I'm not sure what should be or even could be done, but valiants/high paragons should not be playing in low tiers still.
But where do you put them at a season's start? In my alliance I have several TBs, paragons, and valiant that do the bare minimum in BGs simply because they don't enjoy it or are focused on other content and don't allot a lot of time for it. The try to complete 3 for the rewards and if they win along the way for those rewards it's just an added bonus to them. And this is 3 matches every reset. If they are, for example, started at Gold 3 level based solely on their progression title, is it then cool that they get the season start 5 match rewards simply for completing those five matches whereas as Bronze and Silver level starters have to win and progress up the ladder to get the equivalent?
BGs is a ladder based system. Win and you move up. If one finishes a season in Plat or Vibranium or Diamond, chances are good they won't ever be back down to Bronze or Silver. But you can't force people to play BGs. And it feels like there is an assumption that high level accounts in low level BG tiers are only there to bully and make it hard for low level accounts. Maybe in some cases that's true, but there's a variety of reasons a high level account can be in a low level BG tier.
I'm not sure what should be or even could be done, but valiants/high paragons should not be playing in low tiers still. That's wild to me.
I get the argument that not everybody plays alot of bg's, but damn, I feel for the small players having to face these big accts.
So where should they start? Lets say a Valiant player who never played BGs before and starts playing, are you saying they should automatically start in Diamond/Vibranium without ever having played a match?
I'm not sure what should be or even could be done, but valiants/high paragons should not be playing in low tiers still. That's wild to me.
I get the argument that not everybody plays alot of bg's, but damn, I feel for the small players having to face these big accts.
So where should they start? Lets say a Valiant player who never played BGs before and starts playing, are you saying they should automatically start in Diamond/Vibranium without ever having played a match?
Did you read what I said? I literally said "I don't know what they could do or how they could do it".
I'm not sure what should be or even could be done, but valiants/high paragons should not be playing in low tiers still. That's wild to me.
I get the argument that not everybody plays alot of bg's, but damn, I feel for the small players having to face these big accts.
So where should they start? Lets say a Valiant player who never played BGs before and starts playing, are you saying they should automatically start in Diamond/Vibranium without ever having played a match?
Did you read what I said? I literally said "I don't know what they could do or how they could do it".
Of course I read what you said. That doesn't mean you can't answer the question. You're making the suggestion they shouldn't be in lower tiers, so what's your proposed solution?
I'm not sure what should be or even could be done, but valiants/high paragons should not be playing in low tiers still. That's wild to me.
I get the argument that not everybody plays alot of bg's, but damn, I feel for the small players having to face these big accts.
So where should they start? Lets say a Valiant player who never played BGs before and starts playing, are you saying they should automatically start in Diamond/Vibranium without ever having played a match?
Did you read what I said? I literally said "I don't know what they could do or how they could do it".
That was the 1st half of your statement. The questions posed to you refer to the second half where you wrote "but valiants/high paragons should not be playing in low tiers still."
Myself and Demon asked if valiants and paragons shouldn't be playing in lower tiers, where then should they start or be placed at the beginning of or during a season?
I'm not sure what should be or even could be done, but valiants/high paragons should not be playing in low tiers still. That's wild to me.
I get the argument that not everybody plays alot of bg's, but damn, I feel for the small players having to face these big accts.
So where should they start? Lets say a Valiant player who never played BGs before and starts playing, are you saying they should automatically start in Diamond/Vibranium without ever having played a match?
This is why this system will never work UNLESS, they keep the shards in Diamond and Vibranium... Next season you will have the false sense that hey seeding and everything worked as Kabam expected. If there is no incentive to get to those tiers every season people not interested won't push.. so they will be seeded lower and they will sptead out again, and lower progression will keep on complaining.
I'm not sure what should be or even could be done, but valiants/high paragons should not be playing in low tiers still. That's wild to me.
I get the argument that not everybody plays alot of bg's, but damn, I feel for the small players having to face these big accts.
So where should they start? Lets say a Valiant player who never played BGs before and starts playing, are you saying they should automatically start in Diamond/Vibranium without ever having played a match?
Did you read what I said? I literally said "I don't know what they could do or how they could do it".
That was the 1st half of your statement. The questions posed to you refer to the second half where you wrote "but valiants/high paragons should not be playing in low tiers still."
Myself and Demon asked if valiants and paragons shouldn't be playing in lower tiers, where then should they start or be placed at the beginning of or during a season?
OK, I'll try this again.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY CAN DO TO FIX IT.
That doesn't take away from the fact it shouldn't be happening.
But I sure as hell have zero ideas on how to fix it.
The only thing I can come up with is deck based matchmaking, but I also know that doesn't work due to sandbagging.
So therefore, I have no solution. I leave stuff like that to the game developers and guys from the CCP, or others who may have a good idea about it.
I'm not sure what should be or even could be done, but valiants/high paragons should not be playing in low tiers still. That's wild to me.
I get the argument that not everybody plays alot of bg's, but damn, I feel for the small players having to face these big accts.
So where should they start? Lets say a Valiant player who never played BGs before and starts playing, are you saying they should automatically start in Diamond/Vibranium without ever having played a match?
Did you read what I said? I literally said "I don't know what they could do or how they could do it".
That was the 1st half of your statement. The questions posed to you refer to the second half where you wrote "but valiants/high paragons should not be playing in low tiers still."
Myself and Demon asked if valiants and paragons shouldn't be playing in lower tiers, where then should they start or be placed at the beginning of or during a season?
OK, I'll try this again.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY CAN DO TO FIX IT.
That doesn't take away from the fact it shouldn't be happening.
But I sure as hell have zero ideas on how to fix it.
The only thing I can come up with is deck based matchmaking, but I also know that doesn't work due to sandbagging.
So therefore, I have no solution. I leave stuff like that to the game developers and guys from the CCP, or others who may have a good idea about it.
It's no different from AW. If you're a new alliance, you start in the bottom tiers. You fight your way to the top. The way they have it now, that Valiant or high Paragon won't spend much time in low tiers. We get 2 medals for winning which makes the climb easier and faster.
As an example, I haven't played more than 5 BG matches or so in the past 3 or 4 seasons. This season, I started in Bronze 3 or something. Very low tier. I advanced quickly. I would have been way higher much faster if I had days and days to play without work or life.
But just like any competition, you have to start somewhere. I think with the model they have now, it's the best it can be without creating separate modes for Paragon/Variants and TB and below.
Next season, I'll seed much higher. I got to Uru 3 and don't feel the need to go further.
I'm not sure what should be or even could be done, but valiants/high paragons should not be playing in low tiers still. That's wild to me.
I get the argument that not everybody plays alot of bg's, but damn, I feel for the small players having to face these big accts.
So where should they start? Lets say a Valiant player who never played BGs before and starts playing, are you saying they should automatically start in Diamond/Vibranium without ever having played a match?
Did you read what I said? I literally said "I don't know what they could do or how they could do it".
That was the 1st half of your statement. The questions posed to you refer to the second half where you wrote "but valiants/high paragons should not be playing in low tiers still."
Myself and Demon asked if valiants and paragons shouldn't be playing in lower tiers, where then should they start or be placed at the beginning of or during a season?
OK, I'll try this again.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY CAN DO TO FIX IT.
That doesn't take away from the fact it shouldn't be happening.
But I sure as hell have zero ideas on how to fix it.
The only thing I can come up with is deck based matchmaking, but I also know that doesn't work due to sandbagging.
So therefore, I have no solution. I leave stuff like that to the game developers and guys from the CCP, or others who may have a good idea about it.
Ok. Fair. But you can't say that valiants and paragons shouldn't be allowed to play in low level tiers. To me that doesn't sound equitable. That's like saying anyone who makes $100k a year should be allowed to drive a Honda Accord.
Again, I think there is this assumption thay high level accounts are in low level BG tiers purposefully and willfully to bully and push around small accounts. And, again, maybe some are, but there are a ton of reasons a high level account can be in a low level BG tier.
Bottom line... it sucks losing. It's not fun. Especially so when one has worked hard only to be cut down and feel that all that work was for nothing. But in a 1v1, regardless of outside factors, there's always going to be one winner and one loser. It's the way it works. I have matchups as a higher level paragon account that I know I just won't win due to roster vs roster. I take my L and cue the next.
I'm not sure what should be or even could be done, but valiants/high paragons should not be playing in low tiers still. That's wild to me.
I get the argument that not everybody plays alot of bg's, but damn, I feel for the small players having to face these big accts.
So where should they start? Lets say a Valiant player who never played BGs before and starts playing, are you saying they should automatically start in Diamond/Vibranium without ever having played a match?
Did you read what I said? I literally said "I don't know what they could do or how they could do it".
That was the 1st half of your statement. The questions posed to you refer to the second half where you wrote "but valiants/high paragons should not be playing in low tiers still."
Myself and Demon asked if valiants and paragons shouldn't be playing in lower tiers, where then should they start or be placed at the beginning of or during a season?
OK, I'll try this again.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY CAN DO TO FIX IT.
That doesn't take away from the fact it shouldn't be happening.
But I sure as hell have zero ideas on how to fix it.
The only thing I can come up with is deck based matchmaking, but I also know that doesn't work due to sandbagging.
So therefore, I have no solution. I leave stuff like that to the game developers and guys from the CCP, or others who may have a good idea about it.
It's no different from AW. If you're a new alliance, you start in the bottom tiers. You fight your way to the top. The way they have it now, that Valiant or high Paragon won't spend much time in low tiers. We get 2 medals for winning which makes the climb easier and faster.
As an example, I haven't played more than 5 BG matches or so in the past 3 or 4 seasons. This season, I started in Bronze 3 or something. Very low tier. I advanced quickly. I would have been way higher much faster if I had days and days to play without work or life.
But just like any competition, you have to start somewhere. I think with the model they have now, it's the best it can be without creating separate modes for Paragon/Variants and TB and below.
Next season, I'll seed much higher. I got to Uru 3 and don't feel the need to go further.
That's a good point, especially about new alliances playing aw starting at the bottom. Who's stopping a bunch of retired big accts from doing the same and crushing the small alliance without really even having to try, right?
I never thought about it that way.
It sucks for the smaller guys, but it is what it is. Gotta take the good with the bad and also realize that you're just not always gonna win.
I have been crushed by massive accounts to, it happens.
I'm not sure what should be or even could be done, but valiants/high paragons should not be playing in low tiers still. That's wild to me.
I get the argument that not everybody plays alot of bg's, but damn, I feel for the small players having to face these big accts.
So where should they start? Lets say a Valiant player who never played BGs before and starts playing, are you saying they should automatically start in Diamond/Vibranium without ever having played a match?
Did you read what I said? I literally said "I don't know what they could do or how they could do it".
That was the 1st half of your statement. The questions posed to you refer to the second half where you wrote "but valiants/high paragons should not be playing in low tiers still."
Myself and Demon asked if valiants and paragons shouldn't be playing in lower tiers, where then should they start or be placed at the beginning of or during a season?
OK, I'll try this again.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY CAN DO TO FIX IT.
That doesn't take away from the fact it shouldn't be happening.
But I sure as hell have zero ideas on how to fix it.
The only thing I can come up with is deck based matchmaking, but I also know that doesn't work due to sandbagging.
So therefore, I have no solution. I leave stuff like that to the game developers and guys from the CCP, or others who may have a good idea about it.
Ok. Fair. But you can't say that valiants and paragons shouldn't be allowed to play in low level tiers. To me that doesn't sound equitable. That's like saying anyone who makes $100k a year should be allowed to drive a Honda Accord.
Again, I think there is this assumption thay high level accounts are in low level BG tiers purposefully and willfully to bully and push around small accounts. And, again, maybe some are, but there are a ton of reasons a high level account can be in a low level BG tier.
Bottom line... it sucks losing. It's not fun. Especially so when one has worked hard only to be cut down and feel that all that work was for nothing. But in a 1v1, regardless of outside factors, there's always going to be one winner and one loser. It's the way it works. I have matchups as a higher level paragon account that I know I just won't win due to roster vs roster. I take my L and cue the next.
You also bring up some good points. See my reply to demonfyze, I meant to Tag you in it.
I'm not sure what should be or even could be done, but valiants/high paragons should not be playing in low tiers still. That's wild to me.
I get the argument that not everybody plays alot of bg's, but damn, I feel for the small players having to face these big accts.
So where should they start? Lets say a Valiant player who never played BGs before and starts playing, are you saying they should automatically start in Diamond/Vibranium without ever having played a match?
Did you read what I said? I literally said "I don't know what they could do or how they could do it".
That was the 1st half of your statement. The questions posed to you refer to the second half where you wrote "but valiants/high paragons should not be playing in low tiers still."
Myself and Demon asked if valiants and paragons shouldn't be playing in lower tiers, where then should they start or be placed at the beginning of or during a season?
OK, I'll try this again.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY CAN DO TO FIX IT.
That doesn't take away from the fact it shouldn't be happening.
But I sure as hell have zero ideas on how to fix it.
The only thing I can come up with is deck based matchmaking, but I also know that doesn't work due to sandbagging.
So therefore, I have no solution. I leave stuff like that to the game developers and guys from the CCP, or others who may have a good idea about it.
Ok. Fair. But you can't say that valiants and paragons shouldn't be allowed to play in low level tiers. To me that doesn't sound equitable. That's like saying anyone who makes $100k a year should be allowed to drive a Honda Accord.
Again, I think there is this assumption thay high level accounts are in low level BG tiers purposefully and willfully to bully and push around small accounts. And, again, maybe some are, but there are a ton of reasons a high level account can be in a low level BG tier.
Bottom line... it sucks losing. It's not fun. Especially so when one has worked hard only to be cut down and feel that all that work was for nothing. But in a 1v1, regardless of outside factors, there's always going to be one winner and one loser. It's the way it works. I have matchups as a higher level paragon account that I know I just won't win due to roster vs roster. I take my L and cue the next.
You also bring up some good points. See my reply to demonfyze, I meant to Tag you in it.
I can show you LINE posts from some in my alliance that have higher level accounts who dislike BGs or don't play BGs often who feel terrible about the small accounts they go up against. Genuinely feel bad as they feel it's unfair to the smaller accounts.
We all made good points. The unfortunate thing is, there will never be an equitable system. They could get it to 95% and it'd still negatively affect 5%.
I'm not sure what should be or even could be done, but valiants/high paragons should not be playing in low tiers still. That's wild to me.
I get the argument that not everybody plays alot of bg's, but damn, I feel for the small players having to face these big accts.
So where should they start? Lets say a Valiant player who never played BGs before and starts playing, are you saying they should automatically start in Diamond/Vibranium without ever having played a match?
Did you read what I said? I literally said "I don't know what they could do or how they could do it".
That was the 1st half of your statement. The questions posed to you refer to the second half where you wrote "but valiants/high paragons should not be playing in low tiers still."
Myself and Demon asked if valiants and paragons shouldn't be playing in lower tiers, where then should they start or be placed at the beginning of or during a season?
OK, I'll try this again.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY CAN DO TO FIX IT.
That doesn't take away from the fact it shouldn't be happening.
But I sure as hell have zero ideas on how to fix it.
The only thing I can come up with is deck based matchmaking, but I also know that doesn't work due to sandbagging.
So therefore, I have no solution. I leave stuff like that to the game developers and guys from the CCP, or others who may have a good idea about it.
Ok. Fair. But you can't say that valiants and paragons shouldn't be allowed to play in low level tiers. To me that doesn't sound equitable. That's like saying anyone who makes $100k a year should be allowed to drive a Honda Accord.
Again, I think there is this assumption thay high level accounts are in low level BG tiers purposefully and willfully to bully and push around small accounts. And, again, maybe some are, but there are a ton of reasons a high level account can be in a low level BG tier.
Bottom line... it sucks losing. It's not fun. Especially so when one has worked hard only to be cut down and feel that all that work was for nothing. But in a 1v1, regardless of outside factors, there's always going to be one winner and one loser. It's the way it works. I have matchups as a higher level paragon account that I know I just won't win due to roster vs roster. I take my L and cue the next.
You also bring up some good points. See my reply to demonfyze, I meant to Tag you in it.
I can show you LINE posts from some in my alliance that have higher level accounts who dislike BGs or don't play BGs often who feel terrible about the small accounts they go up against. Genuinely feel bad as they feel it's unfair to the smaller accounts.
We all made good points. The unfortunate thing is, there will never be an equitable system. They could get it to 95% and it'd still negatively affect 5%.
I'm similar in that regard. When I'm playing, especially at the start of the season and I match against clearly inferior accounts, I do feel bad for them because outside of a miracle on their part, they have no shot at winning. Half of them just forfeit, then half of them actually do try which is awesome for them at least trying.
At least they did do the 2 medal system starting this season, so it definitely helps everybody that does play on even a semi regular basis.
Pushes alot of the higher accounts higher quicker and gives some of the smaller accounts a bit more breathing room.
Minus this season because it got messed at the beginning, though. 😬
I'm not sure what should be or even could be done, but valiants/high paragons should not be playing in low tiers still. That's wild to me.
I get the argument that not everybody plays alot of bg's, but damn, I feel for the small players having to face these big accts.
So where should they start? Lets say a Valiant player who never played BGs before and starts playing, are you saying they should automatically start in Diamond/Vibranium without ever having played a match?
Did you read what I said? I literally said "I don't know what they could do or how they could do it".
That was the 1st half of your statement. The questions posed to you refer to the second half where you wrote "but valiants/high paragons should not be playing in low tiers still."
Myself and Demon asked if valiants and paragons shouldn't be playing in lower tiers, where then should they start or be placed at the beginning of or during a season?
OK, I'll try this again.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY CAN DO TO FIX IT.
That doesn't take away from the fact it shouldn't be happening.
But I sure as hell have zero ideas on how to fix it.
The only thing I can come up with is deck based matchmaking, but I also know that doesn't work due to sandbagging.
So therefore, I have no solution. I leave stuff like that to the game developers and guys from the CCP, or others who may have a good idea about it.
It's no different from AW. If you're a new alliance, you start in the bottom tiers. You fight your way to the top. The way they have it now, that Valiant or high Paragon won't spend much time in low tiers. We get 2 medals for winning which makes the climb easier and faster.
As an example, I haven't played more than 5 BG matches or so in the past 3 or 4 seasons. This season, I started in Bronze 3 or something. Very low tier. I advanced quickly. I would have been way higher much faster if I had days and days to play without work or life.
But just like any competition, you have to start somewhere. I think with the model they have now, it's the best it can be without creating separate modes for Paragon/Variants and TB and below.
Next season, I'll seed much higher. I got to Uru 3 and don't feel the need to go further.
That's a good point, especially about new alliances playing aw starting at the bottom. Who's stopping a bunch of retired big accts from doing the same and crushing the small alliance without really even having to try, right?
I never thought about it that way.
It sucks for the smaller guys, but it is what it is. Gotta take the good with the bad and also realize that you're just not always gonna win.
I have been crushed by massive accounts to, it happens.
AW matchmaking has always been something that has been complained about. Retired big accounts who don't take AW seriously exist currently. BG matchmaking complaints have taken over but it happens frequently in AW. But war tier and BG tier work exactly the same. You're not entitled to win every match.
I get matched against accounts that I clearly overpower. Not that I'm a great player... strictly roster vs roster. And I feel bad knowing my 6r5 will probably beat their 5r4 or 5r5. The big thing I hate is watching them forfeit right after the match determining fight ends. I look at is that their account and the BG tier they're at will be rid of me quick, but they are throwing away points that can help their alliance in the BG alliance event or help themselves in the solo BG event. I, admittedly, will rage forfeit very, very rarely or have that random disconnect but if I lose to a superior roster, be it a higher paragon or a Valiant, I take my L, let the match timer go to completion, and cue up the next to earn more points possibly slowly but surely.
Honestly, @Demonzfyre AW analogy was very spot on. There are big accounts in new retirement alliances that start out with an AW rating of 0 that face a new alliance of provens and conquerors or UCs and Cavs. At that point it is what it is. Everyone has to start somewhere. If you're the ant vs the boot (obligatory Avengers reference) hope that the boot moves up quick.
If you are cav with 6r3 you really don't have much skills...
Okay maybe I have very low skills..but even if I had good skills...how do you expect me to beat 7*r3 champs..can you beat them with your 6* r2 , r3 champs?? If you can't then you are not skilled either then
I dunno if I can or not, cause I used my skilks to do content and rank up champs so I don't have a deck with 6r2s and 6r3s...
Exactly this is why you are not able to understand the frustration of low tier players..and it's just not skills to do content, you need time and prep to clear content..you can't clear content with just pure skill..so stop this skill rant
No no you CAN clear content with pure skill , it's not possible in BGs purely because of the time constraint and hence the requirement for higher ranked champs. But that's beside the point.
Yes the matchmaking is screwed up, people shouldn't be matching against accounts 4 times their size below platinum.
BUT THERE'S A BUG THIS TIME. So it's a free for all. There's nothing kabam can do cause they have screwed up enough already, if they attempted to change something I GUARANTEE YOU, there will be even more problems than there are now.
Also they have given some compensation for this matchmaking bug, so I don't think they'll address this any further.
So there's only one thing you can do cause raising the issue on the forums will not solve your problems now will it? Just wait it out, by next week most whales will already be in GC plus the people that are after the shards will already be in Vibranium so you'll have an easier time then.
Rn there's nothing you can do about it
Yes I understand that.nothing's going to happen anytime soon.. I was just too frustrated and wanted to talk about it..the game should be enjoyable for all..not just for high rank players..that was all I was trying to convey
I get it man. Losing a fair fight is one thing but getting matched with an undefeatable Opponent is just plain bs. Just go in and try to win atleast like 1 fight for the magnetron crystal and leave the mode alone. Even Valiants are getting stuck in Gold and plat so take a chill pill
Yeah im valiant and when bg started even getting out of gold was hard but end up doing vt with 2 weeks time left had also lots of bs match against top ally players but it is what it is nothing can do about it. Atleast got the vision piece and titan shards and 7*
I feel you OP. I get match against opponent that I stand no chance of winning so I forfeit and try again until I find an opponent that I may have a chance of winning.
In all sincerity, if you lose a match don't forfeit. You earn no points towards the solo and alliance BG event if you forfeit. Losing sucks but you're sacrificing more than you think by forfeiting. Get something for a loss.
I'm not sure what should be or even could be done, but valiants/high paragons should not be playing in low tiers still.
But where do you put them at a season's start? In my alliance I have several TBs, paragons, and valiant that do the bare minimum in BGs simply because they don't enjoy it or are focused on other content and don't allot a lot of time for it. The try to complete 3 for the rewards and if they win along the way for those rewards it's just an added bonus to them. And this is 3 matches every reset. If they are, for example, started at Gold 3 level based solely on their progression title, is it then cool that they get the season start 5 match rewards simply for completing those five matches whereas as Bronze and Silver level starters have to win and progress up the ladder to get the equivalent?
BGs is a ladder based system. Win and you move up. If one finishes a season in Plat or Vibranium or Diamond, chances are good they won't ever be back down to Bronze or Silver. But you can't force people to play BGs. And it feels like there is an assumption that high level accounts in low level BG tiers are only there to bully and make it hard for low level accounts. Maybe in some cases that's true, but there's a variety of reasons a high level account can be in a low level BG tier.
Yep like this bug now last bg i did vt and now started gold5 like others. And now added bonus 7* and 10k titan shards and vision piece make people play bg even if they dont normally play it. Rather do bg than use 5k units on vision piece
I'm not sure what should be or even could be done, but valiants/high paragons should not be playing in low tiers still. That's wild to me.
I get the argument that not everybody plays alot of bg's, but damn, I feel for the small players having to face these big accts.
So where should they start? Lets say a Valiant player who never played BGs before and starts playing, are you saying they should automatically start in Diamond/Vibranium without ever having played a match?
Did you read what I said? I literally said "I don't know what they could do or how they could do it".
That was the 1st half of your statement. The questions posed to you refer to the second half where you wrote "but valiants/high paragons should not be playing in low tiers still."
Myself and Demon asked if valiants and paragons shouldn't be playing in lower tiers, where then should they start or be placed at the beginning of or during a season?
OK, I'll try this again.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY CAN DO TO FIX IT.
That doesn't take away from the fact it shouldn't be happening.
But I sure as hell have zero ideas on how to fix it.
The only thing I can come up with is deck based matchmaking, but I also know that doesn't work due to sandbagging.
So therefore, I have no solution. I leave stuff like that to the game developers and guys from the CCP, or others who may have a good idea about it.
Deck matching has problems other than sandbagging. In fact, when deck matching was in force I used an all 4* deck without any of the 2* shenanigans and still had an over 75% win rate throughout all of VT, because roster strength is not the only advantage in the game. If everyone has to play with the same deck, then the advantage swings to the players with the most fight skill, and also the players with the deepest knowledge of the champs and game mechanics. I don’t have the best skill, but I do have nine years of champion and game mechanical knowledge. Across the entire player base, I’m going to beat about 75% of them just in the draft alone. People talk about how “hopeless” some match ups are due to ratings gaps. But if you’ve seen what it was like battling poor Cavs with the same deck, you’d know that most of those fights were also hopeless, the Cav just didn’t know how hopelessly bad they drafted or picked in the fight screens.
MSD has a better chance beating my Valiant deck with a bunch of 4* champs than the average newbie has of beating me with identical decks.
Your presumption is that stronger players should never face weaker ones. But how does the game know which ones are stronger and which are weaker? You’re focused on roster, but why is that the only wrong match up imbalance? Why is it fair for a player with ten times better reflexes to get matched up against a slower player? Why is it fair for a player with ten times more knowledge to get matched up against a less knowledgeable player?
How do you know if I know way more than you? We play the game. How do you know if you can beat me with your roster when you play me with my roster. We play the game. The game knows that stronger competitors are in fact stronger when they beat the weaker ones. That is the one and only way we know who really is better. Maybe my roster is twice as strong as yours, but you play twice as good as me? Who’s the better BG player? We have to play the match to know.
BG settles the question of who is better by making everyone play everyone else. What some people are calling a bug or a flaw that requires a fix, the game considers to be a feature. *If* a stronger player starts in a low tier, the way we remove them from that tier is he or she players the competition that is there, wins a lot, and promotes quickly out of that tier. If the player truly outclasses the competition in that tier, they will promote in only a few matches, between one and three most of the time. That’s one of the reasons why S19 has more VT tiers that are individually easier to promote out of. If there are imbalances, the “shorter” VT tiers will push the stronger players out quicker than in previous seasons.
In anything, roster matching in the low tiers had a detrimental side effect, because stronger players had to face each other, they promoted more slowly. This meant they lingered in the low tiers longer, and piled up around Platinum. So when the lower progress players promoted out of the bottom half of VT where they were sheltered from those players, they would suddenly run into a ton of very strong players. That led to a much more abrupt transition from low to high VT.
In fact, in several posts in the past when lower progress players complained about running into those players in P1, I said that they should be careful what they wished for, because the most logical way to remove that problem was to remove roster strength matching in the lower half of VT. It was those protections that were creating that abrupt difficulty wall, and the only way to remove the wall was to smooth out matching by removing the match protections.
Be careful what you wish for now. If you think unrestricted matching is bad, the solution to it is worse. It’s placing the weak players into a BG ghetto and removing most of the rewards from it, to incentivize them to promote out of it.
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BGs is a ladder based system. Win and you move up. If one finishes a season in Plat or Vibranium or Diamond, chances are good they won't ever be back down to Bronze or Silver. But you can't force people to play BGs. And it feels like there is an assumption that high level accounts in low level BG tiers are only there to bully and make it hard for low level accounts. Maybe in some cases that's true, but there's a variety of reasons a high level account can be in a low level BG tier.
One option could be, giving a free dec with 7R3s but with no rewards. But then, they wont play.
I literally said "I don't know what they could do or how they could do it".
Myself and Demon asked if valiants and paragons shouldn't be playing in lower tiers, where then should they start or be placed at the beginning of or during a season?
Next season you will have the false sense that hey seeding and everything worked as Kabam expected. If there is no incentive to get to those tiers every season people not interested won't push.. so they will be seeded lower and they will sptead out again, and lower progression will keep on complaining.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY CAN DO TO FIX IT.
That doesn't take away from the fact it shouldn't be happening.
But I sure as hell have zero ideas on how to fix it.
The only thing I can come up with is deck based matchmaking, but I also know that doesn't work due to sandbagging.
So therefore, I have no solution. I leave stuff like that to the game developers and guys from the CCP, or others who may have a good idea about it.
As an example, I haven't played more than 5 BG matches or so in the past 3 or 4 seasons. This season, I started in Bronze 3 or something. Very low tier. I advanced quickly. I would have been way higher much faster if I had days and days to play without work or life.
But just like any competition, you have to start somewhere. I think with the model they have now, it's the best it can be without creating separate modes for Paragon/Variants and TB and below.
Next season, I'll seed much higher. I got to Uru 3 and don't feel the need to go further.
Again, I think there is this assumption thay high level accounts are in low level BG tiers purposefully and willfully to bully and push around small accounts. And, again, maybe some are, but there are a ton of reasons a high level account can be in a low level BG tier.
Bottom line... it sucks losing. It's not fun. Especially so when one has worked hard only to be cut down and feel that all that work was for nothing. But in a 1v1, regardless of outside factors, there's always going to be one winner and one loser. It's the way it works. I have matchups as a higher level paragon account that I know I just won't win due to roster vs roster. I take my L and cue the next.
Who's stopping a bunch of retired big accts from doing the same and crushing the small alliance without really even having to try, right?
I never thought about it that way.
It sucks for the smaller guys, but it is what it is. Gotta take the good with the bad and also realize that you're just not always gonna win.
I have been crushed by massive accounts to, it happens.
We all made good points. The unfortunate thing is, there will never be an equitable system. They could get it to 95% and it'd still negatively affect 5%.
At least they did do the 2 medal system starting this season, so it definitely helps everybody that does play on even a semi regular basis.
Pushes alot of the higher accounts higher quicker and gives some of the smaller accounts a bit more breathing room.
Minus this season because it got messed at the beginning, though. 😬
MSD has a better chance beating my Valiant deck with a bunch of 4* champs than the average newbie has of beating me with identical decks.
Your presumption is that stronger players should never face weaker ones. But how does the game know which ones are stronger and which are weaker? You’re focused on roster, but why is that the only wrong match up imbalance? Why is it fair for a player with ten times better reflexes to get matched up against a slower player? Why is it fair for a player with ten times more knowledge to get matched up against a less knowledgeable player?
How do you know if I know way more than you? We play the game. How do you know if you can beat me with your roster when you play me with my roster. We play the game. The game knows that stronger competitors are in fact stronger when they beat the weaker ones. That is the one and only way we know who really is better. Maybe my roster is twice as strong as yours, but you play twice as good as me? Who’s the better BG player? We have to play the match to know.
BG settles the question of who is better by making everyone play everyone else. What some people are calling a bug or a flaw that requires a fix, the game considers to be a feature. *If* a stronger player starts in a low tier, the way we remove them from that tier is he or she players the competition that is there, wins a lot, and promotes quickly out of that tier. If the player truly outclasses the competition in that tier, they will promote in only a few matches, between one and three most of the time. That’s one of the reasons why S19 has more VT tiers that are individually easier to promote out of. If there are imbalances, the “shorter” VT tiers will push the stronger players out quicker than in previous seasons.
In anything, roster matching in the low tiers had a detrimental side effect, because stronger players had to face each other, they promoted more slowly. This meant they lingered in the low tiers longer, and piled up around Platinum. So when the lower progress players promoted out of the bottom half of VT where they were sheltered from those players, they would suddenly run into a ton of very strong players. That led to a much more abrupt transition from low to high VT.
In fact, in several posts in the past when lower progress players complained about running into those players in P1, I said that they should be careful what they wished for, because the most logical way to remove that problem was to remove roster strength matching in the lower half of VT. It was those protections that were creating that abrupt difficulty wall, and the only way to remove the wall was to smooth out matching by removing the match protections.
Be careful what you wish for now. If you think unrestricted matching is bad, the solution to it is worse. It’s placing the weak players into a BG ghetto and removing most of the rewards from it, to incentivize them to promote out of it.