Clarification on Medusa vs Medusa Offensive Ability Reduction

Just fought Medusa in alliance war using my own 5/50 duped Medusa. My reasoning behind this fight was that inflicting armor shatter against Medusa would reduce her Offensive ability accuracy by 100%, meaning that she should not have triggered Living Strands and auto-blocked me, except that she did. Keep in mind Medusa is labeled as an "Offensive" champion.


So my question is this, does Medusa's "Living Strands" signature count as an Offensive Ability?

Comments

  • will-o-wispwill-o-wisp Posts: 7,243 Guardian
    edited January 22
    It is not.
    I think you are mistaking what armor shattered does. The -100% ability accuracy and power gain only affect Robot champions.
    Medusa is not a robot
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,452 Guardian
    1. Armor shatter doesn't reduce "offensive ability accuracy" it reduces ability accuracy. But I'm pretty sure only for robots.
    Armor Shattered
    * When the opponent suffers from 6 active Armor Break Debuffs, their Armor Breaks will turn into an Armor Shattered Debuff, reducing Armor Rating by XXXX for 26 seconds.
    * While Armor Shattered is active, opponents cannot suffer from further Armor Breaks nor activate their Armor Buffs. Additionally, this Debuff shatters Robot Champions systems, reducing their Ability Accuracy and Power Gain by 100%.

    2. In general, "Offensive Ability Accuracy" refers to abilities that trigger when an attack lands *by* the champion. Defensive Ability Accuracy generally refers to abilities that trigger when an attack lands *on* the champion. Abilities that are not triggered by either may have ability accuracy but will only be reduced by general ability accuracy debuffs. Even if Armor Shatter debuffed offensive ability accuracy on everyone I believe it would not affect Living Strands.
  • KRONOSDOUBLEKRONOSDOUBLE Posts: 548
    @will-o-wisp thanks for the clarification. should have read it better
  • MaatManMaatMan Posts: 958 ★★★
    edited January 22
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    1. Armor shatter doesn't reduce "offensive ability accuracy" it reduces ability accuracy. But I'm pretty sure only for robots.
    Armor Shattered
    * When the opponent suffers from 6 active Armor Break Debuffs, their Armor Breaks will turn into an Armor Shattered Debuff, reducing Armor Rating by XXXX for 26 seconds.
    * While Armor Shattered is active, opponents cannot suffer from further Armor Breaks nor activate their Armor Buffs. Additionally, this Debuff shatters Robot Champions systems, reducing their Ability Accuracy and Power Gain by 100%.

    2. In general, "Offensive Ability Accuracy" refers to abilities that trigger when an attack lands *by* the champion. Defensive Ability Accuracy generally refers to abilities that trigger when an attack lands *on* the champion. Abilities that are not triggered by either may have ability accuracy but will only be reduced by general ability accuracy debuffs. Even if Armor Shatter debuffed offensive ability accuracy on everyone I believe it would not affect Living Strands.

    @DNA3000
    also bear in mind abilities that trigger when a champ reaches a particular health level.
    ie.
    SIM, IM, Ultron regen. they are not triggered by getting hit. they are triggered by health loss regardless of how the health loss happens. These are countered by defensive ability reduction
    also Evade, which is not when an attack "lands on" the champion but when an attack is "made against" the champion. evade can be stopped by defensive ability reduction
    champs with endure, indestructible like, Punisher, Hela, Pheonix. once again triggered by reachin 0% health regardless of how it happens. and can be stopped by DAR.
    i am not sure but i also believe magik limbo on gaining a bar of power is affected by DAR.

    so you have DAR affecting abilities that are triggered by being hit, or are defensive in nature like regen and evade.

    OAR would affect abilities that are triggered when making a hit. (not sure if any others are covered by OAR or not)

    but yes living strands is an autoblock and has the same triggers as evade and therfore is affected by DAR
  • MaatManMaatMan Posts: 958 ★★★
    edited January 22
    also ability accuracy is broken into 2 parts.
    Offensive and Defensive.
    abilities that benefit or are triggered by offence abilities ie attacks
    and abilities that benefit or are triggered by defense abilities ie block, evade

    ability accuracy reduction is broken into 3 categories.
    OAR - reduces offensive abilities
    DAR - reduces defensive abilities
    AAR - reduces all abilities
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,452 Guardian
    MaatMan wrote: »
    @DNA3000
    also bear in mind abilities that trigger when a champ reaches a particular health level.

    Yes, that and others you mentioned are exceptions. I believe there is a technical explanation for that, but it would be mechanical guesswork on my part and beyond the scope of the thread. Offensive Ability Accuracy is somewhat more simple, Defensive Ability Accuracy is the one with a few more interesting exceptions.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,452 Guardian
    MaatMan wrote: »
    also ability accuracy is broken into 2 parts.
    Offensive and Defensive.
    abilities that benefit or are triggered by offence abilities ie attacks
    and abilities that benefit or are triggered by defense abilities ie block, evade

    ability accuracy reduction is broken into 3 categories.
    OAR - reduces offensive abilities
    DAR - reduces defensive abilities
    AAR - reduces all abilities

    Actually, there are two "ability accuracies" in the game. First of all, certain abilities have an ability accuracy which is the chance for them to take effect. Sometimes we are told this (like Stark Spiderman's 3% chance to evade) and sometimes we are not (Ultron has a 100% chance to heal when his health drops below certain thresholds; we are just told he heals). Second, every champion actually has an attribute called "Ability Accuracy" that we just don't see under their attributes. It defaults to 100%. Whenever a champion has an ability with ability accuracy the actual chance for that ability to trigger is the intrinsic ability accuracy multiplied by the champion's ability accuracy. When we debuff ability accuracy, we are actually debuffing this champion AA. Since it gets multiplied by the actual ability accuracy, we don't really "see" the difference.

    Offensive AA and Defensive AA are conditional debuffs. They act to reduce champion AA under those conditions we discussed earlier.

    Since we are here, I might as well mention many things have no ability accuracy and thus are not affected by ability accuracy debuffs, even if they sometimes have a listed chance to occur. For example critical hits have a chance, but this is not ability accuracy. Abilities can have a fixed chance for a particular effect to occur but the effect itself isn't an ability and thus isn't affected by ability accuracy debuffs. Power that is gained by a target when you hit it is not an ability and unaffected by ability accuracy debuffs. And sometimes an ability has literally no "ability accuracy" because they just always happen. For example, Starlord's attack increases with combo, but no amount of ability accuracy reduction can change that.
  • MaatManMaatMan Posts: 958 ★★★
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    MaatMan wrote: »
    also ability accuracy is broken into 2 parts.
    Offensive and Defensive.
    abilities that benefit or are triggered by offence abilities ie attacks
    and abilities that benefit or are triggered by defense abilities ie block, evade

    ability accuracy reduction is broken into 3 categories.
    OAR - reduces offensive abilities
    DAR - reduces defensive abilities
    AAR - reduces all abilities

    Actually, there are two "ability accuracies" in the game. First of all, certain abilities have an ability accuracy which is the chance for them to take effect. Sometimes we are told this (like Stark Spiderman's 3% chance to evade) and sometimes we are not (Ultron has a 100% chance to heal when his health drops below certain thresholds; we are just told he heals). Second, every champion actually has an attribute called "Ability Accuracy" that we just don't see under their attributes. It defaults to 100%. Whenever a champion has an ability with ability accuracy the actual chance for that ability to trigger is the intrinsic ability accuracy multiplied by the champion's ability accuracy. When we debuff ability accuracy, we are actually debuffing this champion AA. Since it gets multiplied by the actual ability accuracy, we don't really "see" the difference.

    Offensive AA and Defensive AA are conditional debuffs. They act to reduce champion AA under those conditions we discussed earlier.

    Since we are here, I might as well mention many things have no ability accuracy and thus are not affected by ability accuracy debuffs, even if they sometimes have a listed chance to occur. For example critical hits have a chance, but this is not ability accuracy. Abilities can have a fixed chance for a particular effect to occur but the effect itself isn't an ability and thus isn't affected by ability accuracy debuffs. Power that is gained by a target when you hit it is not an ability and unaffected by ability accuracy debuffs. And sometimes an ability has literally no "ability accuracy" because they just always happen. For example, Starlord's attack increases with combo, but no amount of ability accuracy reduction can change that.

    i think mostly where you have said something different to wat i have lies in the wording and understanding.

    when i refered to 2 types of AA and 3 types of AAR i was refering only to the Abilities that have any modifiable accuracy.
    whilst i think we are mostly saying the same thing,
    i just wanted to clarify that abilities that cant be reduced like Critical hits, block proficiency, critical hits through block, perfect block, etc are not normally reducable and would require something special to reduce their accuracy and i was not including those.

    however with that being said.
    dexterity, block proficiency, critical hits, are all standard abilities that once were guarunteed.
    now there are nodes and champs that can specifically interact with those and reduce and/or stop them.
    so how long before we see abilities/nodes that can counter and stop things like SL combo meter???
    so is there really any ability that cannot be reduced? or is it just a matter of time.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,452 Guardian
    MaatMan wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    MaatMan wrote: »
    also ability accuracy is broken into 2 parts.
    Offensive and Defensive.
    abilities that benefit or are triggered by offence abilities ie attacks
    and abilities that benefit or are triggered by defense abilities ie block, evade

    ability accuracy reduction is broken into 3 categories.
    OAR - reduces offensive abilities
    DAR - reduces defensive abilities
    AAR - reduces all abilities

    Actually, there are two "ability accuracies" in the game. First of all, certain abilities have an ability accuracy which is the chance for them to take effect. Sometimes we are told this (like Stark Spiderman's 3% chance to evade) and sometimes we are not (Ultron has a 100% chance to heal when his health drops below certain thresholds; we are just told he heals). Second, every champion actually has an attribute called "Ability Accuracy" that we just don't see under their attributes. It defaults to 100%. Whenever a champion has an ability with ability accuracy the actual chance for that ability to trigger is the intrinsic ability accuracy multiplied by the champion's ability accuracy. When we debuff ability accuracy, we are actually debuffing this champion AA. Since it gets multiplied by the actual ability accuracy, we don't really "see" the difference.

    Offensive AA and Defensive AA are conditional debuffs. They act to reduce champion AA under those conditions we discussed earlier.

    Since we are here, I might as well mention many things have no ability accuracy and thus are not affected by ability accuracy debuffs, even if they sometimes have a listed chance to occur. For example critical hits have a chance, but this is not ability accuracy. Abilities can have a fixed chance for a particular effect to occur but the effect itself isn't an ability and thus isn't affected by ability accuracy debuffs. Power that is gained by a target when you hit it is not an ability and unaffected by ability accuracy debuffs. And sometimes an ability has literally no "ability accuracy" because they just always happen. For example, Starlord's attack increases with combo, but no amount of ability accuracy reduction can change that.

    i think mostly where you have said something different to wat i have lies in the wording and understanding.

    when i refered to 2 types of AA and 3 types of AAR i was refering only to the Abilities that have any modifiable accuracy.
    whilst i think we are mostly saying the same thing

    Since we are talking about actual game mechanics, I think there's no such thing as nit picking: we should be as accurate as possible. What I was trying to say is that (at least to the best extent I understand the game) the actual game engine understands that abilities have an ability accuracy and the game engine understands that champions have an ability accuracy. However, the game engine itself doesn't understand a specific "thing" called "offensive ability accuracy." That isn't a thing the game knows, that is a composite thing that is constructed within the game. And because it is a constructed thing, the "rules" regarding offensive and defense ability accuracy are, at least in some significant large part, influenced by what the game designers want them to be. That's not the same thing as saying the game developers can do anything, because there are rules that short of altering the game engine directly they cannot change. For example, they cannot make passive effects honor resistances (all of this is, of course, only to my best understanding and isn't authoritative).

    When trying to figure out how a game works, I think an important thing to try to figure out is when something is happening because the content designers willed it to happen, and when something is happening because the game engine forces it to happen and short of rewriting the game the content designers are forced to follow those rules no matter what they want. Doing this lets you glimpse the man behind the curtain.
  • MaatManMaatMan Posts: 958 ★★★
    with the experience in coding that i have i would speculate that all abilities have a "tag" of sorts in their code.
    so whenever a champ is written with a particular ability that abilitiy is "tagged". maybe tagged as things like "offence" "regen" "immune" etc.... simple basic tags.
    or has conditions that are flagged true or false.
    as to make them intereract with abilities and features that are in the game.
    I would suspect that for this reason abilitiy accuracy is some what reckongnised in the game as offensive or defensive.
    as this would make for simpler coding.
    When the release a champ that has Offensive Ability Accuracy reduction it will automatically affect everything that is tagged as an offensive ability. unless it is tagged as "immune to aar"
    i suspect it is is done this way otherwise whenever a new champ is released it could potentially cause alot more work in coding how it interacts with all existing champs and features.

    ability = autoblock.
    conditions:
    while stunned = true
    parry = true
    offensive = false
    defensive = true
    this to me would be an example of conditons matching medusas autoblock.

    now a champ like elektra has defensive ability accuracy reduction
    ability = defensiveabilityreduction
    check = opponent debuff
    conditions:
    ability defensive = true
    this to me would check if opponent has a debuff then potentially stop an ability from triggering if it is "defensive"

    obviously this is not full proper coding. just a quick little example.
    i would love to read the game code and see how this actually works now.
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