Why is "AI erratic behaviour" still not in the Issue Tracker?

JefechutaJefechuta Member Posts: 1,212 ★★★★
edited May 2023 in General Discussion
I was just playing some BGs just because, and dude, BG bugs aside, AI is way different, it just not working as always used to work, it does:

erratic movements
special intercepts
special while blocking, no matter if it is me or him blocking
taunts debuffs not making AI more agressive
AI stopping a combo in the mid of it and then suddenly continuing it just in time so you cant punish it
AI doing combos right after each one without the pause you would have to do between them, so you cant punish them.
AI doing specials while stunned
AI recovery being way faster than before
AI doing combos in the air, just in the air, you dex the first mid one and the AI just continues erratically
AI holding specials or AI just rushing in all the time.
AI throwing specials in the middle of my combo

Why the hell, this is not in the Issue Tracker, I would love an explanation, it is fine to have bugs in games, its just normal, coding is what it is, sometimes it messes up sometimes it doesnt, but not even acknowledging the fact that those are happening is just outrageous.


And its amazing how this is just random, sometimes the AI works just like it used to work, and sometimes its just mayhem.
It works specially well for Story Content, but in the rest of the content its just random, completely random.
Post edited by Kabam Miike on
«1

Comments

  • Jefechuta said:

    I was just playing some BGs just because, and dude, BG bugs aside, AI is way different, it just not working as always used to work, it does:

    erratic movements
    special intercepts
    special while blocking, no matter if it is me or him blocking
    taunts debuffs not making AI more agressive
    AI stopping a combo in the mid of it and then suddenly continuing it just in time so you cant punish it
    AI doing combos right after each one without the pause you would have to do between them, so you cant punish them.
    AI doing specials while stunned
    AI recovery being way faster than before
    AI doing combos in the air, just in the air, you dex the first mid one and the AI just continues erratically
    AI holding specials or AI just rushing in all the time.
    AI throwing specials in the middle of my combo

    Why the hell, this is not in the Issue Tracker, I would love an explanation, it is fine to have bugs in games, its just normal, coding is what it is, sometimes it messes up sometimes it doesnt, but not even acknowledging the fact that those are happening is just outrageous.


    And its amazing how this is just random, sometimes the AI works just like it used to work, and sometimes its just mayhem.
    It works specially well for Story Content, but in the rest of the content its just random, completely random.

    Its just a lot more of a complicated fix than you might think, and putting it on the trello board just to get people to stop talking about it wouldn't do much in the way of helping. They've got so many bugs to fix that have no workaround with Cassie Lang, Kate Bishop, Power Shield 2.0, BG disconnecting, etc. there's just no reason to bluff it and slap it on the board as well. For now, try playing around the AI and record what you can, Kabam can't fix issues without knowing what's causing them, so it'd be really helpful.
  • BigBlueOx said:

    Jefechuta said:

    I was just playing some BGs just because, and dude, BG bugs aside, AI is way different, it just not working as always used to work, it does:

    erratic movements
    special intercepts
    special while blocking, no matter if it is me or him blocking
    taunts debuffs not making AI more agressive
    AI stopping a combo in the mid of it and then suddenly continuing it just in time so you cant punish it
    AI doing combos right after each one without the pause you would have to do between them, so you cant punish them.
    AI doing specials while stunned
    AI recovery being way faster than before
    AI doing combos in the air, just in the air, you dex the first mid one and the AI just continues erratically
    AI holding specials or AI just rushing in all the time.
    AI throwing specials in the middle of my combo

    Why the hell, this is not in the Issue Tracker, I would love an explanation, it is fine to have bugs in games, its just normal, coding is what it is, sometimes it messes up sometimes it doesnt, but not even acknowledging the fact that those are happening is just outrageous.


    And its amazing how this is just random, sometimes the AI works just like it used to work, and sometimes its just mayhem.
    It works specially well for Story Content, but in the rest of the content its just random, completely random.

    Its just a lot more of a complicated fix than you might think, and putting it on the trello board just to get people to stop talking about it wouldn't do much in the way of helping. They've got so many bugs to fix that have no workaround with Cassie Lang, Kate Bishop, Power Shield 2.0, BG disconnecting, etc. there's just no reason to bluff it and slap it on the board as well. For now, try playing around the AI and record what you can, Kabam can't fix issues without knowing what's causing them, so it'd be really helpful.
    You know this is why that Vega video front and center started with testing. It shouldn’t be an expectation passed down to the customers to play test the product.
    Then don't
  • BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    Jefechuta said:

    I was just playing some BGs just because, and dude, BG bugs aside, AI is way different, it just not working as always used to work, it does:

    erratic movements
    special intercepts
    special while blocking, no matter if it is me or him blocking
    taunts debuffs not making AI more agressive
    AI stopping a combo in the mid of it and then suddenly continuing it just in time so you cant punish it
    AI doing combos right after each one without the pause you would have to do between them, so you cant punish them.
    AI doing specials while stunned
    AI recovery being way faster than before
    AI doing combos in the air, just in the air, you dex the first mid one and the AI just continues erratically
    AI holding specials or AI just rushing in all the time.
    AI throwing specials in the middle of my combo

    Why the hell, this is not in the Issue Tracker, I would love an explanation, it is fine to have bugs in games, its just normal, coding is what it is, sometimes it messes up sometimes it doesnt, but not even acknowledging the fact that those are happening is just outrageous.


    And its amazing how this is just random, sometimes the AI works just like it used to work, and sometimes its just mayhem.
    It works specially well for Story Content, but in the rest of the content its just random, completely random.

    Its just a lot more of a complicated fix than you might think, and putting it on the trello board just to get people to stop talking about it wouldn't do much in the way of helping. They've got so many bugs to fix that have no workaround with Cassie Lang, Kate Bishop, Power Shield 2.0, BG disconnecting, etc. there's just no reason to bluff it and slap it on the board as well. For now, try playing around the AI and record what you can, Kabam can't fix issues without knowing what's causing them, so it'd be really helpful.
    You know this is why that Vega video front and center started with testing. It shouldn’t be an expectation passed down to the customers to play test the product.
    Then don't
    How’s the white knight excuse cape fit? Is it snug? Does come with a membership card?
    If you want it fixed, you have ways of helping. If you don't wanna help, then don't. Its just that simple. Kabam isn't asking you to do anything, but just complaining isn't gonna get us anywhere, so I'm asking. If you don't wanna, you can move on.
  • klobberintymeklobberintyme Member Posts: 1,588 ★★★★
    edited May 2023
    Bo2loz said:

    One would expect a profitable corporation to maintain/test thier own product
    While we here as players do sometimes help point out issues, it shouldn't be expected of us

    "Profitable" is subjective.

    https://www.pocketgamer.biz/news/81552/netmarble-drew-84-of-its-revenue-from-overseas-sources-in-q1-2023/

    MCOC does indeed generate revenue, however it's also responsible for propping up an overall lackluster kabam unit and a poor performer in parent Netmarble. That's a lot of heavy lifting, revenue-wise.

    But hey, jackpot world!
  • HungaryHippoHungaryHippo Member Posts: 1,054 ★★★★
    Bo2loz said:

    Bo2loz said:

    One would expect a profitable corporation to maintain/test thier own product
    While we here as players do sometimes help point out issues, it shouldn't be expected of us

    "Profitable" is subjective.

    https://www.pocketgamer.biz/news/81552/netmarble-drew-84-of-its-revenue-from-overseas-sources-in-q1-2023/

    MCOC does indeed generate revenue, however it's also responsible for propping up an overall lackluster kabam unit and a poor performer in parent Netmarble. That's a lot of heavy lifting, revenue-wise.

    But hey, jackpot world!
    I mean that sound like kabam's problem?
    Again I don't mind helping out when i can with a ticket or a bug report but they have to test they own stuff first
    Remember the Switch Quicksilver synergy when it came out
    All it would have taken to notice the issue was just playing 2 matches but -i assume- no one did that until release (because otherwise its a predatory business practice)
    You're assuming they play the game at the same level we do. I highly doubt any real technical Kabam employees are even close to the average skilled Paragon player.
  • I_tell_no_tales_1I_tell_no_tales_1 Member Posts: 1,198 ★★★★

    Bo2loz said:

    Bo2loz said:

    One would expect a profitable corporation to maintain/test thier own product
    While we here as players do sometimes help point out issues, it shouldn't be expected of us

    "Profitable" is subjective.

    https://www.pocketgamer.biz/news/81552/netmarble-drew-84-of-its-revenue-from-overseas-sources-in-q1-2023/

    MCOC does indeed generate revenue, however it's also responsible for propping up an overall lackluster kabam unit and a poor performer in parent Netmarble. That's a lot of heavy lifting, revenue-wise.

    But hey, jackpot world!
    I mean that sound like kabam's problem?
    Again I don't mind helping out when i can with a ticket or a bug report but they have to test they own stuff first
    Remember the Switch Quicksilver synergy when it came out
    All it would have taken to notice the issue was just playing 2 matches but -i assume- no one did that until release (because otherwise its a predatory business practice)
    You're assuming they play the game at the same level we do. I highly doubt any real technical Kabam employees are even close to the average skilled Paragon player.
    I mean there have been many bugs that even below average players would notice if they play
    I doubt that Kabam even has a testing team to test champs/buffs before sending them live
    I mean Hawkeye buff can be a prime example
    They didn't knew it wasn't working as intended until the playerbase told them

  • BigBlueOxBigBlueOx Member Posts: 2,370 ★★★★★
    Mackey said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    Jefechuta said:

    I was just playing some BGs just because, and dude, BG bugs aside, AI is way different, it just not working as always used to work, it does:

    erratic movements
    special intercepts
    special while blocking, no matter if it is me or him blocking
    taunts debuffs not making AI more agressive
    AI stopping a combo in the mid of it and then suddenly continuing it just in time so you cant punish it
    AI doing combos right after each one without the pause you would have to do between them, so you cant punish them.
    AI doing specials while stunned
    AI recovery being way faster than before
    AI doing combos in the air, just in the air, you dex the first mid one and the AI just continues erratically
    AI holding specials or AI just rushing in all the time.
    AI throwing specials in the middle of my combo

    Why the hell, this is not in the Issue Tracker, I would love an explanation, it is fine to have bugs in games, its just normal, coding is what it is, sometimes it messes up sometimes it doesnt, but not even acknowledging the fact that those are happening is just outrageous.


    And its amazing how this is just random, sometimes the AI works just like it used to work, and sometimes its just mayhem.
    It works specially well for Story Content, but in the rest of the content its just random, completely random.

    Its just a lot more of a complicated fix than you might think, and putting it on the trello board just to get people to stop talking about it wouldn't do much in the way of helping. They've got so many bugs to fix that have no workaround with Cassie Lang, Kate Bishop, Power Shield 2.0, BG disconnecting, etc. there's just no reason to bluff it and slap it on the board as well. For now, try playing around the AI and record what you can, Kabam can't fix issues without knowing what's causing them, so it'd be really helpful.
    You know this is why that Vega video front and center started with testing. It shouldn’t be an expectation passed down to the customers to play test the product.
    Then don't
    How’s the white knight excuse cape fit? Is it snug? Does come with a membership card?
    If you want it fixed, you have ways of helping. If you don't wanna help, then don't. Its just that simple. Kabam isn't asking you to do anything, but just complaining isn't gonna get us anywhere, so I'm asking. If you don't wanna, you can move on.
    I've got countless videos showing the issues, I've created threads on certain interactions and tagged mods to say I have videos to show it as well as commenting on other threads saying i have videos showing it yet not once have they reached out for them.videos or even acknowledged that theyre interested in them and on top of all that we cannot upload videos to these forums anyway. In my own opinion, they're not bothered about it and are trying to stay quiet on the topic
    This 100%. It’s why the initial comment is so tiresome and tone deaf.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited May 2023
    Mackey said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    Jefechuta said:

    I was just playing some BGs just because, and dude, BG bugs aside, AI is way different, it just not working as always used to work, it does:

    erratic movements
    special intercepts
    special while blocking, no matter if it is me or him blocking
    taunts debuffs not making AI more agressive
    AI stopping a combo in the mid of it and then suddenly continuing it just in time so you cant punish it
    AI doing combos right after each one without the pause you would have to do between them, so you cant punish them.
    AI doing specials while stunned
    AI recovery being way faster than before
    AI doing combos in the air, just in the air, you dex the first mid one and the AI just continues erratically
    AI holding specials or AI just rushing in all the time.
    AI throwing specials in the middle of my combo

    Why the hell, this is not in the Issue Tracker, I would love an explanation, it is fine to have bugs in games, its just normal, coding is what it is, sometimes it messes up sometimes it doesnt, but not even acknowledging the fact that those are happening is just outrageous.


    And its amazing how this is just random, sometimes the AI works just like it used to work, and sometimes its just mayhem.
    It works specially well for Story Content, but in the rest of the content its just random, completely random.

    Its just a lot more of a complicated fix than you might think, and putting it on the trello board just to get people to stop talking about it wouldn't do much in the way of helping. They've got so many bugs to fix that have no workaround with Cassie Lang, Kate Bishop, Power Shield 2.0, BG disconnecting, etc. there's just no reason to bluff it and slap it on the board as well. For now, try playing around the AI and record what you can, Kabam can't fix issues without knowing what's causing them, so it'd be really helpful.
    You know this is why that Vega video front and center started with testing. It shouldn’t be an expectation passed down to the customers to play test the product.
    Then don't
    How’s the white knight excuse cape fit? Is it snug? Does come with a membership card?
    If you want it fixed, you have ways of helping. If you don't wanna help, then don't. Its just that simple. Kabam isn't asking you to do anything, but just complaining isn't gonna get us anywhere, so I'm asking. If you don't wanna, you can move on.
    I've got countless videos showing the issues, I've created threads on certain interactions and tagged mods to say I have videos to show it as well as commenting on other threads saying i have videos showing it yet not once have they reached out for them.videos or even acknowledged that theyre interested in them and on top of all that we cannot upload videos to these forums anyway. In my own opinion, they're not bothered about it and are trying to stay quiet on the topic
    But it's just that. An opinion. Yes, it's a horrible system to have forum moderators that can't say anything about anything without asking a thousand people first, but they still read countless threads without commenting on or interacting with them. They might be bothered about it or they might not, so keep doing what you can and just hope they listen. Or don't.

    Being so anti Kabam is a beautiful thing, but this thread could've easily been dedicated to people saying "I was reparried by (champion) on node X in AW. I was using (champion) and I don't believe there was any reason this should've happened, or any reasonable way it could've been avoided."

    Instead, people decided that general complaints and the same "tech company should do tech company things more" that we hear about every bug under the sun is a better use of their time. You wanna hold Kabam accountable? Stop just saying "Kabam sucks" and keep proving to them that there's something they need to fix. Or don't.
  • raviXsharmaraviXsharma Member Posts: 572 ★★★

    Mackey said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    Jefechuta said:

    I was just playing some BGs just because, and dude, BG bugs aside, AI is way different, it just not working as always used to work, it does:

    erratic movements
    special intercepts
    special while blocking, no matter if it is me or him blocking
    taunts debuffs not making AI more agressive
    AI stopping a combo in the mid of it and then suddenly continuing it just in time so you cant punish it
    AI doing combos right after each one without the pause you would have to do between them, so you cant punish them.
    AI doing specials while stunned
    AI recovery being way faster than before
    AI doing combos in the air, just in the air, you dex the first mid one and the AI just continues erratically
    AI holding specials or AI just rushing in all the time.
    AI throwing specials in the middle of my combo

    Why the hell, this is not in the Issue Tracker, I would love an explanation, it is fine to have bugs in games, its just normal, coding is what it is, sometimes it messes up sometimes it doesnt, but not even acknowledging the fact that those are happening is just outrageous.


    And its amazing how this is just random, sometimes the AI works just like it used to work, and sometimes its just mayhem.
    It works specially well for Story Content, but in the rest of the content its just random, completely random.

    Its just a lot more of a complicated fix than you might think, and putting it on the trello board just to get people to stop talking about it wouldn't do much in the way of helping. They've got so many bugs to fix that have no workaround with Cassie Lang, Kate Bishop, Power Shield 2.0, BG disconnecting, etc. there's just no reason to bluff it and slap it on the board as well. For now, try playing around the AI and record what you can, Kabam can't fix issues without knowing what's causing them, so it'd be really helpful.
    You know this is why that Vega video front and center started with testing. It shouldn’t be an expectation passed down to the customers to play test the product.
    Then don't
    How’s the white knight excuse cape fit? Is it snug? Does come with a membership card?
    If you want it fixed, you have ways of helping. If you don't wanna help, then don't. Its just that simple. Kabam isn't asking you to do anything, but just complaining isn't gonna get us anywhere, so I'm asking. If you don't wanna, you can move on.
    I've got countless videos showing the issues, I've created threads on certain interactions and tagged mods to say I have videos to show it as well as commenting on other threads saying i have videos showing it yet not once have they reached out for them.videos or even acknowledged that theyre interested in them and on top of all that we cannot upload videos to these forums anyway. In my own opinion, they're not bothered about it and are trying to stay quiet on the topic
    But it's just that. An opinion. Yes, it's a horrible system to have forum moderators that can't say anything about anything without asking a thousand people first, but they still read countless threads without commenting on or interacting with them. They might be bothered about it or they might not, so keep doing what you can and just hope they listen. Or don't.

    Being so anti Kabam is a beautiful thing, but this thread could've easily been dedicated to people saying "I was reparried by (champion) on node X in AW. I was using (champion) and I don't believe there was any reason this should've happened, or any reasonable way it could've been avoided."

    Instead, people decided that general complaints and the same "tech company should do tech company things more" that we hear about every bug under the sun is a better use of their time. You wanna hold Kabam accountable? Stop just saying "Kabam sucks" and keep proving to them that there's something they need to fix. Or don't.
    Theres posts I have seen where people have done that. Now what? Any fixes? Nope. What you are saying is correct and some people are also following it but this is true kabam has not addressed the issue and people like OP have been frustrated with all the issues addressed above
  • LacerosLaceros Member Posts: 106 ★★
    Im cool with special intercepts, makes you have to be more cautious. Fun
  • Wozzle007Wozzle007 Member Posts: 1,034 ★★★★★
    When I first started playing the AI never used to hold block, keep holding it, you dash in to hit there block to get the fight actually going, then they light intercept, combo you and special you to oblivion.
  • Mackey said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    Jefechuta said:

    I was just playing some BGs just because, and dude, BG bugs aside, AI is way different, it just not working as always used to work, it does:

    erratic movements
    special intercepts
    special while blocking, no matter if it is me or him blocking
    taunts debuffs not making AI more agressive
    AI stopping a combo in the mid of it and then suddenly continuing it just in time so you cant punish it
    AI doing combos right after each one without the pause you would have to do between them, so you cant punish them.
    AI doing specials while stunned
    AI recovery being way faster than before
    AI doing combos in the air, just in the air, you dex the first mid one and the AI just continues erratically
    AI holding specials or AI just rushing in all the time.
    AI throwing specials in the middle of my combo

    Why the hell, this is not in the Issue Tracker, I would love an explanation, it is fine to have bugs in games, its just normal, coding is what it is, sometimes it messes up sometimes it doesnt, but not even acknowledging the fact that those are happening is just outrageous.


    And its amazing how this is just random, sometimes the AI works just like it used to work, and sometimes its just mayhem.
    It works specially well for Story Content, but in the rest of the content its just random, completely random.

    Its just a lot more of a complicated fix than you might think, and putting it on the trello board just to get people to stop talking about it wouldn't do much in the way of helping. They've got so many bugs to fix that have no workaround with Cassie Lang, Kate Bishop, Power Shield 2.0, BG disconnecting, etc. there's just no reason to bluff it and slap it on the board as well. For now, try playing around the AI and record what you can, Kabam can't fix issues without knowing what's causing them, so it'd be really helpful.
    You know this is why that Vega video front and center started with testing. It shouldn’t be an expectation passed down to the customers to play test the product.
    Then don't
    How’s the white knight excuse cape fit? Is it snug? Does come with a membership card?
    If you want it fixed, you have ways of helping. If you don't wanna help, then don't. Its just that simple. Kabam isn't asking you to do anything, but just complaining isn't gonna get us anywhere, so I'm asking. If you don't wanna, you can move on.
    I've got countless videos showing the issues, I've created threads on certain interactions and tagged mods to say I have videos to show it as well as commenting on other threads saying i have videos showing it yet not once have they reached out for them.videos or even acknowledged that theyre interested in them and on top of all that we cannot upload videos to these forums anyway. In my own opinion, they're not bothered about it and are trying to stay quiet on the topic
    But it's just that. An opinion. Yes, it's a horrible system to have forum moderators that can't say anything about anything without asking a thousand people first, but they still read countless threads without commenting on or interacting with them. They might be bothered about it or they might not, so keep doing what you can and just hope they listen. Or don't.

    Being so anti Kabam is a beautiful thing, but this thread could've easily been dedicated to people saying "I was reparried by (champion) on node X in AW. I was using (champion) and I don't believe there was any reason this should've happened, or any reasonable way it could've been avoided."

    Instead, people decided that general complaints and the same "tech company should do tech company things more" that we hear about every bug under the sun is a better use of their time. You wanna hold Kabam accountable? Stop just saying "Kabam sucks" and keep proving to them that there's something they need to fix. Or don't.
    Theres posts I have seen where people have done that. Now what? Any fixes? Nope. What you are saying is correct and some people are also following it but this is true kabam has not addressed the issue and people like OP have been frustrated with all the issues addressed above
    And those posts are drowned out by the multitudes of generic "fix your ****" posts that flood the forums every day. I'm not claiming that people aren't trying to help, but people are so unaware of how unhelpful and often intrusive it is to keep saying the AI is bad without providing legitimate conversation or evidence.

    Over the past week I've seen many posts claiming that the opponent has thrown their specials without even a bar of power or has reparried them when striking into their block with a combo, but I have yet to see a video of either of those actually happening. Not in my own gameplay, not in the hundreds of hours of YouTube videos and livestreams from Seatin, Brain Grant, Karatemike, etc. and especially not here on the forums. It's impossible to fix either of those things without a solid cause, and the executives at Kabam aren't going to drop tens of millions of dollars hiring beta testers.

    So if players are encountering issues and have any desire for them to be fixed, there are ways of making that happen, and complaining that it hasn't happened yet when contributing nothing but agreement or disagreement to the issue just isn't helpful. Like I said from the beginning: if you don't want to do it, then don't. But if you would like to contribute, then anything from a description of who you were fighting and where to a video of the interaction happening could go a long way.

    Just look at the Cassie Lang thread. People wanted her to be fixed, so they made a dedicated thread to the issue, provided video evidence and lists and descriptions of each issue and their likely cause. Kabam responded saying they already knew of some of her issues and were working on a fix, but due to the videos shown in the thread, they found another issue and began working on that as well. How could Kabam possibly put that same amount of work into an issue as convoluted as this one when generic "AI is bad please fix" requests are being pushed to the top page every day?
  • Wozzle007Wozzle007 Member Posts: 1,034 ★★★★★
    I think the point is, if it’s not on the bug tracker, is the AI issue that we the players are seeing and showing Kabam, acknowledged by Kabam as something that needs to be fixed? We often joke, the bugs are the game working as intended, but unless Kabam acknowledge there is an issue this might actually be the game working as Kabam intends it.
  • Searmenis said:

    Let s stop posting everything in the forums then, except for helpful videos showing how AI reacts. No polls, no gameplay or funny stuff, nothing, because kabam ppl can't find the useful threads in the jungle of all the other conversations.

    See, and twisting my words like that is just as helpful as doing the same nothing at all
  • Wozzle007 said:

    I think the point is, if it’s not on the bug tracker, is the AI issue that we the players are seeing and showing Kabam, acknowledged by Kabam as something that needs to be fixed? We often joke, the bugs are the game working as intended, but unless Kabam acknowledge there is an issue this might actually be the game working as Kabam intends it.

    If it's not on the bug tracker, it just means they haven't addressed it yet. The point should be: if this is working as Kabam intends it, how do we show them that their intents need to change?
  • MackeyMackey Member Posts: 1,597 ★★★★★

    Wozzle007 said:

    I think the point is, if it’s not on the bug tracker, is the AI issue that we the players are seeing and showing Kabam, acknowledged by Kabam as something that needs to be fixed? We often joke, the bugs are the game working as intended, but unless Kabam acknowledge there is an issue this might actually be the game working as Kabam intends it.

    If it's not on the bug tracker, it just means they haven't addressed it yet. The point should be: if this is working as Kabam intends it, how do we show them that their intents need to change?
    Or "if this is working as intended then why don't they confirm as much"
This discussion has been closed.