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Battlegrounds is in Crisis

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    startropicsstartropics Posts: 675 ★★★★
    Vegeta9001 said:

    I can't get behind a "competitive" mode that is down to solely RNG of who the game allows you to draft. One team could get all their best champs and the other team could get offered 0 counters because of random drafting. Usually get disagrees for that take but randomly drafting from your deck is just silly. Just have us turn based draft from whatever unbanned champions are left in your deck to allow actual competitive counter picking.

    like poker, everyone's luck is the same over time so it the end success boils down to skill and drafting ability.
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    KLZKLZ Posts: 156 ★★
    Hey guys, can R2 Venom take R1 unduped Korg, in 97 sec, with 95% hp remaining? In VT..
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    Vegeta9001Vegeta9001 Posts: 1,518 ★★★★
    startropics said:

    Vegeta9001 said:

    I can't get behind a "competitive" mode that is down to solely RNG of who the game allows you to draft. One team could get all their best champs and the other team could get offered 0 counters because of random drafting. Usually get disagrees for that take but randomly drafting from your deck is just silly. Just have us turn based draft from whatever unbanned champions are left in your deck to allow actual competitive counter picking.

    like poker, everyone's luck is the same over time so it the end success boils down to skill and drafting ability.
    Not when you have numerous 1v1s over and over again. Poker is a bad example to use when you have multiple deals with the same opponent's in one game so that thematically could even out. But I have one fight with a guy and that's it, if I get a good drafting phase and he gets a bad one, and we're close to the same skill, he's been shafted. It's not because he wasn't skilled enough, I've won my fair share of games against more skilled opponent's because of good drafting phase and I've lost to absolute potatoes. Skill goes out the window when the game determine who you're allowed to draft.
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    jcphillips7jcphillips7 Posts: 1,213 ★★★★
    Vegeta9001 said:

    startropics said:

    Vegeta9001 said:

    I can't get behind a "competitive" mode that is down to solely RNG of who the game allows you to draft. One team could get all their best champs and the other team could get offered 0 counters because of random drafting. Usually get disagrees for that take but randomly drafting from your deck is just silly. Just have us turn based draft from whatever unbanned champions are left in your deck to allow actual competitive counter picking.

    like poker, everyone's luck is the same over time so it the end success boils down to skill and drafting ability.
    Not when you have numerous 1v1s over and over again. Poker is a bad example to use when you have multiple deals with the same opponent's in one game so that thematically could even out. But I have one fight with a guy and that's it, if I get a good drafting phase and he gets a bad one, and we're close to the same skill, he's been shafted. It's not because he wasn't skilled enough, I've won my fair share of games against more skilled opponent's because of good drafting phase and I've lost to absolute potatoes. Skill goes out the window when the game determine who you're allowed to draft.
    Gotta trust in the "heart of the cards".... aka, buy Shuffles lol.
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    Fit_Fun9329Fit_Fun9329 Posts: 1,898 ★★★★★
    Not gonna lie, since we decided to not have a BG duty, I did not play one match. I even did not catch my rewards for 5 matches or what it is.

    BG is just not enough entertaining and rewarding for me personally
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    Demonic_embraceDemonic_embrace Posts: 165 ★★
    Here are the main things ruining battlegrounds for most people. Unavoidable damage annoying defenders, attacker tactics, annoying metas, the extra vibranium tiers and having to win almost up to 15 fights in a row in other to get into the gladiator circuit. To some extent seeding. Bad rewards. Not being able to progress because ure having to face accounts that are 6 times bigger than yours. Battlegrounds was fine when there were no unavoidable damage defenders, no seeding, no attacker tactics and no extra vibranium tiers. Once all of these were introduced into the game mode. Bgs started to tank from there. Everyone got tired of getting screwed over and decided to be either casual players of the game mode, or not play it at all, and the results are beginning to show
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    mothertruckermothertrucker Posts: 3 ★
    havent got to cavalier to get some 6* shards but man 300k for 15k of 6* ? thats rough. i personally got stuck in plat cuz they keep giving me rosters with 30k~ pi champs ON THE BANNING SCREEN. please buff the rewards on the higher tier so they can move up
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    ReyAlemánReyAlemán Posts: 88 ★
    season 16 ended with 12,920 players on gladiator's circuit

    cheers
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    ThatGuy214ThatGuy214 Posts: 308 ★★
    That because BG is only skill based for the larger accounts every one else is punished for not spending or mild spending. Effort in not worth effort out how fun is to just spend time losing or when you finally get a win it taken away the next match when you get smashed by a larger roster the next round. Thus making the climb even to 300k solo just an absolute miserable experience in a broken game. Kabam own words is our time has no value so people stop giving to a BS game mode that favors the top 5%. You could simply stop taking the medals away for a lose in VT that would allow wins to mean something.
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    klobberintymeklobberintyme Posts: 1,502 ★★★★
    Disthene_T said:

    TLDR - Participation is very low.

    It isn't really a new idea, complaints about BGs increase every month. Some of it is just standard complaints about not liking matchmaking or nodes being too frustrating. However at the center of it all, participation is tanking... and thats hurting everyone.

    "Low" is subjective, but let's take a macro look:

    BGs were introduced to engage endgame players with repeatable content while new content (necro, wow, 8.4, eventually 9.1, etc.) was being developed and awaiting release. BGs therefore are a supplemental revenue stream.

    Someone's been paying attention in Kabam's bean counter room, as Necro, WoW and now 8.4 are falling squarely within separate fiscal quarters. Q3 2024 I'd wager you'll see some sweetening of BG rewards to go with July 4th deals. Might even happen towards end of Q2.

    Results can always be better, but I suspect, as others have mentioned, this current level of player engagement with BGs falls within projected parameters, and they've got some tricks up their sleeves for upcoming seasons. (For those who don't work in corporate bean counting worlds, every new fiscal year companies provide detailed cost and revenue projections by quarter, so they know how much capital is required to secure, by when, and how much revenue they can expect to recognize. They see the same data you're showing in that graph and most likely plugged those declining projections into their calculus.)

    If BGs were their primary revenue stream then sure, the sink be shipping.
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    Artoria77Artoria77 Posts: 2,546 ★★★★★
    Totally agree with everything you say.
    Also finding time to slot in BGs on top of daily questing, AW and AQ is hard for the average player like me, I’m sure many others are in the same boat as well
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    Bugmat78Bugmat78 Posts: 2,255 ★★★★★
    edited April 7
    klobberintyme said:

    Disthene_T said:

    TLDR - Participation is very low.

    It isn't really a new idea, complaints about BGs increase every month. Some of it is just standard complaints about not liking matchmaking or nodes being too frustrating. However at the center of it all, participation is tanking... and thats hurting everyone.

    "Low" is subjective, but let's take a macro look:

    BGs were introduced to engage endgame players with repeatable content while new content (necro, wow, 8.4, eventually 9.1, etc.) was being developed and awaiting release. BGs therefore are a supplemental revenue stream.

    Someone's been paying attention in Kabam's bean counter room, as Necro, WoW and now 8.4 are falling squarely within separate fiscal quarters. Q3 2024 I'd wager you'll see some sweetening of BG rewards to go with July 4th deals. Might even happen towards end of Q2.

    Results can always be better, but I suspect, as others have mentioned, this current level of player engagement with BGs falls within projected parameters, and they've got some tricks up their sleeves for upcoming seasons. (For those who don't work in corporate bean counting worlds, every new fiscal year companies provide detailed cost and revenue projections by quarter, so they know how much capital is required to secure, by when, and how much revenue they can expect to recognize. They see the same data you're showing in that graph and most likely plugged those declining projections into their calculus.)

    If BGs were their primary revenue stream then sure, the sink be shipping.
    Disagree - BGs was introduced as alternate content, not just to the spenders who didnt necessarily engage in alliance war, or bored endgame players, but also to drive up engagement across the game by providing a true versus style mode people have been craving for years in a fighting game and possibly create new spenders.

    It is now a primary game mode revenue stream, which is why the BG store has the best rewards and why they have actually juiced up the milestones for engagement in a time that to us may be slow but in the history of the game is fairly fast compared to how long other modes take to get significantly updated rewards.

    The primary revenue stream always have the best rewards (see previously AQ and the prestige chase).

    That said just because participation is falling significantly (and hence the rewards update on several levels to draw ppl back) doesn't mean that it alone tanks the game. The other streams are still there.
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    Qwerty12345Qwerty12345 Posts: 805 ★★★★
    BGs needs a long off season or a shorter season.

    It Also needs to feel like something "different"... Copying the war global... one of the least popular ones at that... is not a way to get more people to want to do it.

    Many alliances have "quotas" for its members, which half the members don't want to do / barely get 1 point over the quota... and if it weren't for those, participation would probably be multiple magnitudes lower than it is now.

    The upcoming buff in rewards would help... but not with the trash nodes they put in.
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    11993451199345 Posts: 488 ★★★
    edited April 7
    In my very humble opinion, stemming from my experience as a very average-at-best Paragon player, Battlegrounds is a pretty significant time investment for very little return. More often than not, one can play for 30 minutes and only get 3, maybe 4 wins. Rinse/repeat.

    There's nothing fun about that at all.

    I used to play for the 48-hour milestone objectives...key words used to...but I can't even bring myself to do that anymore since my head still hurts from season after season of bashing it against a wall and getting nowhere.

    It's a great mode for whales and elite players, but for the average Joe, it's a pretty miserable experience.
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