Remember the time when Scarlett witch,Thor, and doctor strange were all nerfed? And do you also remember along with all the nerfs kabam messed up parry and block proficiency? Their excuse? The game needed to become more skill based. Within the last couple of months we’ve gotten so many auto block champs or champs where you take damage for simply playing (domino). The game is becoming less skill based and more about having champs that you really can’t counter. Yes maybe true strike can counter this but how many champs actually have the same kinda damage as ss,Medusa, or blade that have true strike. What are you doing kabam skill isn’t helping me get anywhere at this point
I suppose it is a matter of perspective. All of these new champions is forcing me to develop better combat skills, as I see it. True: if you bring a totally mismatched champion into a fight you could be so disadvantaged that your skills aren't enough, but I don't see any fight as being entirely impossible to win on skill. It is just that a lot more of them require a much higher level of skill.
When people say skill is less important in the game, I think it is really that certain skills are less dominant in the game, and they aren't being replaced by other skills. If you think "skill" is synonymous with "parry" then skill is less important now than before. But if you think skill includes intercept, skill is just as important. And with some fights, like say Modok or IMIW, the *timing* of when you do something is just as critical as what you do, like heavy-countering IMIW. I'm at best a 50/50 heavy counterer against IMIW, but that's a valid skill based way to fight him. The fact that he auto-blocks doesn't matter if you use unblockable attacks, and heavy attacks have been unblockable since forever. It is just that they weren't as important earlier as they are now.
Whether they should be changing the effectiveness of tactics as quickly as they are is a separate question, but they are changing in ways that most of the time have skill components to countering.
When people say skill is less important in the game, I think it is really that certain skills are less dominant in the game, and they aren't being replaced by other skills. If you think "skill" is synonymous with "parry" then skill is less important now than before. But if you think skill includes intercept, skill is just as important. And with some fights, like say Modok or IMIW, the *timing* of when you do something is just as critical as what you do, like heavy-countering IMIW. I'm at best a 50/50 heavy counterer against IMIW, but that's a valid skill based way to fight him. The fact that he auto-blocks doesn't matter if you use unblockable attacks, and heavy attacks have been unblockable since forever. It is just that they weren't as important earlier as they are now.
Whether they should be changing the effectiveness of tactics as quickly as they are is a separate question, but they are changing in ways that most of the time have skill components to countering.
Intercepting is becoming the most important skill in MCOC. We're getting nodes that reduce our champions' block proficiency to 0, even Blade struggles against such nodes if he doesn't intercept. Intercepting takes time and practice to learn, no one solos a 4/55+ Dormammu boss with Magik without practicing for months. Labyrinth of Legends EX Red Hulk and EX Star Lord are the best opponents to practice intercepting against, low energy cost and their AI is similar to game modes like Uncollected Event Quests, Act 5, and Alliance War.
When people say skill is less important in the game, I think it is really that certain skills are less dominant in the game, and they aren't being replaced by other skills. If you think "skill" is synonymous with "parry" then skill is less important now than before. But if you think skill includes intercept, skill is just as important. And with some fights, like say Modok or IMIW, the *timing* of when you do something is just as critical as what you do, like heavy-countering IMIW. I'm at best a 50/50 heavy counterer against IMIW, but that's a valid skill based way to fight him. The fact that he auto-blocks doesn't matter if you use unblockable attacks, and heavy attacks have been unblockable since forever. It is just that they weren't as important earlier as they are now.
Whether they should be changing the effectiveness of tactics as quickly as they are is a separate question, but they are changing in ways that most of the time have skill components to countering.
Intercepting is becoming the most important skill in MCOC.
And I don't think it did so suddenly either. Intercepting was starting to creep into the game as an important skill since before Dave made his intercept video. I don't think intercepting became suddenly necessary, I think intercepting became increasingly valuable while block/parry became less useful, and most of the players only noticed when a critical threshold was reached where block/parry decreased to the point where it wasn't enough, and players had to suddenly jump to a tactic that wasn't practiced at all. But I think long before players thought it became necessary, it was becoming increasingly valuable in stages.
@Namelez I get there are champs that can counter but how often do you see people bring a Karnak or cable into lol or rol??? I’m talking champs who have better than average attack and can actually handle a medusa boss without running outta time plus heimdall just came out and today it’s almost impossible to dupe the 5* champ you actually want I’m not going to waste my t2 alpha brining a 5* king pin or elektra to r4 and on stun immune it’s kinda hard to get heavies in (unless all the heavie are like imiw)
There isnt any auto block champs in ROL or LOL. And heavy intercept is not hard at all
Medusa- SW is one of the best and pretty much any champ out there can counter her.
Thor Rag- A non issue as well. Never had a problem with him. Bleed him to death with Wolvie or X-23.
IMIW- Use heavy counters. There are plenty of videos on countering him.
Domino- SL works great. Hulk Rags works great.
Really SW? what tier are you fighting in? Id love to see a video of you soloing a 67000 medusa boss with SW in tier 1-3.
@Nick_Caine_32
Your points are valid. But not everyone can afford to play the game like it's a full time job. My point being if you can't afford to play the game non stop every day for arena grinds and everything else then you can't keep up without being forced to spend.
Keep up with whom? If you mean the people who are playing a lot more than you, then yes, if you play a lot less than them, you won't keep up with them. That's actually a good thing. If someone who only plays for a little while could keep up with the players playing longer and spending more, the game would be entirely pointless.
What you have to be is satisfied with the progress you can make, given the time you put in. My guess is that my progress is a lot more than yours, and you aren't catching up with me. Conversely, I'm not one of the top players in the game, and I'm never catching up with them. There's nothing wrong with that. If you're only willing to play basketball if you can beat Michael Jordan, and only willing to play golf if you can "catch up" to Tiger Woods, then the odds are pretty good you'll never be happy playing any game or sport.
Medusa- SW is one of the best and pretty much any champ out there can counter her.
Thor Rag- A non issue as well. Never had a problem with him. Bleed him to death with Wolvie or X-23.
IMIW- Use heavy counters. There are plenty of videos on countering him.
Domino- SL works great. Hulk Rags works great.
Really SW? what tier are you fighting in? Id love to see a video of you soloing a 67000 medusa boss with SW in tier 1-3.
Maybe try and read the original post. It was never about AW. Thanks for playing though.
@Nick_Caine_32
Your points are valid. But not everyone can afford to play the game like it's a full time job. My point being if you can't afford to play the game non stop every day for arena grinds and everything else then you can't keep up without being forced to spend.
Keep up with whom? If you mean the people who are playing a lot more than you, then yes, if you play a lot less than them, you won't keep up with them. That's actually a good thing. If someone who only plays for a little while could keep up with the players playing longer and spending more, the game would be entirely pointless.
What you have to be is satisfied with the progress you can make, given the time you put in. My guess is that my progress is a lot more than yours, and you aren't catching up with me. Conversely, I'm not one of the top players in the game, and I'm never catching up with them. There's nothing wrong with that. If you're only willing to play basketball if you can beat Michael Jordan, and only willing to play golf if you can "catch up" to Tiger Woods, then the odds are pretty good you'll never be happy playing any game or sport.
Idk, catching tiger woods these days doesn’t require much.
Totally agree @DNA3000 and for the record I don’t have time and have NEVER had time to play this game as a full time job, everyone is at their own pace. But I still have time to grind for a basic if I don’t have them, and still had time to do it when they were higher in points before the new arena system. It required effort and patience and a long time period over 2-3 years of buildup but I have the roster now to be where I want in the game. People these days think they need guaranteed 5 star dupes when they aren’t uncollected yet, new players want a five star out of the gate (and some have the ability to get them even!) and any difficult content is immediately blown out of proportion - just look at the threads about this months event quest already. Asking for nerfs in master and uncollected when people who have been around long enough to know better are telling you it’s not the hardest they’ve done - and even provide tips and advice and tons of counters to them. There were months after I was uncollected I wasn’t able to fully complete or explore the difficulty, and that just meant I wasn’t at the level or didn’t have the champs required yet. So I worked harder and gained more five star shards and crystals and built my roster, did the arena grind for blade and sparky so I had a full trinity at least in the 4 star version, and built up my resources so I could rank my champs. I’m also in an alliance that’s active and runs map 5 all week. All things I PERSONALLY could control within the game and fit my schedule while working a full time job. There’s no reason for anyone to expect something in a game like this to just be handed to them, and even when there’s content I hate or disagree with like Domino right now, I work with or around it and accept it. I wish more people on the forums would just be a bit more objective about this entire game and the progression.
Now the bugs and everything on kabams side I will totally rally against and call out for what it is, until they are at an acceptable level.
I wish more people understood this. I've played games where I was sitting at the top. There's no there, there. You have to literally invent ways to entertain yourself when you're there, because no game company has the resources to dangle shiny things in front of their top players constantly. You play at your own pace, you set your own goals, and you take pride in achieving them on your own terms. If you do, you'll be a lot happier. There's no shame in not being a top players in a game that has no end built into it. In fact, having things you can't do yet because you're not ready yet is a luxury that many players seem all too willing to toss aside.
I once said that grinding and spending your way to the top of a game is like trying to race your way to the end of your vacation. It might make sense at the time, but it is going to look really silly when you finally get there.
@Nick_Caine_32
Your points are valid. But not everyone can afford to play the game like it's a full time job. My point being if you can't afford to play the game non stop every day for arena grinds and everything else then you can't keep up without being forced to spend. At the same time I also did mention that skill isn't everything. I gave a good example to how people can understand the stress people get from this game.
Everything in this game is about choice. Time vs money is probably the biggest one. What I don't get is why people think they are entitled to complete all content? If you can't complete something it's because you don't have a specific champ. So all champs should be able to defeat, even solo all bosses? Where is the skill in that? Being a decent generic fighter is just one aspect of skill. As others have mentioned, being able to adapt, use a different strategy, actually research champs abilities or search the forum, reddit, FB and so on to learn how others counter, besides the obvious champs. If you don't succeed, then maybe you need to get better. Maybe, based on your skill level, you would benefit from one of the obvious champs you might not have. Then guess what, you don't complete something. Oh my God. What a f'ing nightmare. (if I could only type like Marissa tormei sounds).
Master and Uncollected are that difficult for a reason. So not everyone can finish it. Or they can if they throw enough units at it. You know, being in that business of making money and all. Or you put in the time to earn more units, or earn that new champ or practice with your existing champs. Oh, you have a job. Shocking. Like nobody else that plays this game has a time consuming job, family or life in general. Guess it comes down to that choice thing. Where do you choose to spend your time? It's all about choice. And you choose to take the time to post and complain. Go figure.
Medusa- SW is one of the best and pretty much any champ out there can counter her.
Thor Rag- A non issue as well. Never had a problem with him. Bleed him to death with Wolvie or X-23.
IMIW- Use heavy counters. There are plenty of videos on countering him.
Domino- SL works great. Hulk Rags works great.
Really SW? what tier are you fighting in? Id love to see a video of you soloing a 67000 medusa boss with SW in tier 1-3.
Maybe try and read the original post. It was never about AW. Thanks for playing though.
I read it. Didnt really specify game mode in the original post. I dont think hes complaining about medusas auto block in arena.
@Namelez I know there’s no auto block champs in LOL but aw bosses have a fraction of the health of those in LOL I myself wouldn’t bring a Karnak into an aw medusa boss fight knowing well I’d run outta time is my point...yes he can bypass autoblock but his damage output isn’t that good
@Namelez I know there’s no auto block champs in LOL but aw bosses have a fraction of the health of those in LOL I myself wouldn’t bring a Karnak into an aw medusa boss fight knowing well I’d run outta time is my point...yes he can bypass autoblock but his damage output isn’t that good
That's why there's KillMonger Proxima CrossBones Eleketra BlackWidow all of those champs can bypass autoblock and not run out of time
@Primmer79 what if Thor rag was on a stun immune node? Would you not agree that intercepting is a skill? A couple month ago intercepting was a skill needed to fight stun immune now stun immune can stun back just cause you intercepted
I would call skill in this "being able to adapt." On stun immune, one very specific node that is a decent placement for him, you need to bait specials and heavies if you don't have the right counter. Speaking of counters, you could even use an ability reducer in this case.
Well they nerfed BW too when they nerfed OG Thor and SW so there's that.
One thing I really don't get is after they nerfed OG Thor they then turned around and gave Medusa his old skill set and then some. Why is more than 2 armor break stacks too OP for Thor but it's fine for Medusa?
@Primmer79 what if Thor rag was on a stun immune node? Would you not agree that intercepting is a skill? A couple month ago intercepting was a skill needed to fight stun immune now stun immune can stun back just cause you intercepted
I would call skill in this "being able to adapt." On stun immune, one very specific node that is a decent placement for him, you need to bait specials and heavies if you don't have the right counter. Speaking of counters, you could even use an ability reducer in this case.
Well they nerfed BW too when they nerfed OG Thor and SW so there's that.
One thing I really don't get is after they nerfed OG Thor they then turned around and gave Medusa his old skill set and then some. Why is more than 2 armor break stacks too OP for Thor but it's fine for Medusa?
A comment like this tells me you don't understand how old thor worked
@Primmer79 what if Thor rag was on a stun immune node? Would you not agree that intercepting is a skill? A couple month ago intercepting was a skill needed to fight stun immune now stun immune can stun back just cause you intercepted
I would call skill in this "being able to adapt." On stun immune, one very specific node that is a decent placement for him, you need to bait specials and heavies if you don't have the right counter. Speaking of counters, you could even use an ability reducer in this case.
Well they nerfed BW too when they nerfed OG Thor and SW so there's that.
One thing I really don't get is after they nerfed OG Thor they then turned around and gave Medusa his old skill set and then some. Why is more than 2 armor break stacks too OP for Thor but it's fine for Medusa?
A comment like this tells me you don't understand how old thor worked
I didn’t even know how he worked, mainly because I pulled him as a brand new 4* a year after his nerf
Comments
I suppose it is a matter of perspective. All of these new champions is forcing me to develop better combat skills, as I see it. True: if you bring a totally mismatched champion into a fight you could be so disadvantaged that your skills aren't enough, but I don't see any fight as being entirely impossible to win on skill. It is just that a lot more of them require a much higher level of skill.
When people say skill is less important in the game, I think it is really that certain skills are less dominant in the game, and they aren't being replaced by other skills. If you think "skill" is synonymous with "parry" then skill is less important now than before. But if you think skill includes intercept, skill is just as important. And with some fights, like say Modok or IMIW, the *timing* of when you do something is just as critical as what you do, like heavy-countering IMIW. I'm at best a 50/50 heavy counterer against IMIW, but that's a valid skill based way to fight him. The fact that he auto-blocks doesn't matter if you use unblockable attacks, and heavy attacks have been unblockable since forever. It is just that they weren't as important earlier as they are now.
Whether they should be changing the effectiveness of tactics as quickly as they are is a separate question, but they are changing in ways that most of the time have skill components to countering.
Intercepting is becoming the most important skill in MCOC. We're getting nodes that reduce our champions' block proficiency to 0, even Blade struggles against such nodes if he doesn't intercept. Intercepting takes time and practice to learn, no one solos a 4/55+ Dormammu boss with Magik without practicing for months. Labyrinth of Legends EX Red Hulk and EX Star Lord are the best opponents to practice intercepting against, low energy cost and their AI is similar to game modes like Uncollected Event Quests, Act 5, and Alliance War.
Way to spoil how players limit AW deaths in tier 1 AW
And I don't think it did so suddenly either. Intercepting was starting to creep into the game as an important skill since before Dave made his intercept video. I don't think intercepting became suddenly necessary, I think intercepting became increasingly valuable while block/parry became less useful, and most of the players only noticed when a critical threshold was reached where block/parry decreased to the point where it wasn't enough, and players had to suddenly jump to a tactic that wasn't practiced at all. But I think long before players thought it became necessary, it was becoming increasingly valuable in stages.
There isnt any auto block champs in ROL or LOL. And heavy intercept is not hard at all
Really SW? what tier are you fighting in? Id love to see a video of you soloing a 67000 medusa boss with SW in tier 1-3.
Domino is the only new champ that is a bit ridiculous...but she too can be countered with skill.
Keep up with whom? If you mean the people who are playing a lot more than you, then yes, if you play a lot less than them, you won't keep up with them. That's actually a good thing. If someone who only plays for a little while could keep up with the players playing longer and spending more, the game would be entirely pointless.
What you have to be is satisfied with the progress you can make, given the time you put in. My guess is that my progress is a lot more than yours, and you aren't catching up with me. Conversely, I'm not one of the top players in the game, and I'm never catching up with them. There's nothing wrong with that. If you're only willing to play basketball if you can beat Michael Jordan, and only willing to play golf if you can "catch up" to Tiger Woods, then the odds are pretty good you'll never be happy playing any game or sport.
Maybe try and read the original post. It was never about AW. Thanks for playing though.
Idk, catching tiger woods these days doesn’t require much.
Now the bugs and everything on kabams side I will totally rally against and call out for what it is, until they are at an acceptable level.
Just mainly those who “think” and “feel” that they’re skilled while the content hands them a hard lesson to tell them they’re not. Lol
I wish more people understood this. I've played games where I was sitting at the top. There's no there, there. You have to literally invent ways to entertain yourself when you're there, because no game company has the resources to dangle shiny things in front of their top players constantly. You play at your own pace, you set your own goals, and you take pride in achieving them on your own terms. If you do, you'll be a lot happier. There's no shame in not being a top players in a game that has no end built into it. In fact, having things you can't do yet because you're not ready yet is a luxury that many players seem all too willing to toss aside.
I once said that grinding and spending your way to the top of a game is like trying to race your way to the end of your vacation. It might make sense at the time, but it is going to look really silly when you finally get there.
Everything in this game is about choice. Time vs money is probably the biggest one. What I don't get is why people think they are entitled to complete all content? If you can't complete something it's because you don't have a specific champ. So all champs should be able to defeat, even solo all bosses? Where is the skill in that? Being a decent generic fighter is just one aspect of skill. As others have mentioned, being able to adapt, use a different strategy, actually research champs abilities or search the forum, reddit, FB and so on to learn how others counter, besides the obvious champs. If you don't succeed, then maybe you need to get better. Maybe, based on your skill level, you would benefit from one of the obvious champs you might not have. Then guess what, you don't complete something. Oh my God. What a f'ing nightmare. (if I could only type like Marissa tormei sounds).
Master and Uncollected are that difficult for a reason. So not everyone can finish it. Or they can if they throw enough units at it. You know, being in that business of making money and all. Or you put in the time to earn more units, or earn that new champ or practice with your existing champs. Oh, you have a job. Shocking. Like nobody else that plays this game has a time consuming job, family or life in general. Guess it comes down to that choice thing. Where do you choose to spend your time? It's all about choice. And you choose to take the time to post and complain. Go figure.
That's why there's KillMonger Proxima CrossBones Eleketra BlackWidow all of those champs can bypass autoblock and not run out of time
Well they nerfed BW too when they nerfed OG Thor and SW so there's that.
One thing I really don't get is after they nerfed OG Thor they then turned around and gave Medusa his old skill set and then some. Why is more than 2 armor break stacks too OP for Thor but it's fine for Medusa?
A comment like this tells me you don't understand how old thor worked
I didn’t even know how he worked, mainly because I pulled him as a brand new 4* a year after his nerf