AW and AQ timer too short???

I understand the need for a timer.
I understand it is to stop cheaters. To stop people force quitting.
But i believe that it is now too short.
the timer was set at 3mins along time ago. The game has evolved alot.
Average fights are longer than they were.
When the timers were set Boss fights did not take anywhere near aslong as they do now.
The last 3 wars i have timed out on boss fights.
Last war was against a 5/65 Hypew with i assume Max WP. in the 3 mins I only did 30% damage. i had to fight him 3 times each time losing heath cus of time out.
Today i fought a 6* KM i timedout at 154 hits to 0 with him on 32% health.

people are timing out often in AQ against mini boss 2 or against KP.

I know that this is not a problem for everyone. i know those with a 5/65 hypew or blade or stark will just say "GIT GUD" "get a more powerful champ".
But if timers were longer soooo many more champs would become viable.

I believe that the game has evovled well. Fights require more skill and more time. But the fight timer should also evovle with it.

Comments

Cranky_Trump

at least in the boss/miniboss fights, anyway

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MrMaat

i would like to hear the reasoning from some of these peeps who say no.....

Primmer79

MrMaat wrote: »

i would like to hear the reasoning from some of these peeps who say no.....

I'm not a hard no, and this question is bias the way its worded.

I like the idea of having to do it within the time limit. There are some champions out there that could defeat 90% of enemies no matter the node, but the time limit will result in a time out. As an officer, this is another factor for placement purposes. KG on an arc overload or increased heal node. KG is relatively easy to fight, but with the regen, you can easily time out without the right champs. I like this idea for placement purposes.

To the OPs points, the timer isnt just to prevent cheaters. Its to provide parameters in which the fight needs to be completed. That becomes part of the strategy. The game has evolved, the defenders have evolved, and so have the attackers. I don't believe the timer changing is considered part of the meta in the way champions are. Longer timers doesn't just mean more champs are viable, it means the fight is easier. More time to bait specials, more time to regen, more time to fight conservative. As far as AQ goes, I do like the design idea of multiple people having to take down a champion no matter how well they fight. ***for the boss. That mechanic would be annoying if its every time on a mini someone is essentially losing a champ. I know it happens at some levels, but thats part of balancing prestige within an alliance.

Will I be up in arms if the timer was changed? No of course not. I just don't see the need to change it the way some others do.

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Gamer

Im agerd more timer let me use offer champ my Sl. For boss figth.

RagamugginGunner

get better

MrMaat

Primmer79 wrote: »

MrMaat wrote: »

i would like to hear the reasoning from some of these peeps who say no.....

I'm not a hard no, and this question is bias the way its worded.

I like the idea of having to do it within the time limit. There are some champions out there that could defeat 90% of enemies no matter the node, but the time limit will result in a time out. As an officer, this is another factor for placement purposes. KG on an arc overload or increased heal node. KG is relatively easy to fight, but with the regen, you can easily time out without the right champs. I like this idea for placement purposes.

To the OPs points, the timer isnt just to prevent cheaters. Its to provide parameters in which the fight needs to be completed. That becomes part of the strategy. The game has evolved, the defenders have evolved, and so have the attackers. I don't believe the timer changing is considered part of the meta in the way champions are. Longer timers doesn't just mean more champs are viable, it means the fight is easier. More time to bait specials, more time to regen, more time to fight conservative. As far as AQ goes, I do like the design idea of multiple people having to take down a champion no matter how well they fight. ***for the boss. That mechanic would be annoying if its every time on a mini someone is essentially losing a champ. I know it happens at some levels, but thats part of balancing prestige within an alliance.

Will I be up in arms if the timer was changed? No of course not. I just don't see the need to change it the way some others do.

I can totally see and understand your point.
I get what you are saying bout defender placement to force timeouts and i understand that.
I also find it very hard when you fight aggressive getting 154-0 fights and lose half health.
Maybe just extend the timer on the boss fights? as they have easily double the health pool of any others.
What about keeping the timer but removing the health loss? or does this just entice people to force quit?

DNA3000

MrMaat wrote: »

i would like to hear the reasoning from some of these peeps who say no.....

I wouldn't exactly say no, but to amplify what @Primmer79 posted, AQ and AW nodes often have health buffs. The primary reason to buff the health of a target is to lengthen the fight. It is a bit more complicated than this, but since the devs have clearly decided to lengthen fights in many cases with full knowledge that a timer exists, extending the duration of the timer might simply cause them to buff the health of the targets more, because those buffs were created in the context of three minute timers.

To put it another way, the devs make the enemies a certain strength to try to balance the content against how hard they want the content to be. They know how hard it is mostly by looking at game statistics to see how often we succeed and how often we fail to defeat things. If extending the timer reduces the frequency of timeouts, it will in effect increase our success rate. Which would be by definition saying the content got "easier." Which would prompt the devs to try to make it "harder" to compensate, and if they do that by among other things buffing health we'd be back where we started. If they do that by buffing health *and* attack, we could actually find ourselves slightly worse off.

Unfortunately, the timer has been around long enough that it has become a part of the challenge of the content. And that means messing with it would mess with the balance of the content. And the safe assumption is that even if we could convince the devs to change the timer, it would prompt them to eventually rebalance the content. That could have unintended consequences that wipe out the benefits of increasing the duration of the timer.

Lt_Magnum_1

Keep at 3 min for regular fights. 5 min for minibosses and Bosses.

LeNoirFaineant

The timer is definitely too short for AQ. It should be 1/2 an hour...

MrMaat

LeNoirFaineant wrote: »

The timer is definitely too short for AQ. It should be 1/2 an hour...

Lmao. nah dude. half hour timers punish us all.

Seriously wrong timer... lol....

MrMaat

DNA3000 wrote: »

MrMaat wrote: »

i would like to hear the reasoning from some of these peeps who say no.....

I wouldn't exactly say no, but to amplify what @Primmer79 posted, AQ and AW nodes often have health buffs. The primary reason to buff the health of a target is to lengthen the fight. It is a bit more complicated than this, but since the devs have clearly decided to lengthen fights in many cases with full knowledge that a timer exists, extending the duration of the timer might simply cause them to buff the health of the targets more, because those buffs were created in the context of three minute timers.

To put it another way, the devs make the enemies a certain strength to try to balance the content against how hard they want the content to be. They know how hard it is mostly by looking at game statistics to see how often we succeed and how often we fail to defeat things. If extending the timer reduces the frequency of timeouts, it will in effect increase our success rate. Which would be by definition saying the content got "easier." Which would prompt the devs to try to make it "harder" to compensate, and if they do that by among other things buffing health we'd be back where we started. If they do that by buffing health *and* attack, we could actually find ourselves slightly worse off.

Unfortunately, the timer has been around long enough that it has become a part of the challenge of the content. And that means messing with it would mess with the balance of the content. And the safe assumption is that even if we could convince the devs to change the timer, it would prompt them to eventually rebalance the content. That could have unintended consequences that wipe out the benefits of increasing the duration of the timer.

Once again i get your point.
U have valid reasoning
I mainly see it as timers were set at 3 mins long ago when fights were on average quicker.
Now that fights on average are longer timers should go that way too...

Primmer79

MrMaat wrote: »

DNA3000 wrote: »

MrMaat wrote: »

i would like to hear the reasoning from some of these peeps who say no.....

I wouldn't exactly say no, but to amplify what @Primmer79 posted, AQ and AW nodes often have health buffs. The primary reason to buff the health of a target is to lengthen the fight. It is a bit more complicated than this, but since the devs have clearly decided to lengthen fights in many cases with full knowledge that a timer exists, extending the duration of the timer might simply cause them to buff the health of the targets more, because those buffs were created in the context of three minute timers.

To put it another way, the devs make the enemies a certain strength to try to balance the content against how hard they want the content to be. They know how hard it is mostly by looking at game statistics to see how often we succeed and how often we fail to defeat things. If extending the timer reduces the frequency of timeouts, it will in effect increase our success rate. Which would be by definition saying the content got "easier." Which would prompt the devs to try to make it "harder" to compensate, and if they do that by among other things buffing health we'd be back where we started. If they do that by buffing health *and* attack, we could actually find ourselves slightly worse off.

Unfortunately, the timer has been around long enough that it has become a part of the challenge of the content. And that means messing with it would mess with the balance of the content. And the safe assumption is that even if we could convince the devs to change the timer, it would prompt them to eventually rebalance the content. That could have unintended consequences that wipe out the benefits of increasing the duration of the timer.

Once again i get your point.
U have valid reasoning
I mainly see it as timers were set at 3 mins long ago when fights were on average quicker.
Now that fights on average are longer timers should go that way too...

I don't think fights have gotten all that longer. I've seen as I progress, fights get longer, because nodes are tougher or champs are tougher. But overall I haven't noticed that as long as my attackers improve with the defense

MrMaat

Wat about doing something in regards to the health penalty?
Then defence still gets the benifit from forcing a timeout. And reducing the attack bonus.
But you dont get punished and forced to spend potions for really nothing.

Surely kabam can fix the coding and work out how to actually differenciate between force quit and connection error.

But even still here we are talking bout timeout which is a different curcumstance

Primmer79

MrMaat wrote: »

Wat about doing something in regards to the health penalty?
Then defence still gets the benifit from forcing a timeout. And reducing the attack bonus.
But you dont get punished and forced to spend potions for really nothing.

Then you get into tough situations of people force quitting. Right now youd lose health and have to pot up. If you're going to die anyways, force close, and start with full health and save units. Idk if that would fully fix it or cause more problems

DNA3000

MrMaat wrote: »

Wat about doing something in regards to the health penalty?
Then defence still gets the benifit from forcing a timeout. And reducing the attack bonus.
But you dont get punished and forced to spend potions for really nothing.

The health penalty is there because people used to force close out of a fight to reset it. I think there are better ways to handle this, but I'm not sure how many of those ways would be fully cross-platform doable and there would still be exploitable loopholes you'd want to close.

Championcritic

I don't mind a longer time, but I think 4 mins is enough. With 5 mins, anyone can deal damage long enough with any champ

MrMaat

the force quitting is a valid argument however a timeout is different to potential connection error or force quit.
the fight actually runs and finishes properly and would have an actual result.
so i understand the force quit / connection error thing but timeout should be easy for kabam to see as it would yield an actual result.

Primmer79

MrMaat wrote: »

the force quitting is a valid argument however a timeout is different to potential connection error or force quit.
the fight actually runs and finishes properly and would have an actual result.
so i understand the force quit / connection error thing but timeout should be easy for kabam to see as it would yield an actual result.

If you ever watched someone force quit/disconnect, if they don't log back into the game, the timer still runs. You would think it would be easy, and it should be, but it might require some work on their end.

MrMaat

Primmer79 wrote: »

MrMaat wrote: »

the force quitting is a valid argument however a timeout is different to potential connection error or force quit.
the fight actually runs and finishes properly and would have an actual result.
so i understand the force quit / connection error thing but timeout should be easy for kabam to see as it would yield an actual result.

If you ever watched someone force quit/disconnect, if they don't log back into the game, the timer still runs. You would think it would be easy, and it should be, but it might require some work on their end.

yeah but there would certainly be something in the game log that showed that the client connection ended prior to fight finishing.
they could easily treat timeout different to disconect/force quit.

and i mean thats wat the annoying thing is. not the timeout and the loss of attacker bonus but the health loss and the requirement to then spend on potions.

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Primmer79

Haji_Saab wrote: »

Its not only about game evolving and defenders getting stronger but also this:

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/92435/aw-timer-takes-out-more-than-half-of-the-roster#latest

But this fact has never changed. Its not like they had a longer timer and decided to shorten it to force people to use certain attackers. It has always taken out parts of the roster.

See my earlier comment about defenders getting stronger but also attackers getting stronger.

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Primmer79

Haji_Saab wrote: »

Primmer79 wrote: »

Haji_Saab wrote: »

Its not only about game evolving and defenders getting stronger but also this:

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/92435/aw-timer-takes-out-more-than-half-of-the-roster#latest

But this fact has never changed. Its not like they had a longer timer and decided to shorten it to force people to use certain attackers. It has always taken out parts of the roster.

See my earlier comment about defenders getting stronger but also attackers getting stronger.

So? the current effect of the timer is that it makes a large part of the roster and strategies redundant. It's history doesn't matter

Your argument is a little different than whats being spoken about here, or at least taking a different approach. (from what I can tell).

But my response is going to be essentially what @DNA3000 said earlier, with a little more info. I think the underlying issue in your post, is the difference in champions that we have. How the range of god tier to trash tier is so wide. Yeah, the juggs mechanic could take down medusas in quest that arent boosted as boss, but those are untimed.

Right now, with the timer and the nodes, it makes some champions viable, but also gears the difficulty for these champions. If they lengthen the timer to make other champs viable, more people will be defeating the boss easier and they will be adding in health nodes, etc, that will make it more difficult and take up more time anyways.

the only solution to your argument is to have no timer whatsoever, which I don't believe is a good idea.

My point about the history, is there is a reason it is the way it is, which is a crappy excuse, I know.