Nope what I’m most concerned about is them changing or giving the wrong information. People make mistakes, but they’ve clearly known this was an issue for a while seeing as they’ve fixed it. Not once did they ever come out and correct that post or notify people that it was an issue they were looking at. Not saying they will, but it sets the precedent that they could do this with anything else anytime they want. That’s my concern
How long you been playing this game? Cause them giving wrong info or changing a champ happens a good bit. People are really trying hard to make this much more then it is.
You have an example of a full 180 on a specific matter such as this? 1 mod says working as intended, no other updates or discussions, then... Surprise! "sucks for you but the exact opposite of what we told you is now true
Yes 12.0 nerf. Same thing we are not going to nerf champs then we did.
Nope what I’m most concerned about is them changing or giving the wrong information. People make mistakes, but they’ve clearly known this was an issue for a while seeing as they’ve fixed it. Not once did they ever come out and correct that post or notify people that it was an issue they were looking at. Not saying they will, but it sets the precedent that they could do this with anything else anytime they want. That’s my concern
How long you been playing this game? Cause them giving wrong info or changing a champ happens a good bit. People are really trying hard to make this much more then it is.
Oh right, so because they spread misinformation often it’s fine every time they do it? Just shrug and say “oh well this happens a good bit.”
It’s not so much about the misinformation but the fact that people are complaining cause you can’t stun stun immune champs big deal oh well.
Nope what I’m most concerned about is them changing or giving the wrong information. People make mistakes, but they’ve clearly known this was an issue for a while seeing as they’ve fixed it. Not once did they ever come out and correct that post or notify people that it was an issue they were looking at. Not saying they will, but it sets the precedent that they could do this with anything else anytime they want. That’s my concern
How long you been playing this game? Cause them giving wrong info or changing a champ happens a good bit. People are really trying hard to make this much more then it is.
Oh right, so because they spread misinformation often it’s fine every time they do it? Just shrug and say “oh well this happens a good bit.”
It’s not so much about the misinformation but the fact that people are complaining cause you can’t stun stun immune champs big deal oh well.
Don't think that's the complaint. It's simply that a user specifically asked about that ability and was told by a mod it's working as intended. Straightforward. Not even an "at this time" added as a loophole. Then the mod closed the thread because there was no more discussion necessary. Then today comes and they basically say "Welp, **** happens"
Nope what I’m most concerned about is them changing or giving the wrong information. People make mistakes, but they’ve clearly known this was an issue for a while seeing as they’ve fixed it. Not once did they ever come out and correct that post or notify people that it was an issue they were looking at. Not saying they will, but it sets the precedent that they could do this with anything else anytime they want. That’s my concern
How long you been playing this game? Cause them giving wrong info or changing a champ happens a good bit. People are really trying hard to make this much more then it is.
Oh right, so because they spread misinformation often it’s fine every time they do it? Just shrug and say “oh well this happens a good bit.”
It’s not so much about the misinformation but the fact that people are complaining cause you can’t stun stun immune champs big deal oh well.
I think the reason the majority of people are annoyed is that how can we trust what kabam says if they themselves don’t know what’s going on. The moderators are here to give us information, or at least that’s one role, and we believe that they pass on the truth. If we cannot guarantee that the information given to us is true then that sets a terrible precedent for an official forum.
Nope what I’m most concerned about is them changing or giving the wrong information. People make mistakes, but they’ve clearly known this was an issue for a while seeing as they’ve fixed it. Not once did they ever come out and correct that post or notify people that it was an issue they were looking at. Not saying they will, but it sets the precedent that they could do this with anything else anytime they want. That’s my concern
How long you been playing this game? Cause them giving wrong info or changing a champ happens a good bit. People are really trying hard to make this much more then it is.
The mods and the developers have volunteered information that has been in error in the past. Mistakes happen. However, to the best of my knowledge this is the first time I can recall when a Kabam employee stated directly that a game behavior was explicitly intended in response to a specific question about it, and that information turned out to be false.
Calculations can be wrong. Understanding of mechanics can be wrong. Typographical errors happen, and people can misstate things or simply be very bad communicators. But whether something is explicitly intended or not is a yes or no thing with no ambiguity and no possibility of admitting a small error. A developer with first hand knowledge has to explicitly state that this is intended for anyone to believe it was, moderators included.
And although this is not the case in this situation, the question of whether something is intended or not factors into whether something is classified as an exploit or not, a topic that players have become sensitized to recently.
@Bahamut I think if you look at @BitterSteel and @LeNoirFaineant and @DNA3000 comments on the main threads for this issue, you have a fairly clear picture of what’s problematic here.
Being able to stun an enemy who’s immune to stun is kind of stupid.
now, back to the original topic, let me offer a new point of view:
one reason why people might be angry is because kabam choose to spend time/effort/resources on fixing these bugs instead of spending said time/effort/resources into fixing bugs that hinder us and/or otherwise are more important and should be higher on the priority list
I do agree with that. But I find it ridiculous that people are asking for AA specific rank down tickets because he’s got the same limitations as everyone else who can stun.
Are u really reading the same story? AA was used to bypass stun immune because his neurotoxins reduce ability accuracy. This is a mutant rank down ticket worthy. This is a giant change to a champ that had immunity limitations. Now this nerf removes him from god tier to demigod.
Being able to stun an enemy who’s immune to stun is kind of stupid.
now, back to the original topic, let me offer a new point of view:
one reason why people might be angry is because kabam choose to spend time/effort/resources on fixing these bugs instead of spending said time/effort/resources into fixing bugs that hinder us and/or otherwise are more important and should be higher on the priority list
I do agree with that. But I find it ridiculous that people are asking for AA specific rank down tickets because he’s got the same limitations as everyone else who can stun.
Are u really reading the same story? AA was used to bypass stun immune because his neurotoxins reduce ability accuracy. This is a mutant rank down ticket worthy. This is a giant change to a champ that had immunity limitations. Now this nerf removes him from god tier to demigod.
Is ability accuracy reduction supposed to affect immunities? No. Because if it did, Blade could make Ultron and Dormammu bleed.
Being able to stun an enemy who’s immune to stun is kind of stupid.
now, back to the original topic, let me offer a new point of view:
one reason why people might be angry is because kabam choose to spend time/effort/resources on fixing these bugs instead of spending said time/effort/resources into fixing bugs that hinder us and/or otherwise are more important and should be higher on the priority list
I do agree with that. But I find it ridiculous that people are asking for AA specific rank down tickets because he’s got the same limitations as everyone else who can stun.
Are u really reading the same story? AA was used to bypass stun immune because his neurotoxins reduce ability accuracy. This is a mutant rank down ticket worthy. This is a giant change to a champ that had immunity limitations. Now this nerf removes him from god tier to demigod.
Ability accuracy is actually not relevant to what occurred here. Neurotoxin is defined to be a passive effect in the game, which means it is not a debuff and doesn't honor debuff rules. When Neurotoxin expires it generates a stun. Normally, stuns are debuffs and obey debuff rules, including whether something is immune to that debuff or not. Instead, the designer accidentally designed the stun that neurotoxin generates to also be a passive effect. That means that stun also ignored all normal debuff rules, including those that would make a target stun immune.
That's why AA's neurotoxin stun affected stun immune targets. It wasn't because neurotoxin removed stun immunity. Neurotoxin still works identically to how it worked prior to 18.1. It was because the stun was designed to basically ignore the normal game mechanics rules.
Being able to stun an enemy who’s immune to stun is kind of stupid.
now, back to the original topic, let me offer a new point of view:
one reason why people might be angry is because kabam choose to spend time/effort/resources on fixing these bugs instead of spending said time/effort/resources into fixing bugs that hinder us and/or otherwise are more important and should be higher on the priority list
I do agree with that. But I find it ridiculous that people are asking for AA specific rank down tickets because he’s got the same limitations as everyone else who can stun.
Are u really reading the same story? AA was used to bypass stun immune because his neurotoxins reduce ability accuracy. This is a mutant rank down ticket worthy. This is a giant change to a champ that had immunity limitations. Now this nerf removes him from god tier to demigod.
Ability accuracy is actually not relevant to what occurred here. Neurotoxin is defined to be a passive effect in the game, which means it is not a debuff and doesn't honor debuff rules. When Neurotoxin expires it generates a stun. Normally, stuns are debuffs and obey debuff rules, including whether something is immune to that debuff or not. Instead, the designer accidentally designed the stun that neurotoxin generates to also be a passive effect. That means that stun also ignored all normal debuff rules, including those that would make a target stun immune.
That's why AA's neurotoxin stun affected stun immune targets. It wasn't because neurotoxin removed stun immunity. Neurotoxin still works identically to how it worked prior to 18.1. It was because the stun was designed to basically ignore the normal game mechanics rules.
Totally disagree. If it was like this since he was released why take that long to fix???? People were using AA to take down stun immune nodes in Aw and to take AV and some other LOL champs, fact.
Is ability accuracy reduction supposed to affect immunities?
i have done research on certain modes like RttL and from what i've read, champs with ability accuracy reduction have a chance to bypass safeguard. supposedly this is working as intended. so, abilities can bypass nodes
Safeguard apparently has a proc chance which is normally 100%. Ability accuracy reduction can thus affect it, because there's an ability accuracy to affect. Same goes for certain other effects that at first glance just always work like Ultron's heal. That heal also has a 100% proc chance "under the hood" by default, so again ability accuracy reduction can affect it.
To the best of my knowledge, no entity in the game has a chance for immunity, even a 100% chance. If an immunity effect doesn't have a chance to occur (even a 100% chance under the hood) then ability accuracy cannot affect that effect. This is true regardless of whether the ability is coming from a champion or from a buffing node.
Being able to stun an enemy who’s immune to stun is kind of stupid.
now, back to the original topic, let me offer a new point of view:
one reason why people might be angry is because kabam choose to spend time/effort/resources on fixing these bugs instead of spending said time/effort/resources into fixing bugs that hinder us and/or otherwise are more important and should be higher on the priority list
I do agree with that. But I find it ridiculous that people are asking for AA specific rank down tickets because he’s got the same limitations as everyone else who can stun.
Are u really reading the same story? AA was used to bypass stun immune because his neurotoxins reduce ability accuracy. This is a mutant rank down ticket worthy. This is a giant change to a champ that had immunity limitations. Now this nerf removes him from god tier to demigod.
Is ability accuracy reduction supposed to affect immunities?
It is when Kabam says it is. And for AA, they did. That’s the point everyone is making. All we have to go on is what Kabam says. If we can’t believe what they say, then what’s the point?
Being able to stun an enemy who’s immune to stun is kind of stupid.
now, back to the original topic, let me offer a new point of view:
one reason why people might be angry is because kabam choose to spend time/effort/resources on fixing these bugs instead of spending said time/effort/resources into fixing bugs that hinder us and/or otherwise are more important and should be higher on the priority list
I do agree with that. But I find it ridiculous that people are asking for AA specific rank down tickets because he’s got the same limitations as everyone else who can stun.
Are u really reading the same story? AA was used to bypass stun immune because his neurotoxins reduce ability accuracy. This is a mutant rank down ticket worthy. This is a giant change to a champ that had immunity limitations. Now this nerf removes him from god tier to demigod.
Ability accuracy is actually not relevant to what occurred here. Neurotoxin is defined to be a passive effect in the game, which means it is not a debuff and doesn't honor debuff rules. When Neurotoxin expires it generates a stun. Normally, stuns are debuffs and obey debuff rules, including whether something is immune to that debuff or not. Instead, the designer accidentally designed the stun that neurotoxin generates to also be a passive effect. That means that stun also ignored all normal debuff rules, including those that would make a target stun immune.
That's why AA's neurotoxin stun affected stun immune targets. It wasn't because neurotoxin removed stun immunity. Neurotoxin still works identically to how it worked prior to 18.1. It was because the stun was designed to basically ignore the normal game mechanics rules.
Totally disagree. If it was like this since he was released why take that long to fix???? People were using AA to take down stun immune nodes in Aw and to take AV and some other LOL champs, fact.
You can disagree all you want but all of kabam’s statements about this prove you’re wrong.
Being able to stun an enemy who’s immune to stun is kind of stupid.
now, back to the original topic, let me offer a new point of view:
one reason why people might be angry is because kabam choose to spend time/effort/resources on fixing these bugs instead of spending said time/effort/resources into fixing bugs that hinder us and/or otherwise are more important and should be higher on the priority list
I do agree with that. But I find it ridiculous that people are asking for AA specific rank down tickets because he’s got the same limitations as everyone else who can stun.
Are u really reading the same story? AA was used to bypass stun immune because his neurotoxins reduce ability accuracy. This is a mutant rank down ticket worthy. This is a giant change to a champ that had immunity limitations. Now this nerf removes him from god tier to demigod.
Ability accuracy is actually not relevant to what occurred here. Neurotoxin is defined to be a passive effect in the game, which means it is not a debuff and doesn't honor debuff rules. When Neurotoxin expires it generates a stun. Normally, stuns are debuffs and obey debuff rules, including whether something is immune to that debuff or not. Instead, the designer accidentally designed the stun that neurotoxin generates to also be a passive effect. That means that stun also ignored all normal debuff rules, including those that would make a target stun immune.
That's why AA's neurotoxin stun affected stun immune targets. It wasn't because neurotoxin removed stun immunity. Neurotoxin still works identically to how it worked prior to 18.1. It was because the stun was designed to basically ignore the normal game mechanics rules.
Totally disagree. If it was like this since he was released why take that long to fix???? People were using AA to take down stun immune nodes in Aw and to take AV and some other LOL champs, fact.
You can disagree all you want. The fact of the matter is, this explanation agrees with the patch notes, and your explanation would require that ability accuracy reduction affect stun immunity, which it never does anywhere in the game. Also, unawakened Archangel stuns stun immune champions in exactly the same way that awakened Archangel does, and unawakened Archangel doesn't reduce ability accuracy with neurotoxin. The stun mechanics were thus never about ability accuracy reduction.
If I had to guess, I'd guess that this wasn't a high priority for them to work on until players started to use the effect against Infinity Thanos, whereupon it became a higher priority for them to address. I doubt it took long to change it, it took a long time for them to decide to look at it at all.
If I had to guess, I'd guess that this wasn't a high priority for them to work on until players started to use the effect against Infinity Thanos, whereupon it became a higher priority for them to address. I doubt it took long to change it, it took a long time for them to decide to look at it at all.
Lol, after thousands have used AA for LOL and AW for the same reason?
I have AA and love it , I will see what s happening after June 4 , but 100% people that asking for rank down tickets will not rank down AA , it will be cool if they really get rank down tickets these guys should be obligated to rank him down and not be able to rank him back up till they are ranking 4 another 2 champs . In this situation they will use their t2 alpha and have to work hard to get another 4 to rank him up ahahhah
I would 100% rank down AA.
I'm perfectly fine with a champion specific rank down ticket. I would use it.
We were told it wasn't a bug and made rank up decisions based upon what we were told.
Now we're told it was a bug and they've removed the ability.
That's fine, but everyone who ranked up AA for this specific utility and was misinformed by the staff here clearly deserves access to a rank down ticket. AA is still pretty good but I don't really want mine at r4 anymore after this change. I'm not sure I would've ever sunk t2a into him without this ability. Since the stafff gave incorrect information to the player base and the player base then made rank up decisions based upon this incorrect information, this is a clear cut case of a situation that merits a rank down ticket.
You don't want him at rank 4 because you now realize he's a niche champ and not worth the t2a, don't lie and say it's because of this change
Those stuns were part of his niche. Without them, I have better places to put my t2a.
I only use him for war and to take out the stun immune mini, now I wont be able to use him like before. Changes the value of the champ they said was working correctly now the value of the t2A I invested in are watered down. I have completed everything in the game except a few LOL paths, when you invest $100 in awakening gems for specific champs and more for t2a it is really a head scratcher. Why offer something for people to buy and invest in then change then value whenever you feel like. Seems like its time to retire at the end of this war season, been playing video games for over 30 years and never seen this in any other game. Big waste of time and money.
Just my 2 cents... The problem is not they took that long to fix, the problem is they took that long to announce it was a bug after announcing that Archangel was working as intended. That means they can basically nerf every champion whenever they want using the same "bug story".
Comments
It’s not so much about the misinformation but the fact that people are complaining cause you can’t stun stun immune champs big deal oh well.
That hasn’t been affected by the ability change at all.
Don't think that's the complaint. It's simply that a user specifically asked about that ability and was told by a mod it's working as intended. Straightforward. Not even an "at this time" added as a loophole. Then the mod closed the thread because there was no more discussion necessary. Then today comes and they basically say "Welp, **** happens"
Doctor Voodoo invisible debuff removed lowering his regeneration, no rank down..
GP bleed from heavy attack dropped from 50% to 5%, no rank down..
I wouldn't hold your breath guys..
I don't have AA so this change doesn't effect me but the other 3 changes did so I know your frustration..
I think the reason the majority of people are annoyed is that how can we trust what kabam says if they themselves don’t know what’s going on. The moderators are here to give us information, or at least that’s one role, and we believe that they pass on the truth. If we cannot guarantee that the information given to us is true then that sets a terrible precedent for an official forum.
The mods and the developers have volunteered information that has been in error in the past. Mistakes happen. However, to the best of my knowledge this is the first time I can recall when a Kabam employee stated directly that a game behavior was explicitly intended in response to a specific question about it, and that information turned out to be false.
Calculations can be wrong. Understanding of mechanics can be wrong. Typographical errors happen, and people can misstate things or simply be very bad communicators. But whether something is explicitly intended or not is a yes or no thing with no ambiguity and no possibility of admitting a small error. A developer with first hand knowledge has to explicitly state that this is intended for anyone to believe it was, moderators included.
And although this is not the case in this situation, the question of whether something is intended or not factors into whether something is classified as an exploit or not, a topic that players have become sensitized to recently.
I understand that. It is that little baby stun on unstunables that put it over the top.
Dr. Zola
Are u really reading the same story? AA was used to bypass stun immune because his neurotoxins reduce ability accuracy. This is a mutant rank down ticket worthy. This is a giant change to a champ that had immunity limitations. Now this nerf removes him from god tier to demigod.
Is ability accuracy reduction supposed to affect immunities? No. Because if it did, Blade could make Ultron and Dormammu bleed.
Ability accuracy is actually not relevant to what occurred here. Neurotoxin is defined to be a passive effect in the game, which means it is not a debuff and doesn't honor debuff rules. When Neurotoxin expires it generates a stun. Normally, stuns are debuffs and obey debuff rules, including whether something is immune to that debuff or not. Instead, the designer accidentally designed the stun that neurotoxin generates to also be a passive effect. That means that stun also ignored all normal debuff rules, including those that would make a target stun immune.
That's why AA's neurotoxin stun affected stun immune targets. It wasn't because neurotoxin removed stun immunity. Neurotoxin still works identically to how it worked prior to 18.1. It was because the stun was designed to basically ignore the normal game mechanics rules.
Totally disagree. If it was like this since he was released why take that long to fix???? People were using AA to take down stun immune nodes in Aw and to take AV and some other LOL champs, fact.
Safeguard apparently has a proc chance which is normally 100%. Ability accuracy reduction can thus affect it, because there's an ability accuracy to affect. Same goes for certain other effects that at first glance just always work like Ultron's heal. That heal also has a 100% proc chance "under the hood" by default, so again ability accuracy reduction can affect it.
To the best of my knowledge, no entity in the game has a chance for immunity, even a 100% chance. If an immunity effect doesn't have a chance to occur (even a 100% chance under the hood) then ability accuracy cannot affect that effect. This is true regardless of whether the ability is coming from a champion or from a buffing node.
It is when Kabam says it is. And for AA, they did. That’s the point everyone is making. All we have to go on is what Kabam says. If we can’t believe what they say, then what’s the point?
You can disagree all you want but all of kabam’s statements about this prove you’re wrong.
You can disagree all you want. The fact of the matter is, this explanation agrees with the patch notes, and your explanation would require that ability accuracy reduction affect stun immunity, which it never does anywhere in the game. Also, unawakened Archangel stuns stun immune champions in exactly the same way that awakened Archangel does, and unawakened Archangel doesn't reduce ability accuracy with neurotoxin. The stun mechanics were thus never about ability accuracy reduction.
If I had to guess, I'd guess that this wasn't a high priority for them to work on until players started to use the effect against Infinity Thanos, whereupon it became a higher priority for them to address. I doubt it took long to change it, it took a long time for them to decide to look at it at all.
Lol, after thousands have used AA for LOL and AW for the same reason?
I would 100% rank down AA.
I'm perfectly fine with a champion specific rank down ticket. I would use it.
Those stuns were part of his niche. Without them, I have better places to put my t2a.