Time to UN-NERF!

Run477 · April 2018

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Run477 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Dtl7714 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

You're comparing apples and oranges.

It is not an apples to oranges comparison. Kabaam's stated reason for nerfing those characters was that they were too powerful. They then turn around and release more powerful characters. Which means either they lied or the strength of those characters is no longer an issue. Either way unnerfing them isn't an unreasonable request

No. They didn't nerf then because they were powerful. They nerfed them because they couldn't create content that those Champs could not cut through. It wasn't just that they were OP. The Champs in combination with the Synergies and the old percentage-based system meant their strength multiplied exponentially. Which is why they also changed the system along with the nerfs. One Champ that has a very specific OP Ability that requires a very specific set of circumstances is not the same as a hot knife through warm butter like those Champs were. They were all-around OP. Nothing could really stop them. That's not the case with the new Champs, and just because one is strong at something doesn't mean it's the same situation. There's a misconception that the nerfs were to make all Champs equally powerful. That's not the case. Some Champs will have very strong skills in some areas, but none have a Swiss Army Knife quality like those Champs did.

Thank you for your glossed over revision of history.

The discussion on kabam supposedly not being able to create content that could stop a champ only applied to scarlet witch. But I could easily create content that would make witch less than ideal: status immune and soul imprisonment nodes—ie she basically turns into an unduped witch.

As for Thor, mere stun immunity made him worthless. As did champs like mordo or a cwbp on an armor tile mostly.

Additionally, there was plenty of content that strange and black widow couldn’t easily clear. Not really sure what synergies you think made them overly OP and unstoppable—please let me know.

What bw did have was ways to bypass the bs in the game causing unavoidable damage—like thorns or electro—as well as getting past crazy regen. In other words, she saved you potions in alliance war. As for strange, he had great regen, but you still had to have skill to use him.

Thor and especially witch were the ones this claim applied to.

Furthermore, your statement has zero relevance for the nerf to defensive regen, which basically nerfed entirely wolvie and mostly ultron from war defense. I still believe that nerf was mainly to be the final nail in the willpower coffin.

Now, from my perspective. I loved my witch, but she needs to stay nerfed. She was entirely way too OP. It was literaly just button mashing fights. Thor sucks now—he could use another stack or two of armor break imo to at least make him useful.

Sorry, that's not accurate at all. It's biased based on your opinions of the Champs.

Sorry, what’s based on my opinion of the champs? The fact that black widow couldn’t just go in and totally clear everything like scarlet witch? I’m confused. Please elaborate.

GroundedWisdom · April 2018

Run477 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Run477 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Dtl7714 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

You're comparing apples and oranges.

It is not an apples to oranges comparison. Kabaam's stated reason for nerfing those characters was that they were too powerful. They then turn around and release more powerful characters. Which means either they lied or the strength of those characters is no longer an issue. Either way unnerfing them isn't an unreasonable request

No. They didn't nerf then because they were powerful. They nerfed them because they couldn't create content that those Champs could not cut through. It wasn't just that they were OP. The Champs in combination with the Synergies and the old percentage-based system meant their strength multiplied exponentially. Which is why they also changed the system along with the nerfs. One Champ that has a very specific OP Ability that requires a very specific set of circumstances is not the same as a hot knife through warm butter like those Champs were. They were all-around OP. Nothing could really stop them. That's not the case with the new Champs, and just because one is strong at something doesn't mean it's the same situation. There's a misconception that the nerfs were to make all Champs equally powerful. That's not the case. Some Champs will have very strong skills in some areas, but none have a Swiss Army Knife quality like those Champs did.

Thank you for your glossed over revision of history.

The discussion on kabam supposedly not being able to create content that could stop a champ only applied to scarlet witch. But I could easily create content that would make witch less than ideal: status immune and soul imprisonment nodes—ie she basically turns into an unduped witch.

As for Thor, mere stun immunity made him worthless. As did champs like mordo or a cwbp on an armor tile mostly.

Additionally, there was plenty of content that strange and black widow couldn’t easily clear. Not really sure what synergies you think made them overly OP and unstoppable—please let me know.

What bw did have was ways to bypass the bs in the game causing unavoidable damage—like thorns or electro—as well as getting past crazy regen. In other words, she saved you potions in alliance war. As for strange, he had great regen, but you still had to have skill to use him.

Thor and especially witch were the ones this claim applied to.

Furthermore, your statement has zero relevance for the nerf to defensive regen, which basically nerfed entirely wolvie and mostly ultron from war defense. I still believe that nerf was mainly to be the final nail in the willpower coffin.

Now, from my perspective. I loved my witch, but she needs to stay nerfed. She was entirely way too OP. It was literaly just button mashing fights. Thor sucks now—he could use another stack or two of armor break imo to at least make him useful.

Sorry, that's not accurate at all. It's biased based on your opinions of the Champs.

Sorry, what’s based on my opinion of the champs? The fact that black widow couldn’t just go in and totally clear everything like scarlet witch? I’m confused. Please elaborate.

Each of those Champs had specific qualities that made them cut through content. 100% Ability Reduction with Synergies that boosted Crit in the old percentage-based system. If you'll notice, she doesn't 100% anything anymore. Just because they're not all Swiss Army Knives like SW and DS doesn't mean they weren't OP. The changes came with a reason.

phillgreen · April 2018

The change to DR and flat values should have been enough. Anything else could have been achieved with Nodes.

GroundedWisdom · April 2018

phillgreen wrote: »

The change to DR and flat values should have been enough. Anything else could have been achieved with Nodes.

They were part and parcel. Both were necessary. Those Champs couldn't perform the same if they wanted them to because of the new system.

Blitzkilla420 · April 2018

stick the to topic and facts and no one gets hurt

GroundedWisdom · April 2018

Bait and Switch involves the intention of selling something for the purpose of misleading people. The timeline of a couple months later may be coincidental, but that does not mean they sold him for the purpose of deceiving people. For that matter, they compensated greatly for those changes, twice.

Breakout · April 2018

time to lift that 50k damage limit for 5* SL!!! atleast for a r5

RichiesDad79 · April 2018

tufan_1974 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Dtl7714 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

You're comparing apples and oranges.

It is not an apples to oranges comparison. Kabaam's stated reason for nerfing those characters was that they were too powerful. They then turn around and release more powerful characters. Which means either they lied or the strength of those characters is no longer an issue. Either way unnerfing them isn't an unreasonable request

No. They didn't nerf then because they were powerful. They nerfed them because they couldn't create content that those Champs could not cut through. It wasn't just that they were OP. The Champs in combination with the Synergies and the old percentage-based system meant their strength multiplied exponentially. Which is why they also changed the system along with the nerfs. One Champ that has a very specific OP Ability that requires a very specific set of circumstances is not the same as a hot knife through warm butter like those Champs were. They were all-around OP. Nothing could really stop them. That's not the case with the new Champs, and just because one is strong at something doesn't mean it's the same situation. There's a misconception that the nerfs were to make all Champs equally powerful. That's not the case. Some Champs will have very strong skills in some areas, but none have a Swiss Army Knife quality like those Champs did.

Behold, kabam's advocate, whatever you say this guy will come and object and defend kabam to the death.

if not believe me check out his other posts

He's actually correct on this. A champ that requires a huge extensive setup process to start scoring massive damage (proxima) is not the same at all as a champ who can blow through any and everything with no prep and little skill (pre 12.0 Scarlet Witch). It really can be described as apples and oranges. It would be good to see these champs as 5 or 6*s though, even Wolverine.

GroundedWisdom · April 2018

No I don't. It's obvious you feel a certain way about their alleged tactics, and I don't agree, so I'm not feeding conspiracy.

GroundedWisdom · April 2018

No, the compensation was worth more than people would have spent. You're conjecturing that they intended to make sales knowing they would alter him. You do not know what they knew or did not know, or when the decision was made. I'm not sure where you're getting the millions from, but we don't know what they made on the sale of DS and the Rank-Up Packages. All you have is a timeline of 3 months later, and you're calling it Bait and Switch. They have the right to alter their product at any time, it's in the TOS, and is worth knowing before making purchases. If you feel wronged in some way that you feel your money should be refunded, it would technically be Fraudulent because it's their product. You're welcome to try and get it back from Apple or Android against the TOS, but in doing so, if you continue to play, the onus is on you.

phillgreen · April 2018

In my opinion, any champion that has no plans for release as 5* or 6* should be adjusted upwards in their 4* version.

Even if blade etc are not released as 6* they will still be used heavily because they are great at what they do and the right 5/65 will still kick plenty of backside.

5/50's won't work anywhere in 18 months.

GroundedWisdom · April 2018

They couldn't if they wanted to. DR and Flat-Rate won't allow those Champs to perform as they did. That's what I said a few comments back.

Blitzkilla420 · April 2018

Cable wrote: »

Blitzkilla420 wrote: »

@Cable stick to the topic. trust me on this..

You are correct. The champs that were nerfed at 12.0 should be changed back to their original states prior to 12.0 with the exception of SW. She is fine where she is at now.

i mean be careful with who you argue with on these forums bro..youll end up getting warned and then jailed and then banned cause some ppl here are so stubborn no matter how many times you prove them wrong

FabiusBR · April 2018

As someone who has played the game since Dec. of 2014 and who had all of the God tier champs before they were nerfed, my observation is this. The game was much more FUN back then. I was in a top Alliance, doing AQ and AW every day. Now, I have hundreds of champs who are just Arena fodder, I have little incentive to grind for more and have moved to a Retirement alliance with 16 other members who feel the same. The game is more frustration than fun now. So, the 12.0 and subsequent changes have, IMO, ruined the game by depriving us of the only reward worth achieving in the game - powerful champs that we can enjoy using.

mostlyharmlessn · April 2018

Dr. Strange was the hardest hit of them all. It was a second change to him. Now he needs Mephisto synergy to regen a decent amount. (additional 70%). Would would be really nice though is to restore Dr. Strange's timer between cycles to pre-12.0

DrZola · April 2018

What's missing here is the justification for not releasing any of the 12.0 victims as 5* champions. Their abilities are already significantly diminished, so the only real issue would be putting them on the same CR footing as some of the opponents a player would face--some, not all, since 6*'s are now in the game and would have a CR advantage over them. 6*'s were just a twinkle in Kabam's eye when 12.0 dropped.

If the issue is SW or even Thor, then don't include them in the 5* pool. Doc and BW have been hit so hard that it scarcely unbalances the game to have them as 5*'s. It would also alleviate the somewhat ridiculous situation with the recent Infinity War crystals--which had the whole Avengers team available as 4/5*'s, except of course for 25% of the champs in the crystal who weren't available as 5*'s at all. It feels like this is yet another one of those neglected areas of the game (Loyalty Store, Quest Crystals, XP) that haven't kept up with where the game has gone. Anyone paying attention to the whole game, or is the team just focused on churning out more of the same EQs and offers?

Dr. Zola

Zero0978 · April 2018

This is why my Dr. Strange, SW, & BW are still r4. Thor is the only one I took r5 and that was only for the purpose of AQ, since he is worthless in AW.

mum_m2 · April 2018

I know this is only my opinion, but SW and Thor don't even do what they do best. SW is still very good, but there are champs that do what she does better. Wolverine is the only one I wouldn't release as a 5* in the current shape of the game. but I could make that same argument for blade too. I'm not asking for any of that. I want to see all of these avengers in the 5* basic crystal. Dr. Strange, Thor, SW, BW, or at least somehow make them a trophy champ.

Shroud1969 · April 2018

Great conversation.

I'm OK with Thor (sig 99 - still use him a ton - agree he could use one more AB) - SW (about perfect where she is in terms of balance) - BW (she's kinda meh now but still useful - esp vs. Spidey, MODOK, and Void - I wish she could still block break on normal hits - that was a great "bug" that actually made the game fun - and with evade made her a scary defender).

DS on the other hand is an absolute embarrassment for such a popular character (12.0 debacle aside). His counterspell sig could be (and is) incredibly useful. His armor buff is "meh" -but OK if you don't get hit - he's a pretty nimble champ. His regen sucks but is largely fixed with the Mephisto synergy. DSs main issue is the powergain. OMG it is sooooooooooooooooooo slooooooooooowwwww. Even as a defender with MD, he's dead before he hits S1. It could be easily fixed by just allowing him to power gain with normal hits - like Hyperion.

The main issue I actually have with his power gain is that it is mistimed for most fights. By the time you get to S2 you shift out of the fury buff and have to wait an entire cycle.

TL;DR - Stupid easy fix for DS is to just allow him to powergain on regular hits. Would make him an "amazing tier" attacker instantly.

Time to UN-NERF!

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