Leader and Patriot

Dirty_DozzDirty_Dozz Member Posts: 494 ★★★
in General Discussion
What was everyone's opinion of these two? I don't remember seeing much discussion about them, so I was under the impression that they were both "meh", but my alliance raked me over the coals for saying that lol, so I guess I'm wrong?

What are your thoughts on them?

Comments

  • captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Member Posts: 10,034 ★★★★★
    Patriot is like Infamous ironman. You have him in deck to counter one single champ, and even for that, he needs high sig.

    Leader is released near to count, who does everything leader does but better.

    So you're right
  • Dirty_DozzDirty_Dozz Member Posts: 494 ★★★
    Oof, not what I wanted to hear lmao, but thank you.

    Tried pulling for Arcade and pulled Sable, Patriot, and Leader 😭 was hoping for a bit of positivity about it, but I guess not lol.
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 8,062 ★★★★★
    13579rebel_ said:

    Nah, you're right.

    And there's probably no hope for them in the balance program either.

    Not even Silver Sable?
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 8,062 ★★★★★
    Patriot is alright to me, he’s designed to counter Photon and some other science defenders. But even if he does that really well, he seems to be kinda niche. Like he is missing some other skill tropes, such as an evade counter. How I would change him is to add a slow on his sp1 or a True Accuracy passive that can be activated via his reversal.

    The Leader is quite underrated in my opinion, he is probably one of the best control utility champions of this year, with his AI manipulation via the unique green door mechanic, his heal and power rate reversal, and his ability to block unblockable when awakened. And while his damage isn’t great outside of ideal matchups, he excels in those ideal matchups.
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 8,062 ★★★★★
    For more information, check out my Champion reviews
    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/371994/champion-review-patriot#latest
    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/372882/champion-review-the-leader#latest
  • SquidopusSquidopus Member Posts: 645 ★★★★
    Don’t have Patriot, but have had Leader for a while from a lucky featured crystal pull.

    Leader’s really not as bad as people make him out to be. Needs a buff for his damage but he’s still a solid choice. I don’t have Count Nefaria so I can’t exactly confirm my feelings myself, but despite their overlap I’m confident that even if Leader remains unchanged (do buff him though Kabam pls) he still has room to shine. People are looking too hard at the fact they both counter regen and power gain and ignoring their unique traits, not to mention their methods of control are different anyways (Leader has proper reversal for both and can extract damage from it, whereas Nefaria more so uses regen/power gain as a fuel source for his abilities). I’ve used him as a secutor attacker in war several times and he’s done well despite regen and ability power rate reduction caps theoretically kneecapping him- damage isn’t the end all be all if you can still lock down the fight, and Leader’s degen damage is more than sufficient with a 5 minute time limit. People just can’t handle a champ that doesn’t end fights in 40-50 seconds.
  • IlociaMIlociaM Member Posts: 149 ★
    Average 2024 champion experience
  • BeastDadBeastDad Member Posts: 1,942 ★★★★★
    No Mehtured crystals for me this time, give me 7* shards from basic dupes.
  • Graves_3Graves_3 Member Posts: 1,559 ★★★★★
    edited September 18
    BlackTuran said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    13579rebel_ said:

    Nah, you're right.

    And there's probably no hope for them in the balance program either.

    Not even Silver Sable?
    There’s no way Sable doesn’t get a buff. Nobody uses her anywhere
    There is like 2 ppl who use her and use her somewhat ok. The data will show she is doing great nearly 100% of the time. So no changes needed 😖
  • TerminatrixTerminatrix Member Posts: 3,110 ★★★★★
    edited September 18
    Dirty_Dozz said:

    What was everyone's opinion of these two? I don't remember seeing much discussion about them, so I was under the impression that they were both "meh", but my alliance raked me over the coals for saying that lol, so I guess I'm wrong?

    What are your thoughts on them?

    Lmao damn your alliance is harsh 😂😂😂

    Edit. Lmao.


    From my understanding...Leader is built for attack, so the may perform great in the right hands. His damage is garbage. And from what I've seen when he's on defense in BGs, his IS kinda meh, so no lies told. I fought him with CMM and she straight up dragged him.

    Not sure about Patriot. Heard he's a good Photon counter..but that's about it.
  • PT_99PT_99 Member Posts: 4,766 ★★★★★
    Just don't waste resources on them, that's all, if Kabam continues to release undertuned champs then playerbase shouldn't use those champs at all.

    I'm sure pre release bundles of patriot and leader was considered as one of worst and usage ratio is even worse.
    Good times ✅

    If Kabam sees less engagement on scuffed heroes then surely they'll ask Balance Program to fix the problem? Surely.
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 8,062 ★★★★★
    edited September 18
    Terminatrix said:

    Dirty_Dozz said:

    What was everyone's opinion of these two? I don't remember seeing much discussion about them, so I was under the impression that they were both "meh", but my alliance raked me over the coals for saying that lol, so I guess I'm wrong?

    What are your thoughts on them?

    Lmao damn your alliance is harsh 😂😂😂

    Edit. Lmao.


    From my understanding...Leader is built for attack, so the may perform great in the right hands. His damage is garbage. And from what I've seen when he's on defense in BGs, his IS kinda meh, so no lies told. I fought him with CMM and she straight up dragged him.

    Not sure about Patriot. Heard he's a good Photon counter..but that's about it.
    Leader just needs the right matchup, Anyone who has power gain or regeneration, he's great for. Also he isn't hindered by tenacity nodes so if there is a problematic regen or power gain defender on those nodes, he'll work there.
  • captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Member Posts: 10,034 ★★★★★
    GalactikDonut said:

    BlackTuran said:


    There’s no way Sable doesn’t get a buff. Nobody uses her anywhere


    erm, try again
    Did she took 2 mins?🤣
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 8,062 ★★★★★
    captain_rogers said:

    GalactikDonut said:

    BlackTuran said:


    There’s no way Sable doesn’t get a buff. Nobody uses her anywhere


    erm, try again
    Did she took 2 mins?🤣
    maybe ;)
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,635 ★★★★
    captain_rogers said:

    Patriot is like Infamous ironman. You have him in deck to counter one single champ, and even for that, he needs high sig.

    Leader is released near to count, who does everything leader does but better.

    So you're right

    Count specifically doesn't do everything leader does better, they have similar abilities but are distinct champs designed for different kinds of damage. The higher the regen or power gain n an opponent the more damage leader does, to a potentially absurd degree, whereas nefaria reduces and steals regen and power gain to fuel his big specials. I would go as far as to say leader has a much higher potential damage ceiling because of the degen vulnerability and the massive degen on his sp3, whereas count is morr consistently high damage but does have a relatively hard limit to his damage
  • captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Member Posts: 10,034 ★★★★★
    WednesdayLength said:

    captain_rogers said:

    Patriot is like Infamous ironman. You have him in deck to counter one single champ, and even for that, he needs high sig.

    Leader is released near to count, who does everything leader does but better.

    So you're right

    Count specifically doesn't do everything leader does better, they have similar abilities but are distinct champs designed for different kinds of damage. The higher the regen or power gain n an opponent the more damage leader does, to a potentially absurd degree, whereas nefaria reduces and steals regen and power gain to fuel his big specials. I would go as far as to say leader has a much higher potential damage ceiling because of the degen vulnerability and the massive degen on his sp3, whereas count is morr consistently high damage but does have a relatively hard limit to his damage
    Problem is most matchups where you can reverse regen with leader and get a advantage, They come with nodes like indomitable.

    In bgs, Both leader and nefaria handle regen/power gain matches, Bu nefaria does it faster and in short fights you doesn't really need the regen reversal.

    Although leader is unique, The number of places he shine is less
  • Khellendros138Khellendros138 Member Posts: 586 ★★★
    Patriot actually seems pretty nice. My 6* I'd at rank 3 right now and he can those some big yellow numbers pretty easily and he's a miss counter which is pretty nice. Also weakness debuffs are far less effective on him and add to his strength. I am digging him.
  • Josh2507Josh2507 Member Posts: 746 ★★★★
    Honestly, I forgot about them

    I saw something about leader being bugged last week

    Patriot completely slipped my mind
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 8,062 ★★★★★
    Khellendros138 said:

    Patriot actually seems pretty nice. My 6* I'd at rank 3 right now and he can those some big yellow numbers pretty easily and he's a miss counter which is pretty nice. Also weakness debuffs are far less effective on him and add to his strength. I am digging him.

    Is he duped?
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,635 ★★★★
    captain_rogers said:

    WednesdayLength said:

    captain_rogers said:

    Patriot is like Infamous ironman. You have him in deck to counter one single champ, and even for that, he needs high sig.

    Leader is released near to count, who does everything leader does but better.

    So you're right

    Count specifically doesn't do everything leader does better, they have similar abilities but are distinct champs designed for different kinds of damage. The higher the regen or power gain n an opponent the more damage leader does, to a potentially absurd degree, whereas nefaria reduces and steals regen and power gain to fuel his big specials. I would go as far as to say leader has a much higher potential damage ceiling because of the degen vulnerability and the massive degen on his sp3, whereas count is morr consistently high damage but does have a relatively hard limit to his damage
    Problem is most matchups where you can reverse regen with leader and get a advantage, They come with nodes like indomitable.

    In bgs, Both leader and nefaria handle regen/power gain matches, Bu nefaria does it faster and in short fights you doesn't really need the regen reversal.

    Although leader is unique, The number of places he shine is less
    I'm merely saying that it's not a simple as just saying he does everything leader does but better.
  • Herbal_TaxmanHerbal_Taxman Member Posts: 856 ★★★★
    Pulled Patriot from a Titan. Leveled him up during the 22hr event, haven’t thought about him once since then.

    The problem with him is, he’s supposed to be a niche counter to Photon, which is theoretically fine. But he doesn’t seem to be better than KP or better than Mantis, both of whom are in the rosters of most advanced players at this point. So how is a niche champ who underperforms supposed to get any playing time?
  • Ayden_noah1Ayden_noah1 Member Posts: 1,925 ★★★★
    GalactikDonut said:

    BlackTuran said:


    There’s no way Sable doesn’t get a buff. Nobody uses her anywhere


    erm, try again
    Did you need to use max boost with skill powerback boost to beat htat Ironman? That's a pretty big health Ironman there, must have taken over 10 minutes to beat him.
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