**WE ARE NO LONGER Temporarily Reverting Tier 1 War Ban System**

After further discussion, the game team has made the decision not make adjustements to the ban system.
The previously proposed fix would have resolved the issue for Summoners who are on the cusp of T1/T2 play, and negatively impacted Alliances more securely in T1. Instead, we recommend that cusp Alliances switch to Manual Placement to your members to place the allotted 5 Ban Champions limit there.

Apologies for the back and forth, and for any confusion.
Options

Does Carnage have any redeeming value?

DalBotDalBot Posts: 1,627 ★★★★★
Serious question here. His health is sub par, his attack is WAY sub par, his block proficiency is a joke. Seriously, has any one found any use for him or is he exactly what we all feared: an equal to Spider Gwen and Fixit?
«1

Comments

  • Options
    CuteshelfCuteshelf Posts: 747 ★★★
    Kabam miiike said they are looking at him.

    Hopefully they take note of the suggestions regarding fixes posted. A lot of people want him as a viable champ.

    I've been using him heaps, trying to figure out if there's something hidden about him, but you kinda have to outrank content to make him viable.
    His buffs take too long to stack up and his base stats are too low to begin with.

    It's pretty clear they didn't test him, or nerfed him at the last minute becuase he was too strong and didn't test the nerfs.
  • Options
    DaMunkDaMunk Posts: 1,883 ★★★★
    It will be a very long time, if ever, before he gets a much needed buff.
  • Options
    CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    1) Prestige.
    2) His most important buff isn't fury, it is cruelty That one stack is huge and gives him the highest cdr in the game. His bleed being tied to heavies, his most important buff, and his SA makes him a heavy attack type champion. Does it make him a god? No, but it makes him fun and challenging.
  • Options
    Etaki_LirakoiEtaki_Lirakoi Posts: 480 ★★
    edited July 2017
    CoatHang3r wrote: »
    1) Prestige.
    2) His most important buff isn't fury, it is cruelty That one stack is huge and gives him the highest cdr in the game. His bleed being tied to heavies, his most important buff, and his SA makes him a heavy attack type champion. Does it make him a god? No, but it makes him fun and challenging.

    His Crit damage (R4 5*) goes to roughly 7986.45 without masteries, do note that while that seems like a lot, Diminishing returns most likely have destroyed this, but I do not have a good equation to find the exact percent.

    It is the highest possible in the game though, I believe, but it won't matter at all if it has basically capped at a low number complimented by his terrible attack.

    NOTE: This isn't using the Venom synergy for an extra buff, just his regular amount(5 buffs).
  • Options
    LocoMotivesLocoMotives Posts: 1,200 ★★★
    The best build I found was 1 fury, 2 crit rate, and 2 crit damage. Had me doing 12k+ on 5 hit combos with my r3 5*.
  • Options
    CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    CoatHang3r wrote: »
    1) Prestige.
    2) His most important buff isn't fury, it is cruelty That one stack is huge and gives him the highest cdr in the game. His bleed being tied to heavies, his most important buff, and his SA makes him a heavy attack type champion. Does it make him a god? No, but it makes him fun and challenging.

    His Crit damage (R4 5*) goes to roughly 7986.45 without masteries, do note that while that seems like a lot, Diminishing returns most likely have destroyed this, but I do not have a good equation to find the exact percent.

    It is the highest possible in the game though, I believe, but it won't matter at all if it has basically capped at a low number complimented by his terrible attack.

    NOTE: This isn't using the Venom synergy for an extra buff, just his regular amount(5 buffs).

    You don't want to stack 5, as I said 1 stack gives him the highest cdr in game. DR definitely limits how many you want to utilize.
  • Options
    Etaki_LirakoiEtaki_Lirakoi Posts: 480 ★★
    CoatHang3r wrote: »
    CoatHang3r wrote: »
    1) Prestige.
    2) His most important buff isn't fury, it is cruelty That one stack is huge and gives him the highest cdr in the game. His bleed being tied to heavies, his most important buff, and his SA makes him a heavy attack type champion. Does it make him a god? No, but it makes him fun and challenging.

    His Crit damage (R4 5*) goes to roughly 7986.45 without masteries, do note that while that seems like a lot, Diminishing returns most likely have destroyed this, but I do not have a good equation to find the exact percent.

    It is the highest possible in the game though, I believe, but it won't matter at all if it has basically capped at a low number complimented by his terrible attack.

    NOTE: This isn't using the Venom synergy for an extra buff, just his regular amount(5 buffs).

    You don't want to stack 5, as I said 1 stack gives him the highest cdr in game. DR definitely limits how many you want to utilize.

    I dunno why, but I just completely missed the "One stack" thing, my bad.
  • Options
    Marvel_GMarvel_G Posts: 47
    just fix him I payed $30 bucks for him @Kabam Miike
  • Options
    ViperKingVViperKingV Posts: 111
    I've been using resonate/inequity masteries AMD spamming L1. The multiple hits trigger weakness almost every time. It definitely helps limit incoming damage but I agree that he gets crushed by CR disadvantage and DR.
    He's useless in AQ and AW.
    For such a highly anticipated champ he is probably one of the biggest disappointments.
  • Options
    GrinderGrinder Posts: 242
    he has prestige..
    As far as the champ itself, there's nothing useful about him. By far the worst champ currently in the game.
  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,344 ★★★★★
    CoatHang3r wrote: »
    1) Prestige.
    2) His most important buff isn't fury, it is cruelty That one stack is huge and gives him the highest cdr in the game. His bleed being tied to heavies, his most important buff, and his SA makes him a heavy attack type champion. Does it make him a god? No, but it makes him fun and challenging.

    Have to agree with this. His use is very intricate. I'm getting into him more. He takes time. I'm not saying he's a Boss. However, I think the expectation of what he would be shadowed the design. People expected him to be OP because he was so popular. He takes some getting used to.
  • Options
    Etaki_LirakoiEtaki_Lirakoi Posts: 480 ★★
    edited July 2017
    CoatHang3r wrote: »
    1) Prestige.
    2) His most important buff isn't fury, it is cruelty That one stack is huge and gives him the highest cdr in the game. His bleed being tied to heavies, his most important buff, and his SA makes him a heavy attack type champion. Does it make him a god? No, but it makes him fun and challenging.

    Have to agree with this. His use is very intricate. I'm getting into him more. He takes time. I'm not saying he's a Boss. However, I think the expectation of what he would be shadowed the design. People expected him to be OP because he was so popular. He takes some getting used to.

    People didn't expect him to be OP, they expected him to be above average. From his very weak bleeds and really low stats all the way to his really long set-up to be "good", a lot of people are just very disappointed.
  • Options
    SlyCat42SlyCat42 Posts: 500 ★★
    Carnage and to a lesser extend Venom are both weaker than most champions because they cut all their base stats to make up for the fact that they can stack buffs. Angela for example also has a low armor rating because she starts with an armor buff.

    They might have overdone it a bit with how low their base stats are, and beyond that if Carnage could more reliably apply his bleed he would be fine. A lot of his damage can come from his unique bleed ability, but triggering it is difficult and inconsistent.

    It would be easy to "fix" Carnage by just allowing him to apply bleeds with any of his specials (thus tying it to his awakened ability of power gain). I really want to see what fix they actually come up with when they do decide to make changes to the champion.
  • Options
    Mr_PlatypusMr_Platypus Posts: 2,779 ★★★★★
    People keep mentioning his "unique bleed". But his bleed works in a similar fashion to OG punisher, apply using 1 thing then all basic hits can make them bleed.
    The difference however is that punisher bleed is just sooo much better.
  • Options
    GrinderGrinder Posts: 242
    DLegend wrote: »
    The great stuff about carnage is that his physical resistance and bulwark abilities give him a strong block proficiency, probably almost similar to SL. Plus light attacks crit most of the time.

    So yes, carnage is a valuable if you want a champ that has a good survivability while used offensively. You may want to max the block proficiency mastery for best results.

    I haven't laughed that good in a while. Thanks for that.
  • Options
    GbSarkarGbSarkar Posts: 1,075 ★★★
    edited July 2017
    Grinder wrote: »
    DLegend wrote: »
    The great stuff about carnage is that his physical resistance and bulwark abilities give him a strong block proficiency, probably almost similar to SL. Plus light attacks crit most of the time.

    So yes, carnage is a valuable if you want a champ that has a good survivability while used offensively. You may want to max the block proficiency mastery for best results.

    I haven't laughed that good in a while. Thanks for that.
    To be fair, if you stack enough buffs, his block proficiency can be higher than Capt Am. But the problem is that since he takes so long to stack those buffs, no one would prefer Carnage over CA. Plus, while trying to up bp, you'd be sacrificing damage
  • Options
    Tmasters1984Tmasters1984 Posts: 451
    Red text hurt eyes
  • Options
    A_Noob_Is1A_Noob_Is1 Posts: 762 ★★
    short answer, no.
  • Options
    RafitasRafitas Posts: 65
    He is completely useless, it's a shame.
    Miike said they will look at, but personally I think they didn't check him yet.
    Maybe in 2018..
    Lol, how can theses guys from dev team create a new Spider with such a nice mechanics who has 10000% better than Carnage?
    It's causa Spider have so much more love than Carnage? Very nice game balance Kabam, seems pretty equal the treatment with theses 2 characters, look this comparation, already posted in my Carnage post, but can't bump anymore.
    Miike, answer this, please:

    New Spider tech 4* R3, he maybe got some high PI cause mutant synergy
    itifaca8dabr.jpg

    Carnage 4* R4, one level high than Spider
    83d10jmezen9.jpg

    Matchs end, and looks how good is spider:
    316 Hits for kill ROL WS? For an 4* r3, really? Awesome.
    w6fpygftz06o.jpg

    Matchs end, and looks how Carnage is..an, useless:
    588 Hits for kill ROL WS? For an 4* r4, really? Nuff said.
    cism76o11w94.jpg

    I'm pretty sure the Carnage guy is using the mutants synergy too cause his high PI at R4.
    So, Miike, i'm sorry, but you guys should do the right thing, we asking for an "fix", but that fix advice should come from dev team, cause isn't like (Example): Oh, Carnage was stacking 10 bleeds in 10 hits, now, after the 14.0 he don't stacking anymore, fix this. NO!
    He already coming to the game so poorly, he so weak, he never worked like indeed, so, we comes to the game with that, you guys should deal with!

    Btw, show to dev team theses vids, an proof of Garbage hero that you guys did.

    New Spider Tech:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ketce51sbg

    Garbage Villain:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7wU7ZEN4C0&t=550s
  • Options
    GrinderGrinder Posts: 242
    edited July 2017
    GbSarkar wrote: »
    To be fair, if you stack enough buffs, his block proficiency can be higher than Capt Am. But the problem is that since he takes so long to stack those buffs, no one would prefer Carnage over CA. Plus, while trying to up bp, you'd be sacrificing damage

    No, he can't go higher than the Caps and there's a reason for that. Buffs don't stack for direct amounts anymore, not since 12.0, and that's the #1 issue with carnage as a whole. They dropped his base stats for being able to stack buffs but they didn't account for the MASSIVE buff effectiveness reduction that they implemented. Each time a buff gets a new stack on it, the effectiveness decreases dramatically. It quite literally makes any stacked buffs next to useless unless you have 10+ of something but you can't even do that because of the limit.

    This is all going on the maximum potential of carnage as well. So not only is he piss poor in 95% of fights because of the duration of fights, but even in the fights he has a chance to get max potential he's still piss poor because of what they did to stacked buffs in 12.0. There is absolutely nothing about carnage that is even remotely worth while right now, and that's not exaggerated. I was on the hype train for carnage finally being added to the game but they did him dirty in ways that should've straight up been deleted from the game. No defense, no offense, no utility, no point in existing.
  • Options
    GbSarkarGbSarkar Posts: 1,075 ★★★
    Grinder wrote: »
    GbSarkar wrote: »
    To be fair, if you stack enough buffs, his block proficiency can be higher than Capt Am. But the problem is that since he takes so long to stack those buffs, no one would prefer Carnage over CA. Plus, while trying to up bp, you'd be sacrificing damage

    No, he can't go higher than the Caps and there's a reason for that. Buffs don't stack for direct amounts anymore, not since 12.0, and that's the #1 issue with carnage as a whole. They dropped his base stats for being able to stack buffs but they didn't account for the MASSIVE buff effectiveness reduction that they implemented. Each time a buff gets a new stack on it, the effectiveness decreases dramatically. It quite literally makes any stacked buffs next to useless unless you have 10+ of something but you can't even do that because of the limit.

    This is all going on the maximum potential of carnage as well. So not only is he piss poor in 95% of fights because of the duration of fights, but even in the fights he has a chance to get max potential he's still piss poor because of what they did to stacked buffs in 12.0. There is absolutely nothing about carnage that is even remotely worth while right now, and that's not exaggerated. I was on the hype train for carnage finally being added to the game but they did him dirty in ways that should've straight up been deleted from the game. No defense, no offense, no utility, no point in existing.

    100 CR Carnage against 100 CR opponent block prof:
    Base bp: 44.0% (1571.0)
    1 stack bp buff: 56.2% (2569.5)
    2 stack bp buff: 64.1% (3568.0)
    3 stack bp buff: 69.5% (4566.5)
    4 stack bp buff: 73.6% (5565.0)
    5 stack bp buff: 76.6% (6563.5)
    6 stack (when you block after stacking 5 buffs): 79.1% (7563.0)

    100 CR OG Cap against 100 CR opponent block prof: 76.4% (6461)
  • Options
    RafitasRafitas Posts: 65
    GbSarkar wrote: »
    Grinder wrote: »
    GbSarkar wrote: »
    To be fair, if you stack enough buffs, his block proficiency can be higher than Capt Am. But the problem is that since he takes so long to stack those buffs, no one would prefer Carnage over CA. Plus, while trying to up bp, you'd be sacrificing damage

    No, he can't go higher than the Caps and there's a reason for that. Buffs don't stack for direct amounts anymore, not since 12.0, and that's the #1 issue with carnage as a whole. They dropped his base stats for being able to stack buffs but they didn't account for the MASSIVE buff effectiveness reduction that they implemented. Each time a buff gets a new stack on it, the effectiveness decreases dramatically. It quite literally makes any stacked buffs next to useless unless you have 10+ of something but you can't even do that because of the limit.

    This is all going on the maximum potential of carnage as well. So not only is he piss poor in 95% of fights because of the duration of fights, but even in the fights he has a chance to get max potential he's still piss poor because of what they did to stacked buffs in 12.0. There is absolutely nothing about carnage that is even remotely worth while right now, and that's not exaggerated. I was on the hype train for carnage finally being added to the game but they did him dirty in ways that should've straight up been deleted from the game. No defense, no offense, no utility, no point in existing.

    100 CR Carnage against 100 CR opponent block prof:
    Base bp: 44.0% (1571.0)
    1 stack bp buff: 56.2% (2569.5)
    2 stack bp buff: 64.1% (3568.0)
    3 stack bp buff: 69.5% (4566.5)
    4 stack bp buff: 73.6% (5565.0)
    5 stack bp buff: 76.6% (6563.5)
    6 stack (when you block after stacking 5 buffs): 79.1% (7563.0)

    100 CR OG Cap against 100 CR opponent block prof: 76.4% (6461)

    Ok dude, but if Carnage was supposed to be an defensive hero or play well with 5x block buffs, they fail at making him.
    With 5 block buffs, he will hit like a 3 stars.
    Imagine an Carnage with 5x Block Buffs against an imune, ex: Ultron, Colossus.
    I'm pretty sure he will be the most weak champs from all we have until now.
  • Options
    LocoMotivesLocoMotives Posts: 1,200 ★★★
    Pretty sure @GbSarkar was pointing out that OG cap is still a much better defensive champ if that was the way someone chose to build Carnage.
  • Options
    DalBotDalBot Posts: 1,627 ★★★★★
    So yeah, great prestige, otherwise worst champ in the game. Way to bone this one up Kabam.
  • Options
    TripleD_FenrirTripleD_Fenrir Posts: 146
    Rafitas wrote: »
    He is completely useless, it's a shame.
    Miike said they will look at, but personally I think they didn't check him yet.
    Maybe in 2018..
    Lol, how can theses guys from dev team create a new Spider with such a nice mechanics who has 10000% better than Carnage?
    It's causa Spider have so much more love than Carnage? Very nice game balance Kabam, seems pretty equal the treatment with theses 2 characters, look this comparation, already posted in my Carnage post, but can't bump anymore.
    Miike, answer this, please:

    New Spider tech 4* R3, he maybe got some high PI cause mutant synergy
    itifaca8dabr.jpg

    Carnage 4* R4, one level high than Spider
    83d10jmezen9.jpg

    Matchs end, and looks how good is spider:
    316 Hits for kill ROL WS? For an 4* r3, really? Awesome.
    w6fpygftz06o.jpg

    Matchs end, and looks how Carnage is..an, useless:
    588 Hits for kill ROL WS? For an 4* r4, really? Nuff said.
    cism76o11w94.jpg

    I'm pretty sure the Carnage guy is using the mutants synergy too cause his high PI at R4.
    So, Miike, i'm sorry, but you guys should do the right thing, we asking for an "fix", but that fix advice should come from dev team, cause isn't like (Example): Oh, Carnage was stacking 10 bleeds in 10 hits, now, after the 14.0 he don't stacking anymore, fix this. NO!
    He already coming to the game so poorly, he so weak, he never worked like indeed, so, we comes to the game with that, you guys should deal with!

    Btw, show to dev team theses vids, an proof of Garbage hero that you guys did.

    New Spider Tech:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ketce51sbg

    Garbage Villain:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7wU7ZEN4C0&t=550s

    Well, R3 5* is equivalent to a R5 4* actually. Still. we've seen one of those do 500+ hits on ROL WS, sooo...
  • Options
    CuteshelfCuteshelf Posts: 747 ★★★
    Rafitas wrote: »
    He is completely useless, it's a shame.
    Miike said they will look at, but personally I think they didn't check him yet.
    Maybe in 2018..
    Lol, how can theses guys from dev team create a new Spider with such a nice mechanics who has 10000% better than Carnage?
    It's causa Spider have so much more love than Carnage? Very nice game balance Kabam, seems pretty equal the treatment with theses 2 characters, look this comparation, already posted in my Carnage post, but can't bump anymore.
    Miike, answer this, please:

    New Spider tech 4* R3, he maybe got some high PI cause mutant synergy
    itifaca8dabr.jpg

    Carnage 4* R4, one level high than Spider
    83d10jmezen9.jpg

    Matchs end, and looks how good is spider:
    316 Hits for kill ROL WS? For an 4* r3, really? Awesome.
    w6fpygftz06o.jpg

    Matchs end, and looks how Carnage is..an, useless:
    588 Hits for kill ROL WS? For an 4* r4, really? Nuff said.
    cism76o11w94.jpg

    I'm pretty sure the Carnage guy is using the mutants synergy too cause his high PI at R4.
    So, Miike, i'm sorry, but you guys should do the right thing, we asking for an "fix", but that fix advice should come from dev team, cause isn't like (Example): Oh, Carnage was stacking 10 bleeds in 10 hits, now, after the 14.0 he don't stacking anymore, fix this. NO!
    He already coming to the game so poorly, he so weak, he never worked like indeed, so, we comes to the game with that, you guys should deal with!

    Btw, show to dev team theses vids, an proof of Garbage hero that you guys did.

    New Spider Tech:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ketce51sbg

    Garbage Villain:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7wU7ZEN4C0&t=550s

    Well, R3 5* is equivalent to a R5 4* actually. Still. we've seen one of those do 500+ hits on ROL WS, sooo...

    Who?

    Does that champ have utility or anything else compensating?

    Carnage literally has nothing and is countered by dispell champs and bleed immune/resistant.
    Plus has the added difficulty of requiring to use a heavy/L3 to get a bleed up.

    With zero utility he needs to be either a damage dealer or a defence champ that's difficult to fight. And he's neither.
Sign In or Register to comment.