DNA reviews Women's History Month fight designs

DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,935 Guardian
Last year I did a review of the International Women's Day Boss Rush fight designs. It was a continuation of my previous review of the 2019 player contributed Boss Rush, where I was asked to submit a fight design (mine was Invisible Woman). I wasn't sure if I was going to post a review of the IWD/WHM designs, as instead of one single Boss Rush they were scattered into separate paths that were going to be unlocked weekly, but since some people expressed some interest in it, I decided to wait until the last paths were unlocked and review them all at once. As previously, this is not a guide to beating the fights. These are my thoughts on how the fights were designed, what I think works and doesn't work, and my overall thoughts on the difficulty and flavor of the fights from the point of view of a designer - someone who has dabbled in game design and specifically been given the privilege of designing a small piece of content in this game.

There are six fights designed by players and two fights designed by Kabam employees that are not specifically content designers (Kabam Boo and Kabam Sted). For simplicity sake I'm going to refer to these eight fights as the "player designed fights" even though two were not designed by players. These fights are, in the order they were unlocked: America Chavez, Hela, Kitty Pryde, Angela, Medusa, Gwenpool, Quake, and Peni Parker. Each fight is at the end of a separate path, and are "pseudo bosses" for the side quest. They are like minibosses in terms of strength, but Sigil Scarlet Witch is actually the final boss of the side quest map. I'm going to be reviewing the Legendary versions of these fights here.


America Chavez - Designed by Kabam Sted

America Chavez has four noteworthy nodes: Comeback, Long Distance Relationship, Make a Stand, and Right Back At It. Comeback basically boosts AC's attack and energy resistance bonuses from Dimensional energy when she reaches low health. Long Distance Relationship stacks weakness on the player when standing close to AC. Make a Stand is a 90% protection buff unless AC is knocked down, and Right Back At It makes AC debuff immune after being knocked down. The basic design idea seems fairly straight forward: make her super tanky unless you knock her down, but make her stun immune (and dot debuff immune) for a short period of time if you do knock her down. If you try to parry-heavy her and stay close, you'll get a lot of weakness. She'll get a little more dangerous towards the end of the fight.

Curiously, for a relatively easy fight, America Chavez is one of only two of the player designed fights that does not include any of the path buffs from the path she resides upon (Peni Parker is the other designed fight with this property). That seemed odd to me: it suggests that the Kabam oversight for the content felt this fight would be substantially harder than it turned out to be, or I'm vastly underestimating how tough this fight actually is.

In either case, I don't believe this is a difficult fight. If you are unfamiliar with AC's specials it can be a bit tricky, but by in large the nodes are not as dangerous as they might appear on paper. You just need to play reasonably safely and in control with any reasonably good attacker. Attackers that have strong damage over time passives (that won't get cleared by Right Back At It) are helpful, but completely unnecessary. What I think this fight lacks is some form of "gotcha." To make a fight challenging, either the defender or the nodes or some combination of the two has to have a "gotcha" - a circumstance where, if the player doesn't respond correctly or fails to act accordingly they will get into trouble. AC lacks this kind of gotcha, and the nodes don't add one. This makes the fight a somewhat conventional fight. Hit her, don't get hit, and try to knock her down a lot. The fight is very forgiving, and has no pitfalls. If you're looking for a simple fight this is it, but from a design perspective I find this to be a bit of a design flaw.

I'm using a different set of metrics for 2022. Fight complexity is basically how hard I think the fight is to understand. Skill requirements refer to literal twitch skills. Mental load refers to how much stuff a player has to keep track of to manage the fight, which is something I'm finding to be increasingly important in MCOC. Roster requirements is a general measure of how much benefit a player gets from having a more diverse roster for that fight. I don't think any of the fights impose real roster checks on the player: none of the fights *requires* specific champion counters in my opinion.

Fight Complexity: 4
Skill Requirements: 3
Mental Load: 5
Roster Requirements: 3
Overall Grade: C


Hela - Designed by Kabam Boo

Hela has Queen of Hel (regen 20% health before KO), Transducer, Languor, Stung Once Twice Shy, Mystic Ward and the two path buffs Recharge and Invade. This one is a little more interesting. Transducer, Recharge, and Languor basically work together. Transducer causes you to constantly leak power. It would also normally cause you to gain power faster, but Recharge reduces your combat power rate to zero. I believe the net result of the two is your offensive power gain is very small. However, SOTS and Invade both are gotchas. SOTS causes you to gain power sting when you reach a bar of power. This means if you want to use specials you can't just hold block to gain power and then use a special immediately, because you'll take power sting damage. But if you hold the power too long Transducer will leak that power away. And you can't just hold block until you reach SP3 and then hold it long enough for the power sting to expire, because using SP3 will also cause you to take a lot of damage (Languor). So managing power to use specials becomes tricky. Meanwhile, holding block to gain power is dangerous because Invade will cause you to take a ton of damage if you're struck while blocking.

The basic design concept appears to be "juggle the power bar without getting hit." This isn't a super hard fight, you just have to deal with your power bar carefully. The best and safest strategy I've found is to treat your power bar like a timer. Hold block to gain enough of a buffer of power so that when you're attacking transducer doesn't bring you to zero too quickly and have Languor blast your health. Don't use specials and spend that power unless you're certain you won't then drop to zero. A lot of champs work here. However, if you're not accustomed to fighting Invade, this can be a tricky fight to get past, especially as you also have to get past three other fights with Invade. I would say this is a well-designed fight. The nodes all work together very well to construct a reasonable threat that isn't very roster-restrictive. This is more of a skill fight, specifically dealing with Invade. From a design perspective, I like the fact that Invade works with Recharge, Recharge Transducer, Recharge, and Languor work with each other, SOTS works adds additional power control gotchas, and Mystic Ward works with Hela to prevent players from just nullifying her Indestructible too easily.

If the player actually had to keep track of their power bar constantly to deal with Languor and SOTS, I'd probably say this fight approaches mental overload. But it doesn't have Power Shield, you don't have to use specials, and thus some players can try to navigate the power effects to use specials and some players can simplify the fight by forgoing specials and just trying to keep a reasonable power bar buffer. I think this is an important escape hatch for the fight.

Fight Complexity: 7
Skill Requirements: 7
Mental Load: 7
Roster Requirements: 3
Overall Grade: A-


Angela - Designed by Royal

Angela has Aspect of Evolution, Buff Duration, Fight or Flight, Recovery, Transducer, Vigorous Assault, and Mystic Ward. Although it has a boat load of nodes, personally, I think this fight comes down to Fight or Flight and Vigorous Assault. Fight or Flight either gives Angela unstoppable if you're close or gives you unstoppable if you're far away. If you can manage that well and either deal with unstoppable or just keep track and get it yourself, all is well. And if you can fight Angela while unblockable, which she's going to be a lot while she is healing, then all is well. Keeping track of both is not easy. There is some cheesy options here: while Angela has a lot of protection against nullify, she doesn't have protection against buff immunity or buff ability accuracy reduction, so champs like Claire and Tigra can prevent Angela from getting heal buffs. No heal buffs, no unblockable.

The concept is the pretty straight forward unstoppable/unblockable we've seen in other fights, wrapped around a champion that is herself not too difficult to fight. Unblockable plus unstoppable plus regeneration sounds rough, but Angela herself is not a particularly dangerous defender nor does she have any attacks difficult to dodge. So I think this is a reasonable fight. Just enough gotcha to be interesting, a couple of lanes of cheesy options for wide rosters, and otherwise fairly straight forward. I found this one easy cheesy, and still manageable when going dairy free. The biggest challenge might be for players to read through at least six node descriptions and reach Vigorous Assault. If you go in blind without knowing this fight has that node, it'll probably be a bit more challenging.

Fight Complexity: 6
Skill Requirements: 7
Mental Load: 4
Roster Requirements: 4
Overall Grade: B+


Kitty Pryde - Designed by Dragon

Kitty has Counterstrike, Footloose, Buffet, Spite, and Turtling. Now we're talking. In 2021 I jokingly said that Dragon loves Jubilee and really hates you. In 2022, this is no joke: I'm pretty sure Dragon hates us all. If Kitty gains prowess and dashes forward she phases. If you dex, Kitty goes unblockable. If she uses a special attack she goes unstoppable and starts evading you. If you gain buffs she regenerates or gains power, whichever one will mess you up more.

The design concept of this fight is layered complication. Kitty's phasing throws a complication at the player that is unusual. Overuse of dexterity to avoid phase causes Counterstrike to throw a separate complication. Footloose adds an additional complication. Spite, buffet, and turtling make it difficult to play conservatively to deal with the complications. You have to play aggressively and overcome them on demand.

I originally fought this fight with Kitty, just to be funny. As it turns out, Kitty is actually a pretty good option for this fight. Dragon Kitty is just constantly flipping in and out of some state of being un-punchable, but DNA Kitty was similarly playing not-it throughout the entire fight, so I got out of it relatively easy. In preparing this review, I went back into the fight and tried more conventional options. Other options work: G2099 works (she doesn't crit) and Claire works (immune to incinerate and she can nullify) but you have to fight Kitty well, in particular you have to not reflexively dash into her at the wrong time.

I think this fight is not as hard as some people think it is, but its most important challenging element is that it fights against muscle memory. Kitty alone is a fight you have to unlearn how to fight. Kitty with these nodes will just punish you even harder for playing her wrong. But if you play her correctly, the nodes aren't hard to navigate around. The margin for error, however, is lower here than I think it is for any other side quest fight.

If you're trying to make a hard fight, this is one way to go. Take a champion that on its own is a tricky defender, and then wrap it around nodes that punish inaccuracy. I would also say that *if* you are trying to make a challenging fight, take note of the fact that the mental load for this fight is high, but it doesn't require keeping track of a lot of timers and states on screen constantly. You do have to deal with Counterstrike, but that doesn't require constant attention. You can watch the defender and concentrate on the fight for the most part. The fight is hard, but not unreasonably hard. But it does focus more on player skill than roster counters, and on aggressive but precise play. I think this fight lives at the upper limits of what this content was probably intended for, but in my opinion still within the lines.

However, if there's one flaw in the design from my perspective, it is that it doesn't seem to have psychologically rewarding avenues to cut through the difficulty. Basically, it lacks some cheese. Some way to out-think or out-roster the difficulty a bit. You can have a ton of cheese or you can have a touch of cheese, but in my opinion if you're shooting for the top of the difficulty range, at least a tiny bit of cheese is necessary to make it not overly punishing. That's just my opinion though.

Fight Complexity: 7
Skill Requirements: 9
Mental Load: 10
Roster Requirements: 6
Overall Grade: AMF

Comments

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  • GrassKnucklesGrassKnuckles Member Posts: 1,949 ★★★★★
    The Quake boss absolutely wrecked me. Only one that took more than 2 solo attempts which took 6
  • PikoluPikolu Member, Guardian Posts: 8,059 Guardian
    I found the quake boss and the peni bosses the easiest surprisingly. Using my r4 nebula, I took peni down in 6 heavies. Quake was a pretty simple fight with r3 CMM where I just dexed her at the beginning and then intercepted her for mega damage. I nuked her down within 2 intercepts and a sp2. Foresight made that fight a lot easier than it would have been.
  • SquirrelguySquirrelguy Member Posts: 2,654 ★★★★★
    Cool to see some more official feedback! I also totally forgot you had done stuff with past Women’s days. Time flies.
  • solopolosolopolo Member Posts: 890 ★★★
    Difficulty on this quest was lower than I anticipated; at the very least I would've liked slightly larger health pools given that these are meant to be Cavalier level bosses, but the quest was enjoyable nonetheless. And in the process Wasp has shot up to become one of my favorite champions to play alongside Claire.

    I went in with Claire (5r5), CMM (6r3), Wasp (5r4), Fury (5r5) and Quake (5r5). Wasp and Claire doing most of the work, surprisingly I hardly used Cap at all, unlike my Cavalier runs where she does everything on her own.

    Most difficult fight for me was Medusa, because it somehow never crossed my mind to simply wait out the furies. Guess I was just too busy malding at the Polka Dots. Besides that, Chavez, Peni, Quake, and Kitty all fell to the wrath of the Wasp, who ended up being borderline cheese for a great majority of this quest.

    Concept-wise, Hela is easily my favorite of these fights. But again, health pools being so low resulted in the fight being over in a couple of combos into her block, so it ended up being a lot easier than it should've been.

    I'll probably end up doing repeat runs with different picks, just because it's the end of the "month" and I'm bored.


    Also, this post has kinda been sitting in my browser for days and I ended up doing this yesterday

  • SpideyFunkoSpideyFunko Member Posts: 21,960 ★★★★★
    Peni melted with America Chavez
  • GrassKnucklesGrassKnuckles Member Posts: 1,949 ★★★★★

    Peni melted with America Chavez

    Did the same, it was fun
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,675 ★★★★★
    solopolo said:

    Difficulty on this quest was lower than I anticipated; at the very least I would've liked slightly larger health pools given that these are meant to be Cavalier level bosses, but the quest was enjoyable nonetheless. And in the process Wasp has shot up to become one of my favorite champions to play alongside Claire.

    I went in with Claire (5r5), CMM (6r3), Wasp (5r4), Fury (5r5) and Quake (5r5). Wasp and Claire doing most of the work, surprisingly I hardly used Cap at all, unlike my Cavalier runs where she does everything on her own.

    Most difficult fight for me was Medusa, because it somehow never crossed my mind to simply wait out the furies. Guess I was just too busy malding at the Polka Dots. Besides that, Chavez, Peni, Quake, and Kitty all fell to the wrath of the Wasp, who ended up being borderline cheese for a great majority of this quest.

    Concept-wise, Hela is easily my favorite of these fights. But again, health pools being so low resulted in the fight being over in a couple of combos into her block, so it ended up being a lot easier than it should've been.

    I'll probably end up doing repeat runs with different picks, just because it's the end of the "month" and I'm bored.


    Also, this post has kinda been sitting in my browser for days and I ended up doing this yesterday

    I understand that's your view and I respect that, but where was it stated that they would be Cavalier-level?
  • solopolosolopolo Member Posts: 890 ★★★

    solopolo said:

    Difficulty on this quest was lower than I anticipated; at the very least I would've liked slightly larger health pools given that these are meant to be Cavalier level bosses, but the quest was enjoyable nonetheless. And in the process Wasp has shot up to become one of my favorite champions to play alongside Claire.

    I went in with Claire (5r5), CMM (6r3), Wasp (5r4), Fury (5r5) and Quake (5r5). Wasp and Claire doing most of the work, surprisingly I hardly used Cap at all, unlike my Cavalier runs where she does everything on her own.

    Most difficult fight for me was Medusa, because it somehow never crossed my mind to simply wait out the furies. Guess I was just too busy malding at the Polka Dots. Besides that, Chavez, Peni, Quake, and Kitty all fell to the wrath of the Wasp, who ended up being borderline cheese for a great majority of this quest.

    Concept-wise, Hela is easily my favorite of these fights. But again, health pools being so low resulted in the fight being over in a couple of combos into her block, so it ended up being a lot easier than it should've been.

    I'll probably end up doing repeat runs with different picks, just because it's the end of the "month" and I'm bored.


    Also, this post has kinda been sitting in my browser for days and I ended up doing this yesterday

    I understand that's your view and I respect that, but where was it stated that they would be Cavalier-level?
    Legendary difficulty is meant to mirror the Cavalier difficulty, as it always has.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,675 ★★★★★
    solopolo said:

    solopolo said:

    Difficulty on this quest was lower than I anticipated; at the very least I would've liked slightly larger health pools given that these are meant to be Cavalier level bosses, but the quest was enjoyable nonetheless. And in the process Wasp has shot up to become one of my favorite champions to play alongside Claire.

    I went in with Claire (5r5), CMM (6r3), Wasp (5r4), Fury (5r5) and Quake (5r5). Wasp and Claire doing most of the work, surprisingly I hardly used Cap at all, unlike my Cavalier runs where she does everything on her own.

    Most difficult fight for me was Medusa, because it somehow never crossed my mind to simply wait out the furies. Guess I was just too busy malding at the Polka Dots. Besides that, Chavez, Peni, Quake, and Kitty all fell to the wrath of the Wasp, who ended up being borderline cheese for a great majority of this quest.

    Concept-wise, Hela is easily my favorite of these fights. But again, health pools being so low resulted in the fight being over in a couple of combos into her block, so it ended up being a lot easier than it should've been.

    I'll probably end up doing repeat runs with different picks, just because it's the end of the "month" and I'm bored.


    Also, this post has kinda been sitting in my browser for days and I ended up doing this yesterday

    I understand that's your view and I respect that, but where was it stated that they would be Cavalier-level?
    Legendary difficulty is meant to mirror the Cavalier difficulty, as it always has.
    Actually, I've made that distinction before. Legendary has more leg room. It has varied from Uncollected to harder. Legendary is....well, Legendary. The difficulty is in the fact that a large number of people are in the demographic doing it. Making it too difficult becomes exclusive to people who are newly Cavalier. I think the difficulty is reasonable now. It's not overly-easy, but there's more emphasis on Node creativity.
  • solopolosolopolo Member Posts: 890 ★★★

    solopolo said:

    solopolo said:

    Difficulty on this quest was lower than I anticipated; at the very least I would've liked slightly larger health pools given that these are meant to be Cavalier level bosses, but the quest was enjoyable nonetheless. And in the process Wasp has shot up to become one of my favorite champions to play alongside Claire.

    I went in with Claire (5r5), CMM (6r3), Wasp (5r4), Fury (5r5) and Quake (5r5). Wasp and Claire doing most of the work, surprisingly I hardly used Cap at all, unlike my Cavalier runs where she does everything on her own.

    Most difficult fight for me was Medusa, because it somehow never crossed my mind to simply wait out the furies. Guess I was just too busy malding at the Polka Dots. Besides that, Chavez, Peni, Quake, and Kitty all fell to the wrath of the Wasp, who ended up being borderline cheese for a great majority of this quest.

    Concept-wise, Hela is easily my favorite of these fights. But again, health pools being so low resulted in the fight being over in a couple of combos into her block, so it ended up being a lot easier than it should've been.

    I'll probably end up doing repeat runs with different picks, just because it's the end of the "month" and I'm bored.


    Also, this post has kinda been sitting in my browser for days and I ended up doing this yesterday

    I understand that's your view and I respect that, but where was it stated that they would be Cavalier-level?
    Legendary difficulty is meant to mirror the Cavalier difficulty, as it always has.
    Actually, I've made that distinction before. Legendary has more leg room. It has varied from Uncollected to harder. Legendary is....well, Legendary. The difficulty is in the fact that a large number of people are in the demographic doing it. Making it too difficult becomes exclusive to people who are newly Cavalier. I think the difficulty is reasonable now. It's not overly-easy, but there's more emphasis on Node creativity.
    Personally I'd like to see at least a minor increase in difficulty in the side quests. I could go into this month's side quest and clear it with 5r4s without too much issue, and I'm not particularly skilled either.

    I agree that completion at least should be made easy, since I don't think it'd be fair to force newer cavaliers to stick to the uncollected quest after having reached that milestone, but full exploration needs to pose a greater challenge. Nodes like Invade, Heavy Assault and Power Shield all provide easier fights (usually), and these can be used on said easier paths, but when every fight ends within 30 hits or less from 5*s, I can't call that challenging at all, and when side quests typically have greater rewards than the monthly quest, that's a bit backwards to me.
  • SirGamesBondSirGamesBond Member Posts: 5,488 ★★★★★

    What's amf?

    It's a delicious cocktail
  • Hilbert_unbeatable2Hilbert_unbeatable2 Member Posts: 805 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Note: split into two posts because:


    Not to this but on hela wanted to add, max sig doom apperantly was still able to stun cheese her despite having nullify fail node
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,935 Guardian
    solopolo said:

    solopolo said:

    Difficulty on this quest was lower than I anticipated; at the very least I would've liked slightly larger health pools given that these are meant to be Cavalier level bosses, but the quest was enjoyable nonetheless. And in the process Wasp has shot up to become one of my favorite champions to play alongside Claire.

    I went in with Claire (5r5), CMM (6r3), Wasp (5r4), Fury (5r5) and Quake (5r5). Wasp and Claire doing most of the work, surprisingly I hardly used Cap at all, unlike my Cavalier runs where she does everything on her own.

    Most difficult fight for me was Medusa, because it somehow never crossed my mind to simply wait out the furies. Guess I was just too busy malding at the Polka Dots. Besides that, Chavez, Peni, Quake, and Kitty all fell to the wrath of the Wasp, who ended up being borderline cheese for a great majority of this quest.

    Concept-wise, Hela is easily my favorite of these fights. But again, health pools being so low resulted in the fight being over in a couple of combos into her block, so it ended up being a lot easier than it should've been.

    I'll probably end up doing repeat runs with different picks, just because it's the end of the "month" and I'm bored.


    Also, this post has kinda been sitting in my browser for days and I ended up doing this yesterday

    I understand that's your view and I respect that, but where was it stated that they would be Cavalier-level?
    Legendary difficulty is meant to mirror the Cavalier difficulty, as it always has.
    Meant to? Not exactly. Actually Legendary difficulty has generally averaged somewhat higher than Cavalier difficulty on a path by path basis, but the "difficulty" of the content has generally fluctuated based on other factors. For example side quests with no energy costs have tended to be harder on average, while side quests with energy costs have tended to be easier. Side quests with more paths tended to be easier, while side quests with rewards scattered across more paths have tended to be harder. Even within those parameters there has been significant fluctuations in difficulty.

    There isn't one specific "difficulty target" for side quests, it is more of a judgment call balancing difficulty, time expense, and energy costs. But also, content like this that has additional inputs, such as player-designed fights, have also been more flexible to accommodate the wider range of designer sources.
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