forced to tank in bg's

Mike_II · July 2023

i am a low thronebreaker player with one single 6* champion at r3, the last 2 seasons of bg's i managed to push to platinum 3 at which point i started to get matched with players that were way above my progression level (paragons) with multiple 7* and maxed 6* champs, there really is no way to progress beyond that point, this season i managed to get to gold 1 within the first week but now if i don't want to end my bg's season 3 weeks early and still be able to get battle chips from solo quests i am being forced to throw matches to not get to platinum 3, this isn't fun and i wish kabam actually made it possible for me to progress in the game beyond an arbitrary "f*ck you" point that only screws up smaller accounts

Colinwhitworth69 · July 2023

After you reach your level of ability, you can play for the participation objectives, but you'll find it challenging to keep progressing, by design. The competition favours better players with bigger rosters, as it should.

Keep in mind that even good players with big rosters reach a point in which they cannot progress, because of skill differences and even bigger rosters.

Mike_II · July 2023

Colinwhitworth69 said:
After you reach your level of ability, you can play for the participation objectives, but you'll find it challenging to keep progressing, by design. The competition favours better players with bigger rosters, as it should.

Keep in mind that even good players with big rosters reach a point in which they cannot progress, because of skill differences and even bigger rosters.

i am so done with that argument, if i really pushed it i would have been in platinum 3 by day 4 of the season, at that point matchmaking stops being fair, my season would have ended in DAY 4 if i didn't start throwing matches, and i would argue that the gamemode is poorly designed if by day 4 of the season i can only participate for 600 battlechips every 2 days because progressing further or winning a single match is impossible, and that's if even find it worth it to lose my time losing 3 matches every 2 days, it's not hecking worth it
not to mention it would also tank my solo and alliance event scores

Coppin · July 2023

Its a competition, congratulations on being TB, unfortunately the game allows even Cavs to have stronger rosters than a brand new TB with 1 6r3...
Knowing its a competition, and the fact that there are A LOT of players with stronger rosters... What do you suggest its done?...
Its not a quest, its not an event its a PVP competition and you got a weaker roster, how can they accomodate you more than they have?

XFREEDOMX · July 2023

Here we go again! I swear Kabam shouldn't have spoon-fed newer players!
Also OP I bet you did not come here to complain. When you were matched up with a smaller account than yours. did you?

willrun4adonut · July 2023

Or you can always spend on victory shields since it means that much to you.

Furrymoosen · July 2023

Time to open matchmaking from the start or just accept what you can get.

You’re competing for the same rewards as everyone else, you shouldn’t get a free ride to those same rewards just because you don’t want it to be too hard. So long as BGs exist in their current structure you are going to have to face accounts bigger than yours.

There’s been plenty of Cav accounts making it into the diamond ranks. Just need to get lucky with matchmaking.

Colinwhitworth69 · July 2023

Mike_II said:

Colinwhitworth69 said:
After you reach your level of ability, you can play for the participation objectives, but you'll find it challenging to keep progressing, by design. The competition favours better players with bigger rosters, as it should.

Keep in mind that even good players with big rosters reach a point in which they cannot progress, because of skill differences and even bigger rosters.
i am so done with that argument, if i really pushed it i would have been in platinum 3 by day 4 of the season, at that point matchmaking stops being fair, my season would have ended in DAY 4 if i didn't start throwing matches, and i would argue that the gamemode is poorly designed if by day 4 of the season i can only participate for 600 battlechips every 2 days because progressing further or winning a single match is impossible, and that's if even find it worth it to lose my time losing 3 matches every 2 days, it's not hecking worth it
not to mention it would also tank my solo and alliance event scores

The speed at which you attack content is up to you. I approach it more casually, mostly playing when there are open objectives.

I agree that participation rewards are not much and limited by timers, but that's also by design. Can you imagine the amount of tanking that would happen if you could get endless participation rewards?

Keep building your roster and skills and try to get further next month. Or rage quit. Or whatever. You've reached your ceiling for the month, so up to you whether to keep banging your head.

Ironman3000 · July 2023

Mike_II said:

Colinwhitworth69 said:
After you reach your level of ability, you can play for the participation objectives, but you'll find it challenging to keep progressing, by design. The competition favours better players with bigger rosters, as it should.

Keep in mind that even good players with big rosters reach a point in which they cannot progress, because of skill differences and even bigger rosters.
i am so done with that argument, if i really pushed it i would have been in platinum 3 by day 4 of the season, at that point matchmaking stops being fair, my season would have ended in DAY 4 if i didn't start throwing matches, and i would argue that the gamemode is poorly designed if by day 4 of the season i can only participate for 600 battlechips every 2 days because progressing further or winning a single match is impossible, and that's if even find it worth it to lose my time losing 3 matches every 2 days, it's not hecking worth it
not to mention it would also tank my solo and alliance event scores

What, exactly, is 'fair' about avoiding higher accounts and getting to Plat 3 artificially?

Kpratish1997 · July 2023

Dude, i am a paragon with 10 rank 4 six stars,3 seven stars and rank 3s exceeding 50, and even i am stuck at plat 2.
There are many who are even lower.
You will get matched with players in your tier. Kabam can't do anything about it. Stop complaining about everything.

BitterSteel · July 2023

@Mike_II i have a question. If there were a casual matchmaking queue you could join, which doesn’t give you any points in Victory track (or gladiator circuit), but still counted towards your daily objectives would that solve your issue?

Because once you get to this matchmaking wall, it’s hard to get the daily objectives, so you don’t want to hit the wall on purpose.

What I’m thinking is if you could push as high as possible in VT, but then once you hit this wall, you switch to joining a casual matchmaker which matches you with similar accounts to do your daily objectives for the rest of the season. Would that solve the issue?

Coppin · July 2023

BitterSteel said:
@Mike_II i have a question. If there were a casual matchmaking queue you could join, which doesn’t give you any points in Victory track (or gladiator circuit), but still counted towards your daily objectives would that solve your issue?

Because once you get to this matchmaking wall, it’s hard to get the daily objectives, so you don’t want to hit the wall on purpose.

What I’m thinking is if you could push as high as possible in VT, but then once you hit this wall, you switch to joining a casual matchmaker which matches you with similar accounts to do your daily objectives for the rest of the season. Would that solve the issue?

Like getting objectives done with practice fights? 🤔

BitterSteel · July 2023

Coppin said:

BitterSteel said:
@Mike_II i have a question. If there were a casual matchmaking queue you could join, which doesn’t give you any points in Victory track (or gladiator circuit), but still counted towards your daily objectives would that solve your issue?

Because once you get to this matchmaking wall, it’s hard to get the daily objectives, so you don’t want to hit the wall on purpose.

What I’m thinking is if you could push as high as possible in VT, but then once you hit this wall, you switch to joining a casual matchmaker which matches you with similar accounts to do your daily objectives for the rest of the season. Would that solve the issue?
Like getting objectives done with practice fights? 🤔

We don’t get objectives done with practice matches because they’re exploitable.

You can’t exploit a casual queue any more than the one that is the exact same as the GC/VT queue.

Coppin · July 2023

BitterSteel said:

Coppin said:

BitterSteel said:
@Mike_II i have a question. If there were a casual matchmaking queue you could join, which doesn’t give you any points in Victory track (or gladiator circuit), but still counted towards your daily objectives would that solve your issue?

Because once you get to this matchmaking wall, it’s hard to get the daily objectives, so you don’t want to hit the wall on purpose.

What I’m thinking is if you could push as high as possible in VT, but then once you hit this wall, you switch to joining a casual matchmaker which matches you with similar accounts to do your daily objectives for the rest of the season. Would that solve the issue?
Like getting objectives done with practice fights? 🤔
We don’t get objectives done with practice matches because they’re exploitable.

You can’t exploit a casual queue any more than the one that is the exact same as the GC/VT queue.

I meant other objectives not BG ones... They kinda stopped them too; but back in the day a player could get objectives for targeted champs from practice fights in their own roster...
That's why i asked, it would be exploitable and easy to just complete objectives and scoop in 1200 trophies every 48hs

BitterSteel · July 2023

Coppin said:

BitterSteel said:

Coppin said:

BitterSteel said:
@Mike_II i have a question. If there were a casual matchmaking queue you could join, which doesn’t give you any points in Victory track (or gladiator circuit), but still counted towards your daily objectives would that solve your issue?

Because once you get to this matchmaking wall, it’s hard to get the daily objectives, so you don’t want to hit the wall on purpose.

What I’m thinking is if you could push as high as possible in VT, but then once you hit this wall, you switch to joining a casual matchmaker which matches you with similar accounts to do your daily objectives for the rest of the season. Would that solve the issue?
Like getting objectives done with practice fights? 🤔
We don’t get objectives done with practice matches because they’re exploitable.

You can’t exploit a casual queue any more than the one that is the exact same as the GC/VT queue.
I meant other objectives not BG ones... They kinda stopped them too; but back in the day a player could get objectives for targeted champs from practice fights in their own roster...
That's why i asked, it would be exploitable and easy to just complete objectives and scoop in 1200 trophies every 48hs

That’s not what I suggested, no.

I mean a causal queue that you could queue up when you don’t want your result to effect your rank in VT or GC, but you could also use to gain the “Win 3 BG matches” for the objectives that give tokens.

GroundedWisdom · July 2023

No one is forced to manipulate the system. It's a choice. There are Rewards for earning Wins with Marks. That doesn't mean people are forced, or even meant, to get them all

A_Fungi · July 2023

For all of the smaller accounts that complain about competing against larger accounts in BGs

1) I think you should be happy Kabam doesn't make it 1 competition pool starting in bronze 3, you are after all getting the same rewards for moving through the ranks as higher accounts are

2) If you want to only face smaller accounts, wouldn't it make sense for you to get smaller rewards? You are basically wanting a progression restriction on who you face. So shouldn't the rewards you are eligible for also be progression restricted?

3) Expecting the same rewards as larger accounts for never having to face them is kinda crazy.

I genuinely felt bad when I got paired with people with mostly 5 stars in their deck. It isn't fun for me to fight against a roster like that, but it is nice to quickly move through p2+.

horrendous_too · July 2023

BitterSteel said:

Coppin said:

BitterSteel said:

Coppin said:

BitterSteel said:
@Mike_II i have a question. If there were a casual matchmaking queue you could join, which doesn’t give you any points in Victory track (or gladiator circuit), but still counted towards your daily objectives would that solve your issue?

Because once you get to this matchmaking wall, it’s hard to get the daily objectives, so you don’t want to hit the wall on purpose.

What I’m thinking is if you could push as high as possible in VT, but then once you hit this wall, you switch to joining a casual matchmaker which matches you with similar accounts to do your daily objectives for the rest of the season. Would that solve the issue?
Like getting objectives done with practice fights? 🤔
We don’t get objectives done with practice matches because they’re exploitable.

You can’t exploit a casual queue any more than the one that is the exact same as the GC/VT queue.
I meant other objectives not BG ones... They kinda stopped them too; but back in the day a player could get objectives for targeted champs from practice fights in their own roster...
That's why i asked, it would be exploitable and easy to just complete objectives and scoop in 1200 trophies every 48hs
That’s not what I suggested, no.

I mean a causal queue that you could queue up when you don’t want your result to effect your rank in VT or GC, but you could also use to gain the “Win 3 BG matches” for the objectives that give tokens.

Personally I would love that. I mean I generally don't hit any walls until somewhere in GC. But the ability to screw around and try different options in the meta without trying to line up friendlies would be amazing. Could even add some minor rewards to it, like 5 TT for a win or something. Something like we used to have with 1v1 "arena".

Greekhit · July 2023

BitterSteel said:

Coppin said:

BitterSteel said:
@Mike_II i have a question. If there were a casual matchmaking queue you could join, which doesn’t give you any points in Victory track (or gladiator circuit), but still counted towards your daily objectives would that solve your issue?

Because once you get to this matchmaking wall, it’s hard to get the daily objectives, so you don’t want to hit the wall on purpose.

What I’m thinking is if you could push as high as possible in VT, but then once you hit this wall, you switch to joining a casual matchmaker which matches you with similar accounts to do your daily objectives for the rest of the season. Would that solve the issue?
Like getting objectives done with practice fights? 🤔
We don’t get objectives done with practice matches because they’re exploitable.

You can’t exploit a casual queue any more than the one that is the exact same as the GC/VT queue.

We don’t get objectives done with practice matches, not because they are exploitable, but because objectives are there to encourage participation in the competitive part of BGs.
As for the OP complain, I’ve had warned for this complains wave from lower accounts months before, back when the BGs matchmaking discussion was the hottest topic in forums.
Kabam spoiled lower accounts with the Prestige matchmaking for so long, and now they are entitled to getting higher VT tiers or even GC rewards, like they used to, for the several previous seasons.

DNA3000 · July 2023

Mike_II said:

Colinwhitworth69 said:
After you reach your level of ability, you can play for the participation objectives, but you'll find it challenging to keep progressing, by design. The competition favours better players with bigger rosters, as it should.

Keep in mind that even good players with big rosters reach a point in which they cannot progress, because of skill differences and even bigger rosters.
i am so done with that argument, if i really pushed it i would have been in platinum 3 by day 4 of the season, at that point matchmaking stops being fair

Correction: match making starts being fair.

Frankly, I don't care how many people are "done" with this argument. This is not an argument. This is simply the truth. VT doesn't need to exist. BG could be a straight up competition with just the GC. That would be completely fair. Everyone would get matched by rating alone, which is how all similar open tournaments work (see: Chess). Instead, the VT was added to be an unfair component of the mode that was slanted towards lower progress players. In VT, matching is not done by ELO, it is done initially by roster strength. This is *not fair* in a competitive mode, because it shields lower progress players from the true strength of their surrounding competition. However, this is done to promote participation.

VT balances participation and competition by allowing this matching shield up to about Platinum, whereupon that shield disappears and players become more exposed to surrounding competition, to transition them eventually to GC where matching is ELO- only.

Anyone who thinks VT punishes lower roster players because it is "unfair" should consider that VT is the exception, not the rule. It would be perfectly fair if VT was eliminated and everyone matched by ELO. No one argues that ELO matching is unfair in open tournament competitions. That's literally the standard by which fairness is judged.

VT "punishes" lower roster players when they reach Platinum and have to compete against everyone. GC would punish them from match #1, because everyone has to compete against everyone else in GC, just like in any other ELO-driven competitive ladder style competition.

Coppin · July 2023

BitterSteel said:

Coppin said:

BitterSteel said:

Coppin said:

BitterSteel said:
@Mike_II i have a question. If there were a casual matchmaking queue you could join, which doesn’t give you any points in Victory track (or gladiator circuit), but still counted towards your daily objectives would that solve your issue?

Because once you get to this matchmaking wall, it’s hard to get the daily objectives, so you don’t want to hit the wall on purpose.

What I’m thinking is if you could push as high as possible in VT, but then once you hit this wall, you switch to joining a casual matchmaker which matches you with similar accounts to do your daily objectives for the rest of the season. Would that solve the issue?
Like getting objectives done with practice fights? 🤔
We don’t get objectives done with practice matches because they’re exploitable.

You can’t exploit a casual queue any more than the one that is the exact same as the GC/VT queue.
I meant other objectives not BG ones... They kinda stopped them too; but back in the day a player could get objectives for targeted champs from practice fights in their own roster...
That's why i asked, it would be exploitable and easy to just complete objectives and scoop in 1200 trophies every 48hs
That’s not what I suggested, no.

I mean a causal queue that you could queue up when you don’t want your result to effect your rank in VT or GC, but you could also use to gain the “Win 3 BG matches” for the objectives that give tokens.

Hmmm could work.. exploitable as well though but that's on the player not the system.

DNA3000 said:

Mike_II said:

Colinwhitworth69 said:
After you reach your level of ability, you can play for the participation objectives, but you'll find it challenging to keep progressing, by design. The competition favours better players with bigger rosters, as it should.

Keep in mind that even good players with big rosters reach a point in which they cannot progress, because of skill differences and even bigger rosters.
i am so done with that argument, if i really pushed it i would have been in platinum 3 by day 4 of the season, at that point matchmaking stops being fair
Correction: match making starts being fair.

Frankly, I don't care how many people are "done" with this argument. This is not an argument. This is simply the truth. VT doesn't need to exist. BG could be a straight up competition with just the GC. That would be completely fair. Everyone would get matched by rating alone, which is how all similar open tournaments work (see: Chess). Instead, the VT was added to be an unfair component of the mode that was slanted towards lower progress players. In VT, matching is not done by ELO, it is done initially by roster strength. This is *not fair* in a competitive mode, because it shields lower progress players from the true strength of their surrounding competition. However, this is done to promote participation.

VT balances participation and competition by allowing this matching shield up to about Platinum, whereupon that shield disappears and players become more exposed to surrounding competition, to transition them eventually to GC where matching is ELO- only.

Anyone who thinks VT punishes lower roster players because it is "unfair" should consider that VT is the exception, not the rule. It would be perfectly fair if VT was eliminated and everyone matched by ELO. No one argues that ELO matching is unfair in open tournament competitions. That's literally the standard by which fairness is judged.

VT "punishes" lower roster players when they reach Platinum and have to compete against everyone. GC would punish them from match #1, because everyone has to compete against everyone else in GC, just like in any other ELO-driven competitive ladder style competition.

Give them a hand and they will take a whole arm...
I repeat almost 10 seasons and still trying to accomodate lower people in what was supposed to be the most competitive PVP mode

forced to tank in bg's

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