Potential Delay to v44.1 Launch

We are currently working through some issues that may affect the release window of v44.1. This means that the update may not release on Monday as it usually does. We are working to resolve the issue holding us up as quickly as possible, but will keep you all updated, especially if the delay results in any changes to the content release schedule.
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Why Battleground is the Best Format They created.

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    SearmenisSearmenis Posts: 1,545 ★★★★★
    Garlo said:

    Good skills+good roster = BG fun & excellent rewards.

    Poor skills+good roster = BG complaints & accounts stuck in VT

    Cruel but true.

    Option #3 (the most common): Whatever Skills + Whatever Roster + BG bugs + Screen freezing - Parry - Dexterity + AI going crazy = BG complaints & Accounts stuck in VT For Eternity.
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    Justin2524Justin2524 Posts: 1,626 ★★★★
    Searmenis said:

    Garlo said:

    Good skills+good roster = BG fun & excellent rewards.

    Poor skills+good roster = BG complaints & accounts stuck in VT

    Cruel but true.

    Option #3 (the most common): Whatever Skills + Whatever Roster + BG bugs + Screen freezing - Parry - Dexterity + AI going crazy = BG complaints & Accounts stuck in VT For Eternity.
    Yeah but like Kebam Jax said everyone is facing the same issue and playing with the same conditions as it stands so all is fair in the end.
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    AdevatiAdevati Posts: 437 ★★★

    Adevati said:

    Garlo said:

    Good skills+good roster = BG fun & excellent rewards.

    Poor skills+good roster = BG complaints & accounts stuck in VT

    Cruel but true.

    You missed two:

    Poor skill+poor roster = stuck in VT

    Good skill+poor roster = stuck in VT

    You highlighted a problem. Only one group gets good rewards. The group with the fewest people.
    If you are good couldn't you clear all other contents and eventually build a good roster?



    There’s not enough rewards in permanent content to collect and rank a good 30+ champion pool.

    I’ve explored all permanent content (except Abyss) and I’m still missing half the top tier attack champions. And certainly don’t have resources to level the top defenders I do have.
  • Options
    Justin2524Justin2524 Posts: 1,626 ★★★★
    Adevati said:

    Adevati said:

    Garlo said:

    Good skills+good roster = BG fun & excellent rewards.

    Poor skills+good roster = BG complaints & accounts stuck in VT

    Cruel but true.

    You missed two:

    Poor skill+poor roster = stuck in VT

    Good skill+poor roster = stuck in VT

    You highlighted a problem. Only one group gets good rewards. The group with the fewest people.
    If you are good couldn't you clear all other contents and eventually build a good roster?



    There’s not enough rewards in permanent content to collect and rank a good 30+ champion pool.

    I’ve explored all permanent content (except Abyss) and I’m still missing half the top tier attack champions. And certainly don’t have resources to level the top defenders I do have.
    And monthly quests? And event quests? And AQ and AW? And eop?

    C’mon bro…
  • Options
    Justin2524Justin2524 Posts: 1,626 ★★★★
    DrZola said:

    Searmenis said:

    Garlo said:

    Good skills+good roster = BG fun & excellent rewards.

    Poor skills+good roster = BG complaints & accounts stuck in VT

    Cruel but true.

    Option #3 (the most common): Whatever Skills + Whatever Roster + BG bugs + Screen freezing - Parry - Dexterity + AI going crazy = BG complaints & Accounts stuck in VT For Eternity.
    Yeah but like Kebam Jax said everyone is facing the same issue and playing with the same conditions as it stands so all is fair in the end.
    And Jax said this precisely where?

    Dr. Zola
    I can’t do all the work for you.
  • Options

    DrZola said:

    Searmenis said:

    Garlo said:

    Good skills+good roster = BG fun & excellent rewards.

    Poor skills+good roster = BG complaints & accounts stuck in VT

    Cruel but true.

    Option #3 (the most common): Whatever Skills + Whatever Roster + BG bugs + Screen freezing - Parry - Dexterity + AI going crazy = BG complaints & Accounts stuck in VT For Eternity.
    Yeah but like Kebam Jax said everyone is facing the same issue and playing with the same conditions as it stands so all is fair in the end.
    And Jax said this precisely where?

    Dr. Zola
    I can’t do all the work for you.
    Is this what you were referencing…


  • Options
    Justin2524Justin2524 Posts: 1,626 ★★★★
    edited March 2023

    DrZola said:

    Searmenis said:

    Garlo said:

    Good skills+good roster = BG fun & excellent rewards.

    Poor skills+good roster = BG complaints & accounts stuck in VT

    Cruel but true.

    Option #3 (the most common): Whatever Skills + Whatever Roster + BG bugs + Screen freezing - Parry - Dexterity + AI going crazy = BG complaints & Accounts stuck in VT For Eternity.
    Yeah but like Kebam Jax said everyone is facing the same issue and playing with the same conditions as it stands so all is fair in the end.
    And Jax said this precisely where?

    Dr. Zola
    I can’t do all the work for you.
    Is this what you were referencing…


    Yes!

    Here’s your source @DrZola

  • Options
    Justin2524Justin2524 Posts: 1,626 ★★★★
    DrZola said:

    DrZola said:

    Searmenis said:

    Garlo said:

    Good skills+good roster = BG fun & excellent rewards.

    Poor skills+good roster = BG complaints & accounts stuck in VT

    Cruel but true.

    Option #3 (the most common): Whatever Skills + Whatever Roster + BG bugs + Screen freezing - Parry - Dexterity + AI going crazy = BG complaints & Accounts stuck in VT For Eternity.
    Yeah but like Kebam Jax said everyone is facing the same issue and playing with the same conditions as it stands so all is fair in the end.
    And Jax said this precisely where?

    Dr. Zola
    I can’t do all the work for you.
    Pathetic. Because he didn’t say it.

    Dr. Zola
    LoL .. he said it on the “BG is the Worst format” thread where you were very active in..
  • Options
    SirGamesBondSirGamesBond Posts: 4,251 ★★★★★

    Searmenis said:

    Garlo said:

    Good skills+good roster = BG fun & excellent rewards.

    Poor skills+good roster = BG complaints & accounts stuck in VT

    Cruel but true.

    Option #3 (the most common): Whatever Skills + Whatever Roster + BG bugs + Screen freezing - Parry - Dexterity + AI going crazy = BG complaints & Accounts stuck in VT For Eternity.
    Yeah but like Kebam Jax said everyone is facing the same issue and playing with the same conditions as it stands so all is fair in the end.
    Spreading misinformation is against ToS
  • Options
    Justin2524Justin2524 Posts: 1,626 ★★★★
    edited March 2023
    “The game is fair insofar as everyone is dealing with the same system”

    That’s a direct quote from Kabam Jax.

    Essentially we’re all dealing with the same systems, issues, challenges.
  • Options
    VydraVydra Posts: 125 ★★

    Emotes was unnecessary af lol. After you beat someone and emote on em, it turns from a respectful battle to a toxic matchup

    What exactly made it a “respectful” battle in the first place though? Emotes are fun. They’re only toxic if you choose to be offended by them
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    Justin2524Justin2524 Posts: 1,626 ★★★★

    Emotes was unnecessary af lol. After you beat someone and emote on em, it turns from a respectful battle to a toxic matchup

    That’s the best part of the match for me ., lol..

    Pity they’ve decided to put a timer on it., now I can’t press them repeatedly.
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    AMS94AMS94 Posts: 1,776 ★★★★★
    DrZola said:

    There is a reason rewards are “the best around” and it has zero to do with game team generosity.

    PVP requires significant participation. Alienating parts of the player base reduces that participation. Anyone thinking “well, that’s just more for me if the losers just quit” doesn’t understand how PVP works—and, arguably, Jax in his most recent post in BGs doesn’t understand it fully either. “Not for everyone” is fine until players are routinely waiting a minute or more for matchmaking.

    It’s an incredibly fun mode—if the team can get connections, bugs and matchmaking straight. Eight plus years into this game, I have my doubts…and my hopes.

    Dr. Zola

    Any game mode that comes with the disclaimer of "not for everyone" is not a well designed mode IMO

    It's different when one says that the Gladiator circuit or Diamond/Platinum tiers is not for everyone......but failure to make everyone feel welcome while playing the Victory Track is a definite failure in my eyes

    Also I am not very appreciative of Kabam's new favorite viewpoint of "players can't do everything & have to choose/prioritise stuff they want to do"
  • Options
    VydraVydra Posts: 125 ★★
    Finally a post that sees the positives in BGs. It’s been tiring scrolling through endless negative feedback about the mode and having to watch players disagree with hard truths for the sake of it.

    While agreed the mode could use some improvements to help alleviate the major troubles faced by some players as with repeated losses or constant ping pong situations in VT, I really do hope Kabam assesses the validity of some of the concerns posted. From what I have seen, it feels like the moment a player hits a losing streak, they give up and run straight for the forums to complain.

    And personally I have had several frustrating moments in BGs - 20+ matches just to clear tiers in VT, having bugs/modders in the final promotion match, going on massive losing streaks to fall from Mysterium tiers down to Gamma/Arcane. It’s been gut wrenching to go through that process but I lower expectations and keep going at it

    I have been through the shitters enough to say that and I hope players who come on here to complain take a step back and ask themselves if they’ve actually tried hard enough in BGs or if they’re simply expecting to clear Victory Track with the least games possible. And if your answer is still yes, you have my sympathy and I hope the new structure and matchmaking changes coming next season onwards help you out.
  • Options
    SearmenisSearmenis Posts: 1,545 ★★★★★
    In any case, Even if Jax was saying that everyone deals with the same bugs in the game, this is far from the truth. I don't have dexterity issues most of the time, but my parry fails 50% of the times for example. Other devices have other bugs or minor input issues or nothing at all. The game experience is Not the same for everyone, and everyone knows that for two years now.
    Making an argument based on on something that Jax didn't exactly said on something that s common knowledge, is just a mean to derail the discussion.
  • Options
    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,704 Guardian
    AMS94 said:

    DrZola said:

    There is a reason rewards are “the best around” and it has zero to do with game team generosity.

    PVP requires significant participation. Alienating parts of the player base reduces that participation. Anyone thinking “well, that’s just more for me if the losers just quit” doesn’t understand how PVP works—and, arguably, Jax in his most recent post in BGs doesn’t understand it fully either. “Not for everyone” is fine until players are routinely waiting a minute or more for matchmaking.

    It’s an incredibly fun mode—if the team can get connections, bugs and matchmaking straight. Eight plus years into this game, I have my doubts…and my hopes.

    Dr. Zola

    Any game mode that comes with the disclaimer of "not for everyone" is not a well designed mode IMO

    It's different when one says that the Gladiator circuit or Diamond/Platinum tiers is not for everyone......but failure to make everyone feel welcome while playing the Victory Track is a definite failure in my eyes

    Also I am not very appreciative of Kabam's new favorite viewpoint of "players can't do everything & have to choose/prioritise stuff they want to do"
    I don’t agree there. The presumption that every game mode can be for everyone assumes we all want the same things. But we all don’t. We all want different, often mutually exclusive things. In game design you can do one of two things. You can pick a hypothetical player and make everything work for him or her. In which case you will eventually make the game hostile towards everyone else. Or you can make each thing in the game appeal to different players, in which case you will appeal to a wider audience, at the expense of making it impossible to prevent everyone from disliking at least some part of the game. There’s no possibility of simultaneously having wide appeal and no controversial components.

    Every game mode should have wide appeal, but it does not need to have universal appeal. That’s too restrictive of a design requirement. That would mean a lot of the things most players want they will never get, because at least one other player won’t like it.

    The idea that players can’t do everything is one of those design decisions related to this. If you’re going to try to make your game appealing to a wider audience by including more variety of content and gameplay, almost by definition you will add more things to the game than any one player is likely to be able to fully participate in. Some players want a smaller game where they can do everything, but that forces the game to target a much smaller potential audience. The game appears (and has been for some time now) to be taking the option of “something for everyone” and not “everything for someone.” Personally, I’m fine with that also. The more generally appealing the game can be for a wider audience, the longer I will have the game to play. I don’t mind someone else getting what they want if it means I continue to get what I want, even if what they want is not appealing to me. That’s a reasonable trade in my opinion.
  • Options
    Justin2524Justin2524 Posts: 1,626 ★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    “The game is fair insofar as everyone is dealing with the same system”

    That’s a direct quote from Kabam Jax.

    Essentially we’re all dealing with the same systems, issues, challenges.

    I don’t think you are allowed to tack more words at the end of a quote and still attribute it to the same person. Also, you lost a word: insofar. When someone says that something is fair insofar as they don’t mean it is essentially fair. They actually mean almost the opposite. They mean if we restrict the discussion to only include the parameters of the system the game is fair.

    In other words, Jax’s statement should be read to say that it is true so long as you don’t add additional criteria, and then you added additional criteria, and in doing so you put words on Jax’s mouth: that everyone faces the same issues and challenges.
    Yeah but doesn’t the word he used “system” come with issues, conditions, and challenges in itself?

    As an example,

    “under the current MMP electoral system, some of the issues and challenges include the calculation of electoral seats to fairly represent the number of votes to be allocated to the electoral areas”

    Any system by default has issues and a challenges in itself and that goes without saying.
  • Options
    SiliyoSiliyo Posts: 1,390 ★★★★★
    Garlo said:

    Siliyo said:

    Garlo said:

    Good skills+good roster = BG fun & excellent rewards.

    Poor skills+good roster = BG complaints & accounts stuck in VT

    Cruel but true.

    You can have a “good roster” but still get screwed by RNG due to your drafts. Therefore, changing how the W/L system works will improve the BG experience altogether
    Well, that is partially true. RNG could play against you sometimes, but not always, not enough times to keep you stuck in VT for all the season.
    You do realize the emotional frustration behind the current W/L system? How are people motivated if they’re stuck in this “win 1, lose 1, win 2, lose 1” system? In a lot of cases, you’re punished for not having the preferred counter in your matchup because you were not able to draft that champion.
  • Options
    VydraVydra Posts: 125 ★★
    edited March 2023
    Siliyo said:

    Garlo said:

    Siliyo said:

    Garlo said:

    Good skills+good roster = BG fun & excellent rewards.

    Poor skills+good roster = BG complaints & accounts stuck in VT

    Cruel but true.

    You can have a “good roster” but still get screwed by RNG due to your drafts. Therefore, changing how the W/L system works will improve the BG experience altogether
    Well, that is partially true. RNG could play against you sometimes, but not always, not enough times to keep you stuck in VT for all the season.
    You do realize the emotional frustration behind the current W/L system? How are people motivated if they’re stuck in this “win 1, lose 1, win 2, lose 1” system? In a lot of cases, you’re punished for not having the preferred counter in your matchup because you were not able to draft that champion.
    The mode isn’t about having “preferred counters”. Of course in the perfect world, drafting a Wiccan to an opponent’s Hulking or drafting a Human Torch to an opponent’s Rintrah is most ideal. What happens when bans include “preferred counters”?

    More often than not, what you said is totally right. What sets apart the better players from players who are helpless without their “perfect counter” is that one group of players will find alternatives and build their deck around that thought process so they aren’t “punished”

    Take the current GC rage node for example. HT and Scorpion banned and your opponent places a Wiccan. Most will let themselves be punished. Just learnt today that Havoc handles Wiccan just as fine. Not the “perfect counter” but a very interesting counter that can only be found out through means of BGs trials and errors

    My point is, what you just quoted is part of deck strategising and takes time to craft,

    and about motivation, just look at the accumulative rewards you get from the mode. If it isn’t enough to motivate anyone, then boy am I glad we still aren’t in Season 1
  • Options
    AMS94AMS94 Posts: 1,776 ★★★★★
    edited March 2023
    DNA3000 said:

    AMS94 said:

    DrZola said:

    There is a reason rewards are “the best around” and it has zero to do with game team generosity.

    PVP requires significant participation. Alienating parts of the player base reduces that participation. Anyone thinking “well, that’s just more for me if the losers just quit” doesn’t understand how PVP works—and, arguably, Jax in his most recent post in BGs doesn’t understand it fully either. “Not for everyone” is fine until players are routinely waiting a minute or more for matchmaking.

    It’s an incredibly fun mode—if the team can get connections, bugs and matchmaking straight. Eight plus years into this game, I have my doubts…and my hopes.

    Dr. Zola

    Any game mode that comes with the disclaimer of "not for everyone" is not a well designed mode IMO

    It's different when one says that the Gladiator circuit or Diamond/Platinum tiers is not for everyone......but failure to make everyone feel welcome while playing the Victory Track is a definite failure in my eyes

    Also I am not very appreciative of Kabam's new favorite viewpoint of "players can't do everything & have to choose/prioritise stuff they want to do"
    I don’t agree there. The presumption that every game mode can be for everyone assumes we all want the same things. But we all don’t. We all want different, often mutually exclusive things. In game design you can do one of two things. You can pick a hypothetical player and make everything work for him or her. In which case you will eventually make the game hostile towards everyone else. Or you can make each thing in the game appeal to different players, in which case you will appeal to a wider audience, at the expense of making it impossible to prevent everyone from disliking at least some part of the game. There’s no possibility of simultaneously having wide appeal and no controversial components.

    Every game mode should have wide appeal, but it does not need to have universal appeal. That’s too restrictive of a design requirement. That would mean a lot of the things most players want they will never get, because at least one other player won’t like it.

    The idea that players can’t do everything is one of those design decisions related to this. If you’re going to try to make your game appealing to a wider audience by including more variety of content and gameplay, almost by definition you will add more things to the game than any one player is likely to be able to fully participate in. Some players want a smaller game where they can do everything, but that forces the game to target a much smaller potential audience. The game appears (and has been for some time now) to be taking the option of “something for everyone” and not “everything for someone.” Personally, I’m fine with that also. The more generally appealing the game can be for a wider audience, the longer I will have the game to play. I don’t mind someone else getting what they want if it means I continue to get what I want, even if what they want is not appealing to me. That’s a reasonable trade in my opinion.
    @DNA3000 u probably misunderstood my comment

    I didn't mean to imply that every game mode should "appeal" to everyone

    Appeal is a very subjective thing & obviously not all modes will appeal to all players
    Eg. Arenas & Labyrinth/Abyss style content does not appeal to me but I am perfectly fine with having those modes in the game

    My "not for everyone" remark was in reference to a recent comment saying that BGs are not for everyone.....that comment was apparently supposed to be a justification for current Victory track matchmaking

    Now the problem with using "not for everyone" in this context is that it is also excluding those players who like playing BGs but are being pushed away due to current matchmaking & medal loss criterias in VT
    BGs as a game mode appeals to such players but they aren't able to compete, thus feeling unwelcome by the game mode

    The game mode is being exclusionary by a seemingly flawed design & not bcoz it doesn't appeal to a group of players

    I agree with the idea that in Glad Circuit ur ranks should be the only matchmaking criteria....similar to AW rating
    But I feel using the same criteria for VTs is bound to push away some players who can't keep up with the top 10%


    And the "players need to prioritise what they want to play instead of being able to play everything" was in reference to Kabam's take on the situation of energy refills shortage
    IMO the increase in energy consumption should've been matched by a corresponding increase in availability of energy refills
  • Options
    DrZolaDrZola Posts: 8,561 ★★★★★
    edited March 2023
    DNA3000 said:

    “The game is fair insofar as everyone is dealing with the same system”

    That’s a direct quote from Kabam Jax.

    Essentially we’re all dealing with the same systems, issues, challenges.

    I don’t think you are allowed to tack more words at the end of a quote and still attribute it to the same person. Also, you lost a word: insofar. When someone says that something is fair insofar as they don’t mean it is essentially fair. They actually mean almost the opposite. They mean if we restrict the discussion to only include the parameters of the system the game is fair.

    In other words, Jax’s statement should be read to say that it is true so long as you don’t add additional criteria, and then you added additional criteria, and in doing so you put words on Jax’s mouth: that everyone faces the same issues and challenges.
    You are far more patient than I am. Jax didn’t say what OP claims he said, but if that’s what Jax meant, then he should clarify—because it’s quite a departure from the statement Jax provided here.

    Why is it important? Because we don’t often get game team members who took the time Jax took to attempt to explain their position on BGs, which is a hot issue right now. Misquoting, misattributing or misconstruing what he said in his post and repeating that on forums isn’t constructive to what is a fairly important conversation.

    Dr. Zola
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