Better Way to Release and Test Champs

Incitatus666 · September 2019

GroundedWisdom said:

Incitatus666 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Raganator said:
Please please please do not engage GW in this thread so that it remains productive.
Comments like this are not productive. Otherwise we're discussing the subject in a civilized manner.
Incitatus666 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Incitatus666 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Lvernon15 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
I'm not opposed to your suggestion particularly, however I don't agree with the sample size being only the highest level. That's not a representation of all areas of the game.
I feel like the larger the samples the better, but if it’s a limited number there’s no denying that endgame players will (mostly) have a better grasp on their relative strength and are (probably) more likley to find bugs or show their potential under certain costly mastery setups
You have everyone in the game from Day 1 to 6.3. You can't accurately represent how changes to Champions will affect all areas by using one perspective alone. Even Beta Testing with all demographics is just a small sample size of the macrocosm, but it's a more accurate one than just the Top Tier. I know you feel adamant about this, but the game doesn't center around the Top alone.
So what is your proposed method? Because what is going on now clearly is not working. Some spending thousands to buy a champ only to have him altered at a later date.
Well, people will invest at their own will. I'm not sure there's any way to prevent the possibility of changes being made. It's always possible. More testing could minimize the possibility, but it's just a reality of a moving, changing game. Plus the fact that they've committed to reviewing Champs means it's a distinct possibility.
The statement, "people invest at their own will" is not a sufficient one. When one purchases an exclusive crystal to receive and exclusive champion there is a commitment that Kabam ought to keep to; the product that these ppl are attempting to purchase is what has been advertised. The CCP are meant to advertise the champions and when they are released Kabam either notifies if things have been or will be change post CCP content, like in the case of Fury. This is not the same as a normal crystal, in order to be in possession of Cull right one needs to have either obtained him from the arena, or an exclusive featured crystal. One may be able to grind without spending cash (however very difficult in the modern meta, granted) but with crystals (excluding featured), 98% of the people who received him spent at least some money, probably closer to the hundreds of dollars range (I wont do the math out, but those numbers are correct given drop rates and what not).

This means that a significant portion of the community who are in possession of a Cull have spent at least money into him and exclusively to obtain him. The company knows this, we all know this, when his featured crystal was released it was releasing a different champion then he will be in the future. That means those people who received him through those monetary methods deserve to keep the product they purchased. This is no different then buying a new car or some other tangible product. With regular crystals there is no increased drop rate for specific champion and while people hope to "target" one when they open normal crystals it is obviously not the same as a featured.
The comment that people invest at will means it's up to them if they choose to spend on something or not. Doing so means being aware of what they're spending on, and the conditions therein. Which are in the TOS. Getting what you spent on can't come at the cost of the overall health of the game.
I sympathize. I do. I understand what you're saying. However, people also spent after 2 fixes, so they were aware things can change. Ultimately, if they need to change or fix something for the overall well-being of the game, they will do so.
It is up to the people to spend or not but the company needs to realize that they are spending because of the specific product being offered. That being said, I think it is crucial to balance the game when needed, I will not go into specifics about this Cull case, that is beyond the scope of this current discussion. However, what I will say is that if changes are being made the company needs to address the vast majority of the community who own this champion by spending money and sufficiently compensating them and in this RDT are by no means out of the question and possibly even more because resources can be expensive. I don't think that using the community as beta testers is responsible and if this is the way things will be handled I can come aboard as long as they address it by making it clear to everyone we are are beta testers for the first 3 months and reassuring that people who purchase a new character will be appropriately repaid (like a return policy) if that champion is altered. I believe that is more than fair
If that's how you feel, I won't debate your opinion. I don't agree with Tickets for many reasons, and the last round opened up a Pandora's Box, but I'll let it go for this Thread.

I respect that, agree to disagree lol

Daddrieda · September 2019

Now this idea is definitely needed. Kabam mike did say that top300 won’t be enough but give that it can be increased to maybe 20thousand to get enough data to understand what needs to be redoing and so on. It would prevent anger and gunshot toward Kabam brand name

Mauled · September 2019

In terms of the release process, I personally think that champion releases should be rigorously tested at all levels by people who know the game mechanics inside out.

The thing that I actually find the most odd about the way champions are released is the variance in the numbers that they put out. In Cull and Maw we have two champions put out at the same time, and damage-wise at extreme ends of the spectrum, one is able to do WS in around 60 hits unramped, the other in closer to 300 at R5.

Now what this suggests to me is that there isn’t a unified policy on what a champion of X rarity and X rank can loosely put out in terms of raw damage. Obviously things such as utility/immunity etc. would tip the scales one way or another but not to create such a massive range. I think that this is the first thing that needs to be implemented so that loosely speaking, all champions are in the same ballpark.

The design process of a new champion in my opinion should follow certain steps.

- Internal alpha stage from the game designers. This would iron out most of the bugs.
- Internal beta carried out by full time game testers. These would be members of staff specifically drafted in to be able to play the game at the highest level so that they have the nuances of the games mechanics to an art form. The champion would go through Act 1-6, Variant, LoL, AW, AQ at all of the tiers, with emphasis on the later game as that’s where there’s more complex node combinations and chances for unintended mechanic interactions. This would be done with and without synergy combinations and assorted mastery set ups.
- This feedback would be discussed and implemented by developers and those who plan the future direction of the story etc.
- Following this, there should be a limited private beta to the CCP who can review the champion from a relatively neutral point of view and importantly, with fresh eyes. This also acts as promotion. [QUALITY DATA]
- Once raised concerns have been addressed the champion can go for a public beta for as little as 24hours to see how all levels of the game operate the champion - if you could filter the data by a player’s story progression you’d be able to see how the champion performs. [LARGE RAW DATA]
- Tweak and release.

Massive wall of text aside, this would increase the timeframe for a champion’s release, but it would also result in self promotion, and if Kabam actually streamed themselves testing out the champion I think they could slowly bring the community back on board. There are quite a few very successful games that do similar things.

Additionally, hiring a team of 5 top end MCOC players to be your test dummies would probably be considerably cheaper than the potential loss of revenue if the Cull tweak ends up turning the whales off spending enough to max sig a 6* (approx. 500k)

RagamugginGunner · September 2019

The people who get the champion to test isn't as important as actually giving the champ out. Currently no one outside of the dev team plays the champs before release, which has proven not to work. Even those 300 people who Miike said wasn't enough would be worlds better than 0.

RagamugginGunner · September 2019

Daddrieda said:
Now this idea is definitely needed. Kabam mike did say that top300 won’t be enough but give that it can be increased to maybe 20thousand to get enough data to understand what needs to be redoing and so on. It would prevent anger and gunshot toward Kabam brand name

Not sure if 20,000 is a possible number but there need some real testing.

KerayZ · September 2019

honestly folks and i hate to be the one to say it...but CCP or no CCP. folks will always find cheese and then keep it close to the chest. trade secrets with their friends. hush hush in the shadows of 9k chat areas. this game is shady af and not a single person, not even CCP, can be fully trusted to give full disclosure to kabam. Kabam just need to step up THEIR game and get to the same level of skill as the player base.

i know it would be nice to think that everyone is some honest, legit, caring gamer...but in this game we have large grooups of people who justify credit card fraud cause KABAM puts too high of cost in the game. it's all kabam's fault thats WHY i do it.... it's pathetic really.

i could just be being a negative nancy in a sense but really....its in our faces everyday.

if youre worried about nerfs just stop dropping $1000's on cavs and rank up materials. problem solved.

RagamugginGunner · September 2019

KerayZ said:
honestly folks and i hate to be the one to say it...but CCP or no CCP. folks will always find cheese and then keep it close to the chest. trade secrets with their friends. hush hush in the shadows of 9k chat areas. this game is shady af and not a single person, not even CCP, can be fully trusted to give full disclosure to kabam. Kabam just need to step up THEIR game and get to the same level of skill as the player base.

i know it would be nice to think that everyone is some honest, legit, caring gamer...but in this game we have large grooups of people who justify credit card fraud cause KABAM puts too high of cost in the game. it's all kabam's fault thats WHY i do it.... it's pathetic really.

i could just be being a negative nancy in a sense but really....its in our faces everyday.

if youre worried about nerfs just stop dropping $1000's on cavs and rank up materials. problem solved.

No doubt that nothing will catch everything but again, that's not an excuse to do nothing. And saying that Kabam has to step up their game to the same level and skill as the players is a bit silly. The finite number of ppl who work on the game just won't match the skill and level of those who play it at the highest levels.

Colonaut123 · September 2019

Kabam Miike said:
I do like this idea, but the data collected from even the Top 300 players playing content for a week straight is nothing compared to the entire community playing content for an hour when it's released.

I will pass this on though.

I also think that would create a bias in terms of skill and game progress.

RagamugginGunner · October 2019

If you won't give players the chance to test the champs why not have your testers do a live stream where players can have them try things out?