The one path in the Rifts that is a bit nonsensical

DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,845 Guardian
in General Discussion
Nonsensical is a strong word, however, I do think that there is a problem with one of the random Rift paths in the Legendary Rifts. It is the sig stone path. But to get there requires a bit of math. Aw, who am I kidding, even if it didn't require it, I would still force you to read it. Might as well get it over with.

There are six paths other than candy in the Legendary Rifts. They award 2M gold, one T5CC crystal, one +5 6* sig stone, two T5B cats, 10k 6* shards, and one 6* AG. What are these things worth? Well, we can look to the Candy store itself to get an idea. I'm going to specifically be looking at the Cav+ store for this comparison.

You can buy gold. 200k for 20k candy. So 2M gold is worth 200k candy, according to this valuation.
You can buy T5CC via fragment crystals. Five 2% crystals costs 5000 candy. So a full crystal is worth 50k candy.
You can buy T5B, one costs 10k candy. So two T5B is worth 20k candy.
You can buy 6* shards. 650 costs 15k candy, so 10000 is worth 230,769 candy.
You can't buy a 6* AG. But I'm going to state almost certainly without controversy that a 6* AG is worth way, way more than 20k candy.

And then we have +5 6* Sig stone. We can buy that in the Candy store for 7k candy. Notice that every reward above is worth at least 20k candy. Some are worth vastly more. But this path contains a reward that is, according to the Candy store, worth less than the 20k candy you would have gotten on the default path. It is the one "lucky" path where your rewards can be reasonably said to drop.

Now, there are advantages to landing on this path. If you want sig stones, you're limited to only one purchase in the Candy store. Landing on this reward might be a good thing, relative to what you want. But you could say that about every reward. This reward is the only one that is generating a lower reward than the intrinsic economic value of the 20k candy you'd be getting on the default path. That seems weird, if not wrong.

If it were me, I would boost the sig stone path in the Legendary Rift from one +5 sig stone to three. This would then make the economic value of that path 21k candy, and at least marginally higher than the default 20k candy path.

I'm not saying the Rift is "broken" per se. Maybe they deliberately wanted that path to have low value because sig stones are still so high in (design) value that they needed to be constrained to the point of assessing the value of getting two instead of one have an outsized qualitative value.

But if it was me, I would try to make sure every single non-candy path contained a reward that would at least pass the eye test as being worth more than what I lost out to, and the sig stone path in the Legendary Rift doesn't do that, and I don't think 6* sig stones are sufficiently constrained these days that this was compelled. Just my opinion.
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Comments

  • ReignkingTWReignkingTW Member Posts: 2,774 ★★★★★
    Tldr
  • Bugmat78Bugmat78 Member Posts: 2,407 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Nonsensical is a strong word, however, I do think that there is a problem with one of the random Rift paths in the Legendary Rifts. It is the sig stone path. But to get there requires a bit of math. Aw, who am I kidding, even if it didn't require it, I would still force you to read it. Might as well get it over with.

    There are six paths other than candy in the Legendary Rifts. They award 2M gold, one T5CC crystal, one +5 6* sig stone, two T5B cats, 10k 6* shards, and one 6* AG. What are these things worth? Well, we can look to the Candy store itself to get an idea. I'm going to specifically be looking at the Cav+ store for this comparison.

    You can buy gold. 200k for 20k candy. So 2M gold is worth 200k candy, according to this valuation.
    You can buy T5CC via fragment crystals. Five 2% crystals costs 5000 candy. So a full crystal is worth 50k candy.
    You can buy T5B, one costs 10k candy. So two T5B is worth 20k candy.
    You can buy 6* shards. 650 costs 15k candy, so 10000 is worth 230,769 candy.
    You can't buy a 6* AG. But I'm going to state almost certainly without controversy that a 6* AG is worth way, way more than 20k candy.

    And then we have +5 6* Sig stone. We can buy that in the Candy store for 7k candy. Notice that every reward above is worth at least 20k candy. Some are worth vastly more. But this path contains a reward that is, according to the Candy store, worth less than the 20k candy you would have gotten on the default path. It is the one "lucky" path where your rewards can be reasonably said to drop.

    Now, there are advantages to landing on this path. If you want sig stones, you're limited to only one purchase in the Candy store. Landing on this reward might be a good thing, relative to what you want. But you could say that about every reward. This reward is the only one that is generating a lower reward than the intrinsic economic value of the 20k candy you'd be getting on the default path. That seems weird, if not wrong.

    If it were me, I would boost the sig stone path in the Legendary Rift from one +5 sig stone to three. This would then make the economic value of that path 21k candy, and at least marginally higher than the default 20k candy path.

    I'm not saying the Rift is "broken" per se. Maybe they deliberately wanted that path to have low value because sig stones are still so high in (design) value that they needed to be constrained to the point of assessing the value of getting two instead of one have an outsized qualitative value.

    But if it was me, I would try to make sure every single non-candy path contained a reward that would at least pass the eye test as being worth more than what I lost out to, and the sig stone path in the Legendary Rift doesn't do that, and I don't think 6* sig stones are sufficiently constrained these days that this was compelled. Just my opinion.

    I hear your argument but it's only valid if kabam intent was for all the rewards in the rifts to be equally attainable in the candy store. Given how scarce and limited a resource 6* sig stones have been made to be and the fact it's also one of the very few items of highly restricted availability in the candy store (a whole one) i think this is exactly how they want it, and it is no error.

    Just yesterday 20 sig stones were sold for US$40. They remain a premium.

    Also Texas they gave us 5 generic for completing an objective last month. Despite 6* awakening gems and stones being more available in general, they are still throttling the flow in spaces and i would say that includes rifts) SQ
  • DeaconDeacon Member Posts: 4,272 ★★★★★
    you lost me at attainable LOL. i mean i would wager 90% of the people who play this game will get nothing but candy. sure there are a lucky few to be RNG'd to other paths but there is VERY little chance that any reasonable sum of people would get anything beyond candy.

    i'd suggest increasing the candy before anything else ... at this point the other paths are really just window shopping and nothing more for many, many, many, many people.
  • KingnaesKingnaes Member Posts: 85 ★
    I got the 2M gold path yesterday and quit the path cuz I don't need gold and really didn't wanna waste time and energy for it... I'm at 70M+ gold. Got the 6* AG path once and got skill when I'm already sitting on an unused skill AG.... the rest of the runs all candy
  • NastyPhishNastyPhish Member Posts: 583 ★★★
    I agree. The sig stones should be like 20? Maybe that’s a bit much. But one dupe of a champ I already to have awakened to use doesn’t seem like too much either.

    I have frequently said I’d rather get candy than the sig stone path. Even though lots of things in the store are overpriced. And some things seem way underpriced. But whatever. Free is free.

    Maybe next time have a choice at each of the “rare drop” paths that takes you to the “candy” if you absolutely don’t want that. After all, getting something you don’t want or can’t use is just like getting nothing
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,845 Guardian
    Bugmat78 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Nonsensical is a strong word, however, I do think that there is a problem with one of the random Rift paths in the Legendary Rifts. It is the sig stone path. But to get there requires a bit of math. Aw, who am I kidding, even if it didn't require it, I would still force you to read it. Might as well get it over with.

    There are six paths other than candy in the Legendary Rifts. They award 2M gold, one T5CC crystal, one +5 6* sig stone, two T5B cats, 10k 6* shards, and one 6* AG. What are these things worth? Well, we can look to the Candy store itself to get an idea. I'm going to specifically be looking at the Cav+ store for this comparison.

    You can buy gold. 200k for 20k candy. So 2M gold is worth 200k candy, according to this valuation.
    You can buy T5CC via fragment crystals. Five 2% crystals costs 5000 candy. So a full crystal is worth 50k candy.
    You can buy T5B, one costs 10k candy. So two T5B is worth 20k candy.
    You can buy 6* shards. 650 costs 15k candy, so 10000 is worth 230,769 candy.
    You can't buy a 6* AG. But I'm going to state almost certainly without controversy that a 6* AG is worth way, way more than 20k candy.

    And then we have +5 6* Sig stone. We can buy that in the Candy store for 7k candy. Notice that every reward above is worth at least 20k candy. Some are worth vastly more. But this path contains a reward that is, according to the Candy store, worth less than the 20k candy you would have gotten on the default path. It is the one "lucky" path where your rewards can be reasonably said to drop.

    Now, there are advantages to landing on this path. If you want sig stones, you're limited to only one purchase in the Candy store. Landing on this reward might be a good thing, relative to what you want. But you could say that about every reward. This reward is the only one that is generating a lower reward than the intrinsic economic value of the 20k candy you'd be getting on the default path. That seems weird, if not wrong.

    If it were me, I would boost the sig stone path in the Legendary Rift from one +5 sig stone to three. This would then make the economic value of that path 21k candy, and at least marginally higher than the default 20k candy path.

    I'm not saying the Rift is "broken" per se. Maybe they deliberately wanted that path to have low value because sig stones are still so high in (design) value that they needed to be constrained to the point of assessing the value of getting two instead of one have an outsized qualitative value.

    But if it was me, I would try to make sure every single non-candy path contained a reward that would at least pass the eye test as being worth more than what I lost out to, and the sig stone path in the Legendary Rift doesn't do that, and I don't think 6* sig stones are sufficiently constrained these days that this was compelled. Just my opinion.

    I hear your argument but it's only valid if kabam intent was for all the rewards in the rifts to be equally attainable in the candy store. Given how scarce and limited a resource 6* sig stones have been made to be and the fact it's also one of the very few items of highly restricted availability in the candy store (a whole one) i think this is exactly how they want it, and it is no error.
    If you read my post in its entirety, which I will admit could take refueling in the middle, my "argument" was that the economic value of the sig stone path is much lower than the default path candy value, this is a unique property of that one path, and most importantly the only reasonable explanation for this is restricting the sig stones as an extra constraint which I stated in my opinion is not a decision I would agree with.
  • phillgreenphillgreen Member Posts: 4,186 ★★★★★
    Put me down as someone with nothing but candy so far, I almost feel like taking the bet since most of the items are worth more than 300 units (to me)

    Watch me get the lousy sig stones instead, probably on the final day just to screw with me :smiley:
  • Bugmat78Bugmat78 Member Posts: 2,407 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Bugmat78 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Nonsensical is a strong word, however, I do think that there is a problem with one of the random Rift paths in the Legendary Rifts. It is the sig stone path. But to get there requires a bit of math. Aw, who am I kidding, even if it didn't require it, I would still force you to read it. Might as well get it over with.

    There are six paths other than candy in the Legendary Rifts. They award 2M gold, one T5CC crystal, one +5 6* sig stone, two T5B cats, 10k 6* shards, and one 6* AG. What are these things worth? Well, we can look to the Candy store itself to get an idea. I'm going to specifically be looking at the Cav+ store for this comparison.

    You can buy gold. 200k for 20k candy. So 2M gold is worth 200k candy, according to this valuation.
    You can buy T5CC via fragment crystals. Five 2% crystals costs 5000 candy. So a full crystal is worth 50k candy.
    You can buy T5B, one costs 10k candy. So two T5B is worth 20k candy.
    You can buy 6* shards. 650 costs 15k candy, so 10000 is worth 230,769 candy.
    You can't buy a 6* AG. But I'm going to state almost certainly without controversy that a 6* AG is worth way, way more than 20k candy.

    And then we have +5 6* Sig stone. We can buy that in the Candy store for 7k candy. Notice that every reward above is worth at least 20k candy. Some are worth vastly more. But this path contains a reward that is, according to the Candy store, worth less than the 20k candy you would have gotten on the default path. It is the one "lucky" path where your rewards can be reasonably said to drop.

    Now, there are advantages to landing on this path. If you want sig stones, you're limited to only one purchase in the Candy store. Landing on this reward might be a good thing, relative to what you want. But you could say that about every reward. This reward is the only one that is generating a lower reward than the intrinsic economic value of the 20k candy you'd be getting on the default path. That seems weird, if not wrong.

    If it were me, I would boost the sig stone path in the Legendary Rift from one +5 sig stone to three. This would then make the economic value of that path 21k candy, and at least marginally higher than the default 20k candy path.

    I'm not saying the Rift is "broken" per se. Maybe they deliberately wanted that path to have low value because sig stones are still so high in (design) value that they needed to be constrained to the point of assessing the value of getting two instead of one have an outsized qualitative value.

    But if it was me, I would try to make sure every single non-candy path contained a reward that would at least pass the eye test as being worth more than what I lost out to, and the sig stone path in the Legendary Rift doesn't do that, and I don't think 6* sig stones are sufficiently constrained these days that this was compelled. Just my opinion.

    I hear your argument but it's only valid if kabam intent was for all the rewards in the rifts to be equally attainable in the candy store. Given how scarce and limited a resource 6* sig stones have been made to be and the fact it's also one of the very few items of highly restricted availability in the candy store (a whole one) i think this is exactly how they want it, and it is no error.
    If you read my post in its entirety, which I will admit could take refueling in the middle, my "argument" was that the economic value of the sig stone path is much lower than the default path candy value, this is a unique property of that one path, and most importantly the only reasonable explanation for this is restricting the sig stones as an extra constraint which I stated in my opinion is not a decision I would agree with.
    I did but then it's hard to keep track! I guess my own point is i hear you and agree mostly but the title of the thread is probably what i mostly disagree with (and this is the opening statement of your argument,). I don't think it's a bit nonsensical at all - it makes perfect sense to me in the current meta they have created.
  • SammyDeSammyDe Member Posts: 1,105 ★★★
    Sure the sig stones value is low but I recalled the previous month’s legendary SQ provided us with T4b which is worth very little. So I will still take the stones if it comes up.
    I have OCD, so when I have 46m gold and the 2M path came, I had to complete it. I think it is only 6 more energy to finish. I did sigh a little though. Someone had the right idea, that if you don’t like the path, there should be a way for you to move back to the candy lane to at least get some stuff from the store…
  • G-Hun-GearG-Hun-Gear Member Posts: 1,447 ★★★★
    BitterSteel said:

    G-Hun-Gear said:

    I agree with you, but you spent way too many words for that conclusion…



    😂
  • Rohit_316Rohit_316 Member Posts: 3,415 ★★★★★
    When Teacher says write an essay in 500 words.
  • SummonerNRSummonerNR Member, Guardian Posts: 13,200 Guardian
    It's not whether the 6* Sig Stones are a truly valuable item or not.

    DNA just pointing out that their value is not consistent between the SQ path, versus in the Candy Store.

    Could just be that Kabam is “throwing us a bone” with them in the Store. Here, have some heavily discounted Sig Stones from Store. We'll give that one to you cheap.
    But we're NOT gonna just give away an Awakening, you gotta pay for it, same chance (aka price) as on SQ path.
  • Ironman3000Ironman3000 Member Posts: 1,993 ★★★★★
    not reading that
  • Qwerty12345Qwerty12345 Member Posts: 850 ★★★★
    I appreciate OP's attempt to scale everything into a single currency... but most currencies tend to be "good deals" for one resource, and terrible for others. Take a look at the "catalyst store" vs. the glory store and the price for 1 T5B vs. T2A (I say one, as don't want to confuse people even more with escalating prices and what that does to the ratio).

    Further, candy store has purchase limits... you actually can't do most of the transactions you mentioned because of them.

    Would it have been horrible if this event were instead like mutant treasure island... where there were 35 paths created, most with candy, and either most with Candy and a 1 each of all the others... or if you want to only give away ~10% of the time... 3-4 times you can choose to go down a special path (maybe even make it harder), and at the end of it you get a "Deluxe Candy Store Crystal" that awards one of the items?

  • SquirrelguySquirrelguy Member Posts: 2,654 ★★★★★
    As someone who pulled their first non-candy path yesterday for it to be the sig stone, I feel ya.
  • K00shMaanK00shMaan Member Posts: 1,289 ★★★★
    I agree that it seems like an underwhelming reward compared to some of the others but it's hard to use the Candy Shop as the comparison for this. The prices for things in the Candy Store are not consistent. 5 x 2% T5CC costs 5K but 1 x 1% T5CC costs 3,500 even though they're the same tier of reward. 1 x T5B costs 10K when 10% costs 6K and once again is the same reward. In the rare event that you didn't pull Candy 20+ times then absolutely you might end up feeling like you missed out on something important by getting the 6 Star sig stones instead but the reality is that the return you get for Candy plummets as you get more of it. For that reason I believe the sig stones are still far more valuable than the 20K Candy
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Member Posts: 9,264 ★★★★★
    Qwerty12345 said:

    I appreciate OP's attempt to scale everything into a single currency... but most currencies tend to be "good deals" for one resource, and terrible for others. Take a look at the "catalyst store" vs. the glory store and the price for 1 T5B vs. T2A (I say one, as don't want to confuse people even more with escalating prices and what that does to the ratio).

    Further, candy store has purchase limits... you actually can't do most of the transactions you mentioned because of them.

    Would it have been horrible if this event were instead like mutant treasure island... where there were 35 paths created, most with candy, and either most with Candy and a 1 each of all the others... or if you want to only give away ~10% of the time... 3-4 times you can choose to go down a special path (maybe even make it harder), and at the end of it you get a "Deluxe Candy Store Crystal" that awards one of the items?

    If you want that, prepare to say goodbye to the 6* awakening gem being a part of the event
  • K00shMaanK00shMaan Member Posts: 1,289 ★★★★
    SammyDe said:

    Sure the sig stones value is low but I recalled the previous month’s legendary SQ provided us with T4b which is worth very little. So I will still take the stones if it comes up.
    I have OCD, so when I have 46m gold and the 2M path came, I had to complete it. I think it is only 6 more energy to finish. I did sigh a little though. Someone had the right idea, that if you don’t like the path, there should be a way for you to move back to the candy lane to at least get some stuff from the store…

    If only there had been some kind of event where people who have an excess of Gold were able to use it for other reasons.
  • Jh_DezJh_Dez Member Posts: 1,307 ★★★
    So far I've gotten t5c ,10k 6* shards, T5b and candy
  • DeaconDeacon Member Posts: 4,272 ★★★★★
    BitterSteel said:

    DeaconVelvet said:

    BitterSteel said:

    DeaconVelvet said:

    you lost me at attainable LOL. i mean i would wager 90% of the people who play this game will get nothing but candy.

    You would lose any money you put on that wager.

    It’s a 2% chance for ONE PERSON to get Candy the entire month. The chances for 90% of the playerbase to get nothing but candy is infinitesimal
    let's bet! assuming enough people come back at month's end .. i'm going to be EXTREMELY interested in the end result of everyone's turnout .. including you .. who like me have gotten nothing but candy .. and Nov is fast approaching lol
    Sure, if you and I both have 0 non-Candy pulls by the end of the month, I’ll gift you 300 units worth of gifts come Xmas, if not, you gift me the same ;)

    Happy to take those odds?
    done deal my friend lol
  • Colinwhitworth69Colinwhitworth69 Member Posts: 7,470 ★★★★★
    Agree, but Kabam has made 6s sig stones maybe the hardest item to get in the game so not expecting any change soon. Maybe after 7 stars have flooded the game then the value of high sig 6-star champs will decrease.
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