Gorr turns off willpower..?

FEARZ_0 · July 2022

Is it just me or is this just an awful move from Kabam? As a player who runs suicide masteries a lot of the time I’ve had my fair share of champs that I can’t really use because they require firing off a lot of specials due to recoil, but that’s not too big of an issue to me because you can still use them but you just can’t use any special attack besides the 3rd one. But I just got 3* Gorr from the arena milestones and I was stunned to see that he just kills himself because he won’t heal from the suicide mastery willpower healing.. he’s at 50% health with in 10-15 seconds... I feel like this is INSANE that Kabam would even try do something like this...? Anyone else agree with me or am I just crazy?

Vendemiaire · July 2022

Gorr is the only champ among 200 champions who has this feature and unlike Daredevil (HK) he can still play with it if you cycle his buffs to gain heal by playing aggressively.

I don't think it's an arse move because we have a lot of champions who definitely benefits a lot with Suicides:

Hercules (reduced potency on bleed and poison = permanent heal, bonus attack rating from liquid courage)
Kitty Pride (phasing reduces damage to 0% = permanent heal)
Diablo (drastic reduced potency on poison = permanent heal)
Knull (reduced potency on bleed and poison = permanent heal)
...and many more.

Not all champions should cater to suicides as it is already a huge advantage (+60% damage). It's a trade-off. It was your decision to take this compromise for a leverage that you can take advantage of. We can't use all champions with a single mastery set-up. I just hope Kabam release Mastery 2.0 already so switching between them won't be tedious.

P.S. I also run suicides most of the time.

DNA3000 · July 2022

FEARZ_0 said:
Is it just me or is this just an awful move from Kabam? As a player who runs suicide masteries a lot of the time I’ve had my fair share of champs that I can’t really use because they require firing off a lot of specials due to recoil, but that’s not too big of an issue to me because you can still use them but you just can’t use any special attack besides the 3rd one. But I just got 3* Gorr from the arena milestones and I was stunned to see that he just kills himself because he won’t heal from the suicide mastery willpower healing.. he’s at 50% health with in 10-15 seconds... I feel like this is INSANE that Kabam would even try do something like this...? Anyone else agree with me or am I just crazy?

Gorr's healing is mechanically tricky. First, he loses Willpower as you mention. But in exchange, every time he gains a shadow magic buff he gains a heal buff if he has a debuff that matches. For our purposes here, he will start with a bleed debuff and a poison debuff if he has full suicides. The first time he triggers Viscera Magic and the first time he triggers Venom Magic, he will get a stacking rergen buff. Once double edge goes away, every successive Venom Magic buff will trigger a heal (since the poison from Liquid Courage is persistent).

Initially, these heals will be super weak because they heal a percentage of missing health. When Gorr is near full health, the heal will heal for almost nothing. But as Gorr drops in health these heals will get stronger and stronger. At 16% of missing health, by the time Gorr is down to about 40% health they will be healing for about 10% of health per trigger. Factoring in the effects of the poison debuff (-30% heal) and assuming Recovery:3 (+15% heal) we end up with something around 8% heal per trigger. That's before Heresy stacks. If you cycle fast enough, that's enough to balance out Liquid Courage damage and at least some recoil damage.

Depending on how offensively aggressive you want to get with Gorr, with suicides he will drop in health pretty quickly at first, then slow down until he is hovering between 20% and 40% health, probably (it depends on how you play him). That seems to be what the devs were specifically going for: a champ that tends to live at lower health but gets other benefits for doing so.

Also, Gorr will have one suicide friendly property that no one else currently has. He's immune to heal block. Heal block is the bane of suicide masteries for most champs. Gorr won't be affected negatively by heal block at all.

FEARZ_0 · July 2022

Vendemiaire said:
Gorr is the only champ among 200 champions who has this feature and unlike Daredevil (HK) he can still play with it if you cycle his buffs to gain heal by playing aggressively.

I don't think it's an arse move because we have a lot of champions who definitely benefits a lot with Suicides:

Hercules (reduced potency on bleed and poison = permanent heal, bonus attack rating from liquid courage)
Kitty Pride (phasing reduces damage to 0% = permanent heal)
Diablo (drastic reduced potency on poison = permanent heal)
Knull (reduced potency on bleed and poison = permanent heal)
...and many more.

Not all champions should cater to suicides as it is already a huge advantage (+60% damage). It's a trade-off. It was your decision to take this compromise for a leverage that you can take advantage of. We can't use all champions with a single mastery set-up. I just hope Kabam release Mastery 2.0 already so switching between them won't be tedious.

P.S. I also run suicides most of the time.

I fully understand the point you’re coming from, but I’m not saying all champs should cater to suicides like I mentioned there is already a massive con to suicides “Recoil” and there are lots of champs that it doesn’t make much sense to use because of it and I’m happy with that. it would be an unfair advantage if every champ was build to use suicides.
I’m 100% okay with the fact that if I want to use a champ that isn’t suicide friendly I’m limited to a SP3 that’s fine I can still play with a champ I like even if it’s not optimal damage output for that champ. My issue is the fact it turns off willpower?! And whilst it literally makes him unplayable with suicides 😭 what’s to stop Kabam bringing out champs that turn off other masteries...?! Imagine a champ comes out and it turns of Dex or parry!?

My main issue is the turning off willpower, I think that’s such a bad move, I’m all for bringing out champs that aren’t suicide friendly I just think this is a BS move from Kabam. I paid to max out my willpower, I want it to work on any champ I decide to use, it’s as simple as that!

P.S apologies if I come across aggressive, I’m not trying to be but I know it can be hard to read people’s tones over the internet, I’m just really really annoyed with Kabam

FEARZ_0 · July 2022

DNA3000 said:

FEARZ_0 said:
Is it just me or is this just an awful move from Kabam? As a player who runs suicide masteries a lot of the time I’ve had my fair share of champs that I can’t really use because they require firing off a lot of specials due to recoil, but that’s not too big of an issue to me because you can still use them but you just can’t use any special attack besides the 3rd one. But I just got 3* Gorr from the arena milestones and I was stunned to see that he just kills himself because he won’t heal from the suicide mastery willpower healing.. he’s at 50% health with in 10-15 seconds... I feel like this is INSANE that Kabam would even try do something like this...? Anyone else agree with me or am I just crazy?
Gorr's healing is mechanically tricky. First, he loses Willpower as you mention. But in exchange, every time he gains a shadow magic buff he gains a heal buff if he has a debuff that matches. For our purposes here, he will start with a bleed debuff and a poison debuff if he has full suicides. The first time he triggers Viscera Magic and the first time he triggers Venom Magic, he will get a stacking rergen buff. Once double edge goes away, every successive Venom Magic buff will trigger a heal (since the poison from Liquid Courage is persistent).

Initially, these heals will be super weak because they heal a percentage of missing health. When Gorr is near full health, the heal will heal for almost nothing. But as Gorr drops in health these heals will get stronger and stronger. At 16% of missing health, by the time Gorr is down to about 40% health they will be healing for about 10% of health per trigger. Factoring in the effects of the poison debuff (-30% heal) and assuming Recovery:3 (+15% heal) we end up with something around 8% heal per trigger. That's before Heresy stacks. If you cycle fast enough, that's enough to balance out Liquid Courage damage and at least some recoil damage.

Depending on how offensively aggressive you want to get with Gorr, with suicides he will drop in health pretty quickly at first, then slow down until he is hovering between 20% and 40% health, probably (it depends on how you play him). That seems to be what the devs were specifically going for: a champ that tends to live at lower health but gets other benefits for doing so.

Also, Gorr will have one suicide friendly property that no one else currently has. He's immune to heal block. Heal block is the bane of suicide masteries for most champs. Gorr won't be affected negatively by heal block at all.

From the testing I’ve done with my 3* in ROL without being hit even for a parry, and cycling through his magic phases every combo so I’m refreshing the healing as fast as I can it doesn’t outbalance Liquid Courage because of the 2 phases where you dont trigger a heal and that’s with no recoil damage either because I didn’t throw any specials besides sp3... it was a ~250 hit fight and I just died of my own suicide masteries no damage taken from WS. So maybe the healing is better at higher star ratings? 🤷🏼‍♂️ But it should all scale the same

Vendemiaire · July 2022

Well, it wouldn't be the Internet if people aren't fighting over misunderstanding. Hahaha.

Yea, his design is really quirky. He gains a bonus from the willpower in the form of Vicious buffs. He's still usable with it turned on but you're gonna have to play with a specific playstyle.

I actually think it sucks because I really like Gorr from the comics and Christian Bale's portrayal was *chef's kiss*. He's gonna be on my "cool quirky champion but will not rankup" list along with Dinosaur man.

FEARZ_0 · July 2022

Vendemiaire said:
Well, it wouldn't be the Internet if people aren't fighting over misunderstanding. Hahaha.

Yea, his design is really quirky. He gains a bonus from the willpower in the form of Vicious buffs. He's still usable with it turned on but you're gonna have to play with a specific playstyle.

I actually think it sucks because I really like Gorr from the comics and Christian Bale's portrayal was *chef's kiss*. He's gonna be on my "cool quirky champion but will not rankup" list along with Dinosaur man.

Yeah Christian Bales acting was like Heath Ledger Joker level, it was incredible! And yeah it sucks I won’t be able to play him, I might not even rank him up so I can keep him out of my arena teams cus he’ll probably cause me to loose the streak 🤣😅

K00shMaan · July 2022

It's something new and unique which I do commend. Don't have Gorr yet so can't really comment on how much it affects him. I know he has Heal Block Immunity but I don't see anything that prevents his Regen Rate from being manipulated via other means (i.e. Despair). I think if you add that in with not having Willpower as well it's really gonna hurt him his sustainability for AW and BG. Seems like an interesting champ though.

SirGamesBond · July 2022

Guess you missed this https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2124904/#Comment_2124904

Gorr turns off willpower..?

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