We have no hopes for mid falcon then. Pretty sure they increase his slow duration by 3 seconds and trauma potency by 5% and call it a day.
To be fair, I don't even think Torres needs that, just make his slow counter miss and let him gain a 3rd debilitate, and he's actually pretty stable.. the 3rd debilitate would lengthen his traumers too.. yeah he could do with more damage, but who doesn't
Back to Patriot Change ( I won't say buff, as it isn't).....
7 months though 😂😂😂.. seriously though, is kabams balance team hiring??? Ide love a job where we do bare minimum (joke, I'm sure they do more behind the scenes 👀 🙄)...
Y'all are funny, let's just conveniently ignore the other 8 buffs that went out this month
Dude You guys listed a bug fix as part of Viv buff 😂
Back to Patriot Change ( I won't say buff, as it isn't).....
7 months though 😂😂😂.. seriously though, is kabams balance team hiring??? Ide love a job where we do bare minimum (joke, I'm sure they do more behind the scenes 👀 🙄)...
Y'all are funny, let's just conveniently ignore the other 8 buffs that went out this month
I do joke, but in truth, I have tried to love Patriot for such a long time(due to photon being my pet hate to fight), and I've anticipated this buff for a loooooong time... And it seems sooooooo lack luster.. and 7 months for a balne, nearly one year since patriots release, really seems excessive
It fixes most of his biggest issues, what were you expecting them to change?
As right as you are, and I don't dispute that... It's actually nothing for near 8 months worth of wait and anticipation. look at spiderpunk, the slight changes they made, made a huge difference and impact and credit to the balance team for thatpatriot, ide still be surprised to see him in decks in mid to high level bgs (yes I have BGs brain rot in this instance) or in war attack for that matter.
The length of time for the buff is irrelevant to the point I'm making, though if the trade off is gaining a slightly stronger Patriot and losing out in the glorious guardians I'll take the 6 reworks we got because if the lighter load on rebalancing.
You literally said its not even a buff and that they didn't change anything meaningful and you can't tell me what you would change instead. It was always going to be a tune up to help him do what he does already a little better, it's not like they spent 8 months constantly tweaking it. I think the rebalance times count be a little shorter, spoken as someone that doesn't have any understanding of what that would actually mean for the people making the buffs, but you came out of the gate talking about how the buff didn't change anything which is objectively untrue
Reversal at 5 debuffs against science champs, at least then you could skip the sp1. Further increase his combo count on basic strikes for the likes of high Evo, maybe even an undermine type ability counter science auto lockers, Increase the duration precisions to coincide with the fury for starters.. just off the top of my head
Most of that doesn't even fall in the remit of what this buff was ever going to be. His combo gain on the sp1 is already enough to clear combo detonation from any character, the precision would be nice but when you consider they already boosted his damage by a fair bit giving him longer precision just feels like overkill too
As someone with a r3 patriot, i will say that i cant imagine using him in 99% of situations when i have better options. Imo he has one redeeming quality is the instant steadfast and i ranked him purely for that to counter node 42 spiderwoman as a last resource assignment. This balance doesn’t change how i play patriot, or why i want to use patriot. So ig he will be collect dust as a r3 till kabam decide to release another unblockable bg meta
Y’all wild for these takes. My 7* r2 w/ a 4* BP relic is blasting through RoL health pools in 40 seconds, no class advantage, hitting consistent medium crits at 22-45k damage (high end is with white tiger synergy).
Yeaaaah, I been trying him out in various places, and I so baaaadly wanted him to at least Feel different (remember how kabam use to emphasise "feel") and I've just seen Nick136's vid on him, who's known for being quite overly optimistic on champs, and even he's like Meeeeh he can't do anything new, or take anyone new, and he still suffers from despair... Sorry Kabam, this ain't it.. Huge fan of the other tune ups though especially cull..
Back to Patriot Change ( I won't say buff, as it isn't).....
7 months though 😂😂😂.. seriously though, is kabams balance team hiring??? Ide love a job where we do bare minimum (joke, I'm sure they do more behind the scenes 👀 🙄)...
Y'all are funny, let's just conveniently ignore the other 8 buffs that went out this month
Nexr time, do less buff butt in a better way. Changing some numbers isn t a great way to buff
Back to Patriot Change ( I won't say buff, as it isn't).....
7 months though 😂😂😂.. seriously though, is kabams balance team hiring??? Ide love a job where we do bare minimum (joke, I'm sure they do more behind the scenes 👀 🙄)...
Y'all are funny, let's just conveniently ignore the other 8 buffs that went out this month
Nexr time, do less buff butt in a better way. Changing some numbers isn t a great way to buff
Even if they were doing more buffs per month the buff would have been the same. It wasn't supposed to make him s monster, it was supposed to make him better at doing what he can and give him a bit more flexibility, which he has
Back to Patriot Change ( I won't say buff, as it isn't).....
7 months though 😂😂😂.. seriously though, is kabams balance team hiring??? Ide love a job where we do bare minimum (joke, I'm sure they do more behind the scenes 👀 🙄)...
Y'all are funny, let's just conveniently ignore the other 8 buffs that went out this month
Nexr time, do less buff butt in a better way. Changing some numbers isn t a great way to buff
Even if they were doing more buffs per month the buff would have been the same. It wasn't supposed to make him s monster, it was supposed to make him better at doing what he can and give him a bit more flexibility, which he has
The content of the buff itself is not an issue. The time it took to get this level of buff is the issue
Back to Patriot Change ( I won't say buff, as it isn't).....
7 months though 😂😂😂.. seriously though, is kabams balance team hiring??? Ide love a job where we do bare minimum (joke, I'm sure they do more behind the scenes 👀 🙄)...
Y'all are funny, let's just conveniently ignore the other 8 buffs that went out this month
I think the issue is this took the better part of a year. I realize there’s a formal buff *cadence* now, but come on…this type of tweak could have been dropped months ago.
My issue isnt even the "buff". Its his kit to begin with. He's basically created to kill Photon. Problem is he's not good against the science class in general. He puts debuffs on himself but doesnt remove debuffs which is a no no for some science champs bc they benefit from you having debuffs on said champ. Hes not good against the mystic class in general bc he still gains buffs. Throw mutant out of course. This is the issue with these super restrictive defenders. We need tough defenders but with the game going in the direction of needing a hard counter for these newer defenders to have success, the new attackers/counters that come later can sometimes end up being a good counter for that champ and not necessarily good in other places in general. Some are but this is how we end up with a Patriot or Falcon Joaquin. Im not ranking up Patriot up just to kill Photon and not really have use for him anywhere else. Wish he had more utility like an anti evade mechanism of some sort. Just my opinion. Everyone is respectfully entitled to theirs.
Y’all wild for these takes. My 7* r2 w/ a 4* BP relic is blasting through RoL health pools in 40 seconds, no class advantage, hitting consistent medium crits at 22-45k damage (high end is with white tiger synergy).
Where are you gonna use him in the game outside of fighting Photon? Im not attacking you. Im genuinely curious. I have him also btw.
My issue isnt even the "buff". Its his kit to begin with. He's basically created to kill Photon. Problem is he's not good against the science class in general. He puts debuffs on himself but doesnt remove debuffs which is a no no for some science champs bc they benefit from you having debuffs on said champ. Hes not good against the mystic class in general bc he still gains buffs. Throw mutant out of course. This is the issue with these super restrictive defenders. We need tough defenders but with the game going in the direction of needing a hard counter for these newer defenders to have success, the new attackers/counters that come later can sometimes end up being a good counter for that champ and not necessarily good in other places in general. Some are but this is how we end up with a Patriot or Falcon Joaquin. Im not ranking up Patriot up just to kill Photon and not really have use for him anywhere else. Wish he had more utility like an anti evade mechanism of some sort. Just my opinion. Everyone is respectfully entitled to theirs.
I re-read his kit today before I took my sig 60 Patriot for a spin, and it really is ridiculous how directly it matches Photon. Seems like a joke almost. Vigilance if you parry, steadfast for unblockable specials, can’t reduce his regen, applies weakness to the opponent to reduce block damage, etc etc. I really don’t know if DLL designed him over a weekend or what.
And the whole reversal mechanic still seems like it’s supposed to be some kind of big deal, but it’s just a gimmick. All I want is to gain the fury and precision so I can do some real damage. But to do it I have to back off, charge a heavy, hope the AI cooperates, and then after they get back up, you have to get another opening to actually use those juicy buffs.
My issue isnt even the "buff". Its his kit to begin with. He's basically created to kill Photon. Problem is he's not good against the science class in general. He puts debuffs on himself but doesnt remove debuffs which is a no no for some science champs bc they benefit from you having debuffs on said champ. Hes not good against the mystic class in general bc he still gains buffs. Throw mutant out of course. This is the issue with these super restrictive defenders. We need tough defenders but with the game going in the direction of needing a hard counter for these newer defenders to have success, the new attackers/counters that come later can sometimes end up being a good counter for that champ and not necessarily good in other places in general. Some are but this is how we end up with a Patriot or Falcon Joaquin. Im not ranking up Patriot up just to kill Photon and not really have use for him anywhere else. Wish he had more utility like an anti evade mechanism of some sort. Just my opinion. Everyone is respectfully entitled to theirs.
I re-read his kit today before I took my sig 60 Patriot for a spin, and it really is ridiculous how directly it matches Photon. Seems like a joke almost. Vigilance if you parry, steadfast for unblockable specials, can’t reduce his regen, applies weakness to the opponent to reduce block damage, etc etc. I really don’t know if DLL designed him over a weekend or what.
And the whole reversal mechanic still seems like it’s supposed to be some kind of big deal, but it’s just a gimmick. All I want is to gain the fury and precision so I can do some real damage. But to do it I have to back off, charge a heavy, hope the AI cooperates, and then after they get back up, you have to get another opening to actually use those juicy buffs.
I think DLL is brilliant and ive watched and listened to him for quite a while now. He seems to put more into and get more excited about defenders. What I gather from him is he wants very tough, restrictive defenders in the game and strong attackers that counter said defender. I asked him why we're getting so many restrictive defenders and his answer was because new attackers need targets. When is enough enough? The issue is they give these new defenders so many defensive abilities that when they create a counter it can sometimes come off gimmicky and not useful beyond being a counter to that specific defender. They're also trying to force us to use older champs that we normally dont have ranked up to counter a new defender. Im still not ranking them up to counter your restrictive, overtuned defenders. I respect all the devs but im not totally sold on the direction we're headed. The games not so fun to me right now.
We posted about the shift to Batch Updates a few months ago. There are various reasons why we shifted to Batch releases instead of the old system - one of them being, it does give us more time for full review where we can make sure if a Champion needs a tune up they get one.
...
It isn't about "waiting" to release his buff, it's about having an orderly process that allows the team to do their best work without having to crunch to unrealistic timelines.
I am pretty apologetic for my stance here Kabam - but you can't have it both ways. You can't say "it didn't take us seven months to rebalance Patriot" while also saying "we didn't have Patriot rebalanced before the seven months was over and just choose not to release him".
Like... okay I get the whole rebalance program cadence but, it really felt bad with Patriot here. I can appreciate that perhaps the old cadence was getting to be too much for the developers and something needed to give; but Patriot was released over a year ago and the people who do play him quite hard have been waiting for this almost as soon as he was released.
Waiting an entire year to find out how my champion will be adjusted is kind of wild.
Now, I'm not suggesting that you give us updates during the process, because with this community that would clearly be a nightmare. I'm also not suggesting that you go back to what it was. Yes, that rebalance cadence worked for the community but clearly it didn't work for the developers and frankly - they're the ones who matter here.
But can we please find some middle ground where, sure there's a standard and orderly process, but if there's a character like Viv Vision or Patriot who end up not taking the whole process to tweak... maybe give the community a treat and say "Hey, we're actually done early and pretty pleased with what we have. Here are some notes to look forward to." or... if actually possible, just push them live rather than wait for the deadline.
Stronger and longer physical Vulnerability, ruptures now last less time but do the same amount of damage for shorter fights, extended heavy charge duration and the lower threshold for steadfast
So nothing meaningful. Got it
Okay, I'm clearly all aboard the train in saying that Patriot shouldn't have taken this long to release. But if you actually think that:
Increasing the potency of his physical vulnerabilities by over 100% and extending their duration by 50% is "nothing meaningful" then respectfully, you either don't understand the character and numbers, or just never had realistic expectations for his rebalance.
The extended heavy alone is actually pretty huge piece of utility that transformed his Reversal from being "nice, but kind of niche" to "this is actually useful".
The shorter timeframe on his ruptures while leaving the potency the same as they were is another increase in damage.
He's doing much more damage overall in shorter windows and he's a lot smoother.
Patriot's rebalance may seem like only a few numbers were changed and a line was moved, but that's actually both quite meaningful as well as suggestive that his core kit was already quite good.
My issue isnt even the "buff". Its his kit to begin with. He's basically created to kill Photon. Problem is he's not good against the science class in general. He puts debuffs on himself but doesnt remove debuffs which is a no no for some science champs bc they benefit from you having debuffs on said champ. Hes not good against the mystic class in general bc he still gains buffs. Throw mutant out of course. This is the issue with these super restrictive defenders. We need tough defenders but with the game going in the direction of needing a hard counter for these newer defenders to have success, the new attackers/counters that come later can sometimes end up being a good counter for that champ and not necessarily good in other places in general. Some are but this is how we end up with a Patriot or Falcon Joaquin. Im not ranking up Patriot up just to kill Photon and not really have use for him anywhere else. Wish he had more utility like an anti evade mechanism of some sort. Just my opinion. Everyone is respectfully entitled to theirs.
I re-read his kit today before I took my sig 60 Patriot for a spin, and it really is ridiculous how directly it matches Photon. Seems like a joke almost. Vigilance if you parry, steadfast for unblockable specials, can’t reduce his regen, applies weakness to the opponent to reduce block damage, etc etc. I really don’t know if DLL designed him over a weekend or what.
And the whole reversal mechanic still seems like it’s supposed to be some kind of big deal, but it’s just a gimmick. All I want is to gain the fury and precision so I can do some real damage. But to do it I have to back off, charge a heavy, hope the AI cooperates, and then after they get back up, you have to get another opening to actually use those juicy buffs.
I think DLL is brilliant and ive watched and listened to him for quite a while now. He seems to put more into and get more excited about defenders. What I gather from him is he wants very tough, restrictive defenders in the game and strong attackers that counter said defender. I asked him why we're getting so many restrictive defenders and his answer was because new attackers need targets. When is enough enough? The issue is they give these new defenders so many defensive abilities that when they create a counter it can sometimes come off gimmicky and not useful beyond being a counter to that specific defender. They're also trying to force us to use older champs that we normally dont have ranked up to counter a new defender. Im still not ranking them up to counter your restrictive, overtuned defenders. I respect all the devs but im not totally sold on the direction we're headed. The games not so fun to me right now.
Yeah, he’s a great designer, which is what makes Patriot so odd. He’s faster sure, but still just feels like a Photon counter and not much else.
Overall, I think they are in a tough spot with champ design. They’ve got 300 under their belts and they’ve clearly gone all in on RPG as the defining characteristic of new champs. One champ counters another, then the next one counters the next one, on and on. New debuffs, new buffs and counter-buffs. I think it’s working to some extent and 2025 designs have been mostly fun. But eventually they’re gonna run out of runway and the snake is gonna eat its own tail.
What I’d really like to see is some kind of new game-wide mechanic that is accessible to all champs and opens up some new space in the gameplay — something truly new that’s not just another layer of RPG details.
In the whole video patriot is not fighting any "actual defenders" Other than his intended matchup of Photon, in the whole video he's fighting the fights that everyone else can fight but better 🥴
In the whole video patriot is not fighting any "actual defenders" Other than his intended matchup of Photon, in the whole video he's fighting the fights that everyone else can fight but better 🥴
Like what?
The only other good thing he mentioned is that aside from Photon, the only two relevant defenders he'll be able to handle are High Evo because of the combo counter thing he basically won't have to deal with the autoblock, and then eventually when Scorpion is released as a 7* he won't have to deal with the evade at all. That's basically it tho, his only uses for BGs for now will he Photon and High Evo which he will nuke in 40 secs, other than that no reason to use him. Personally I will keep him in my deck once High Evo is in the Titan because he will be one of the fastest counters for that, but if you want him only for Photon not worth it.
Back to Patriot Change ( I won't say buff, as it isn't).....
7 months though 😂😂😂.. seriously though, is kabams balance team hiring??? Ide love a job where we do bare minimum (joke, I'm sure they do more behind the scenes 👀 🙄)...
Y'all are funny, let's just conveniently ignore the other 8 buffs that went out this month
Nexr time, do less buff butt in a better way. Changing some numbers isn t a great way to buff
Even if they were doing more buffs per month the buff would have been the same. It wasn't supposed to make him s monster, it was supposed to make him better at doing what he can and give him a bit more flexibility, which he has
The content of the buff itself is not an issue. The time it took to get this level of buff is the issue
That isn't what the original post was saying though, they were saying that the buff was no different than his old kit.
We posted about the shift to Batch Updates a few months ago. There are various reasons why we shifted to Batch releases instead of the old system - one of them being, it does give us more time for full review where we can make sure if a Champion needs a tune up they get one.
At the end of the day, Patriot was already doing what he was supposed to do. The "disagree" count on the video I linked doesn't change the fact that Patriot can perform. It's totally fine to not like him, I don't personally enjoy using him - and I will never sit here and try to convince you to use a Champion you don't vibe with - but he's been obliterating higher-ranked Photons in 40 seconds in Battlegrounds since he was released.
After the buff, he'll be doing it even faster and easier.
It isn't about "waiting" to release his buff, it's about having an orderly process that allows the team to do their best work without having to crunch to unrealistic timelines.
mike you surely realise by the time you increase the numbers a tiny bit and make some adjustments, that let's be honest dont even improve the character that much, their kit is already on the verge of being obsolete?? You a member on the team know better than anyone else how fast things move in this game amd how quickly kits become obsolete when there's simply a better option available. I understand the reason for the batch release but by the time you do the buffs the buffed version would most likely already be dead too, so you might wanna talk to team about the sheer uselessness of taking more than half a year just for a slight tune up
Can we make the rebalance and buff program tier based to add more transparency to the process?
Level 1 rebalance - simple change in numbers, swapping of debuff type, increasing length of a buff or debuff to make timing more consistent or rotation easier to execute. Timeline should follow old rebalance program.
Level 2 - changes to the kits, special attacks, animations, interactions that could have a knock on effect on other parts of content - 3 to 6 months
Level 3 - iron man or cyclops level rehauls that is practially a new champ. Can even take a year here because it is like practically releasing a new champ that will hopefully be caught up to the meta of the game.
Comments
Huge fan of the other tune ups though especially cull..
Dr. Zola
And the whole reversal mechanic still seems like it’s supposed to be some kind of big deal, but it’s just a gimmick. All I want is to gain the fury and precision so I can do some real damage. But to do it I have to back off, charge a heavy, hope the AI cooperates, and then after they get back up, you have to get another opening to actually use those juicy buffs.
Like... okay I get the whole rebalance program cadence but, it really felt bad with Patriot here. I can appreciate that perhaps the old cadence was getting to be too much for the developers and something needed to give; but Patriot was released over a year ago and the people who do play him quite hard have been waiting for this almost as soon as he was released.
Waiting an entire year to find out how my champion will be adjusted is kind of wild.
Now, I'm not suggesting that you give us updates during the process, because with this community that would clearly be a nightmare. I'm also not suggesting that you go back to what it was. Yes, that rebalance cadence worked for the community but clearly it didn't work for the developers and frankly - they're the ones who matter here.
But can we please find some middle ground where, sure there's a standard and orderly process, but if there's a character like Viv Vision or Patriot who end up not taking the whole process to tweak... maybe give the community a treat and say "Hey, we're actually done early and pretty pleased with what we have. Here are some notes to look forward to." or... if actually possible, just push them live rather than wait for the deadline.
~*~
Now, on to the actual thread. Okay, I'm clearly all aboard the train in saying that Patriot shouldn't have taken this long to release. But if you actually think that:
Increasing the potency of his physical vulnerabilities by over 100% and extending their duration by 50% is "nothing meaningful" then respectfully, you either don't understand the character and numbers, or just never had realistic expectations for his rebalance.
The extended heavy alone is actually pretty huge piece of utility that transformed his Reversal from being "nice, but kind of niche" to "this is actually useful".
The shorter timeframe on his ruptures while leaving the potency the same as they were is another increase in damage.
He's doing much more damage overall in shorter windows and he's a lot smoother.
Patriot's rebalance may seem like only a few numbers were changed and a line was moved, but that's actually both quite meaningful as well as suggestive that his core kit was already quite good.
Overall, I think they are in a tough spot with champ design. They’ve got 300 under their belts and they’ve clearly gone all in on RPG as the defining characteristic of new champs. One champ counters another, then the next one counters the next one, on and on. New debuffs, new buffs and counter-buffs. I think it’s working to some extent and 2025 designs have been mostly fun. But eventually they’re gonna run out of runway and the snake is gonna eat its own tail.
What I’d really like to see is some kind of new game-wide mechanic that is accessible to all champs and opens up some new space in the gameplay — something truly new that’s not just another layer of RPG details.
How long’s it been since we saw a new mastery?
Other than his intended matchup of Photon, in the whole video he's fighting the fights that everyone else can fight but better 🥴
Like what?
Level 1 rebalance - simple change in numbers, swapping of debuff type, increasing length of a buff or debuff to make timing more consistent or rotation easier to execute. Timeline should follow old rebalance program.
Level 2 - changes to the kits, special attacks, animations, interactions that could have a knock on effect on other parts of content - 3 to 6 months
Level 3 - iron man or cyclops level rehauls that is practially a new champ. Can even take a year here because it is like practically releasing a new champ that will hopefully be caught up to the meta of the game.