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Rewards & Game Theory
TotemCorruption
Member Posts: 2,960 ★★★★★
Just curious how people reconcile their displeasure with outdated rewards with their reasons for playing the game in the first place.
If the content you care about is AW and BG, then does it really matter how outdated the rewards are if everyone is getting the same rewards? Because, after all, how would it help if they increased the rewards? Everyone would have access to them and the arms race would just progress past the rewards you just received...
Now, if you only care about solo progression, then yes, better rewards would make it easier for you to tackle this content.
But even then, I think game theory is at play. Better rewards will result in more players clearing hard content quicker, which then would force Kabam to make the new content harder, rendering the rewards you just received obsolete and resulting in renewed clamor for better rewards.
If anything, stagnant rewards seem to benefit the players most. It keeps players' past investments (in time or money or both) relevant for a longer time?
If the content you care about is AW and BG, then does it really matter how outdated the rewards are if everyone is getting the same rewards? Because, after all, how would it help if they increased the rewards? Everyone would have access to them and the arms race would just progress past the rewards you just received...
Now, if you only care about solo progression, then yes, better rewards would make it easier for you to tackle this content.
But even then, I think game theory is at play. Better rewards will result in more players clearing hard content quicker, which then would force Kabam to make the new content harder, rendering the rewards you just received obsolete and resulting in renewed clamor for better rewards.
If anything, stagnant rewards seem to benefit the players most. It keeps players' past investments (in time or money or both) relevant for a longer time?
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Whatever the problems in the game are, I am unsure that demanding better rewards solves anything, because it seems to just perpetuate the cycle of power creep and forced progression, which ultimately plays right into Kabam's hands.
Certain game modes are currently outdated,..which makes them stagnant and some people less inclined to play those game modes.
Adding rewards more in line with the games current economy to “core” game modes just creates more interest and balance.
Let’s not make assumptions as well,..i don’t believe anyone is suggesting top tier rank up mats ( rank up gems or R4 mats).
All the same,..doubt we needed yet another thread created on this subject,..kinda beating a dead horse imo.
2. As to your point, you're basically admitting that your interest in a game mode is largely tied to the rewards, rather than the gameplay itself. So basically, Kabam has brainwashed you hook, line, and sinker into buying into their entire business plan.
This game has become a task for you to complete in order to get the rewards, rather than the experience of enjoying the gameplay on its own merits.
We don't have to be PROGRESSION ADDICTS.
We don't have to let Kabam win 100%.
We can save our dignity once in a while and treat the game as a game which we play when we're enjoying the gameplay, and which we put down when we're tired of the gameplay.
I think the more relevant framework is behavioral economics rather than game theory. BE explores (among other things) how irrational actors influence markets. And everyone spending significant time and / or money on this kind of entertainment is irrational in a macro sense. We may make rational (seemingly) judgments in a micro sense — who do I rank up, should I spend this currency or that one — but ultimately none of this engagement “makes sense” and each person has their own idiosyncratic reasons for continuing this endless quest.
Circling back to your point, if Kabam increases rewards it certainly doesn’t create any meaningful separation between players. Rising tide and whatnot. However, for irrational / emotional actors, getting more rewards FEELS better. Personally, I like playing with new champs and different champs. I like learning about them, practicing with them, trying to find places to use them. I am motivated by acquiring more champs at higher rarities. That’s what feels good. I realize it’s dumb but at the exact same time I find value in the entertainment.
Does it make any sense? No, not at all. I’ve got hundreds of champs, over 130 seven stars alone. I don’t need any more champs, somebody I’ve got will probably do the job. But I like getting more. There’s no utility to the acquisition, it’s not rational at all.
I think everyone has different reasons for playing the game and for continuing when they are frustrated. Some people probably have the champ bug that I do. Others fool themselves into thinking that they are “winning” because of where they place in ranked events. Other people are just cemented in place by the sunk cost fallacy and refuse to move on. But regardless of the source, there’s no benefit to Kabam to tearing down the illusions that we have. Better to narcotize the masses with more meaningless rewards, IMO, than to argue some point about the game economy and some abstract need for austerity.
I am actually looking forward to Valiant EQ for a new difficulty to that game mode.
This game isn’t a “task” for me as i do enjoy some of the game modes and ignore the ones i do not.
Also,.,i hate to break it to you but this is a rewards based game and those should still stay somewhat relevant and balanced.
Lastly,..I haven’t remotely bought into Kabams business plan,..as i do what i want, when i want (if i want).
So there’s that.
But go on and keep making assumptions.
And what content are they irrelevant for specifically?
Because the most obvious example to me is TB EQ, but you still get ascension dust at the end (after completing gauntlet), and players still use that dust to ascend 6s, which are still relevant for half the paths in EoP.
I mean, I see players here posting all the time that "6s are ded." But then they make a thread about EoP and inadvertently reveal that they were using one of those pathetic 6s they spent all this time burying as useless.
Progression addicts needing their fix, even if it's completely counter-intuitive to what they seek ("defeating Kabam").
I also really don’t see how this is a matter of dignity and trying to stick it to Kabam because I like their game purely for its fundamentals and nothing else. Ha! Take that Kabam. Kabam winning isn’t inherently a bad thing, if a decision they make is mutually beneficial for them and the player base then I’m all for it. And in this case, a rewards buff means they keep some of their players and give whales more incentive to spend while also making game modes more exciting for the player base.
Would a buff speed up the economy and maybe bring us 8* a bit sooner? Sure, but personally I’d rather have 7* only last 3-4 years but in a game where I’m excited to play it than have them last 6 years where half the rewards in the game are meaningless to me.
Instead, when the AI starts dexing mid-combo, refusing to throw specials, parrying me out of nowhere, that's what keeps me engaged.
Otherwise, what am I, some capuchin monkey in de Waal and Brosnan's experiment? Doing predictable repetitive tasks in order to get my daily treat, until I see one of the exclusive monkeys get a better treat, and then I start complaining about my outdated rewards.
I’ve been playing Batman Arkham Knight lately, and my main motivation to play has been to just get better at its combat mechanics. There’s some jank to them, sure, but you know what that game doesn’t do? Roll the random chance that my punch decides to get interrupted by someone else despite me having the correct timing for it. If I get punched, I was too slow to counter or evade, and that’s my fault. There’s much more consistency in my actions compared to in mcoc, and even sometimes when my input does get ignored (which happens much less than in mcoc) my first reaction is not “ooh that was cool because it kept me engaged.” The mechanics keep me engaged. And if mcoc has to rely on inconsistencies to keep players engaged, then that’s an mcoc problem.
You can say that the AI behavior requires too much skill and understanding to play around its mechanics, but you can't say that no amount of skill or understanding is good enough.
Personally, I don't need to master the AI like MSD to enjoy the game. What I don't want is a boring AI that I can manhandle the same way every time.
If you think consistent ai means no gameplay variation then idk what to tell you. That’s literally the purpose of bided and champ rotations. But fine, if you enjoy getting punished for something that wasn’t your fault who am I to judge.
First of all, your assumption that people should play this game because they should enjoy the gameplay is biased. People play this game for many different reasons and what may be a core reason for someone, might mean absolutely nothing to another.
Second, rewards serve as an engagement tool, and in a gacha game like mcoc, rewards mean a lot. Now, Imagine playing BGs for hundreds of hours, placing 1st in solo ranking and not being able to open a single Titan crystal do to lack of rewards... No meaningful rewards means no engagement.
Third, Someone advocating for better rewards doesn't mean they are intrinsically hooked into Kabam's monetization strategy, I would actually say it's quite opposite. Bigger spenders have a tendency to care less about game mode rewards while ftp players do.
I'm no longer playing for the rewards but to test my skill against the top players
I play this game because it's Marvel related, because it's a strategy game and because I like to compete. And by competing I mean pushing my limits to place for top rankings.
This said, EQ, SQ, Acts, Necro, Epoch, Gauntlet, Arena and any other type of content are just CHORES for me. I do not enjoy playing any of those and usually blitz through that in a very short time period just to get it done.
Most of my playing time is focused on game modes and if these game modes have outdated rewards (specially when all these sales are going wild, I am ftp and I have a competitive focus), I have absolutely no engagement towards the game.
For bug it's a hotfix that different.
So u can't expect to cry like a kid to get u something & your parents will give it immediately 😂min 2-3 months (with meeting planning + testing va other rewards -like is one month getting too much reward+ content)