Carina Challenge Compromise

PolygonPolygon Member Posts: 4,556 ★★★★★
Feel like this issue hasn’t garnered enough recognition from the team. As we all know it has really divided the playerbase, especially with its bad timing of being introduced following one of the worst fights we’ve seen in woe Abs.

There’s been several valid points made across many different threads, So I don’t really think its necessary to regurgitate them all.

One thing thats worth mentioning is that when the EOP and Gauntlet originally launched, even though it was only r3 that was accessible at the time, the revive farm and energy farm was still out, so that reasoning cant really be applied (Karate Mike tried using that in a lot of his comments responding to feedback).

Also obviously the lack of resources to rank all the champs and signature stones for Avengers/Zemo challenges. Plus if you dont have a 7* mojo for the worst challenge (Pepe used 16 revives for warlock alone with 6* mojo)

All in all, given the restrictive nature and materials needed for these events, I think the event could have been better thought out before released.

With WoE lasting all year, and having to prioritize that, the argument that the Carinas are permanent challenge so they can just be put aside is just not as valid. If the Carinas were actually released BEFORE woe, that would have been a different story as we could actually focus our resources on that. But we saw how rough the first Woe fight was, and thats lasting all year long. Not to mention how rough the finales would be.

Anyway, I think its not too late to amend the challenges and restore faith in the community as a lot of players were under false hope that they could get the rewards without the difficulty being aimed for the top 500 players of the entire playerbase. That level of difficulty wasnt really communicated.

One possible way of compromise that I saw suggested by someone was to have 1 selector locked behind completion of half of the objectives and the 2nd one behind the full exploration.

And before you say no, we weren’t really communicated there would be 2 selectors either. And making it so 1 selector behind half of the objectives wouldnt really be game breaking as those champs really want the dupe either way...

Anyways if you don’t agree, then comment down what you think a potential compromise could be
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Comments

  • captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Member Posts: 9,620 ★★★★★
    R3 random gem on completion of all 6 challenges, and lock fintech challenge only for valiant progression (So paragons actually wait for 8.4 or explore necro to become Valiant).

    For those who already completed 6 challenges, distribute the r3 gem crystal for them via mail (Both paragon and Valiants). In this way, the ones who already finished won't feel cheated.

    Is r3 Random gem too much to ask?
  • captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Member Posts: 9,620 ★★★★★
    @Fintech I also want to know, Don't you know mojo has unavoidable regen by completing his prompts, and warlock might degen mojo despite turning willpower off? Have you thought about it when designing the challenge?
  • BringPopcornBringPopcorn Member Posts: 5,217 ★★★★★
    There won't be any compromise, hope that they learn from it in the future.
  • captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Member Posts: 9,620 ★★★★★

    @captain_rogers yes, Fin knows this lol

    You’re not supposed to complete the prompts in that fight - which makes the regen very avoidable.

    Well, I really didn't thought about it in that angle. Yeah that makes sense, I need not to complete the prompts since All I do is mindlessly spam sp1 and deal damage via sp1.
    If that's the intention, then I'll say it's a clever design.
  • captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Member Posts: 9,620 ★★★★★

    There won't be any compromise, hope that they learn from it in the future.

    We will know whether they learn from the past in the next WoW fight.
  • Wicket329Wicket329 Member Posts: 3,371 ★★★★★

    There won't be any compromise, hope that they learn from it in the future.

    We will know whether they learn from the past in the next WoW fight.
    The fights were all designed well before the first one was released, so that’s probably not a good indicator of anything. The indicator is Kabam saying that they will be addressing Abs Man’s regen for his reappearance in the WoW finale
  • BringPopcornBringPopcorn Member Posts: 5,217 ★★★★★
    edited February 20
    Wicket329 said:

    There won't be any compromise, hope that they learn from it in the future.

    We will know whether they learn from the past in the next WoW fight.
    The fights were all designed well before the first one was released, so that’s probably not a good indicator of anything. The indicator is Kabam saying that they will be addressing Abs Man’s regen for his reappearance in the WoW finale
    I dunno I might be wrong, I remember an official post of something being changed after the challenge backlash... Even if it was designed long time ago they can adjust numbers.
  • AshacekarAshacekar Member Posts: 2,055 ★★★★

    @Fintech I also want to know, Don't you know mojo has unavoidable regen by completing his prompts, and warlock might degen mojo despite turning willpower off? Have you thought about it when designing the challenge?

    That match needs us to turn willpower off and even then it's time consuming. The path also has havok and modok. I have a 7* Mojo but i don't want to waste revives on modok.

    Finn and Mike's challenges are more like do this complete event with this champ which don't focus on specific sets of defender but whoever comes on that long path. Offcourse they wouldn't have thought about that since "Ultra difficult content" justifies everything, it has no limits, it could have been even worse. It's tough to think of challenges like Lagacy where the choosen attacker is reasonable and shines throughout complete challenge and in best interest of both Kabam and Community.

    But don't tag Finn, let him be at peace, we don't want him constantly justifying his challenges as well in forum.
  • AshacekarAshacekar Member Posts: 2,055 ★★★★

    Ashacekar said:

    @Fintech I also want to know, Don't you know mojo has unavoidable regen by completing his prompts, and warlock might degen mojo despite turning willpower off? Have you thought about it when designing the challenge?

    Finn and Mike's challenges are more like do this complete event with this champ which don't focus on specific sets of defender but whoever comes on that long path. Offcourse they wouldn't have thought about that since "Ultra difficult content" justifies everything, it has no limits, it could have been even worse. It's tough to think of challenges like Lagacy where the choosen attacker is reasonable and shines throughout complete challenge and in best interest of both Kabam and Community.
    I really have to say, I find it absolutely hysterical at this point how everyone who has actually done mine ends up saying “I can’t believe how every fight has a perfect counter, it all looks so much worse on paper - definitely had a knee jerk reaction.”

    And those who haven’t done it say this.

    Implying that “no thought went into them” is genuinely mind boggling to read.
    Those who are doing it are few anyways and if they did it, it means they had the champs in the best shape, the revives, the time to do it all, they would have obviously found it fun so they did it in first place. You will see streams from msd, Nagase, Pepe etc. You may not see a guide by MCoC Noob for a generic mass.

    But you have done your job, any interpretation on ultimate challenge is right. Zemo and Avengers ones are good enough and fun if you have rankups on the specific champs and want to go all out on revives wherever applicable.
  • A_FungiA_Fungi Member Posts: 999 ★★★★
    I think the challenges are all fine. Will they take some investment? Absolutely and that's okay because I am choosing to complete them.

    My only real complain is the rewards. I am having to level quite a few champs that I wouldn't have (Thor, Tigra and BW are minimum, since they aren't available as 7s).

    I also don't have Ironman, Antman (should have selected him over Maw evidently), Mojo, or Jabari as 7s. So more rank ups (pending what 7 I get from 14 day calendar and my incursion crystal).

    It's just a lot of catalysts to burn up to do these challenges without any given back.

    It should absolutely be an R3 gem for completing all of these vs an R2 gem. Just lock up Fintech challenge to valiant progression so it isn't a way to become valiant.

    Thanks for the content though @Lagacy @Fintech @Karatemike415
  • DeaconDeacon Member Posts: 4,254 ★★★★★
    I think what most people mean, and specifically for me, when I say there was no thought put into them .. what I mean is that nothing about those two challenges had any element of fun in them. So you make an Avengers challenge that "could" have been fun but you take out one of the original Avengers (Hulk) .. why??? To make it challenging? No, not really because what has been said is "these are all soloable fights" ... so then why not leave Hulk in anyway if these fights could just so simply be solo'd ???

    The answer is there just wasn't any real thought put into it. It's not an Avenger's challenge without Hulk. It's just a "well let me invoke the community rage" decision. Fin already said this. "I knew the community would rage" .. then why do it?

    Using someone's freshly ranked R3 Hulk or freshly pulled Hulk to completely cheese it would have been really fun for a lot of people. And he isn't going to walk through the content anyway even at R3. But I suspect the personal reasons got the better of things in the end.

    When you're making content for a community you think of the community first. Lagacy loves Stark Spidey ... he could have totally created some ridiculous challenge around Stark because a lot of content just isn't ideal for Stark Spidey but he chose not to.

    Who cares if the challenge got cheesed ... there are very skilled players (especially in the target group that everyone keeps saying this is intended for) ... so whatever content comes, someone will cheese it. So leaving the "strongest Avenger" off the team was unnecessary. Your "target players" are going to make quick work of this content regardless. So ... the thought was I want to make it super difficult instead? No .. because it isn't super difficult still. It's just content created to rage the community so it seems.

    Tigra and Jabari ... really? Everyone called this even before the content came out so that itself tells you how much thought went into it. None. I could pick two champs I enjoy and hate (Mysterio, DDHK) and say "Finish EOP" to check off whatever ultra, mega difficulty there had to be. But that wouldn't be fun at all ... doable sure .. but not fun.

    What this combination of champs did was well ... you've seen the backlash. It just isn't fun .. for most. A game like this is in a tough spot for sure. But first and foremost any and all content has to be considered for the community at large despite any uproar from any target group. It's a fast track to the end when you specifically try to exclude a large group of people and you say to them .. this isn't for you. That's no bueno and community 101.

    Tough to do for sure but the intent should always be for the community as a whole in whatever way that can be achieved. Hard, difficult content absolutely CAN be inclusive as opposed to how exclusive some of these pieces of content have been lately.

    And this is all from a player who is in the target group of this "end game" content. But I just don't find them fun to do ... well to be honest one of them ... the Zemo run could be super fun because I love Zemo lol. I wouldn't have chosen Zemo just because of all the ridiculous Zemo gate stuff. All that fight did was continue the community sentiment of shenanigans going on around content creators and information.

    But I mean listen ... we all can choose to do whatever. I'm just giving my advice and my thoughts and own opinions. It's nothing personal. I have (and will continue) to watch Karate Mike, Lagacy, KT1, Vega .. all my usual content creators on YouTube .. they've gotten me through a LOT of content in the game.
  • DeaconDeacon Member Posts: 4,254 ★★★★★
    A solo is a solo isn't it though? The manner in which it is solo'd shouldn't matter. Use cheese, milk whatever ...a solo is a solo so why did it matter?

    Let me scale back on the "no thought" thing. I think that's being taken too literally 😂. Obviously there was thought put into it ... what I mean is that it isn't creative at all. To me.

    The Avengers thing .. I mean it was cool ... there was something there but leaving Hulk off to stop a solo doesn't make any sense. You missed an opportunity for a lot of "stongest Avenger" community talk etc. It's just not creative to me. But again, that's just my puny opinion mate lol

    I appreciate the responses nonetheless Karate Mike. You've always been one of the few creators who I thought was just a genuine dude loving the game. But still ... to ME ... none of those challenges were creative or fun. And the community agrees.

    Not every opinion or response especially in disagreement has to be villain vs hero. We're adults (I'm assuming) ... it's just conversation in the end ... at least to me.

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,575 ★★★★★
    Challenges are not always going to give us the materials we need to complete them. Especially when they're harder. That's where choice comes in. If we want to complete them as effectively as possible, then we need to Rank what we need. There comes a point where being selective becomes a hindrance.
  • PolygonPolygon Member Posts: 4,556 ★★★★★
    ahmynuts said:

    Deacon said:

    I think what most people mean, and specifically for me, when I say there was no thought put into them .. what I mean is that nothing about those two challenges had any element of fun in them. So you make an Avengers challenge that "could" have been fun but you take out one of the original Avengers (Hulk) .. why??? To make it challenging? No, not really because what has been said is "these are all soloable fights" ... so then why not leave Hulk in anyway if these fights could just so simply be solo'd ???

    The answer is there just wasn't any real thought put into it. It's not an Avenger's challenge without Hulk. It's just a "well let me invoke the community rage" decision. Fin already said this. "I knew the community would rage" .. then why do it?

    Using someone's freshly ranked R3 Hulk or freshly pulled Hulk to completely cheese it would have been really fun for a lot of people. And he isn't going to walk through the content anyway even at R3. But I suspect the personal reasons got the better of things in the end.

    When you're making content for a community you think of the community first. Lagacy loves Stark Spidey ... he could have totally created some ridiculous challenge around Stark because a lot of content just isn't ideal for Stark Spidey but he chose not to.

    Who cares if the challenge got cheesed ... there are very skilled players (especially in the target group that everyone keeps saying this is intended for) ... so whatever content comes, someone will cheese it. So leaving the "strongest Avenger" off the team was unnecessary. Your "target players" are going to make quick work of this content regardless. So ... the thought was I want to make it super difficult instead? No .. because it isn't super difficult still. It's just content created to rage the community so it seems.

    Tigra and Jabari ... really? Everyone called this even before the content came out so that itself tells you how much thought went into it. None. I could pick two champs I enjoy and hate (Mysterio, DDHK) and say "Finish EOP" to check off whatever ultra, mega difficulty there had to be. But that wouldn't be fun at all ... doable sure .. but not fun.

    What this combination of champs did was well ... you've seen the backlash. It just isn't fun .. for most. A game like this is in a tough spot for sure. But first and foremost any and all content has to be considered for the community at large despite any uproar from any target group. It's a fast track to the end when you specifically try to exclude a large group of people and you say to them .. this isn't for you. That's no bueno and community 101.

    Tough to do for sure but the intent should always be for the community as a whole in whatever way that can be achieved. Hard, difficult content absolutely CAN be inclusive as opposed to how exclusive some of these pieces of content have been lately.

    And this is all from a player who is in the target group of this "end game" content. But I just don't find them fun to do ... well to be honest one of them ... the Zemo run could be super fun because I love Zemo lol. I wouldn't have chosen Zemo just because of all the ridiculous Zemo gate stuff. All that fight did was continue the community sentiment of shenanigans going on around content creators and information.

    But I mean listen ... we all can choose to do whatever. I'm just giving my advice and my thoughts and own opinions. It's nothing personal. I have (and will continue) to watch Karate Mike, Lagacy, KT1, Vega .. all my usual content creators on YouTube .. they've gotten me through a LOT of content in the game.

    I disagree. These all obviously had an insane amount of thought invested into them (if you played them, you'd understand), but it is in the execution and the state of the game surrounding these challenges that makes these all so awful.
    I disagree with thought being put into it if we are expected to turn willpower off for a single fight, and are expected to have a 7* rarity of a champ thats only available in an incursions crystal.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,575 ★★★★★
    Why do you need a 7*?
  • captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Member Posts: 9,620 ★★★★★

    Why do you need a 7*?

    well Obiviously everyone of us is hesitant to rank up a champ who is in 7* pool.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,575 ★★★★★

    Why do you need a 7*?

    well Obiviously everyone of us is hesitant to rank up a champ who is in 7* pool.
    You can take a 6* Champ up for the challenge and Sig them much easier. With enough patience you can even Ascend them.
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