldown is the problem.
Personally, I don’t think the cooldowns are a bad thing, the energy costs though, a little excessive. However, I gotta say that the “costs” should be applied to ranked matches only, and not extend to practice matches with friends/alliance mates as well.
The problem with Energy cost is, as you noted, you need to use it elsewhere. Even more so, with this mode coming in. Gonna need to grind the Proving Grounds and other content, stuff like that, for every scrap of gold/iso/catalysts that can be found, because we probably should want as wide a roster as possible if you want to try to be in the highest tiers.
I don’t mind that. I don’t mind grinding for what I need, if I want to play/compete. Don’t mind buying an offer, here and there.
Don’t want to be limited by Energy cost for a mode where cooldown should be sufficient for character limitations and we have to do a lot to acquire and rank up characters in order to be competitive — if I put in the work to be competitive, I want to be able to play with few restrictions. Not none, but few
I can tell you now that I will never touch the mode if it costs energy to play. Even the champion refresh is a huge turn off. What needs to be limited is the rewards available per day/week/month. In terms of the leaderboard etc., just let people play 24/7 if they want. Let them have some badge of honor by being high on the leaderboard, but let people play and be "competitive" without a cost.
The mode is pre-monetized (i.e., champion acquisition and rank up resources). You will clearly also monetize relics to make people have better teams. Don't squeeze every penny possible out of this game mode or it will be about as useful as Incursions.
I give credit where it’s due: Kabam has made getting good amounts of gold more possible, if you’re willing to grind events. It used to be you basically had to grind Arena to get larger amounts. But that has changed, and again, I give Kabam credit where it’s due.
But at the same time, you still need a ton of it. Still need catalysts and ISO and the characters themselves. Sometimes you pretty much have to get the characters awakened and at a high sit.
I know everyone knows this.
But that’s kind of my point: The requirements to have a larger roster with ranked-up kits haven’t changed. There aren’t fewer of them, and the amounts haven’t decreased.
I would have drastically less interest, if we’re doing all that still — and we will — if the game mode is clocking in at 30 Energy plus cooldowns
I suspect one thing the devs might be worried about is the idea of grinding ratings on the leaderboard. In other words, if there's a reward for the top rank spot, a player could attempt to drive their rating to the top by doing as many matches as possible. But I don't see how that strategy is viable, because losses would hurt rating. It isn't enough to grind matches, you also have to win them, and the higher you go, the worse the penalty becomes for losing (that's how ELO works).
You could even argue that zero entry costs could help reduce the viability of grinding for rating, because the more players are playing, the harder it is to engineer matches. If players are playing infrequently, it is possible to try to engineer easier match ups. Someone who lives in a time zone radically different from that of the strongest players could have an advantage by avoiding the hardest competition. You could learn when the toughest players are looking for matches and avoid those times. The fewer matches people play, the "thinner" the competition becomes. The more matches people play, the higher the density of players playing at any moment in time, and the harder it becomes to attempt match engineering.
Until the mode launches, it is hard to say how many players will play and how often, and what the match consequences will be, but all things being equal I believe it is a strategically bad idea to unnecessarily limit the ability for players to play a mode like this. You could argue thin participation is the single biggest threat to a real time match activity. If players can't find matches, they won't bother to try. Every player that drops out is less ability to find matches. This can create a death spiral not easy to reverse.
You weren’t walking out of those matches with long win streaks — it was so competitive at the highest levels, you could barely piece together win streaks at all.
And every single loss was tough, because of how many people were playing. You lose two matches in a row, your rating is dropping and most importantly, your loot was decreasing — I still remember dropping out of the highest tier with less than one minute left in the Arena cycle, because I lost my final match
I hope Kabam will not allow to recharge champion with units and limits the number of fights per day or the new game mode will turn into another pay2win event !
It could be like 6-7 battlegrounds energy that refreshes every day instead. Would also be nice if it wasn't refillable as that would just further fuel the top spenders to just spend and spend to get more attempts without polishing their actual skills. (This is from a PoV of someone who appreciated that the summoner showdown qualifiers 2021 had a 70 limit instead of 2020 having unlimited attempts)
Otherwise you will see plenty of main account challenge their second account and make sure to get all the points to be on top score !!!
I maintain that limiting the number of fight per day/week without recharging with units would go in the direction of Carina to find out which summoner is the best (and not which one has the most of units)
I suppose we will see some "Battlegrounds championship" each month, like AW season, in which the bests summoners will earn some juicy rewards ?
1. 30 energy seems like A LOT. I don't think you need to let the player choose if to use his energy on quests or battle ground... There is a lot of contests to complete and in my opinion the battleground should have it's own counter\limit... similar to the way 5 daily duels works but without the option to by more. maybe even tie the number of rounds you can fight to the progression level or the rank of the player (ex: throne breaker = 4 daily attempts, or level 70: 4 daily attempts)
2. I don't know the rewards yet but maybe have a practice mode that I can challenge a friend or ally I choose (without rewards or spending any credit\energy or have a cooldown)
3. Unlike the very top spenders, most players have limited roster as it is so I don't think a cooldown is necessary. It will just increase the gap between top spenders and others more than it already is.
4. I understand the reason behind the timer of each step (to ban champs and lock in selections) but it feels too short especially when you are fighting someone with big roster and newer champs.