Serious Feedback and Discussion about Reverse Controls
StarshipHULK
Member Posts: 188 ★
I would like to have a serious discussion from both ends of the spectrum. I would like to hear from people who find reverse controls to be fun to get a counter point. But I'd also like to hear from others along the range of the spectrum. Do you sometimes find it fun and other times not? With the introduction of nodes as a permanent feature of wars it's becoming more and more common place.
My opinion:
I really dislike reverse controls in every encounter and champion it's been introduced on. Not just because it's hard, but because it's not fun. Sure the MCOC developers have made some "not so fun" decisions in the past, but this is a normal balancing act, but I find reverse controls to be particularly damaging to my fondness of the game. I will admit, occasionally, I get it right and do well, but more often then not I find myself confused and disoriented even with some meditation. There is no way to "prep" for the fight in game to get my actions down in the reverse. I find Emma Frost to be the least offensive implementation. All I gotta do is learn to dodge her ability in reverse. The Thanos encounter and now War node are much much worse.
An outline of my argument and why I find it particularly not fun in order of least offensive to most offensive:
1. Reverse controls gives new mechanic for players to practice against and improve.
2. Reverse controls takes advantage of a difficulty to provide a harder challenge, especially for veteran players.
3. Reverse controls is predatory because of how the human mind and usability work. If you don't believe me, look it up. Imagine a reverse control bike where every 30 seconds you change how the bike responds on a timer. I've been referenced a study where someone rode a reverse controls bike and it took him 6 months to learn it and 6 months to unlearn it. This is PREDATORY on the majority of minds, very few of the elasticity to handle this sort of thing well.
4. It's becoming clear that less skilled developers on your team are responsible for increasing the prevalence of reverse controls because the "harder" difficulty of reverse controls lasts permanently. On the contrary, swapping controls mid fight on a timer is often much worse! Mid combo I gotta be ready on occasion. A harder version should swap more often or even at random intervals not last permanently.
5. It can't be easily practiced in the majority of the content.
6. With particular skill based opponents, like Havok or Korg or Thing, players will have a hard time doing anything at the level they need to.
I may want to delve more deeply on this outline and perhaps find some references but I just want to test the waters here for now. Am I off base? Do others feel the same? Do others actually find it fun?
My opinion:
I really dislike reverse controls in every encounter and champion it's been introduced on. Not just because it's hard, but because it's not fun. Sure the MCOC developers have made some "not so fun" decisions in the past, but this is a normal balancing act, but I find reverse controls to be particularly damaging to my fondness of the game. I will admit, occasionally, I get it right and do well, but more often then not I find myself confused and disoriented even with some meditation. There is no way to "prep" for the fight in game to get my actions down in the reverse. I find Emma Frost to be the least offensive implementation. All I gotta do is learn to dodge her ability in reverse. The Thanos encounter and now War node are much much worse.
An outline of my argument and why I find it particularly not fun in order of least offensive to most offensive:
1. Reverse controls gives new mechanic for players to practice against and improve.
2. Reverse controls takes advantage of a difficulty to provide a harder challenge, especially for veteran players.
3. Reverse controls is predatory because of how the human mind and usability work. If you don't believe me, look it up. Imagine a reverse control bike where every 30 seconds you change how the bike responds on a timer. I've been referenced a study where someone rode a reverse controls bike and it took him 6 months to learn it and 6 months to unlearn it. This is PREDATORY on the majority of minds, very few of the elasticity to handle this sort of thing well.
4. It's becoming clear that less skilled developers on your team are responsible for increasing the prevalence of reverse controls because the "harder" difficulty of reverse controls lasts permanently. On the contrary, swapping controls mid fight on a timer is often much worse! Mid combo I gotta be ready on occasion. A harder version should swap more often or even at random intervals not last permanently.
5. It can't be easily practiced in the majority of the content.
6. With particular skill based opponents, like Havok or Korg or Thing, players will have a hard time doing anything at the level they need to.
I may want to delve more deeply on this outline and perhaps find some references but I just want to test the waters here for now. Am I off base? Do others feel the same? Do others actually find it fun?
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Comments
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I have better things to do with my time .. LOL
The bike analogy is not an accurate analogy of this because of the following:
In Mcoc RC, there is no different sensory input besides visual, and you only need to focus on output of motion being changed
In the reverse bike, you are experiencing gravity, momentum, and introducing a change to something done all the time (Steering within driving, biking, any sort of left-right directional input says you bring the left side down or towards you to turn left and vice versa). And THEN, while taking all of those inputs in, you need to change your output and adjust every step of the way. It’s like relearning how to balance.
TLDR for the bike thing
Mcoc reverse controls require minimal sensory input to be processed and very slight output change
Reverse Bike requires lots of sensory input and constant adjusting and a lot of complex output.
And many summoners chose only to remember that ‘taunt’ induces a higher probability for AI to throw a special but forget that the effects of taunt is also extended to reduced atks. You as a player under the effects of taunt, may not be ‘coerced’ to throw specials but you suffered reduced atks. The same cannot be said for AI where inverse is concerned. If I recalled, the Developers have previously confirmed that AI move sets will always be normal vs player even under inverse control situation.
I’m not against a new game mechanic. But as a matter of principle, why isn’t a game mechanic universally applied ? If I have to change my game mechanic to suit a fight, why should coding for AI be allowed as ‘normal’?
I greatly enjoyed using different strategies to clear those fights. My only criticism of reversed controls in war is there are limited opportunities to practice reversed controls fights in other game modes (Map 7 and Act 6.1.6 delirium nodes).
- I agree with #1 and #2
- #3 = I don’t agree with that comparison but I think I get the goal of you referencing that study.
- #4 = I don’t have commentary on this because I’m not a game developer.
- I 100% agree with #5.
- #6 = The right attacker counter makes fights against Havok/Korg/Thing manageable:
Korg temporary reversed controls fight is at 4:53, Havok greater reversed controls fight is at 8:04
Thing greater reversed controls fight is at 13:31
1. When you try to dex against a special and instead get hit (re: the reason some players decide just to block)
2. Dashing at the opponent right after you blocked the special in the small window before the opponent can block your charge. Generally speaking the ai is pretty good at dashing at you after it blocked your specials, and this could hinder them long enough for you to defend yourself in the opposite case.
I’m not sure how easy it is to implement it, and not saying this would be a critical game changer. But all in all I think there could be some noticeable effects.