**Mastery Loadouts**
Due to issues related to the release of Mastery Loadouts, the "free swap" period will be extended.
The new end date will be May 1st.

Yet Another Disappointment - Quitting Time?

2

Comments

  • CapWW2CapWW2 Posts: 2,901 ★★★★
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    It’s hard to believe RNG can be so bad. After getting 5* Karnak, Rhino, and HtD from the featured 5* I decided to go for a basic only to be disappointed with Hulkbuster and OG Cap. That’s fine, whatever. No good pulls for 4 months on that account, at least I have my alt. Struggled a bit with Champion Clash but managed to get it done just to be rewarded with Groot. Ugh ok. Whatever, I’m almost done exploring Act 5. I have a couple expiring T2A with nobody worth ranking but getting 2 crystals and some awakening gems should help my options. Carnage and Karnak (again from featured). Carnage is ok but definitely not R4 material. When you get the same pulls over and over it’s hard to believe it’s just “RNG”. At what point do I just say screw it and finally leave this once and for all?

    Carnage is not rank 4 matrial? You lost me bro. Carnage is God tier now just like venom
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,660 Guardian
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Helicopter_dugdugdug wrote: »
    We’ve all been there ...

    RNG is the worst way to give rewards

    It is the second worst way. The absolute worst way is to allow players to choose their own rewards by preference all of the time. That is short-term pleasant and long term nothing, because it is unlikely for a progressional game like this to survive that system's effects long enough to have a long term. There's simply no way to keep players interests with a collection game where the majority of people can fill their collections in preference order.

    We will always disagree on this subject. While I don’t think players should outright pick their own champs I’m tired of the garbage in crystals. They never let you work to earn a marvelous crystal. You’re always risking getting IP, HB, or Groot. Grinding Act 5 just to pull a 5* Karnak who will just sit on the bench next to my 6* Karnak does nothing for the player base. It only creates numerous posts like this of players on the edge ready to be done with this.

    I'm not sure how much actual disagreement there is here. Players always like control, and will on a short term basis always choose control when given the chance. There's no disagreement there. Where I think we disagree is whether it is good for the game itself for players to get what they want. There's overwhelming evidence that when people design games with randomness in the rewards those games are much more successful, if you define success as more people playing for longer and spending more money while doing so. If you define success as more people being happier while playing but not sticking around for as long, it is different. That's why single player games that are explicitly not "games as a service" (a phrase I personally hate) tend not to have as much randomness. They don't need to employ that kind of reward system, so in general they don't, or greatly moderate it when they do.

    To put it another way, randomness pairs well with open endedness, and choice pairs well with finish lines. Because ultimately the point to choice is to choose a path to completion, for some definition of completion. Completion of progress, completion of roster, completion of some player-specific goal. The question is, should games like this give players the option to decide on their own victory condition, and then reach it and potentially walk away upon reaching it. That's probably a question for game design ethicists, not game developers.
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Posts: 3,474 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Helicopter_dugdugdug wrote: »
    We’ve all been there ...

    RNG is the worst way to give rewards

    It is the second worst way. The absolute worst way is to allow players to choose their own rewards by preference all of the time. That is short-term pleasant and long term nothing, because it is unlikely for a progressional game like this to survive that system's effects long enough to have a long term. There's simply no way to keep players interests with a collection game where the majority of people can fill their collections in preference order.

    We will always disagree on this subject. While I don’t think players should outright pick their own champs I’m tired of the garbage in crystals. They never let you work to earn a marvelous crystal. You’re always risking getting IP, HB, or Groot. Grinding Act 5 just to pull a 5* Karnak who will just sit on the bench next to my 6* Karnak does nothing for the player base. It only creates numerous posts like this of players on the edge ready to be done with this.

    I'm not sure how much actual disagreement there is here. Players always like control, and will on a short term basis always choose control when given the chance. There's no disagreement there. Where I think we disagree is whether it is good for the game itself for players to get what they want. There's overwhelming evidence that when people design games with randomness in the rewards those games are much more successful, if you define success as more people playing for longer and spending more money while doing so. If you define success as more people being happier while playing but not sticking around for as long, it is different. That's why single player games that are explicitly not "games as a service" (a phrase I personally hate) tend not to have as much randomness. They don't need to employ that kind of reward system, so in general they don't, or greatly moderate it when they do.

    To put it another way, randomness pairs well with open endedness, and choice pairs well with finish lines. Because ultimately the point to choice is to choose a path to completion, for some definition of completion. Completion of progress, completion of roster, completion of some player-specific goal. The question is, should games like this give players the option to decide on their own victory condition, and then reach it and potentially walk away upon reaching it. That's probably a question for game design ethicists, not game developers.

    You keep missing my point though. I’m not asking to pick my own rewards from every crystal or even once. I’m simply saying occasionally they should reward a marvelous crystal or at the very least take the trash out of the crystal. As I’ve mentioned I’m not even complaining about no god tier, I couldn’t care less. I’m more frustrated I can’t pull a decent, rankable champ. No Hawkeye, Yondu, Psylocke, or similar that I could see ranking so my T2A don’t expire. Take out the She Hulks, Hulkbusters, Groots, and Colossi once in a while. I might take a closer look into Carnage though. I played around with him on my main a little but he didn’t seem very impressive.
  • RaiserRaiser Posts: 424 ★★
    My 8 months account open 11 5* crystals. guess what i've got. Spider gwen, IP duped, HtD, She hulk, Magneto, karnak, blue cyclops, ronan, falcon and psilocke. Be patience dude. you're on your way on getting a good one. After 11 pulls. I got Quake, Iceman, Hyperion and Gulk in a row..
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,242 ★★★★★
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Helicopter_dugdugdug wrote: »
    We’ve all been there ...

    RNG is the worst way to give rewards

    It is the second worst way. The absolute worst way is to allow players to choose their own rewards by preference all of the time. That is short-term pleasant and long term nothing, because it is unlikely for a progressional game like this to survive that system's effects long enough to have a long term. There's simply no way to keep players interests with a collection game where the majority of people can fill their collections in preference order.

    We will always disagree on this subject. While I don’t think players should outright pick their own champs I’m tired of the garbage in crystals. They never let you work to earn a marvelous crystal. You’re always risking getting IP, HB, or Groot. Grinding Act 5 just to pull a 5* Karnak who will just sit on the bench next to my 6* Karnak does nothing for the player base. It only creates numerous posts like this of players on the edge ready to be done with this.

    I'm not sure how much actual disagreement there is here. Players always like control, and will on a short term basis always choose control when given the chance. There's no disagreement there. Where I think we disagree is whether it is good for the game itself for players to get what they want. There's overwhelming evidence that when people design games with randomness in the rewards those games are much more successful, if you define success as more people playing for longer and spending more money while doing so. If you define success as more people being happier while playing but not sticking around for as long, it is different. That's why single player games that are explicitly not "games as a service" (a phrase I personally hate) tend not to have as much randomness. They don't need to employ that kind of reward system, so in general they don't, or greatly moderate it when they do.

    To put it another way, randomness pairs well with open endedness, and choice pairs well with finish lines. Because ultimately the point to choice is to choose a path to completion, for some definition of completion. Completion of progress, completion of roster, completion of some player-specific goal. The question is, should games like this give players the option to decide on their own victory condition, and then reach it and potentially walk away upon reaching it. That's probably a question for game design ethicists, not game developers.

    You keep missing my point though. I’m not asking to pick my own rewards from every crystal or even once. I’m simply saying occasionally they should reward a marvelous crystal or at the very least take the trash out of the crystal. As I’ve mentioned I’m not even complaining about no god tier, I couldn’t care less. I’m more frustrated I can’t pull a decent, rankable champ. No Hawkeye, Yondu, Psylocke, or similar that I could see ranking so my T2A don’t expire. Take out the She Hulks, Hulkbusters, Groots, and Colossi once in a while. I might take a closer look into Carnage though. I played around with him on my main a little but he didn’t seem very impressive.

    That's just it. The point of having a random Basic Crystal is to have all Champs in it, and the outcome lands where it lands. Otherwise it's no longer a Basic Crystal. What you're suggesting is they devalue their own Champs and label them as trash. That's not likely going to happen, not only because of balance, but because that's their product. While you may have the argument that the data shows what Champs perform better than others, you would most likely be hard-pressed to see them label them as "God/Garbage". Each Champ represents hours of work. If I own a Bakery and the most popular dessert is Cookies, I don't throw the Pies out.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,242 ★★★★★
    Now, if you suggested they have better Rewards for completing Act 5, that might withstand with me. However, I've never been one to agree with cherrypicking the pool.
  • SnizzbarSnizzbar Posts: 2,144 ★★★★★
    edited December 2018
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Helicopter_dugdugdug wrote: »
    We’ve all been there ...

    RNG is the worst way to give rewards

    It is the second worst way. The absolute worst way is to allow players to choose their own rewards by preference all of the time. That is short-term pleasant and long term nothing, because it is unlikely for a progressional game like this to survive that system's effects long enough to have a long term. There's simply no way to keep players interests with a collection game where the majority of people can fill their collections in preference order.

    We will always disagree on this subject. While I don’t think players should outright pick their own champs I’m tired of the garbage in crystals. They never let you work to earn a marvelous crystal. You’re always risking getting IP, HB, or Groot. Grinding Act 5 just to pull a 5* Karnak who will just sit on the bench next to my 6* Karnak does nothing for the player base. It only creates numerous posts like this of players on the edge ready to be done with this.

    I'm not sure how much actual disagreement there is here. Players always like control, and will on a short term basis always choose control when given the chance. There's no disagreement there. Where I think we disagree is whether it is good for the game itself for players to get what they want. There's overwhelming evidence that when people design games with randomness in the rewards those games are much more successful, if you define success as more people playing for longer and spending more money while doing so. If you define success as more people being happier while playing but not sticking around for as long, it is different. That's why single player games that are explicitly not "games as a service" (a phrase I personally hate) tend not to have as much randomness. They don't need to employ that kind of reward system, so in general they don't, or greatly moderate it when they do.

    To put it another way, randomness pairs well with open endedness, and choice pairs well with finish lines. Because ultimately the point to choice is to choose a path to completion, for some definition of completion. Completion of progress, completion of roster, completion of some player-specific goal. The question is, should games like this give players the option to decide on their own victory condition, and then reach it and potentially walk away upon reaching it. That's probably a question for game design ethicists, not game developers.

    You keep missing my point though. I’m not asking to pick my own rewards from every crystal or even once. I’m simply saying occasionally they should reward a marvelous crystal or at the very least take the trash out of the crystal. As I’ve mentioned I’m not even complaining about no god tier, I couldn’t care less. I’m more frustrated I can’t pull a decent, rankable champ. No Hawkeye, Yondu, Psylocke, or similar that I could see ranking so my T2A don’t expire. Take out the She Hulks, Hulkbusters, Groots, and Colossi once in a while. I might take a closer look into Carnage though. I played around with him on my main a little but he didn’t seem very impressive.

    If I own a Bakery and the most popular dessert is Cookies, I don't throw the Pies out.

    But you wouldn't have dogshit sandwiches at your bakery though would you?
    Cause that's what you can pull sometimes from a featured 5*...
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,242 ★★★★★
    Snizzbar wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Helicopter_dugdugdug wrote: »
    We’ve all been there ...

    RNG is the worst way to give rewards

    It is the second worst way. The absolute worst way is to allow players to choose their own rewards by preference all of the time. That is short-term pleasant and long term nothing, because it is unlikely for a progressional game like this to survive that system's effects long enough to have a long term. There's simply no way to keep players interests with a collection game where the majority of people can fill their collections in preference order.

    We will always disagree on this subject. While I don’t think players should outright pick their own champs I’m tired of the garbage in crystals. They never let you work to earn a marvelous crystal. You’re always risking getting IP, HB, or Groot. Grinding Act 5 just to pull a 5* Karnak who will just sit on the bench next to my 6* Karnak does nothing for the player base. It only creates numerous posts like this of players on the edge ready to be done with this.

    I'm not sure how much actual disagreement there is here. Players always like control, and will on a short term basis always choose control when given the chance. There's no disagreement there. Where I think we disagree is whether it is good for the game itself for players to get what they want. There's overwhelming evidence that when people design games with randomness in the rewards those games are much more successful, if you define success as more people playing for longer and spending more money while doing so. If you define success as more people being happier while playing but not sticking around for as long, it is different. That's why single player games that are explicitly not "games as a service" (a phrase I personally hate) tend not to have as much randomness. They don't need to employ that kind of reward system, so in general they don't, or greatly moderate it when they do.

    To put it another way, randomness pairs well with open endedness, and choice pairs well with finish lines. Because ultimately the point to choice is to choose a path to completion, for some definition of completion. Completion of progress, completion of roster, completion of some player-specific goal. The question is, should games like this give players the option to decide on their own victory condition, and then reach it and potentially walk away upon reaching it. That's probably a question for game design ethicists, not game developers.

    You keep missing my point though. I’m not asking to pick my own rewards from every crystal or even once. I’m simply saying occasionally they should reward a marvelous crystal or at the very least take the trash out of the crystal. As I’ve mentioned I’m not even complaining about no god tier, I couldn’t care less. I’m more frustrated I can’t pull a decent, rankable champ. No Hawkeye, Yondu, Psylocke, or similar that I could see ranking so my T2A don’t expire. Take out the She Hulks, Hulkbusters, Groots, and Colossi once in a while. I might take a closer look into Carnage though. I played around with him on my main a little but he didn’t seem very impressive.

    If I own a Bakery and the most popular dessert is Cookies, I don't throw the Pies out.

    But you wouldn't have dogshit sandwiches at your bakery though would you?
    Cause that's what you can pull sometimes from a featured 5*...

    That's a total dramatization.
  • SnizzbarSnizzbar Posts: 2,144 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    Snizzbar wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Helicopter_dugdugdug wrote: »
    We’ve all been there ...

    RNG is the worst way to give rewards

    It is the second worst way. The absolute worst way is to allow players to choose their own rewards by preference all of the time. That is short-term pleasant and long term nothing, because it is unlikely for a progressional game like this to survive that system's effects long enough to have a long term. There's simply no way to keep players interests with a collection game where the majority of people can fill their collections in preference order.

    We will always disagree on this subject. While I don’t think players should outright pick their own champs I’m tired of the garbage in crystals. They never let you work to earn a marvelous crystal. You’re always risking getting IP, HB, or Groot. Grinding Act 5 just to pull a 5* Karnak who will just sit on the bench next to my 6* Karnak does nothing for the player base. It only creates numerous posts like this of players on the edge ready to be done with this.

    I'm not sure how much actual disagreement there is here. Players always like control, and will on a short term basis always choose control when given the chance. There's no disagreement there. Where I think we disagree is whether it is good for the game itself for players to get what they want. There's overwhelming evidence that when people design games with randomness in the rewards those games are much more successful, if you define success as more people playing for longer and spending more money while doing so. If you define success as more people being happier while playing but not sticking around for as long, it is different. That's why single player games that are explicitly not "games as a service" (a phrase I personally hate) tend not to have as much randomness. They don't need to employ that kind of reward system, so in general they don't, or greatly moderate it when they do.

    To put it another way, randomness pairs well with open endedness, and choice pairs well with finish lines. Because ultimately the point to choice is to choose a path to completion, for some definition of completion. Completion of progress, completion of roster, completion of some player-specific goal. The question is, should games like this give players the option to decide on their own victory condition, and then reach it and potentially walk away upon reaching it. That's probably a question for game design ethicists, not game developers.

    You keep missing my point though. I’m not asking to pick my own rewards from every crystal or even once. I’m simply saying occasionally they should reward a marvelous crystal or at the very least take the trash out of the crystal. As I’ve mentioned I’m not even complaining about no god tier, I couldn’t care less. I’m more frustrated I can’t pull a decent, rankable champ. No Hawkeye, Yondu, Psylocke, or similar that I could see ranking so my T2A don’t expire. Take out the She Hulks, Hulkbusters, Groots, and Colossi once in a while. I might take a closer look into Carnage though. I played around with him on my main a little but he didn’t seem very impressive.

    If I own a Bakery and the most popular dessert is Cookies, I don't throw the Pies out.

    But you wouldn't have dogshit sandwiches at your bakery though would you?
    Cause that's what you can pull sometimes from a featured 5*...

    That's a total dramatization.

    No, that's my opinion.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,242 ★★★★★
    Snizzbar wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    Snizzbar wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Helicopter_dugdugdug wrote: »
    We’ve all been there ...

    RNG is the worst way to give rewards

    It is the second worst way. The absolute worst way is to allow players to choose their own rewards by preference all of the time. That is short-term pleasant and long term nothing, because it is unlikely for a progressional game like this to survive that system's effects long enough to have a long term. There's simply no way to keep players interests with a collection game where the majority of people can fill their collections in preference order.

    We will always disagree on this subject. While I don’t think players should outright pick their own champs I’m tired of the garbage in crystals. They never let you work to earn a marvelous crystal. You’re always risking getting IP, HB, or Groot. Grinding Act 5 just to pull a 5* Karnak who will just sit on the bench next to my 6* Karnak does nothing for the player base. It only creates numerous posts like this of players on the edge ready to be done with this.

    I'm not sure how much actual disagreement there is here. Players always like control, and will on a short term basis always choose control when given the chance. There's no disagreement there. Where I think we disagree is whether it is good for the game itself for players to get what they want. There's overwhelming evidence that when people design games with randomness in the rewards those games are much more successful, if you define success as more people playing for longer and spending more money while doing so. If you define success as more people being happier while playing but not sticking around for as long, it is different. That's why single player games that are explicitly not "games as a service" (a phrase I personally hate) tend not to have as much randomness. They don't need to employ that kind of reward system, so in general they don't, or greatly moderate it when they do.

    To put it another way, randomness pairs well with open endedness, and choice pairs well with finish lines. Because ultimately the point to choice is to choose a path to completion, for some definition of completion. Completion of progress, completion of roster, completion of some player-specific goal. The question is, should games like this give players the option to decide on their own victory condition, and then reach it and potentially walk away upon reaching it. That's probably a question for game design ethicists, not game developers.

    You keep missing my point though. I’m not asking to pick my own rewards from every crystal or even once. I’m simply saying occasionally they should reward a marvelous crystal or at the very least take the trash out of the crystal. As I’ve mentioned I’m not even complaining about no god tier, I couldn’t care less. I’m more frustrated I can’t pull a decent, rankable champ. No Hawkeye, Yondu, Psylocke, or similar that I could see ranking so my T2A don’t expire. Take out the She Hulks, Hulkbusters, Groots, and Colossi once in a while. I might take a closer look into Carnage though. I played around with him on my main a little but he didn’t seem very impressive.

    If I own a Bakery and the most popular dessert is Cookies, I don't throw the Pies out.

    But you wouldn't have dogshit sandwiches at your bakery though would you?
    Cause that's what you can pull sometimes from a featured 5*...

    That's a total dramatization.

    No, that's my opinion.

    Comparing it to a Dookie Hogie is dramatic. Lol.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,242 ★★★★★
    The point is, we're all going to pull Champs we don't want. Well, I could care less. I just want some more than others. Lol. I still put them to use somehow. Whether the Arena or other. Fact is, people usually maintain a very short list of what they consider useful or not. Very few actually take the time to get to know them and think of applications. Not necessarily the OP specifically. Just in general. There's a popular list everyone is going for, and the rest are put on the shelf and labeled ****.
  • SnizzbarSnizzbar Posts: 2,144 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    Snizzbar wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    Snizzbar wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Helicopter_dugdugdug wrote: »
    We’ve all been there ...

    RNG is the worst way to give rewards

    It is the second worst way. The absolute worst way is to allow players to choose their own rewards by preference all of the time. That is short-term pleasant and long term nothing, because it is unlikely for a progressional game like this to survive that system's effects long enough to have a long term. There's simply no way to keep players interests with a collection game where the majority of people can fill their collections in preference order.

    We will always disagree on this subject. While I don’t think players should outright pick their own champs I’m tired of the garbage in crystals. They never let you work to earn a marvelous crystal. You’re always risking getting IP, HB, or Groot. Grinding Act 5 just to pull a 5* Karnak who will just sit on the bench next to my 6* Karnak does nothing for the player base. It only creates numerous posts like this of players on the edge ready to be done with this.

    I'm not sure how much actual disagreement there is here. Players always like control, and will on a short term basis always choose control when given the chance. There's no disagreement there. Where I think we disagree is whether it is good for the game itself for players to get what they want. There's overwhelming evidence that when people design games with randomness in the rewards those games are much more successful, if you define success as more people playing for longer and spending more money while doing so. If you define success as more people being happier while playing but not sticking around for as long, it is different. That's why single player games that are explicitly not "games as a service" (a phrase I personally hate) tend not to have as much randomness. They don't need to employ that kind of reward system, so in general they don't, or greatly moderate it when they do.

    To put it another way, randomness pairs well with open endedness, and choice pairs well with finish lines. Because ultimately the point to choice is to choose a path to completion, for some definition of completion. Completion of progress, completion of roster, completion of some player-specific goal. The question is, should games like this give players the option to decide on their own victory condition, and then reach it and potentially walk away upon reaching it. That's probably a question for game design ethicists, not game developers.

    You keep missing my point though. I’m not asking to pick my own rewards from every crystal or even once. I’m simply saying occasionally they should reward a marvelous crystal or at the very least take the trash out of the crystal. As I’ve mentioned I’m not even complaining about no god tier, I couldn’t care less. I’m more frustrated I can’t pull a decent, rankable champ. No Hawkeye, Yondu, Psylocke, or similar that I could see ranking so my T2A don’t expire. Take out the She Hulks, Hulkbusters, Groots, and Colossi once in a while. I might take a closer look into Carnage though. I played around with him on my main a little but he didn’t seem very impressive.

    If I own a Bakery and the most popular dessert is Cookies, I don't throw the Pies out.

    But you wouldn't have dogshit sandwiches at your bakery though would you?
    Cause that's what you can pull sometimes from a featured 5*...

    That's a total dramatization.

    No, that's my opinion.

    Comparing it to a Dookie Hogie is dramatic. Lol.

    And that's your opinion.
    I believe that a large proportion of the champs in this game are 99% useless to me, and pulling some of the worst ones gives me such a bad taste in my mouth it feels like I've just taken a bite of a turd burger. Metaphorically, of course.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,242 ★★★★★
    edited December 2018
    Snizzbar wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    Snizzbar wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    Snizzbar wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Helicopter_dugdugdug wrote: »
    We’ve all been there ...

    RNG is the worst way to give rewards

    It is the second worst way. The absolute worst way is to allow players to choose their own rewards by preference all of the time. That is short-term pleasant and long term nothing, because it is unlikely for a progressional game like this to survive that system's effects long enough to have a long term. There's simply no way to keep players interests with a collection game where the majority of people can fill their collections in preference order.

    We will always disagree on this subject. While I don’t think players should outright pick their own champs I’m tired of the garbage in crystals. They never let you work to earn a marvelous crystal. You’re always risking getting IP, HB, or Groot. Grinding Act 5 just to pull a 5* Karnak who will just sit on the bench next to my 6* Karnak does nothing for the player base. It only creates numerous posts like this of players on the edge ready to be done with this.

    I'm not sure how much actual disagreement there is here. Players always like control, and will on a short term basis always choose control when given the chance. There's no disagreement there. Where I think we disagree is whether it is good for the game itself for players to get what they want. There's overwhelming evidence that when people design games with randomness in the rewards those games are much more successful, if you define success as more people playing for longer and spending more money while doing so. If you define success as more people being happier while playing but not sticking around for as long, it is different. That's why single player games that are explicitly not "games as a service" (a phrase I personally hate) tend not to have as much randomness. They don't need to employ that kind of reward system, so in general they don't, or greatly moderate it when they do.

    To put it another way, randomness pairs well with open endedness, and choice pairs well with finish lines. Because ultimately the point to choice is to choose a path to completion, for some definition of completion. Completion of progress, completion of roster, completion of some player-specific goal. The question is, should games like this give players the option to decide on their own victory condition, and then reach it and potentially walk away upon reaching it. That's probably a question for game design ethicists, not game developers.

    You keep missing my point though. I’m not asking to pick my own rewards from every crystal or even once. I’m simply saying occasionally they should reward a marvelous crystal or at the very least take the trash out of the crystal. As I’ve mentioned I’m not even complaining about no god tier, I couldn’t care less. I’m more frustrated I can’t pull a decent, rankable champ. No Hawkeye, Yondu, Psylocke, or similar that I could see ranking so my T2A don’t expire. Take out the She Hulks, Hulkbusters, Groots, and Colossi once in a while. I might take a closer look into Carnage though. I played around with him on my main a little but he didn’t seem very impressive.

    If I own a Bakery and the most popular dessert is Cookies, I don't throw the Pies out.

    But you wouldn't have dogshit sandwiches at your bakery though would you?
    Cause that's what you can pull sometimes from a featured 5*...

    That's a total dramatization.

    No, that's my opinion.

    Comparing it to a Dookie Hogie is dramatic. Lol.

    And that's your opinion.
    I believe that a large proportion of the champs in this game are 99% useless to me, and pulling some of the worst ones gives me such a bad taste in my mouth it feels like I've just taken a bite of a turd burger. Metaphorically, of course.

    Thank you for highlighting my previous comment. Lol.
  • BadroseBadrose Posts: 779 ★★★
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    It’s hard to believe RNG can be so bad. After getting 5* Karnak, Rhino, and HtD from the featured 5* I decided to go for a basic only to be disappointed with Hulkbuster and OG Cap. That’s fine, whatever. No good pulls for 4 months on that account, at least I have my alt. Struggled a bit with Champion Clash but managed to get it done just to be rewarded with Groot. Ugh ok. Whatever, I’m almost done exploring Act 5. I have a couple expiring T2A with nobody worth ranking but getting 2 crystals and some awakening gems should help my options. Carnage and Karnak (again from featured). Carnage is ok but definitely not R4 material. When you get the same pulls over and over it’s hard to believe it’s just “RNG”. At what point do I just say screw it and finally leave this once and for all?

    I still yet have to find a champion released in 2018 and I have about 80 5s... What should I say? (Got Hulk Rag as 6S recently, that is my only 2018 champion).
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Posts: 3,474 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    The point is, we're all going to pull Champs we don't want. Well, I could care less. I just want some more than others. Lol. I still put them to use somehow. Whether the Arena or other. Fact is, people usually maintain a very short list of what they consider useful or not. Very few actually take the time to get to know them and think of applications. Not necessarily the OP specifically. Just in general. There's a popular list everyone is going for, and the rest are put on the shelf and labeled ****.

    If you’re like me and you don’t do arena, most champs are pretty much useless. As I keep saying over and over I’m not just looking for the select few god tier. I can work with useful champs. But champs like Karnak and Hulkbuster add zero value to my roster. I would sooner use my 4* KM over my 6* Karnak.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,242 ★★★★★
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    The point is, we're all going to pull Champs we don't want. Well, I could care less. I just want some more than others. Lol. I still put them to use somehow. Whether the Arena or other. Fact is, people usually maintain a very short list of what they consider useful or not. Very few actually take the time to get to know them and think of applications. Not necessarily the OP specifically. Just in general. There's a popular list everyone is going for, and the rest are put on the shelf and labeled ****.

    If you’re like me and you don’t do arena, most champs are pretty much useless. As I keep saying over and over I’m not just looking for the select few god tier. I can work with useful champs. But champs like Karnak and Hulkbuster add zero value to my roster. I would sooner use my 4* KM over my 6* Karnak.

    I don't mind Karnak that much.
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Posts: 3,474 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    The point is, we're all going to pull Champs we don't want. Well, I could care less. I just want some more than others. Lol. I still put them to use somehow. Whether the Arena or other. Fact is, people usually maintain a very short list of what they consider useful or not. Very few actually take the time to get to know them and think of applications. Not necessarily the OP specifically. Just in general. There's a popular list everyone is going for, and the rest are put on the shelf and labeled ****.

    If you’re like me and you don’t do arena, most champs are pretty much useless. As I keep saying over and over I’m not just looking for the select few god tier. I can work with useful champs. But champs like Karnak and Hulkbuster add zero value to my roster. I would sooner use my 4* KM over my 6* Karnak.

    I don't mind Karnak that much.

    *sigh* nevermind. You don’t get it.
  • skullduggery72skullduggery72 Posts: 224 ★★
    My last 5 5*s have been juggs, storm, CW, colossus and Colossus ! RNG sucks big time. Opened 72 5* crystals in total, pulled 3 god tier and 3 high Demi, 4 low Demi. Not great. Kabam can fix this BS EASILY GIVE US A 5* BASIC ARENA WITH 10% winning the 5* also increase the featured prizes from the PATHETIC 150 TO 1000. Simple and well overdue
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,242 ★★★★★
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    The point is, we're all going to pull Champs we don't want. Well, I could care less. I just want some more than others. Lol. I still put them to use somehow. Whether the Arena or other. Fact is, people usually maintain a very short list of what they consider useful or not. Very few actually take the time to get to know them and think of applications. Not necessarily the OP specifically. Just in general. There's a popular list everyone is going for, and the rest are put on the shelf and labeled ****.

    If you’re like me and you don’t do arena, most champs are pretty much useless. As I keep saying over and over I’m not just looking for the select few god tier. I can work with useful champs. But champs like Karnak and Hulkbuster add zero value to my roster. I would sooner use my 4* KM over my 6* Karnak.

    I don't mind Karnak that much.

    *sigh* nevermind. You don’t get it.

    I get that you're not happy with pulling him. I'm just not as opposed to him as you are. I used to be. Last year. I hated his slow mechanics. Now that I've used him a fair amount, I don't mind him. Just preference is all.
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Posts: 3,474 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    The point is, we're all going to pull Champs we don't want. Well, I could care less. I just want some more than others. Lol. I still put them to use somehow. Whether the Arena or other. Fact is, people usually maintain a very short list of what they consider useful or not. Very few actually take the time to get to know them and think of applications. Not necessarily the OP specifically. Just in general. There's a popular list everyone is going for, and the rest are put on the shelf and labeled ****.

    If you’re like me and you don’t do arena, most champs are pretty much useless. As I keep saying over and over I’m not just looking for the select few god tier. I can work with useful champs. But champs like Karnak and Hulkbuster add zero value to my roster. I would sooner use my 4* KM over my 6* Karnak.

    I don't mind Karnak that much.

    *sigh* nevermind. You don’t get it.

    I get that you're not happy with pulling him. I'm just not as opposed to him as you are. I used to be. Last year. I hated his slow mechanics. Now that I've used him a fair amount, I don't mind him. Just preference is all.

    Well I’m truly glad you found a use for him. I guess I’m just more picky. I’m not going to take Karnak into Uncollected. I would take Hawkeye into uncollected. I value champs differently than others.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,242 ★★★★★
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    The point is, we're all going to pull Champs we don't want. Well, I could care less. I just want some more than others. Lol. I still put them to use somehow. Whether the Arena or other. Fact is, people usually maintain a very short list of what they consider useful or not. Very few actually take the time to get to know them and think of applications. Not necessarily the OP specifically. Just in general. There's a popular list everyone is going for, and the rest are put on the shelf and labeled ****.

    If you’re like me and you don’t do arena, most champs are pretty much useless. As I keep saying over and over I’m not just looking for the select few god tier. I can work with useful champs. But champs like Karnak and Hulkbuster add zero value to my roster. I would sooner use my 4* KM over my 6* Karnak.

    I don't mind Karnak that much.

    *sigh* nevermind. You don’t get it.

    I get that you're not happy with pulling him. I'm just not as opposed to him as you are. I used to be. Last year. I hated his slow mechanics. Now that I've used him a fair amount, I don't mind him. Just preference is all.

    Well I’m truly glad you found a use for him. I guess I’m just more picky. I’m not going to take Karnak into Uncollected. I would take Hawkeye into uncollected. I value champs differently than others.

    Guess that depends on what you're going up against. HE has Power Control, but if you had no other options with True Strike, that could help with Auto Block and Evade.
  • NEO_mr_AndersonNEO_mr_Anderson Posts: 1,075 ★★★
    My 5* since I've start playing (total of 8 months)

    1- RHulk (before buff)
    2-IM
    3-CW
    4-Storm
    5-Magneto
    6-Angela
    7-Rocket
    8-YJ
    9-Ultron
    10-ST
    11-Sparky
    12-Groot
    13-HE

    The bold ones are the ones I considere myself lucky.
    So, 6/13, not too bad, imo.
  • ReferenceReference Posts: 2,899 ★★★★★
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    It’s hard to believe RNG can be so bad. After getting 5* Karnak, Rhino, and HtD from the featured 5* I decided to go for a basic only to be disappointed with Hulkbuster and OG Cap. That’s fine, whatever. No good pulls for 4 months on that account, at least I have my alt. Struggled a bit with Champion Clash but managed to get it done just to be rewarded with Groot. Ugh ok. Whatever, I’m almost done exploring Act 5. I have a couple expiring T2A with nobody worth ranking but getting 2 crystals and some awakening gems should help my options. Carnage and Karnak (again from featured). Carnage is ok but definitely not R4 material. When you get the same pulls over and over it’s hard to believe it’s just “RNG”. At what point do I just say screw it and finally leave this once and for all?

    I suggest you change your mindset and treat RNG like playing slot machine at Casino (in fact they are petty similar). Once again they have algorithm behind RNG which I doubt if it is simple poisson distribution.
  • Captain_NietschCaptain_Nietsch Posts: 481 ★★
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Helicopter_dugdugdug wrote: »
    We’ve all been there ...

    RNG is the worst way to give rewards

    It is the second worst way. The absolute worst way is to allow players to choose their own rewards by preference all of the time. That is short-term pleasant and long term nothing, because it is unlikely for a progressional game like this to survive that system's effects long enough to have a long term. There's simply no way to keep players interests with a collection game where the majority of people can fill their collections in preference order.

    We will always disagree on this subject. While I don’t think players should outright pick their own champs I’m tired of the garbage in crystals. They never let you work to earn a marvelous crystal. You’re always risking getting IP, HB, or Groot. Grinding Act 5 just to pull a 5* Karnak who will just sit on the bench next to my 6* Karnak does nothing for the player base. It only creates numerous posts like this of players on the edge ready to be done with this.

    I'm not sure how much actual disagreement there is here. Players always like control, and will on a short term basis always choose control when given the chance. There's no disagreement there. Where I think we disagree is whether it is good for the game itself for players to get what they want. There's overwhelming evidence that when people design games with randomness in the rewards those games are much more successful, if you define success as more people playing for longer and spending more money while doing so. If you define success as more people being happier while playing but not sticking around for as long, it is different. That's why single player games that are explicitly not "games as a service" (a phrase I personally hate) tend not to have as much randomness. They don't need to employ that kind of reward system, so in general they don't, or greatly moderate it when they do.

    To put it another way, randomness pairs well with open endedness, and choice pairs well with finish lines. Because ultimately the point to choice is to choose a path to completion, for some definition of completion. Completion of progress, completion of roster, completion of some player-specific goal. The question is, should games like this give players the option to decide on their own victory condition, and then reach it and potentially walk away upon reaching it. That's probably a question for game design ethicists, not game developers.

    You keep missing my point though. I’m not asking to pick my own rewards from every crystal or even once. I’m simply saying occasionally they should reward a marvelous crystal or at the very least take the trash out of the crystal. As I’ve mentioned I’m not even complaining about no god tier, I couldn’t care less. I’m more frustrated I can’t pull a decent, rankable champ. No Hawkeye, Yondu, Psylocke, or similar that I could see ranking so my T2A don’t expire. Take out the She Hulks, Hulkbusters, Groots, and Colossi once in a while. I might take a closer look into Carnage though. I played around with him on my main a little but he didn’t seem very impressive.

    Yes, that could be achieved by sometimes letting you choose between crystals of different classes or different types of champs, to narrow down and increase the chance a bit to get what that particular player actually wants, or needs.
    But it would have to be used sparingly.
  • Helicopter_dugdugdugHelicopter_dugdugdug Posts: 555 ★★★
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Helicopter_dugdugdug wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Helicopter_dugdugdug wrote: »
    We’ve all been there ...

    RNG is the worst way to give rewards

    It is the second worst way. The absolute worst way is to allow players to choose their own rewards by preference all of the time. That is short-term pleasant and long term nothing, because it is unlikely for a progressional game like this to survive that system's effects long enough to have a long term. There's simply no way to keep players interests with a collection game where the majority of people can fill their collections in preference order.

    Its called a skill wall that can be built around prizes like they could have put the holy trinity as prize for 100% lol.. just to give an example

    Sure, that would be one example of the worst possible way to do it.

    Sooo , putting your first r4 5* behind act 4 100%, first r5 5* behind act 5 100%, uncollected behind collector, 4* cyclops who was a necessary member of the only all 4* perfect block team behinf ROL were all bad deaigns? And worst possible ways to award these things?

    Also can u point to a game that u have designed before u post next time about from your experience of a game design? Because until u do that, i suggest getting off that mighty tall horse that u have perched yourself on as a self appointed “game design” expert
  • Crazyjack719Crazyjack719 Posts: 425 ★★
    Keep at it bud. With over 100 champs in the crystal you are more likely to get **** than get something good. Im at 36 5* and 3 6* and only 30% are above what i consider r4/r5/r2 worthy. I assume that number will fluctuate but i just focus on who i like to play instead of worrying who i want to get.
  • EvilEmpireEvilEmpire Posts: 639 ★★★
    It would be nice if occasionally they had a pool of A and B tier champs so by completing the content you were “guaranteed” something of quality but their whole business model is RNG so they won’t ever get away from that. It’s unfortunate that guys will go thru painful dry spells that in some cases cause player to quit out of frustration tho. If it were my business I would never want to push my customers to that point 🤷‍♂️ At the same time the game would be stupid if you just got to cherry pick all the best champs so their has to be a balance.
  • G0311G0311 Posts: 913 ★★★
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    It’s hard to believe RNG can be so bad. After getting 5* Karnak, Rhino, and HtD from the featured 5* I decided to go for a basic only to be disappointed with Hulkbuster and OG Cap. That’s fine, whatever. No good pulls for 4 months on that account, at least I have my alt. Struggled a bit with Champion Clash but managed to get it done just to be rewarded with Groot. Ugh ok. Whatever, I’m almost done exploring Act 5. I have a couple expiring T2A with nobody worth ranking but getting 2 crystals and some awakening gems should help my options. Carnage and Karnak (again from featured). Carnage is ok but definitely not R4 material. When you get the same pulls over and over it’s hard to believe it’s just “RNG”. At what point do I just say screw it and finally leave this once and for all?

    RNG, is a mother. At least back in the days you had a 20% chance to pull a specific champ from the old 5* featured. With more champs added to the 5 and 6* roster we need a better way to pull specific champs and better drop rates.
  • ThatOneMasterGamerThatOneMasterGamer Posts: 810 ★★★
    I get it,RNG can be bad,but you have to carry on.I also got a bad champ last time(third 5* champ).I worked hard for my next 5* hero crystal and if I get something bad I'm gonna be angry.Also you're getting more 5* heroes than me,I'm not uncollected and at my situation I should.So if I got ones like you,I'll be kinda mad to,but I would still use them.
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