Probably should update Kang and make him AAR immune
You are absolutely correct! This interaction must go away. This is major fight, not just a node like matador or flux dispersal that is miscoded and gets affected by aar.
It will be a slap on the face for the fight designer, who put out a brilliant fight. The fight looks extremely fun, the animations are phenomenal. Rewards skills over revive dumpers. There are very few fights like this and I'm saying this again, It should be fixed.
Not sure if it was said, but if you read Kangs abilities, it says the time charges are affected by ability accuracy, and if a time charge fails, you take damage. That damage is unaffected by ability accuracy.
It's almost like AAR does similar things all over the game...
I'd love to see you use AAR to skip grandmasters phases or gwenmasters. Champ bosses like this, hell even EQ bosses have AAR immunity for their stages
Which would be relevant is Kang was AAR immune. If something is stated to be immune then yeah AAR doesn't matter, if it's not immune well then it can definitely matter.
I don't understand how people continue to have issues with this and not just in this fight but, if AAR can be detrimental just don't use AAR champs and masteries. It's not overly complicated
This is a very long winded way of saying “I don’t know how ability accuracy affects beneficial effects on my own champions when they come from nodes or opponents abilities”.
Like come on, you seriously saying you’ve never tried something like magneto vs matador node and not gained power because you’ve shut down the node? These sorts of interactions are nothing new, irritating, but nothing new.
Again, even if this is right…can you explain how 12% AAR on an ability with 140% ability accuracy causes it to fail. Something is not right.
Also I’ll admit when I made a mistake and I didn’t know about there being a node that causes Kang not to be stunned while wounded, thank you.
Also while “feel” is not very scientific it feels like any AAR is exaggerated on Kang somehow. 12% AAR shouldn’t be enough to cause ANY consequences and 40% should be pretty uncommon that it causes unwanted side effects (since again the base ability accuracy is 140%) and it feels like it’s far more common.
My only thought is this: the ability accuracy of gaining a charge is only 100% instead of 140% when using a special, not just being at the proper power level (which is where ability accuracy is 140%). However that would be a clear delineation from the point above it in the ability description which would effectively “separate” it from where they said it can fail while holding power and cause damage.
Either the text describing accuracy and damage applies or it doesn’t you can’t just take half the statement. I strongly suspect they did not include the 140% ability accuracy when throwing specials. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Sitting at 7.3.6 and after reading posts like this one and seeing a couple of mates break their phones over “unkillable Kangs” I think I’m just going to wait a couple of days and let the YouTube folks figure this one out and provide a visual explanation.
But the one thing I’ve taken away is AAR = bad in Kang fight. So there’s that.
Dr. Zola
I actually was gonna tag you. You are often pretty fair and nonbiased. I wanted your opinion on my analysis 😅.
Also that Parry/Dex path HT paired with Mr F and his powersting synergy works AMAZING. Thing too as his attack climbs with more parries.
Then there’s this interaction where someone used Starky SP3 (causing ensnare which is AAR) then Kang was wounded but not stunned. So they got the charge and didn’t receive damage but Kang was only half wounded? I highly doubt that’s intended. He’s either wounded or he’s not? Right?
Thats a linked node bro where he isnt stunned in wounded phase
Except the other wounded phases before that he was stunned.
Oh well maybe it is bugged there too smh. I don’t know much about that path I’ll have to try it out.
I’d love for someone else to math it out too, I hear a lot of disagreement but no one has addressed the math. The math and percentages “feel” like they could be explained by the 140% accuracy not applying to gaining charges with specials. I really suspect it’s as I said in the above post.
It's almost like AAR does similar things all over the game...
I'd love to see you use AAR to skip grandmasters phases or gwenmasters. Champ bosses like this, hell even EQ bosses have AAR immunity for their stages
Which would be relevant is Kang was AAR immune. If something is stated to be immune then yeah AAR doesn't matter, if it's not immune well then it can definitely matter.
I don't understand how people continue to have issues with this and not just in this fight but, if AAR can be detrimental just don't use AAR champs and masteries. It's not overly complicated
Yeah. Kang should be immune to AAR too. No sense in making a special fight susceptible to AAR to the point where it's undefeatable
I can appreciate that. If/when you run it let me know what you think. Idk if you’ll use any AAR after the dissertation I wrote 😂. But yeah I know things often don’t “feel” right, like mesmerize evade for instance. But I’m saying Hit Monkey died on about 50% of his SP2s and often would trigger disorient in the process. I say the “feel” because I didn’t (and can’t afford) to gather a large enough sample size to draw a real conclusion. But man about half the time is awful close to 40% AAR which would suggest perhaps that 140% ability accuracy isn’t being applied to thrown specials.
I’d also love for the dev team to say something, and frankly I wish I could edit the title. I admit I was frustrated when I typed it. There’s thousands of interactions however I still think they make hand over fist on the game (often from me lol) and could test these interactions a little more.
IF this fight doesn’t have this annoying part to it…hands down my fav fight.
Also I think they should look at SP3 not killing Kang in final phase. But it is working as described
It's almost like AAR does similar things all over the game...
I'd love to see you use AAR to skip grandmasters phases or gwenmasters. Champ bosses like this, hell even EQ bosses have AAR immunity for their stages
Which would be relevant is Kang was AAR immune. If something is stated to be immune then yeah AAR doesn't matter, if it's not immune well then it can definitely matter.
I don't understand how people continue to have issues with this and not just in this fight but, if AAR can be detrimental just don't use AAR champs and masteries. It's not overly complicated
Yeah. Kang should be immune to AAR too. No sense in making a special fight susceptible to AAR to the point where it's undefeatable
6.3.6 Capiw can't be beaten with champs that don't crit. You know what the best plan for that is? Use champs that crit. This is no different.
Haven't done 7.3 at all yet (because of all the weird parry/dex and AI issues in the game at the moment), but I agree that the math side of things seems very odd.
All the people posting here that "that's how AAR works" don't seem to be addressing the math part of things.
Clearly, AAR math is working currently in the game - Agent Venom EQ has enough ability accuracy (AA) for tenacity that Apocalypse's -100% AAR purify ability doesn't do a thing.
So it is odd that Kang's AA can't overcome your champion's much smaller AAR.
It's almost like AAR does similar things all over the game...
I'd love to see you use AAR to skip grandmasters phases or gwenmasters. Champ bosses like this, hell even EQ bosses have AAR immunity for their stages
Which would be relevant is Kang was AAR immune. If something is stated to be immune then yeah AAR doesn't matter, if it's not immune well then it can definitely matter.
I don't understand how people continue to have issues with this and not just in this fight but, if AAR can be detrimental just don't use AAR champs and masteries. It's not overly complicated
Yeah. Kang should be immune to AAR too. No sense in making a special fight susceptible to AAR to the point where it's undefeatable
Given that he does damage when it fails due to AAR, I'd say this is by intention and not an oversight. No point in changing it then (Kabam's POV)
Haven't done 7.3 at all yet (because of all the weird parry/dex and AI issues in the game at the moment), but I agree that the math side of things seems very odd.
All the people posting here that "that's how AAR works" don't seem to be addressing the math part of things.
Clearly, AAR math is working currently in the game - Agent Venom EQ has enough ability accuracy (AA) for tenacity that Apocalypse's -100% AAR purify ability doesn't do a thing.
So it is odd that Kang's AA can't overcome your champion's much smaller AAR.
Thank you! I did a pretty in depth analysis. I think AAR (in general) is functioning fine but there is a problem with the stated ability accuracy in Kang’s ability list. 140% makes sense because with max pacify at worst case he’d have 98% ability accuracy while stunned. But until someone can give any type of valid reasoning why 12% AAR causes an ability with 140% accuracy to fail, it just seems like chatter.
Either there’s an explanation for that (and I’m more than happy to be educated on something I don’t understand), or there isn’t an explanation and it’s a bug 🤷🏼♂️
in relation to the first few posts: when you have the aar on parry mastery on, you soemtimes don't gain furies when parrying with a tech champ with an armour up in cav eq.
It's almost like AAR does similar things all over the game...
I'd love to see you use AAR to skip grandmasters phases or gwenmasters. Champ bosses like this, hell even EQ bosses have AAR immunity for their stages
Which would be relevant is Kang was AAR immune. If something is stated to be immune then yeah AAR doesn't matter, if it's not immune well then it can definitely matter.
I don't understand how people continue to have issues with this and not just in this fight but, if AAR can be detrimental just don't use AAR champs and masteries. It's not overly complicated
Yeah. Kang should be immune to AAR too. No sense in making a special fight susceptible to AAR to the point where it's undefeatable
6.3.6 Capiw can't be beaten with champs that don't crit. You know what the best plan for that is? Use champs that crit. This is no different.
That's way different. Unless they intentionally meant to punish champs that have AAR , it seems like an oversight for a special boss.
Edit: rechecked the kit. Seems they intended to punish AAR champs by letting mission completions be affected by AAR.
It's almost like AAR does similar things all over the game...
I'd love to see you use AAR to skip grandmasters phases or gwenmasters. Champ bosses like this, hell even EQ bosses have AAR immunity for their stages
Which would be relevant is Kang was AAR immune. If something is stated to be immune then yeah AAR doesn't matter, if it's not immune well then it can definitely matter.
I don't understand how people continue to have issues with this and not just in this fight but, if AAR can be detrimental just don't use AAR champs and masteries. It's not overly complicated
Yeah. Kang should be immune to AAR too. No sense in making a special fight susceptible to AAR to the point where it's undefeatable
6.3.6 Capiw can't be beaten with champs that don't crit. You know what the best plan for that is? Use champs that crit. This is no different.
That's way different. Unless they intentionally meant to punish champs that have AAR , it seems like an oversight for a special boss.
Edit: rechecked the kit. Seems they intended to punish AAR champs by letting mission completions be affected by AAR.
I apologize
This was mentioned in the post where the screenshot of his abilities was included. Again the math does not add up if you read the whole thread.
Well, it's in the appropriate section. Wait for a response. All you can do is wait for someone to look into it. If it's bugged, they will let you know.
It's almost like AAR does similar things all over the game...
I'd love to see you use AAR to skip grandmasters phases or gwenmasters. Champ bosses like this, hell even EQ bosses have AAR immunity for their stages
Which would be relevant is Kang was AAR immune. If something is stated to be immune then yeah AAR doesn't matter, if it's not immune well then it can definitely matter.
I don't understand how people continue to have issues with this and not just in this fight but, if AAR can be detrimental just don't use AAR champs and masteries. It's not overly complicated
Yeah. Kang should be immune to AAR too. No sense in making a special fight susceptible to AAR to the point where it's undefeatable
6.3.6 Capiw can't be beaten with champs that don't crit. You know what the best plan for that is? Use champs that crit. This is no different.
That's way different. Unless they intentionally meant to punish champs that have AAR , it seems like an oversight for a special boss.
Edit: rechecked the kit. Seems they intended to punish AAR champs by letting mission completions be affected by AAR.
I apologize
This was mentioned in the post where the screenshot of his abilities was included. Again the math does not add up if you read the whole thread.
I haven't checked the math. I was under the impression this was an oversight at first and hence my comment. Still bad imo
Well, it's in the appropriate section. Wait for a response. All you can do is wait for someone to look into it. If it's bugged, they will let you know.
That’s fair. The responses just blowing it off as oh it’s AAR were just not reading the whole thing. I’ll admit I did learn a bit about AAR although it doesn’t quite make sense IMO, however yeah, math and stuff.
Well, it's in the appropriate section. Wait for a response. All you can do is wait for someone to look into it. If it's bugged, they will let you know.
That’s fair. The responses just blowing it off as oh it’s AAR were just not reading the whole thing. I’ll admit I did learn a bit about AAR although it doesn’t quite make sense IMO, however yeah, math and stuff.
🤘🏼
Oh, I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong. I'm just saying more information would be better.
Haven't done 7.3 at all yet (because of all the weird parry/dex and AI issues in the game at the moment), but I agree that the math side of things seems very odd.
All the people posting here that "that's how AAR works" don't seem to be addressing the math part of things.
Clearly, AAR math is working currently in the game - Agent Venom EQ has enough ability accuracy (AA) for tenacity that Apocalypse's -100% AAR purify ability doesn't do a thing.
So it is odd that Kang's AA can't overcome your champion's much smaller AAR.
Thank you! I did a pretty in depth analysis. I think AAR (in general) is functioning fine but there is a problem with the stated ability accuracy in Kang’s ability list. 140% makes sense because with max pacify at worst case he’d have 98% ability accuracy while stunned. But until someone can give any type of valid reasoning why 12% AAR causes an ability with 140% accuracy to fail, it just seems like chatter.
Either there’s an explanation for that (and I’m more than happy to be educated on something I don’t understand), or there isn’t an explanation and it’s a bug 🤷🏼♂️
I think your math is incorrect because your calculations assigned the 140% chance to the wrong champion and ignored the if/then portions of the ability. Kang’s ability does not give him a 140% chance to give you a power charge if the timer expires and you have the correct bars of power. It gives him a 100% chance (before applying AAR affects to Kang) to give you a 140% chance to gain that charge. If AAR prevents Kang’s ability the 140% calculation for your character does not occur, you do not gain a power charge, and you take direct damage.
The math is not relevant though because you did not finish the timer with the correct bars of power. You did not meet the conditions for that ability to trigger.
Kang’s ability for you to gain a power charge with the correct special attack is also reduced by AAR effects on Kang. If you prevent his ability you do not gain the charge and the timer continues to wind down.
Basically, you landed the correct special attack but AAR on Kang prevented you from gaining a power charge and the timer kept going. The timer subsequently expired when you had the wrong bars of power so Kang’s ability to give you a chance to gain a power charge on expiry could not trigger. You subsequently got knocked out from the direct damage.
Haven't done 7.3 at all yet (because of all the weird parry/dex and AI issues in the game at the moment), but I agree that the math side of things seems very odd.
All the people posting here that "that's how AAR works" don't seem to be addressing the math part of things.
Clearly, AAR math is working currently in the game - Agent Venom EQ has enough ability accuracy (AA) for tenacity that Apocalypse's -100% AAR purify ability doesn't do a thing.
So it is odd that Kang's AA can't overcome your champion's much smaller AAR.
Thank you! I did a pretty in depth analysis. I think AAR (in general) is functioning fine but there is a problem with the stated ability accuracy in Kang’s ability list. 140% makes sense because with max pacify at worst case he’d have 98% ability accuracy while stunned. But until someone can give any type of valid reasoning why 12% AAR causes an ability with 140% accuracy to fail, it just seems like chatter.
Either there’s an explanation for that (and I’m more than happy to be educated on something I don’t understand), or there isn’t an explanation and it’s a bug 🤷🏼♂️
I think your math is incorrect because your calculations assigned the 140% chance to the wrong champion and ignored the if/then portions of the ability. Kang’s ability does not give him a 140% chance to give you a power charge if the timer expires and you have the correct bars of power. It gives him a 100% chance (before applying AAR affects to Kang) to give you a 140% chance to gain that charge. If AAR prevents Kang’s ability the 140% calculation for your character does not occur, you do not gain a power charge, and you take direct damage.
The math is not relevant though because you did not finish the timer with the correct bars of power. You did not meet the conditions for that ability to trigger.
Kang’s ability for you to gain a power charge with the correct special attack is also reduced by AAR effects on Kang. If you prevent his ability you do not gain the charge and the timer continues to wind down.
Basically, you landed the correct special attack but AAR on Kang prevented you from gaining a power charge and the timer kept going. The timer subsequently expired when you had the wrong bars of power so Kang’s ability to give you a chance to gain a power charge on expiry could not trigger. You subsequently got knocked out from the direct damage.
The timer did not keep going…immediately at the conclusion of the special attack I was dealt direct damage. Also he has a 100% chance to give me a 140% chance to gain a charge??? That makes no sense? And your logic on the wrong champion would seems extremely convoluted.
@Kabam Miike can you raise this up to the mod team or something? I know we’re not supposed to tag mods but there’s zero response and a simple “the team is looking into this” would go a long way. I put in plenty of work describing what was happening to warrant that I think 🤘🏼💙🤘🏼
Haven't done 7.3 at all yet (because of all the weird parry/dex and AI issues in the game at the moment), but I agree that the math side of things seems very odd.
All the people posting here that "that's how AAR works" don't seem to be addressing the math part of things.
Clearly, AAR math is working currently in the game - Agent Venom EQ has enough ability accuracy (AA) for tenacity that Apocalypse's -100% AAR purify ability doesn't do a thing.
So it is odd that Kang's AA can't overcome your champion's much smaller AAR.
Thank you! I did a pretty in depth analysis. I think AAR (in general) is functioning fine but there is a problem with the stated ability accuracy in Kang’s ability list. 140% makes sense because with max pacify at worst case he’d have 98% ability accuracy while stunned. But until someone can give any type of valid reasoning why 12% AAR causes an ability with 140% accuracy to fail, it just seems like chatter.
Either there’s an explanation for that (and I’m more than happy to be educated on something I don’t understand), or there isn’t an explanation and it’s a bug 🤷🏼♂️
I think your math is incorrect because your calculations assigned the 140% chance to the wrong champion and ignored the if/then portions of the ability. Kang’s ability does not give him a 140% chance to give you a power charge if the timer expires and you have the correct bars of power. It gives him a 100% chance (before applying AAR affects to Kang) to give you a 140% chance to gain that charge. If AAR prevents Kang’s ability the 140% calculation for your character does not occur, you do not gain a power charge, and you take direct damage.
The math is not relevant though because you did not finish the timer with the correct bars of power. You did not meet the conditions for that ability to trigger.
Kang’s ability for you to gain a power charge with the correct special attack is also reduced by AAR effects on Kang. If you prevent his ability you do not gain the charge and the timer continues to wind down.
Basically, you landed the correct special attack but AAR on Kang prevented you from gaining a power charge and the timer kept going. The timer subsequently expired when you had the wrong bars of power so Kang’s ability to give you a chance to gain a power charge on expiry could not trigger. You subsequently got knocked out from the direct damage.
The timer did not keep going…immediately at the conclusion of the special attack I was dealt direct damage. Also he has a 100% chance to give me a 140% chance to gain a charge??? That makes no sense? And your logic on the wrong champion would seems extremely convoluted.
@Kabam Miike can you raise this up to the mod team or something? I know we’re not supposed to tag mods but there’s zero response and a simple “the team is looking into this” would go a long way. I put in plenty of work describing what was happening to warrant that I think 🤘🏼💙🤘🏼
After rereading I’ll admit my initial conclusion was probably incorrect. AAR can be really confusing. You have to be careful using it when the nodes in a fight or the opponents abilities give you a beneficial effect.
However, read the second sentence. “If they do not gain one or it fails due to chance.” If you knock Kang down with the correct special and AAR prevents the ability to give you a power charge it failed due to chance.
The Kang fight can be a little confusing, given all of the factors that come into play from different lanes, number of Paradox/Class of your Champs, etc., so if I need more information or am misunderstanding you, please let me know.
From what I can tell here, we're just talking about Ability Accuracy reduction though, and how that can negatively affect you as the Attacker. This is intentional and is not exclusive to the Kang fight. AAR can be detrimental in many parts of the game, and this is one of them.
Comments
This interaction must go away.
This is major fight, not just a node like matador or flux dispersal that is miscoded and gets affected by aar.
It will be a slap on the face for the fight designer, who put out a brilliant fight.
The fight looks extremely fun, the animations are phenomenal. Rewards skills over revive dumpers. There are very few fights like this and I'm saying this again, It should be fixed.
I don't understand how people continue to have issues with this and not just in this fight but, if AAR can be detrimental just don't use AAR champs and masteries. It's not overly complicated
Also I’ll admit when I made a mistake and I didn’t know about there being a node that causes Kang not to be stunned while wounded, thank you.
Also while “feel” is not very scientific it feels like any AAR is exaggerated on Kang somehow. 12% AAR shouldn’t be enough to cause ANY consequences and 40% should be pretty uncommon that it causes unwanted side effects (since again the base ability accuracy is 140%) and it feels like it’s far more common.
My only thought is this: the ability accuracy of gaining a charge is only 100% instead of 140% when using a special, not just being at the proper power level (which is where ability accuracy is 140%). However that would be a clear delineation from the point above it in the ability description which would effectively “separate” it from where they said it can fail while holding power and cause damage.
Either the text describing accuracy and damage applies or it doesn’t you can’t just take half the statement. I strongly suspect they did not include the 140% ability accuracy when throwing specials. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Also that Parry/Dex path HT paired with Mr F and his powersting synergy works AMAZING. Thing too as his attack climbs with more parries.
Oh well maybe it is bugged there too smh. I don’t know much about that path I’ll have to try it out.
I’d love for someone else to math it out too, I hear a lot of disagreement but no one has addressed the math. The math and percentages “feel” like they could be explained by the 140% accuracy not applying to gaining charges with specials. I really suspect it’s as I said in the above post.
I’d also love for the dev team to say something, and frankly I wish I could edit the title. I admit I was frustrated when I typed it. There’s thousands of interactions however I still think they make hand over fist on the game (often from me lol) and could test these interactions a little more.
IF this fight doesn’t have this annoying part to it…hands down my fav fight.
Also I think they should look at SP3 not killing Kang in final phase. But it is working as described
All the people posting here that "that's how AAR works" don't seem to be addressing the math part of things.
Clearly, AAR math is working currently in the game - Agent Venom EQ has enough ability accuracy (AA) for tenacity that Apocalypse's -100% AAR purify ability doesn't do a thing.
So it is odd that Kang's AA can't overcome your champion's much smaller AAR.
So why is a 12% AAR causing an ability with 140% ability accuracy to fail?
Either there’s an explanation for that (and I’m more than happy to be educated on something I don’t understand), or there isn’t an explanation and it’s a bug 🤷🏼♂️
Edit: rechecked the kit. Seems they intended to punish AAR champs by letting mission completions be affected by AAR.
I apologize
🤘🏼
The math is not relevant though because you did not finish the timer with the correct bars of power. You did not meet the conditions for that ability to trigger.
Kang’s ability for you to gain a power charge with the correct special attack is also reduced by AAR effects on Kang. If you prevent his ability you do not gain the charge and the timer continues to wind down.
Basically, you landed the correct special attack but AAR on Kang prevented you from gaining a power charge and the timer kept going. The timer subsequently expired when you had the wrong bars of power so Kang’s ability to give you a chance to gain a power charge on expiry could not trigger. You subsequently got knocked out from the direct damage.
@Kabam Miike can you raise this up to the mod team or something? I know we’re not supposed to tag mods but there’s zero response and a simple “the team is looking into this” would go a long way. I put in plenty of work describing what was happening to warrant that I think 🤘🏼💙🤘🏼
After rereading I’ll admit my initial conclusion was probably incorrect. AAR can be really confusing. You have to be careful using it when the nodes in a fight or the opponents abilities give you a beneficial effect.
However, read the second sentence. “If they do not gain one or it fails due to chance.” If you knock Kang down with the correct special and AAR prevents the ability to give you a power charge it failed due to chance.
The Kang fight can be a little confusing, given all of the factors that come into play from different lanes, number of Paradox/Class of your Champs, etc., so if I need more information or am misunderstanding you, please let me know.
From what I can tell here, we're just talking about Ability Accuracy reduction though, and how that can negatively affect you as the Attacker. This is intentional and is not exclusive to the Kang fight. AAR can be detrimental in many parts of the game, and this is one of them.