IMMUNITIES: Havok, Dormammu, and Ghost Rider

First, I noticed while fighting Human Torch that Havok takes flame damage from Torch's Nova Flame debuff. He also incites the nova flame by increasing Human Torch's max temperature through his energy attacks. My concern is that this is inconsistent with Havok's character description. Havok's bio reads that he is INCINERATE IMMUNE. Now there may be an argument on the specificity of the debuffs. However, the problem is that the argument fails because it is inconsistent with how other immunities apply.
For example, Sabertooth is Coldsnap immune, but he is not specifically FROSTBITE IMMUNE. Nevertheless, Sabertooth does not take damage from the Frostbite debuff.
Similarly, and another example of specificity failing, is poison immune champions are immune to neurotoxin and spirit venom debuffs.

Next, Dormammu is on fire, all the time, so why isn't he incinerate immune? He's a utility champion, it's not like giving him an added immunity would make him so good that it would break the game.

Lastly, Ghost Rider, it's the same argument with Dormammu, but apply it to a flaming skeleton. Additionally, it's a flaming skeleton that is incapable of bleeding, so where is the poison delivery system? Once again, he is a utility champion and added immunities aren't going to make him overpowered beyond recognition.

Let's get a fix handled, that's all.

Comments

  • Helicopter_dugdugdugHelicopter_dugdugdug Posts: 555 ★★★
    There it is . The daily Ghost rider incinerate immunity thread . 🤮
  • There is nothing to fix here.You are misunderstanding the abilities.

    Human Torch:
    - His Nova flame's are not debuffs. They are a passive ability that deal ENERGY damage over time. Havoc is immune to incinerate effects, whether it's incinerate debuffs or passive incinerate.
    Now here it is, Nova Flame's are not incinerate effects. Like I mentioned, they are a passive ability that deal energy damage over time. They deal 0 incinerate damage, and have nothing to do with incinerate, really. So incinerate immune champion's can't do anything about it. If you want to counter it, bring an energy damage immune champion (which doesn't exist).


    Sabretooth:
    - Is right there on his abiities. He is immune to coldsnap and frostbite.
    "Passive:

    Sabretooth can withstand incredibly cold temperatures, providing him Immunity to Cold Damage like Coldsnap and Frostbite."

    Dormammu and Ghost Rider:
    - Use the search option. This was already discussed hundreds of times. They aren't immune, there is nothing that "should" make them immune, and they will not be immune (confirmedbythe MOD's).
  • Savio444Savio444 Posts: 1,497 ★★★★
    I know it makes no sense but we can’t do nothing about it.
  • There is nothing to fix here.You are misunderstanding the abilities.

    Human Torch:
    - His Nova flame's are not debuffs. They are a passive ability that deal ENERGY damage over time. Havoc is immune to incinerate effects, whether it's incinerate debuffs or passive incinerate.
    Now here it is, Nova Flame's are not incinerate effects. Like I mentioned, they are a passive ability that deal energy damage over time. They deal 0 incinerate damage, and have nothing to do with incinerate, really. So incinerate immune champion's can't do anything about it. If you want to counter it, bring an energy damage immune champion (which doesn't exist).


    Sabretooth:
    - Is right there on his abiities. He is immune to coldsnap and frostbite.
    "Passive:

    Sabretooth can withstand incredibly cold temperatures, providing him Immunity to Cold Damage like Coldsnap and Frostbite."

    Dormammu and Ghost Rider:
    - Use the search option. This was already discussed hundreds of times. They aren't immune, there is nothing that "should" make them immune, and they will not be immune (confirmedbythe MOD's).

    I will agree with you on the Sabretooth thing. I didn't pay close enough attention.
    However, I will not agree with you on the incinerate issues. The statement on Havok's abilities is that he is immune to ALL FORMS OF INCINERATE. Human Torch's description says NOVA FLAMES ARE TREATED AS INCINERATE DEBUFFS for all of his abilities. Regardless of the fact that it says energy damage over time is dealt, IT IS STILL A FORM OF INCINERATE, and they have stated so specifically.
    Lastly, for the GR thing I'm sure there are millions of threads on the matter, but it doesn't lay to rest the millions of visible and common sense reasons that the immunities aren't there. Additionally, I don't understand why you would have an issue with them making those champs better. I'm guessing it's more of you're tired of hearing the same argument over and over.
  • Nova flame's are treated as incinerate debuffs for HUMAN TORCH'S abilities. Meaning Nova Flame's and Incinerate debuffs have the same abilities. It's basically the same as copy-paste what is written on his incinerate debuffs to the Nova Flames abilities. They do NOT count as incinerate debuffs for the Opponents abilities, so an incinerate immune champion won't be immune to it, simply because it's not an incinerate for them (it really is not an incinerate, it just does the same as if it was for HT's abilities). Again, is not any form of incinerate.

    And I can't agree with you using "common sense" on this game.
    Firstly, it's a fictional universe. It doesn't illustrate reality or anything. And is not the universe used in the Comics or in the MCU, so using arguments from wikipedia from those sources isn't going to make it a good and strong argument.
    It's fictional, and the creators are the ones who decide the rules and laws of it.
    I will use the same example I used in the past: someone that is able to create fire, control its fire, is immune to the damage caused by its own fire, can even eat fire from other sources besides it's own, doesn't make that characters immune to All fire. Specially fire caused by the opponent.
    So just see Ghost Rider, Dormammu, or literally every single champion in the game as a blank model. All equal, all the same. The only thing that matters its their abilities and not how they look like.
  • Nova flame's are treated as incinerate debuffs for HUMAN TORCH'S abilities. Meaning Nova Flame's and Incinerate debuffs have the same abilities. It's basically the same as copy-paste what is written on his incinerate debuffs to the Nova Flames abilities. They do NOT count as incinerate debuffs for the Opponents abilities, so an incinerate immune champion won't be immune to it, simply because it's not an incinerate for them (it really is not an incinerate, it just does the same as if it was for HT's abilities). Again, is not any form of incinerate.

    And I can't agree with you using "common sense" on this game.
    Firstly, it's a fictional universe. It doesn't illustrate reality or anything. And is not the universe used in the Comics or in the MCU, so using arguments from wikipedia from those sources isn't going to make it a good and strong argument.
    It's fictional, and the creators are the ones who decide the rules and laws of it.
    I will use the same example I used in the past: someone that is able to create fire, control its fire, is immune to the damage caused by its own fire, can even eat fire from other sources besides it's own, doesn't make that characters immune to All fire. Specially fire caused by the opponent.
    So just see Ghost Rider, Dormammu, or literally every single champion in the game as a blank model. All equal, all the same. The only thing that matters its their abilities and not how they look like.

    Okay, so the point is the specificity in their wording then. As you've stated they create the laws and rules, so by them stating, "Nova Flame Passives are treated as Incinerate Debuffs for all of Human Torch's abilities" they have identified a FORM of incinerate. It may not specifically be called a DEBUFF, but it is still a FORM of incinerate, and Havok is immune to "All forms of Incinerate."

    Additionally, I never stated that I used Wikipedia, nor do I appreciate your condescending undertone. Further, I'm not going to go through decades of comic history to discover if Ghost Rider or Dormammu have ever been burned or poisoned. That burden of that proof is not on me in the first place, it's on the company using the license it was granted.

    This will be my last post regarding the topic.
  • ItsDamienItsDamien Posts: 473 ★★★
    Different Universe, different rules.

    Main universe is Earth-616
    MCU is Earth-199999
    MCOC is Earth-TRN517

    The rules of MCOC do not apply to the rest of the Universes. The rules of the main universe do not apply to other universes. The MCU rules do not apply to the other universes.

    Simply put, in this universe those characters are not incinerate immune.
  • HaminHamin Posts: 2,446 ★★★★★

  • SlimeballSlimeball Posts: 251

    Nova flame's are treated as incinerate debuffs for HUMAN TORCH'S abilities. Meaning Nova Flame's and Incinerate debuffs have the same abilities. It's basically the same as copy-paste what is written on his incinerate debuffs to the Nova Flames abilities. They do NOT count as incinerate debuffs for the Opponents abilities, so an incinerate immune champion won't be immune to it, simply because it's not an incinerate for them (it really is not an incinerate, it just does the same as if it was for HT's abilities). Again, is not any form of incinerate.

    And I can't agree with you using "common sense" on this game.
    Firstly, it's a fictional universe. It doesn't illustrate reality or anything. And is not the universe used in the Comics or in the MCU, so using arguments from wikipedia from those sources isn't going to make it a good and strong argument.
    It's fictional, and the creators are the ones who decide the rules and laws of it.
    I will use the same example I used in the past: someone that is able to create fire, control its fire, is immune to the damage caused by its own fire, can even eat fire from other sources besides it's own, doesn't make that characters immune to All fire. Specially fire caused by the opponent.
    So just see Ghost Rider, Dormammu, or literally every single champion in the game as a blank model. All equal, all the same. The only thing that matters its their abilities and not how they look like.

    Okay, so the point is the specificity in their wording then. As you've stated they create the laws and rules, so by them stating, "Nova Flame Passives are treated as Incinerate Debuffs for all of Human Torch's abilities" they have identified a FORM of incinerate. It may not specifically be called a DEBUFF, but it is still a FORM of incinerate, and Havok is immune to "All forms of Incinerate."

    Additionally, I never stated that I used Wikipedia, nor do I appreciate your condescending undertone. Further, I'm not going to go through decades of comic history to discover if Ghost Rider or Dormammu have ever been burned or poisoned. That burden of that proof is not on me in the first place, it's on the company using the license it was granted.

    This will be my last post regarding the topic.
    might as well get use to his tone he uses it in everyone of his replies lol
  • Again, Nova Flames are not incinerate effects.
    Lets do another thing. Switch "incinerate debuffs" with Bleed debuffs, and "Nova Flames" with Poison. Now remember that "Poisons are treated as bleed debuffs for HT's abilities". A champion that is immune to bleed will be immune to the bleed debuffs, but it will take the poison damage since it's not poison immune.

    Havoc is immune to incinerate effects (what I described above as bleed debuffs), but he isn't immune to energy damage (what I described above as Poison). So being immune to one doesn't make it immune to the other (and in this case, no champion is immune to energy damage, although some of them have high resistance to it).
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