If you and 4 other buddies go to a casino with 100 dollars each, not all 5 are going to win. Most likely chance is all 5 will lose; but there is a chance 1 wins and the other 4 lose. Are you going to blame the casino or yourself for going?
I don't think the casino example was 100% accurate ( I have never been to one )
but since you have made this comment let me make one
yes when 5 people go to a casino, there is definitely a chance that 1 wins and other 4 lose or all 5 lose or any other combination of winning and losing
but every single one gets the same amount of chips/slot machine tokens or whatever else for $100 correct?
so think of rewards from chests as those chips, everyone should get the same amount
let's say the reward was a fully formed titan crystal and what everyone gets from the titan be the gamble some will win and get okoye or a champ they want, some will lose and get a 4th dupe on BWDO or a champ they don't want
( also don't say the conqueror and exploration rewards are the chips/slot machine tokens they are rewards for completing and exploring the raids same as completing and exploring ordeal
again I have never been to a casino )
The only reason why you are wrong is that when you initially joined raids you already knew about the RNG. You went in knowing you could win or lose.
Why play a game mode that is not going to provide you with the resources you are looking for while also paying a 180 entry fee?
The game mode rewards are the exploration rewards you get on monday. The chests are rng chest, same RNG chest one can find in paths of EQ or any other chest. You could get some lame iso or a revive. The cost? Aren't all players complaining about the loyalty store, glory store, incursion store? So why is the 180 tickets an issue when you can use the currency from those useless stores?
So in other words you are telling me that game mode exploration rewards should be seen as the core reason to play Raids given the 180 entry fee, instead of an insignificant Raid chest.
The only flaw behind this reasoning is that exploration rewards are as well as bad, if not worse, than the value those insignificant chests have. And if that were the case, we would be talking about a very badly designed game mode reward structure which should be addressed yesterday.
The fact that other currency stores are in a very bad shape does not help sustain your argument, it rather magnifies how devaluated they are and, if anything, exposes the need for those stores to be updated while questioning how are those resources even relevant in today's game economy.
If RNG on chests is bad, if exploration reward is bad, if the cost is too high, WHY ARE PEOPLE JOINING RAIDS?
This right here is precisely why there's a negative player sentiment around Nightmare Raids and why we are trying to suggest changes in how current RNG is implemented on those bonus chests. There's absolutely no need for people to stop playing Raids before it gets addressed. Otherwise we will end up exactly in the same situation we are regarding Battlegrounds.
If you and 4 other buddies go to a casino with 100 dollars each, not all 5 are going to win. Most likely chance is all 5 will lose; but there is a chance 1 wins and the other 4 lose. Are you going to blame the casino or yourself for going?
I don't think the casino example was 100% accurate ( I have never been to one )
but since you have made this comment let me make one
yes when 5 people go to a casino, there is definitely a chance that 1 wins and other 4 lose or all 5 lose or any other combination of winning and losing
but every single one gets the same amount of chips/slot machine tokens or whatever else for $100 correct?
so think of rewards from chests as those chips, everyone should get the same amount
let's say the reward was a fully formed titan crystal and what everyone gets from the titan be the gamble some will win and get okoye or a champ they want, some will lose and get a 4th dupe on BWDO or a champ they don't want
( also don't say the conqueror and exploration rewards are the chips/slot machine tokens they are rewards for completing and exploring the raids same as completing and exploring ordeal
again I have never been to a casino )
The only reason why you are wrong is that when you initially joined raids you already knew about the RNG. You went in knowing you could win or lose.
Why play a game mode that is not going to provide you with the resources you are looking for while also paying a 180 entry fee?
The game mode rewards are the exploration rewards you get on monday. The chests are rng chest, same RNG chest one can find in paths of EQ or any other chest. You could get some lame iso or a revive. The cost? Aren't all players complaining about the loyalty store, glory store, incursion store? So why is the 180 tickets an issue when you can use the currency from those useless stores?
So in other words you are telling me that game mode exploration rewards should be seen as the core reason to play Raids given the 180 entry fee, instead of an insignificant Raid chest.
The only flaw behind this reasoning is that exploration rewards are as well as bad, if not worse, than the value those insignificant chests have. And if that were the case, we would be talking about a very badly designed game mode reward structure which should be addressed yesterday.
The fact that other currency stores are in a very bad shape does not help sustain your argument, it rather magnifies how devaluated they are and, if anything, exposes the need for those stores to be updated while questioning how are those resources even relevant in today's game economy.
If RNG on chests is bad, if exploration reward is bad, if the cost is too high, WHY ARE PEOPLE JOINING RAIDS?
This right here is precisely why there's a negative player sentiment around Nightmare Raids and why we are trying to suggest changes in how current RNG is implemented on those bonus chests. There's absolutely no need for people to stop playing Raids before it gets addressed. Otherwise we will end up exactly in the same situation we are regarding Battlegrounds.
Yeah way to twist the negative sentiment towards raids. Sure it was the chest and not the bugs and the ridiculous node interaction with the champ abilities. It was the RNG in chest that was announced before people joined.
I'm still curious why we're debating RNG in a game that was built around RNG. The Chests are bonus Rewards. The focus in AQ has always been Rank Rewards, and the acquisition of Glory since its addition.
Because we are not debating the existence of RNG, we are debating how it's being implemented which are two different things.
If RNG chests are bonus rewards, rank rewards that have set values, should be exponentially increased according to the proportion values of all the aquirable resources in these "Bonus" chests. If the bulk of rank rewards is glory, the Glory Store should be updated at all times to have better value than the rng chest rewards. Otherwise there is a flaw in reward system design.
With the current reward system, (chests are not the prime asset) every player should, at the very least, be able to purchase all of the aquirable resources in RNG chests through the glory store at larger cuantities and with better value because that would be the only way actual reward system would have any reasonable meaning while rewarding rank positions properly. Why? Because chests are seen as "Bonus Chests", it's that simple.
Otherwise, if the bulk of the rewards in Raids are going to be rng chests, (like it currently feels) rng rewards should ALL be enticing in order for the reward system design to make any sense. And at the very least rng should not decide cuantity of resource, it should decide the type of resources which all should already have set value cuantities.
Who says they're supposed to be set quantities? The whole point of having RNG is to add an element of chance, and that same element of chance is afforded to every Player. What are the reasons they use this? To pace the flow of Resources, to give everyone the same chance at the highest values, to keep people engaged, many reasons I could think they MIGHT want to use it, but it's certainly not to give everyone the same thing. That's the opposite of the purpose of RNG.
I'm still curious why we're debating RNG in a game that was built around RNG. The Chests are bonus Rewards. The focus in AQ has always been Rank Rewards, and the acquisition of Glory since its addition.
Because we are not debating the existence of RNG, we are debating how it's being implemented which are two different things.
If RNG chests are bonus rewards, rank rewards that have set values, should be exponentially increased according to the proportion values of all the aquirable resources in these "Bonus" chests. If the bulk of rank rewards is glory, the Glory Store should be updated at all times to have better value than the rng chest rewards. Otherwise there is a flaw in reward system design.
With the current reward system, (chests are not the prime asset) every player should, at the very least, be able to purchase all of the aquirable resources in RNG chests through the glory store at larger cuantities and with better value because that would be the only way actual reward system would have any reasonable meaning while rewarding rank positions properly. Why? Because chests are seen as "Bonus Chests", it's that simple.
Otherwise, if the bulk of the rewards in Raids are going to be rng chests, (like it currently feels) rng rewards should ALL be enticing in order for the reward system design to make any sense. And at the very least rng should not decide cuantity of resource, it should decide the type of resources which all should already have set value cuantities.
Who says they're supposed to be set quantities? The whole point of having RNG is to add an element of chance, and that same element of chance is afforded to every Player. What are the reasons they use this? To pace the flow of Resources, to give everyone the same chance at the highest values, to keep people engaged, many reasons I could think they MIGHT want to use it, but it's certainly not to give everyone the same thing. That's the opposite of the purpose of RNG.
We all understand devs are working in a way to give the very least amount of possible resources and just enough to keep players engaged. That's how they are "pacing the flow of resources" and that's also exactly why they are adding RNG value in this case towards Raid Chests.
The HUGE problem is game not being seen as a whole. While devs work around designing content with that premise, monetization strategies are in comparison implemented at catastrophical difference levels doing exactly the opposite.
There is no correlation between game design and monetization strategy goals (at least that's how it feels like). And I would even dare to say that is the reason why the game keeps evolving at a very rapid pace although game mode rewards are being restrained at its max. And this is also the reason why game mode rewards and stores get outdated very fast.
This has taken place for almost two years now and players are getting tired of it. It feels as if we were constantly begging to be properly rewarded for the game we play. And that right there is not a good thing because players will one day say enough is enough.
If you and 4 other buddies go to a casino with 100 dollars each, not all 5 are going to win. Most likely chance is all 5 will lose; but there is a chance 1 wins and the other 4 lose. Are you going to blame the casino or yourself for going?
ur example is missing half the idea. raids is like a slot machine saying oh if u get the exact same result as ur friend, u can get 100$ OR 50$ OR 10$ like no we paid the same amount to play we got the same results why is it that even if WE BOTH WIN, there is still an additional layer of rng. Its like u need to get lucky twice, once to get the titan shards for example, and another time to get the good amount of them which is hella unnecessary and doesnt exist anywhere else in the game.
Did you know it was a possibility to get random rewards that you might not like? Is the sum of the 3 crates and exploration rewards + glory worth less than the 180 tickets?... You knew exactly what you were getting into and what types of rewards were available for the price of 180 tickets. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose. Some of the rewards are set some are RNG, if you don't like it you got the choice of not doing it
the "if you dont like it dont do it" mindset needs to stop because thats how u have games and devs walk all over you while you say thank u yes please.
"If you dont like the new bg scoring system dont play" No. We showed them that we didnt want it, and why it wasnt feasible, and they took it back and reverted it to the original IN 24 HOURS. If you're one to sit down and take everything, the rest of the community isnt. You do you my guy but we wont sit there watching people quit the game because "they didnt like it so they shouldnt play"
If you and 4 other buddies go to a casino with 100 dollars each, not all 5 are going to win. Most likely chance is all 5 will lose; but there is a chance 1 wins and the other 4 lose. Are you going to blame the casino or yourself for going?
ur example is missing half the idea. raids is like a slot machine saying oh if u get the exact same result as ur friend, u can get 100$ OR 50$ OR 10$ like no we paid the same amount to play we got the same results why is it that even if WE BOTH WIN, there is still an additional layer of rng. Its like u need to get lucky twice, once to get the titan shards for example, and another time to get the good amount of them which is hella unnecessary and doesnt exist anywhere else in the game.
Did you know it was a possibility to get random rewards that you might not like? Is the sum of the 3 crates and exploration rewards + glory worth less than the 180 tickets?... You knew exactly what you were getting into and what types of rewards were available for the price of 180 tickets. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose. Some of the rewards are set some are RNG, if you don't like it you got the choice of not doing it
the "if you dont like it dont do it" mindset needs to stop because thats how u have games and devs walk all over you while you say thank u yes please.
"If you dont like the new bg scoring system dont play" No. We showed them that we didnt want it, and why it wasnt feasible, and they took it back and reverted it to the original IN 24 HOURS. If you're one to sit down and take everything, the rest of the community isnt. You do you my guy but we wont sit there watching people quit the game because "they didnt like it so they shouldnt play"
Way to move the goal post. I didn't say if you don't like it don't do it. I said you were aware before you paid your 180 tickets. Actually its the exact opposite for devs. If you don't like it and don't do it they would probably consider something they worked for so long to be a failure. Raids are worth the 180 tickets in an overall package of rewards if you count the glory, the exploration reward and the rng crates Now if you were spending units for revives that would probably make it not worthy.
Bottom line, If you had gotten the top prize in each crate would you have come to the forums to open this thread? @Normax_X
absolutely i would because my alliance mates who dealt with the same stuff i did have gotten rewards that dont reflect their efforts, i have 2 people from what ive seen get 10 5*s from valiants, i got half a 7* and im still here, im not selfish ive seen the good and the bad
The threat is that players will feel unmotivated to contribute in future raids bcos of bad rewards experience and over time more players will not want to play without some kind of guarantee that the rewards will be worth the effort over 7 full days
Players are always looking for chill alliances bcos they feel that the effort needed in the game doesn't pay off
Eventually the mode will die off after a few cycles bcos less players want to touch that mode
Bottom line, If you had gotten the top prize in each crate would you have come to the forums to open this thread? @ Normax_X
He would have, normie is a homeboy. I also fought the same fight against the rng war season crystals back in the day even when I got the bigger peice of the pie.
I despised the fact that my officers in p1 alliance, who put up such great effort got shafted because of rng. And I as a normal member who got carried mostly, was new to top competitive AW, pulled triple thier rewards.
The selfish take on this one was that we were all irl friends and wanted everyone to be rewarded equally. Was glad when they finally took the rng crystals away. Buffed and standardized AW rewards for everyone.
It's the same feeling, but I'm on the short side this time.
There is absolutely ZERO justification that people working on the same path pull different rewards.
That is slimy at best.
There is absolutely ZERO justification that people who open the same crystals pull different champs.
Sounds silly doesn’t it?
Keeps things interesting I say
raids chests have two layers of rng not one, what type of reward u get and then the amount.
Epoch, ordeal, story, necro, everything still has crystals to pull different champs no one's fighting that, but raids is making it so even the initial reward set that you get from content is inconsistent between players which is the issue.
Imagine you did epoch of pain when it released u got half a t7 while ur friend got the full one and got his r4, even tho u did the exact same quest. thats what i mean
There is absolutely ZERO justification that people working on the same path pull different rewards.
That is slimy at best.
There is absolutely ZERO justification that people who open the same crystals pull different champs.
Sounds silly doesn’t it?
Keeps things interesting I say
raids chests have two layers of rng not one, what type of reward u get and then the amount.
Epoch, ordeal, story, necro, everything still has crystals to pull different champs no one's fighting that, but raids is making it so even the initial reward set that you get from content is inconsistent between players which is the issue.
Imagine you did epoch of pain when it released u got half a t7 while ur friend got the full one and got his r4, even tho u did the exact same quest. thats what i mean
Yeah, actually I see your point there.
Should make it no variance in quantity, only a variance in type of item
Sometimes the answer is because that's how they want it.
Sometimes what people want isn't what's best and that goes both ways. Put some thought into that. 😉
Ok. Just remember that when updates to the game economy finally come and they aren't what you want. Classic example of be careful what you wish for.
At this point what I want is just to feel there's something worth not quitting the game. Like I've said many times, there's absolutely no need to play any type of game mode right now.
Im a competitive valiant end game player. Just to put things into perspective, my alliance ranked 1st last BG season like many other times and we can't even open a basic 7* crystal from those rewards. I ranked top 4 during BG season anniversary realm event, and couldn't even open a Titan crystal. I've played Raids since it's release and all I've gotten are valiant crystals (ISO) and T6cc. The glory store is so outdated I've literally had Raids and AQ rank rewards expire many times because they are that irrelevant in today's game economy. I haven't played EQ, SQ, Arenas and Incursions for months now and I don't even have the will to play end game content.
So, back to the point, game mode rewards in general have been extremely bad for almost two years now that it's not even worth the time to play the game anymore. When players drag that feeling for months, no longer expect anything and still end up being disappointed cause of all the AI issues, bugs, dropped inputs, repetitive and recycled end game content, etc you end up questioning yourself...
Why even play a game that I no longer enjoy playing?
I've asked myself this question so many times for the last few months now and my most sincere response is this:
I've built strong bonds with my alliance and my teammates that even though I no longer enjoy playing this game I somehow enjoy helping them in their journey.
If it weren't because of that maybe silly way of friendship connection (I do have real life friends in my alliance) I would have quit this game months ago. And even now, I am at the point where that silly aspect that kept me attached to Mcoc is not enough anymore.
So all this said, what I really wish for aren't rewards at all, what I really want is a CHANCE to have FUN in this game again. That's the bottom line with the game right now, it's not fun to push, it's not fun to grind, it's not fun to spend, it's simply not fun play. And I know for a fact that many people feel this way.
There is absolutely ZERO justification that people working on the same path pull different rewards.
That is slimy at best.
There is absolutely ZERO justification that people who open the same crystals pull different champs.
Sounds silly doesn’t it?
Keeps things interesting I say
There's a HUGE difference between being able to "gamble" with earned set value rewards you gain with time, effort, knowledge and skill while having fun and playing the game.
And a totally different one when you have to gamble your way to earn those rewards with time, effort, knowledge and skill to once again gamble your way in order to actually obtain those rewards.
In scenario one your time is valuable, your effort is meaningful, your knowledge is worth investment and your skill is rewarded. In scenario two nothing matters. It's all about perspective, and that matters.
I honestly don’t care if it’s fixed or RNG as long as RNG is within a fair tolerance. How is 6* shard( shard…even a nexus would have been unfair, but shard? Shard?) part of nightmare boss crystal is beyond me. Whoever did that purposely wanted to cheese off people. There cannot be any fair logic for that.
Ngl for the effort it took to do Nightmare Raids (a lot are still stuck on Apoc or using units) and the bugs, they definitely should send out some additional comp since its too late to update the rewards . Its the worst feeling for someone to dive into their unit stash and then get 20 valiant crystals
Comments
Sure it was the chest and not the bugs and the ridiculous node interaction with the champ abilities. It was the RNG in chest that was announced before people joined.
The HUGE problem is game not being seen as a whole. While devs work around designing content with that premise, monetization strategies are in comparison implemented at catastrophical difference levels doing exactly the opposite.
There is no correlation between game design and monetization strategy goals (at least that's how it feels like). And I would even dare to say that is the reason why the game keeps evolving at a very rapid pace although game mode rewards are being restrained at its max. And this is also the reason why game mode rewards and stores get outdated very fast.
This has taken place for almost two years now and players are getting tired of it. It feels as if we were constantly begging to be properly rewarded for the game we play. And that right there is not a good thing because players will one day say enough is enough.
"If you dont like the new bg scoring system dont play" No. We showed them that we didnt want it, and why it wasnt feasible, and they took it back and reverted it to the original IN 24 HOURS. If you're one to sit down and take everything, the rest of the community isnt. You do you my guy but we wont sit there watching people quit the game because "they didnt like it so they shouldnt play"
Actually its the exact opposite for devs. If you don't like it and don't do it they would probably consider something they worked for so long to be a failure. Raids are worth the 180 tickets in an overall package of rewards if you count the glory, the exploration reward and the rng crates Now if you were spending units for revives that would probably make it not worthy.
Sounds silly doesn’t it?
Keeps things interesting I say
Players are always looking for chill alliances bcos they feel that the effort needed in the game doesn't pay off
Eventually the mode will die off after a few cycles bcos less players want to touch that mode
I also fought the same fight against the rng war season crystals back in the day even when I got the bigger peice of the pie.
I despised the fact that my officers in p1 alliance, who put up such great effort got shafted because of rng. And I as a normal member who got carried mostly, was new to top competitive AW, pulled triple thier rewards.
The selfish take on this one was that we were all irl friends and wanted everyone to be rewarded equally.
Was glad when they finally took the rng crystals away. Buffed and standardized AW rewards for everyone.
It's the same feeling, but I'm on the short side this time.
Epoch, ordeal, story, necro, everything still has crystals to pull different champs no one's fighting that, but raids is making it so even the initial reward set that you get from content is inconsistent between players which is the issue.
Imagine you did epoch of pain when it released u got half a t7 while ur friend got the full one and got his r4, even tho u did the exact same quest. thats what i mean
Should make it no variance in quantity, only a variance in type of item
Im a competitive valiant end game player. Just to put things into perspective, my alliance ranked 1st last BG season like many other times and we can't even open a basic 7* crystal from those rewards. I ranked top 4 during BG season anniversary realm event, and couldn't even open a Titan crystal. I've played Raids since it's release and all I've gotten are valiant crystals (ISO) and T6cc. The glory store is so outdated I've literally had Raids and AQ rank rewards expire many times because they are that irrelevant in today's game economy. I haven't played EQ, SQ, Arenas and Incursions for months now and I don't even have the will to play end game content.
So, back to the point, game mode rewards in general have been extremely bad for almost two years now that it's not even worth the time to play the game anymore. When players drag that feeling for months, no longer expect anything and still end up being disappointed cause of all the AI issues, bugs, dropped inputs, repetitive and recycled end game content, etc you end up questioning yourself...
Why even play a game that I no longer enjoy playing?
I've asked myself this question so many times for the last few months now and my most sincere response is this:
I've built strong bonds with my alliance and my teammates that even though I no longer enjoy playing this game I somehow enjoy helping them in their journey.
If it weren't because of that maybe silly way of friendship connection (I do have real life friends in my alliance) I would have quit this game months ago. And even now, I am at the point where that silly aspect that kept me attached to Mcoc is not enough anymore.
So all this said, what I really wish for aren't rewards at all, what I really want is a CHANCE to have FUN in this game again. That's the bottom line with the game right now, it's not fun to push, it's not fun to grind, it's not fun to spend, it's simply not fun play. And I know for a fact that many people feel this way.
If anything, rewards only serve as incentivizers.
And a totally different one when you have to gamble your way to earn those rewards with time, effort, knowledge and skill to once again gamble your way in order to actually obtain those rewards.
In scenario one your time is valuable, your effort is meaningful, your knowledge is worth investment and your skill is rewarded. In scenario two nothing matters. It's all about perspective, and that matters.