Wow thanks. I’ll be sure to bring a team of Beast, Groot and Green Goblin to AQ. I’m sure that’ll solve everything..
Argued like someone who would need daily potions;…
FYI Beast did me well in AQ(even aw) back when max 4* were the best you could hope for; the days when you had zero opportunity to acquire revives or health potions at anything beyond what you would get from summoner advancement, the days when map 5/6 were the pinnacle of AQ.
The other two, while being on the list, are not champions you would rely on for their regen/sustainability. Perhaps that is why you are struggling with the value of regeneration in AQ; you do not know who/how to make use of it.
Let's see you take map 8 with Groot OG iron man and Superior Iron Man. They're on the list so you can do it without pots right?
That’s a reductio ad absurdum argument. Trolling.
Iron man and superior iron man have been used for their sustainability in AQ however, in map 8 probably not because there are better options. They would be viable for exactly zero of my paths and I’ve never used any for AQ, but have used many others shown in the picture quoted. They may be suitable for map 6 which has been evidenced in the past.
Additionally if you regularly need to heal in AQ you should reevaluate your team, alliance or abilities.
FYI I currently use the ever sustainable Shang, Herc and Mole Man for 1/1/8 while taking advantage of 1 point in willpower. Herc is my powerhouse while Shang chi my utility and mole man being a mix of both. I rarely use items and regularly finish at the top of the BG in points while being capable of taking every fight to the end of the map without a single item used, on occasion. So uh what are you trying to say, I would not need bottom of the barrel sustainability for my paths in AQ nor would they be viable for the map I currently play, but they could be options for players on lesser AQ maps.
The ever wise coathang3r with another stellar take to show there's no problem at all. S/
Ahh the resident forum troll making false inferences, putting words in peoples mouths and while missing pot shots. Get off me.
In this instance he’s pointing out the troll job that’s distracting from the point the OP is raising. I don’t see how their isn’t universal player support fit for function and cost potions. The potion cost in this game mode is silly. No where else does it cost potentially 1000* units to heal up a champ to full if they are KO’d. Compensation let us ignore this bad pricing model for the last year, now that it’s gone it’s exposed like an open wound
The ever wise coathang3r with another stellar take to show there's no problem at all. S/
And the resident forum troll making false inferences, putting words in peoples mouths and while missing pot shots. Get off me.
I didn't put words in your mouth. You didn't say anything in that post but we know what you're saying with that infographic.
You're asserting that because healing champs exist in the game, there isn't anything wrong with the AQ pots/rev system. But over half those champs won't be used in any form unless used in low maps barring no other choices. We get what you're doing and it's not the point of the post.
Many of those champs can't run lanes in maps 7 and 8. But I'm sure you'll come back saying they are because you're the greatest player alive and you never need to use items in any content etc... Blah, blah, blah.
No, you are saying that. I am saying (without words) there are numerous options to mitigate damage taken and even recover damage taken in AQ which means the argument of the OP is incredibly flawed.
The ever wise coathang3r with another stellar take to show there's no problem at all. S/
Ahh the resident forum troll making false inferences, putting words in peoples mouths and while missing pot shots. Get off me.
I don’t see how their isn’t universal player support fit for function and cost potions. The potion cost in this game mode is silly. No where else does it cost potentially 1000* units to heal up a champ to full if they are KO’d. Compensation let us ignore this bad pricing model for the last year, now that it’s gone it’s exposed like an open wound
I read this as the game should subsidize players playing well above the roster/skill level because overly generous compensation made it possible in the past.
Playing at the hardest, toughest and most demanding levels of the game isn’t meant for everyone nor should it be; it’s becomes a game of pushing the “I win” button at the point you can compete at the highest levels of game modes without cost or consequence. Additionally it goes against the FTP model while diminishing players who can play at that level due to their time and roster investments over the duration of their progression.
Cool that your are incredulous about people being able to hold an opinion contrary to yours but that is not a strong argument, it’s a fallacious one.
Furthermore it is the failure of the 1000 unit AQ that encourages growth changing to the mindsets of players by forcing players to reflect on how they approach/play the game and the roster decisions they make; or at least it has for me which has made me the player I am today.
Wow thanks. I’ll be sure to bring a team of Beast, Groot and Green Goblin to AQ. I’m sure that’ll solve everything..
Argued like someone who would need daily potions;…
FYI Beast did me well in AQ(even aw) back when max 4* were the best you could hope for; the days when you had zero opportunity to acquire revives or health potions at anything beyond what you would get from summoner advancement, the days when map 5/6 were the pinnacle of AQ.
The other two, while being on the list, are not champions you would rely on for their regen/sustainability. Perhaps that is why you are struggling with the value of regeneration in AQ; you do not know who/how to make use of it.
Let's see you take map 8 with Groot OG iron man and Superior Iron Man. They're on the list so you can do it without pots right?
That’s a reductio ad absurdum argument. Trolling.
Iron man and superior iron man have been used for their sustainability in AQ however, in map 8 probably not because there are better options. They would be viable for exactly zero of my paths and I’ve never used any for AQ, but have used many others shown in the picture quoted. They may be suitable for map 6 which has been evidenced in the past.
Additionally if you regularly need to heal in AQ you should reevaluate your team, alliance or abilities.
FYI I currently use the ever sustainable Shang, Herc and Mole Man for 1/1/8 while taking advantage of 1 point in willpower. Herc is my powerhouse while Shang chi my utility and mole man being a mix of both. I rarely use items and regularly finish at the top of the BG in points while being capable of taking every fight to the end of the map without a single item used, on occasion. So uh what are you trying to say, I would not need bottom of the barrel sustainability for my paths in AQ nor would they be viable for the map I currently play, but they could be options for players on lesser AQ maps.
So because you don't use pots, no one should have to use pots or they should just step down a map is that right? Or if they don't have those champs you mentioned they should step down a map? Or if they don't have your godly fighting skills they should step down a map right?
It's good to know that if they can't be you, they just shouldn't play anything more than map 3. All hail the great overlord Coathang3r.
Wow thanks. I’ll be sure to bring a team of Beast, Groot and Green Goblin to AQ. I’m sure that’ll solve everything..
Argued like someone who would need daily potions;…
FYI Beast did me well in AQ(even aw) back when max 4* were the best you could hope for; the days when you had zero opportunity to acquire revives or health potions at anything beyond what you would get from summoner advancement, the days when map 5/6 were the pinnacle of AQ.
The other two, while being on the list, are not champions you would rely on for their regen/sustainability. Perhaps that is why you are struggling with the value of regeneration in AQ; you do not know who/how to make use of it.
Let's see you take map 8 with Groot OG iron man and Superior Iron Man. They're on the list so you can do it without pots right?
That’s a reductio ad absurdum argument. Trolling.
Iron man and superior iron man have been used for their sustainability in AQ however, in map 8 probably not because there are better options. They would be viable for exactly zero of my paths and I’ve never used any for AQ, but have used many others shown in the picture quoted. They may be suitable for map 6 which has been evidenced in the past.
Additionally if you regularly need to heal in AQ you should reevaluate your team, alliance or abilities.
FYI I currently use the ever sustainable Shang, Herc and Mole Man for 1/1/8 while taking advantage of 1 point in willpower. Herc is my powerhouse while Shang chi my utility and mole man being a mix of both. I rarely use items and regularly finish at the top of the BG in points while being capable of taking every fight to the end of the map without a single item used, on occasion. So uh what are you trying to say, I would not need bottom of the barrel sustainability for my paths in AQ nor would they be viable for the map I currently play, but they could be options for players on lesser AQ maps.
So because you don't use pots, no one should have to use pots or they should just step down a map is that right? Or if they don't have those champs you mentioned they should step down a map? Or if they don't have your godly fighting skills they should step down a map right?
It's good to know that if they can't be you, they just shouldn't play anything more than map 3. All hail the great overlord Coathang3r.
Again putting words in my mouth. Can you please stop with the trolling?
I have used pots, I don’t regularly use pots.what the game supplies to players is enough to get them through the level of difficulty they are capable of playing at with those resources; however if you want to play above your capabilities you can pay to do that (with either your time, resources or cash).
I didn’t come out of the gate and expect to play map 8. I earned my way to play at that level. I also wouldn’t expect to be able to play at that level if iron man, Groot and sim were my best options.
I find the glory rewarding and the boss and mini challenging. I find ranking up my characters and having more of them ranked so I have a wider pool to choose from in challenging content engaging.
That's what I get out of AQ.
I don't want to have to be forced to play it or feel forced to play regular content that is Swedeah levels of "interesting" and what you consider interesting; a fight challenge, not everyone else finds consistently interesting.
I don't think I could pay my alliance to run more "challenging/interesting" maps that had a higher risk threshold. It's not what they play for.
So while I agree that AQ is not challenging, the lack of consistent, every fight, risk it all, challenge, is not what everyone wants from the game, all the time.
EOP, war (to a degree), abyss, Act 7; there is challenge of a fighting difficulty and risk variety, packed into mcoc.
And that's before we get battlegrounds, which could be the real cutting edge of competitive, challenging play.
AQ in my view, actually provides a lot of support to those that like the RPG and theory crafting side of the game. It does not need to be somewhere where it's a "fight" challenge.
(Context: Our alliance is 11.7k average prestige and we run all map 5 for 304m score, 4,400 glory and 14k t5b and the first tier of map7 crystals. I think we have 3 Cavs, the rest TB with one paragon...
We do overpower map5 and regularly race to the minis and boss with a number of nodes up for the challenge. The drones end up at 10k attack, 100k life, so nearly everyone uses at least one Regen champion, to specifically avoid it being stressful..!
This Is a terrible point because some of us can’t run heal champs in our lines. For example I can in 1 of my map 8 lines but in my other I can’t. If your line allows it sure, but some don’t and need very specific champs who do not have a regen ability or life steal ability.
This Is a terrible point because some of us can’t run heal champs in our lines. For example I can in 1 of my map 8 lines but in my other I can’t. If your line allows it sure, but some don’t and need very specific champs who do not have a regen ability or life steal ability.
Which paths are those? You may be overlooking options. Additionally you do not need champions strictly with regeneration abilities as pointed out previously by bitter steel, there are champ who mitigate or annihilate that become sustainable though those abilites.
Wow thanks. I’ll be sure to bring a team of Beast, Groot and Green Goblin to AQ. I’m sure that’ll solve everything..
Argued like someone who would need daily potions;…
FYI Beast did me well in AQ(even aw) back when max 4* were the best you could hope for; the days when you had zero opportunity to acquire revives or health potions at anything beyond what you would get from summoner advancement, the days when map 5/6 were the pinnacle of AQ.
The other two, while being on the list, are not champions you would rely on for their regen/sustainability. Perhaps that is why you are struggling with the value of regeneration in AQ; you do not know who/how to make use of it.
Let's see you take map 8 with Groot OG iron man and Superior Iron Man. They're on the list so you can do it without pots right?
That’s a reductio ad absurdum argument. Trolling.
Iron man and superior iron man have been used for their sustainability in AQ however, in map 8 probably not because there are better options. They would be viable for exactly zero of my paths and I’ve never used any for AQ, but have used many others shown in the picture quoted. They may be suitable for map 6 which has been evidenced in the past.
Additionally if you regularly need to heal in AQ you should reevaluate your team, alliance or abilities.
FYI I currently use the ever sustainable Shang, Herc and Mole Man for 1/1/8 while taking advantage of 1 point in willpower. Herc is my powerhouse while Shang chi my utility and mole man being a mix of both. I rarely use items and regularly finish at the top of the BG in points while being capable of taking every fight to the end of the map without a single item used, on occasion. So uh what are you trying to say, I would not need bottom of the barrel sustainability for my paths in AQ nor would they be viable for the map I currently play, but they could be options for players on lesser AQ maps.
So because you don't use pots, no one should have to use pots or they should just step down a map is that right? Or if they don't have those champs you mentioned they should step down a map? Or if they don't have your godly fighting skills they should step down a map right?
It's good to know that if they can't be you, they just shouldn't play anything more than map 3. All hail the great overlord Coathang3r.
Again putting words in my mouth. Can you please stop with the trolling?
I have used pots, I don’t regularly use pots.what the game supplies to players is enough to get them through the level of difficulty they are capable of playing at with those resources; however if you want to play above your capabilities you can pay to do that (with either your time, resources or cash).
I didn’t come out of the gate and expect to play map 8. I earned my way to play at that level. I also wouldn’t expect to be able to play at that level if iron man, Groot and sim were my best options.
It's exactly what you're saying even though you keep denying it. You commenting history always shows you acting the same way. You can do it, so should everyone else, if not, they suck and shouldn't play higher maps. Surprised you and TheTalents aren't in the same alliance with your godly skills. We all know your motive here and it's BS.
But I'm done with you. This is a valid thread and I don't want to subtract from it any further.
One of the biggest fallacies of some arguments pointed out by some members on this post (mainly the one who names himself an instrument to hold garments), is that AQ is NOT an end game mode. It has a payment gate, and is something you have to do in all sorts of circumstances. Moreover, Map8 isnt the hardest map either, just the most expensive. AQ is something that just has to be done week in week out to get rank up resources. End game mode is War, and pretty much nothing else. For a mode that we have to do in a variety of sitations, having such a punishment when a mistake is made, is actually counter intuitive. AQ pots are outdated, but it is just a symptom of a larger problem. ALL healing in this game is overpriced. Healing in this game is monetized to a ridiculous degree, such that just reviving and going in is much better than actually probably healing. Unless you are using some of the usable healers, you are pretty much using herc or corvus a lot of the time. The biggest problem Kabam has is fixing this broken system called healing. They need to reduce healing costs across the entire game and reduce their iron grip on this monetization, this includes alliance war.
The ever wise coathang3r with another stellar take to show there's no problem at all. S/
Ahh the resident forum troll making false inferences, putting words in peoples mouths and while missing pot shots. Get off me.
I don’t see how their isn’t universal player support fit for function and cost potions. The potion cost in this game mode is silly. No where else does it cost potentially 1000* units to heal up a champ to full if they are KO’d. Compensation let us ignore this bad pricing model for the last year, now that it’s gone it’s exposed like an open wound
I read this as the game should subsidize players playing well above the roster/skill level because overly generous compensation made it possible in the past.
Playing at the hardest, toughest and most demanding levels of the game isn’t meant for everyone nor should it be; it’s becomes a game of pushing the “I win” button at the point you can compete at the highest levels of game modes without cost or consequence. Additionally it goes against the FTP model while diminishing players who can play at that level due to their time and roster investments over the duration of their progression.
Cool that your are incredulous about people being able to hold an opinion contrary to yours but that is not a strong argument, it’s a fallacious one.
Furthermore it is the failure of the 1000 unit AQ that encourages growth changing to the mindsets of players by forcing players to reflect on how they approach/play the game and the roster decisions they make; or at least it has for me which has made me the player I am today.
Yep there’s the forums I know and love. You can read my argument that way but, not really the point I’m trying to make.
Don’t worry I’ll survive this disagreement, it’s easy because your position is flawed. The current potions come from the same place as the DPX buff, 2017 (actually don’t mind the buff, but I get why so many are underwhelmed, and I digress so moving on). They should be updated to reflect 2022 rosters. In 2017 with a revive and a gold team potion I could get my full team back to full health for 500 units in AQ. Not sure why wanting that same ratio in 2022 makes anybody entitled. Especially with the current state of the game causing deaths unrelated to skill.
Wow thanks. I’ll be sure to bring a team of Beast, Groot and Green Goblin to AQ. I’m sure that’ll solve everything..
Argued like someone who would need daily potions;…
FYI Beast did me well in AQ(even aw) back when max 4* were the best you could hope for; the days when you had zero opportunity to acquire revives or health potions at anything beyond what you would get from summoner advancement, the days when map 5/6 were the pinnacle of AQ.
The other two, while being on the list, are not champions you would rely on for their regen/sustainability. Perhaps that is why you are struggling with the value of regeneration in AQ; you do not know who/how to make use of it.
Let's see you take map 8 with Groot OG iron man and Superior Iron Man. They're on the list so you can do it without pots right?
That’s a reductio ad absurdum argument. Trolling.
Iron man and superior iron man have been used for their sustainability in AQ however, in map 8 probably not because there are better options. They would be viable for exactly zero of my paths and I’ve never used any for AQ, but have used many others shown in the picture quoted. They may be suitable for map 6 which has been evidenced in the past.
Additionally if you regularly need to heal in AQ you should reevaluate your team, alliance or abilities.
FYI I currently use the ever sustainable Shang, Herc and Mole Man for 1/1/8 while taking advantage of 1 point in willpower. Herc is my powerhouse while Shang chi my utility and mole man being a mix of both. I rarely use items and regularly finish at the top of the BG in points while being capable of taking every fight to the end of the map without a single item used, on occasion. So uh what are you trying to say, I would not need bottom of the barrel sustainability for my paths in AQ nor would they be viable for the map I currently play, but they could be options for players on lesser AQ maps.
So because you don't use pots, no one should have to use pots or they should just step down a map is that right? Or if they don't have those champs you mentioned they should step down a map? Or if they don't have your godly fighting skills they should step down a map right?
It's good to know that if they can't be you, they just shouldn't play anything more than map 3. All hail the great overlord Coathang3r.
Again putting words in my mouth. Can you please stop with the trolling?
I have used pots, I don’t regularly use pots.what the game supplies to players is enough to get them through the level of difficulty they are capable of playing at with those resources; however if you want to play above your capabilities you can pay to do that (with either your time, resources or cash).
I didn’t come out of the gate and expect to play map 8. I earned my way to play at that level. I also wouldn’t expect to be able to play at that level if iron man, Groot and sim were my best options.
It's exactly what you're saying even though you keep denying it. You commenting history always shows you acting the same way. You can do it, so should everyone else, if not, they suck and shouldn't play higher maps. Surprised you and TheTalents aren't in the same alliance with your godly skills. We all know your motive here and it's BS.
But I'm done with you. This is a valid thread and I don't want to subtract from it any further.
Puttings words in my mouth, making false inferences. And no you’re never done with me, you regularly confront me with the same BS tactics, you can’t help yourself, I wish you could and would but you cannot.
My alt is in a 422 that barely topped 50mil and ranked 6338. I’d love to see someone I try to get as few points as possible just to see exactly how many land between 1 and 50mil.
Wow thanks. I’ll be sure to bring a team of Beast, Groot and Green Goblin to AQ. I’m sure that’ll solve everything..
Argued like someone who would need daily potions;…
FYI Beast did me well in AQ(even aw) back when max 4* were the best you could hope for; the days when you had zero opportunity to acquire revives or health potions at anything beyond what you would get from summoner advancement, the days when map 5/6 were the pinnacle of AQ.
The other two, while being on the list, are not champions you would rely on for their regen/sustainability. Perhaps that is why you are struggling with the value of regeneration in AQ; you do not know who/how to make use of it.
Let's see you take map 8 with Groot OG iron man and Superior Iron Man. They're on the list so you can do it without pots right?
That’s a reductio ad absurdum argument. Trolling.
Iron man and superior iron man have been used for their sustainability in AQ however, in map 8 probably not because there are better options. They would be viable for exactly zero of my paths and I’ve never used any for AQ, but have used many others shown in the picture quoted. They may be suitable for map 6 which has been evidenced in the past.
Additionally if you regularly need to heal in AQ you should reevaluate your team, alliance or abilities.
FYI I currently use the ever sustainable Shang, Herc and Mole Man for 1/1/8 while taking advantage of 1 point in willpower. Herc is my powerhouse while Shang chi my utility and mole man being a mix of both. I rarely use items and regularly finish at the top of the BG in points while being capable of taking every fight to the end of the map without a single item used, on occasion. So uh what are you trying to say, I would not need bottom of the barrel sustainability for my paths in AQ nor would they be viable for the map I currently play, but they could be options for players on lesser AQ maps.
So because you don't use pots, no one should have to use pots or they should just step down a map is that right? Or if they don't have those champs you mentioned they should step down a map? Or if they don't have your godly fighting skills they should step down a map right?
It's good to know that if they can't be you, they just shouldn't play anything more than map 3. All hail the great overlord Coathang3r.
TBH, this is the same sort of response you give to others when they complain about difficulty. Step down and do maps that are easier or step down and do the side quest or monthly quest that are a level lower if you can’t do the highest. Now you are calling out coathanger for doing it? I would call this hypocrisy to some extent.
I mean, can’t this post just be countered by the argument of taking champions that help or counter the fact that you lose health?
No, because the argument is not that players lose too much health and so they need cheaper potions. In fact, I explicitly stated that the I have no problem with AQ potions becoming even more expensive - eventually.
The problem is that the cost structure discourages players from using them *at all*. That means, factoring in everything a player can do, whether it is choosing optimal teams or configuring masteries in a particular way, regardless of whether they are doing everything possible or not, the only reasonable AQ map to run is the one that doesn't cost AQ potions. Not constantly, but ever.
Sure, a player who does AQ and very rarely spends one potion every other month is perfectly fine. But the likelihood of a player finding themselves in that situation is extremely low, given the numbers involved. Incoming damage tends to be high compared to the strength of potions, which means of all possible map and modifier configurations a player could possibly face, or could even attempt to face, it is vastly more likely that one map will be easy, and the next higher map will be costly,. The sweet spot of a player occasionally needing the rare potion is small, except in the case of a player doing a map so easy that they occasionally make a careless error.
I'm not saying this is impossible to do. I'm not saying it is impossible to avoid spending on potions. I'm saying it is *easy* to avoid spending on potions. Just only do maps where you don't need to spend on potions, factoring in everything you can do to make them easy. However, I'm also saying such maps are almost by definition trivial.
If Kabam came straight out and said "we only intend players to play maps they can easily do, because it is intended to be a trivial repetitive task" and the players were fine with that, okay. If Kabam was hesitant to say that because it sounds bad and just said nothing, we could still infer. But that's not what Kabam does. Kabam has consistently stated in words and implied by actions that AQ isn't supposed to be a trivial repetitive exercise. It is supposed to be some version of challenging. They want players to try to move up. They keep revising AQ to keep it "fresh." They keep increasing the challenge level of the maps even when they are supposedly improving their accessibility because they can't help themselves. They see AQ as something that's supposed to be nominally interesting content.
The conflict is that it cannot be interesting and also extremely punishing when it comes to mistakes outside of the player's comfort zone. Using more survivable champs, using masteries like Willpower, these are all part of the player's nominal comfort zone. They along with their skill level are what dictates which maps are trivial, and which will cost a lot. And then what is the question. Do we all pick the trivial one and call it a day? That's a rhetorical question. That is what the vast majority of players do. Because it is the only economically sane choice.
The question for the devs is: is that intentional. If it is, then this is all redundant hand waving. If it isn't, then I think they have something to think about when players complain about AQ being boring. Because they made it that way.
If potions were cheaper, then it would be an incentive to try harder maps.
To be clear, I'm not advocating making potions so cheap that players could then just potion through AQ. What I'm saying is that in between using zero potions and using potions constantly is the grey area of imperfect humans not playing like robots, where there's no such thing as a map that is the highest possible difficulty without spending that is actually difficulty at all. The only way to not spend a lot is to do a map safe enough that the odds of needing any potions drops to nearly zero.
Potion usage doesn't rise slowly upward in a nice mathematically smooth curve. Potion usage is stochastic, it is bursty, it has a pseudo-random element due to the nature of human gameplay. You can't "tune in" difficulty to the razor's edge where content is significantly challenging but not so much that players can still avoid spending on potions. Difficulty doesn't work that way.
In trivially easy content players are either not buying potions at all, or buying a trivial amount occasionally. In very difficulty content players are buying them all the time. The grey area between the two is very small. It can be made wider, so the game tolerates players taking *some* risks, but not so much that they are genuinely overmatched. *Eventually* potion costs have to rise to their current levels or even higher, to discourage players from using them to power through maps genuinely outside their skill level. But I think if you want players to take risks, you have to assume those risks come with the high probability that the players will fail some of those risks.
How high of a failure rate you allow for is essentially defining how interesting or challenging you want content to be. If that number is zero, or nearly zero, that says something about how you want players to approach your content.
It is bizarre (ie a design flaw) that the cost of aq potions esp unit wise is so high. we would all agree that we don’t need a bump in costs in normal questing potions, even they haven’t been tuned much since 4* champs were the norm. Yet aq potions are treated as ten times the price when it’s something (as active players) we run 5/8 days, expecting $50 worth of units/potions to revive and heal one champ is showing how out of touch the design team is, maps 5 and 6 have definitely had difficulty bumps, now that compo stash is running out, I’m seeing a lot of long term casual spenders squirming and leaving the game, I won’t spend a cent while this game is having control issues, stopped my unit subscription and definitely won’t take it back up in this current state, im forecasting that the current state of the game and the cost of potions once we start having to buy them is going to be the straw that breaks a lot of camels backs,
Until all input issues are actually fixed, there should be a 40% AQ team revive for 1 Glory. If the game is ever fixed and not broken, then raise that price to maybe 100 glory.
The team revive in the Glory story is also long overdue for a change, a 350 health team revive is a joke except for 2 star champs, and at a cost of 280 glory, why bother?. Likewise the Level 2 and Level 3 individual health potions need their price cut in half, or their potency doubled, or both.
Wow thanks. I’ll be sure to bring a team of Beast, Groot and Green Goblin to AQ. I’m sure that’ll solve everything..
Argued like someone who would need daily potions;…
FYI Beast did me well in AQ(even aw) back when max 4* were the best you could hope for; the days when you had zero opportunity to acquire revives or health potions at anything beyond what you would get from summoner advancement, the days when map 5/6 were the pinnacle of AQ.
The other two, while being on the list, are not champions you would rely on for their regen/sustainability. Perhaps that is why you are struggling with the value of regeneration in AQ; you do not know who/how to make use of it.
Let's see you take map 8 with Groot OG iron man and Superior Iron Man. They're on the list so you can do it without pots right?
That’s a reductio ad absurdum argument. Trolling.
Iron man and superior iron man have been used for their sustainability in AQ however, in map 8 probably not because there are better options. They would be viable for exactly zero of my paths and I’ve never used any for AQ, but have used many others shown in the picture quoted. They may be suitable for map 6 which has been evidenced in the past.
Additionally if you regularly need to heal in AQ you should reevaluate your team, alliance or abilities.
FYI I currently use the ever sustainable Shang, Herc and Mole Man for 1/1/8 while taking advantage of 1 point in willpower. Herc is my powerhouse while Shang chi my utility and mole man being a mix of both. I rarely use items and regularly finish at the top of the BG in points while being capable of taking every fight to the end of the map without a single item used, on occasion. So uh what are you trying to say, I would not need bottom of the barrel sustainability for my paths in AQ nor would they be viable for the map I currently play, but they could be options for players on lesser AQ maps.
So because you don't use pots, no one should have to use pots or they should just step down a map is that right? Or if they don't have those champs you mentioned they should step down a map? Or if they don't have your godly fighting skills they should step down a map right?
It's good to know that if they can't be you, they just shouldn't play anything more than map 3. All hail the great overlord Coathang3r.
Again putting words in my mouth. Can you please stop with the trolling?
I have used pots, I don’t regularly use pots.what the game supplies to players is enough to get them through the level of difficulty they are capable of playing at with those resources; however if you want to play above your capabilities you can pay to do that (with either your time, resources or cash).
I didn’t come out of the gate and expect to play map 8. I earned my way to play at that level. I also wouldn’t expect to be able to play at that level if iron man, Groot and sim were my best options.
It's exactly what you're saying even though you keep denying it. You commenting history always shows you acting the same way. You can do it, so should everyone else, if not, they suck and shouldn't play higher maps. Surprised you and TheTalents aren't in the same alliance with your godly skills. We all know your motive here and it's BS.
But I'm done with you. This is a valid thread and I don't want to subtract from it any further.
Puttings words in my mouth, making false inferences. And no you’re never done with me, you regularly confront me with the same BS tactics, you can’t help yourself, I wish you could and would but you cannot.
Dont even bother.. he was asked to leave from an alliance for jumping paths and iteming out in a map 8 alliance
With some creativity and patience you can run almost any line in map 8 w few if any items. Same can he said for map 7. For example very few talking about how sustainable kingpin or g2099 can be for those maps. Counter many lanes and recover massive amounts of health either through wp or regen. Not all lanes allow counters like these, but many do. We are a top 90 ally and very few players use more than 2-3 items on day 5, many use none. Are we all stars? Not really, we just study the game and plan our counters.
With some creativity and patience you can run almost any line in map 8 w few if any items. Same can he said for map 7. For example very few talking about how sustainable kingpin or g2099 can be for those maps. Counter many lanes and recover massive amounts of health either through wp or regen. Not all lanes allow counters like these, but many do. We are a top 90 ally and very few players use more than 2-3 items on day 5, many use none. Are we all stars? Not really, we just study the game and plan our counters.
You believe the only difference between the players that do Map 8 and the players that don't is that the players that do Map 8 study a little more?
There are a lot of different ways to respond to that assertion. I'm going to select the one that is most appropriate here.
With some creativity and patience you can run almost any line in map 8 w few if any items. Same can he said for map 7. For example very few talking about how sustainable kingpin or g2099 can be for those maps. Counter many lanes and recover massive amounts of health either through wp or regen. Not all lanes allow counters like these, but many do. We are a top 90 ally and very few players use more than 2-3 items on day 5, many use none. Are we all stars? Not really, we just study the game and plan our counters.
You believe the only difference between the players that do Map 8 and the players that don't is that the players that do Map 8 study a little more?
There are a lot of different ways to respond to that assertion. I'm going to select the one that is most appropriate here.
My point was that with some thought and planning you can run aq with moderate item use, even higher end aq. If you aren’t using healing champs, you are playing the wrong game. Guys playing 7 & 8 consistently have usually figured this out.
With some creativity and patience you can run almost any line in map 8 w few if any items. Same can he said for map 7. For example very few talking about how sustainable kingpin or g2099 can be for those maps. Counter many lanes and recover massive amounts of health either through wp or regen. Not all lanes allow counters like these, but many do. We are a top 90 ally and very few players use more than 2-3 items on day 5, many use none. Are we all stars? Not really, we just study the game and plan our counters.
You believe the only difference between the players that do Map 8 and the players that don't is that the players that do Map 8 study a little more?
There are a lot of different ways to respond to that assertion. I'm going to select the one that is most appropriate here.
My point was that with some thought and planning you can run aq with moderate item use, even higher end aq. If you aren’t using healing champs, you are playing the wrong game. Guys playing 7 & 8 consistently have usually figured this out.
If by "you" you mean me, then you're probably right. I'm pretty sure I could run most lanes on Map 7 or Map 8 without too much item use with sufficient spin up time.
However, I'm not asking for potion help or help with AQ. I'm fine.
Comments
Iron man and superior iron man have been used for their sustainability in AQ however, in map 8 probably not because there are better options. They would be viable for exactly zero of my paths and I’ve never used any for AQ, but have used many others shown in the picture quoted. They may be suitable for map 6 which has been evidenced in the past.
Additionally if you regularly need to heal in AQ you should reevaluate your team, alliance or abilities.
FYI I currently use the ever sustainable Shang, Herc and Mole Man for 1/1/8 while taking advantage of 1 point in willpower. Herc is my powerhouse while Shang chi my utility and mole man being a mix of both. I rarely use items and regularly finish at the top of the BG in points while being capable of taking every fight to the end of the map without a single item used, on occasion. So uh what are you trying to say, I would not need bottom of the barrel sustainability for my paths in AQ nor would they be viable for the map I currently play, but they could be options for players on lesser AQ maps.
Playing at the hardest, toughest and most demanding levels of the game isn’t meant for everyone nor should it be; it’s becomes a game of pushing the “I win” button at the point you can compete at the highest levels of game modes without cost or consequence. Additionally it goes against the FTP model while diminishing players who can play at that level due to their time and roster investments over the duration of their progression.
Cool that your are incredulous about people being able to hold an opinion contrary to yours but that is not a strong argument, it’s a fallacious one.
Furthermore it is the failure of the 1000 unit AQ that encourages growth changing to the mindsets of players by forcing players to reflect on how they approach/play the game and the roster decisions they make; or at least it has for me which has made me the player I am today.
It's good to know that if they can't be you, they just shouldn't play anything more than map 3. All hail the great overlord Coathang3r.
I have used pots, I don’t regularly use pots.what the game supplies to players is enough to get them through the level of difficulty they are capable of playing at with those resources; however if you want to play above your capabilities you can pay to do that (with either your time, resources or cash).
I didn’t come out of the gate and expect to play map 8. I earned my way to play at that level. I also wouldn’t expect to be able to play at that level if iron man, Groot and sim were my best options.
I find the glory rewarding and the boss and mini challenging. I find ranking up my characters and having more of them ranked so I have a wider pool to choose from in challenging content engaging.
That's what I get out of AQ.
I don't want to have to be forced to play it or feel forced to play regular content that is Swedeah levels of "interesting" and what you consider interesting; a fight challenge, not everyone else finds consistently interesting.
I don't think I could pay my alliance to run more "challenging/interesting" maps that had a higher risk threshold. It's not what they play for.
So while I agree that AQ is not challenging, the lack of consistent, every fight, risk it all, challenge, is not what everyone wants from the game, all the time.
EOP, war (to a degree), abyss, Act 7; there is challenge of a fighting difficulty and risk variety, packed into mcoc.
And that's before we get battlegrounds, which could be the real cutting edge of competitive, challenging play.
AQ in my view, actually provides a lot of support to those that like the RPG and theory crafting side of the game. It does not need to be somewhere where it's a "fight" challenge.
(Context: Our alliance is 11.7k average prestige and we run all map 5 for 304m score, 4,400 glory and 14k t5b and the first tier of map7 crystals. I think we have 3 Cavs, the rest TB with one paragon...
We do overpower map5 and regularly race to the minis and boss with a number of nodes up for the challenge. The drones end up at 10k attack, 100k life, so nearly everyone uses at least one Regen champion, to specifically avoid it being stressful..!
And all of us are, broadly, happy.)
But I'm done with you. This is a valid thread and I don't want to subtract from it any further.
AQ is something that just has to be done week in week out to get rank up resources. End game mode is War, and pretty much nothing else. For a mode that we have to do in a variety of sitations, having such a punishment when a mistake is made, is actually counter intuitive.
AQ pots are outdated, but it is just a symptom of a larger problem. ALL healing in this game is overpriced. Healing in this game is monetized to a ridiculous degree, such that just reviving and going in is much better than actually probably healing. Unless you are using some of the usable healers, you are pretty much using herc or corvus a lot of the time.
The biggest problem Kabam has is fixing this broken system called healing. They need to reduce healing costs across the entire game and reduce their iron grip on this monetization, this includes alliance war.
Don’t worry I’ll survive this disagreement, it’s easy because your position is flawed. The current potions come from the same place as the DPX buff, 2017 (actually don’t mind the buff, but I get why so many are underwhelmed, and I digress so moving on). They should be updated to reflect 2022 rosters. In 2017 with a revive and a gold team potion I could get my full team back to full health for 500 units in AQ. Not sure why wanting that same ratio in 2022 makes anybody entitled. Especially with the current state of the game causing deaths unrelated to skill.
The problem is that the cost structure discourages players from using them *at all*. That means, factoring in everything a player can do, whether it is choosing optimal teams or configuring masteries in a particular way, regardless of whether they are doing everything possible or not, the only reasonable AQ map to run is the one that doesn't cost AQ potions. Not constantly, but ever.
Sure, a player who does AQ and very rarely spends one potion every other month is perfectly fine. But the likelihood of a player finding themselves in that situation is extremely low, given the numbers involved. Incoming damage tends to be high compared to the strength of potions, which means of all possible map and modifier configurations a player could possibly face, or could even attempt to face, it is vastly more likely that one map will be easy, and the next higher map will be costly,. The sweet spot of a player occasionally needing the rare potion is small, except in the case of a player doing a map so easy that they occasionally make a careless error.
I'm not saying this is impossible to do. I'm not saying it is impossible to avoid spending on potions. I'm saying it is *easy* to avoid spending on potions. Just only do maps where you don't need to spend on potions, factoring in everything you can do to make them easy. However, I'm also saying such maps are almost by definition trivial.
If Kabam came straight out and said "we only intend players to play maps they can easily do, because it is intended to be a trivial repetitive task" and the players were fine with that, okay. If Kabam was hesitant to say that because it sounds bad and just said nothing, we could still infer. But that's not what Kabam does. Kabam has consistently stated in words and implied by actions that AQ isn't supposed to be a trivial repetitive exercise. It is supposed to be some version of challenging. They want players to try to move up. They keep revising AQ to keep it "fresh." They keep increasing the challenge level of the maps even when they are supposedly improving their accessibility because they can't help themselves. They see AQ as something that's supposed to be nominally interesting content.
The conflict is that it cannot be interesting and also extremely punishing when it comes to mistakes outside of the player's comfort zone. Using more survivable champs, using masteries like Willpower, these are all part of the player's nominal comfort zone. They along with their skill level are what dictates which maps are trivial, and which will cost a lot. And then what is the question. Do we all pick the trivial one and call it a day? That's a rhetorical question. That is what the vast majority of players do. Because it is the only economically sane choice.
The question for the devs is: is that intentional. If it is, then this is all redundant hand waving. If it isn't, then I think they have something to think about when players complain about AQ being boring. Because they made it that way.
Potion usage doesn't rise slowly upward in a nice mathematically smooth curve. Potion usage is stochastic, it is bursty, it has a pseudo-random element due to the nature of human gameplay. You can't "tune in" difficulty to the razor's edge where content is significantly challenging but not so much that players can still avoid spending on potions. Difficulty doesn't work that way.
In trivially easy content players are either not buying potions at all, or buying a trivial amount occasionally. In very difficulty content players are buying them all the time. The grey area between the two is very small. It can be made wider, so the game tolerates players taking *some* risks, but not so much that they are genuinely overmatched. *Eventually* potion costs have to rise to their current levels or even higher, to discourage players from using them to power through maps genuinely outside their skill level. But I think if you want players to take risks, you have to assume those risks come with the high probability that the players will fail some of those risks.
How high of a failure rate you allow for is essentially defining how interesting or challenging you want content to be. If that number is zero, or nearly zero, that says something about how you want players to approach your content.
The team revive in the Glory story is also long overdue for a change, a 350 health team revive is a joke except for 2 star champs, and at a cost of 280 glory, why bother?. Likewise the Level 2 and Level 3 individual health potions need their price cut in half, or their potency doubled, or both.
There are a lot of different ways to respond to that assertion. I'm going to select the one that is most appropriate here.
However, I'm not asking for potion help or help with AQ. I'm fine.