Recoil is Broken

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Recoil should be increasing my attack on specials by 30%, right?
This was consistently the outcome of many sp2 attacks, being increased by right around 3,000 damage between with and without recoil on.
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Comments

  • dkatryldkatryl Posts: 674
    Wouldn't it be some **** if, after costing a large chunk of health per use, the algorithm takes the base damage of the special , and only adds 30% of that, ignoring bonuses for crits/fury/kinetics/etc.

  • E2AE2A Posts: 19
    That’s what I was thinking too but that seems wrong that recoil would be increasing damage so minimally. Shouldn’t it include buffs and everything?
  • dkatryldkatryl Posts: 674
    Oh, no doubt, I agree, considering the punitive health cost, it should be a final multiplier of X% applied at the very end, based on what level of Recoil you have active.

    I'm merely speculating why it could be so low.
  • E2AE2A Posts: 19
    Yeah makes sense
  • Hulk_77Hulk_77 Posts: 678
    edited January 28
    I bet recoil is only modifying base attack. Cap has an extra 5x his base attack on his special 2 there (2.5x from fury, 2.5x from charges).

    So, without Recoil, he has 6x his base attack. With Recoil, he has 6.3x his base attack.

    I don't think that's wrong or broken, rather I think this is a misunderstanding of how these things work together. Although, I'd have to look at how Recoil is worded again to be certain.
  • Mitchell35Mitchell35 Posts: 1,370
    Suicides are outdated in general, unless you benefit from them eg omega red
  • Cranmer00Cranmer00 Posts: 344
    I just bought recoil day before yesterday and It takes 5%-10% of your HP per use... it better be adding more than 2.5k to a 60k attack or I’m gonna be pissed man. Had to rework my masteries to get it.

    I just want the game to do what it tells us it’s doing
  • Hulk_77Hulk_77 Posts: 678
    edited January 29
    Updating from my previous comment after looking at the mastery description. I think I'm correct that it is only modifying base attack but that isn't the correct implementation as the mastery says it increases the damage of the special attack by 30%, not that it increases base attack.84ol10xrputk.jpg
  • Hulk_77Hulk_77 Posts: 678
    Basically the +30% modifier is in the wrong place. Currently it's modifying base attack instead of modifying special damage as it should.

    Wouldn't be shocked if this is also something that is now not working as described as new champions have been added.
  • Clearly an audit is needed to make sure that simple increase/decrease by X% enhancements actually do what they’re supposed to without flimsy excuses that result in nothing being given instead of service recovery effort.
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 1,891
    edited January 29
    Clearly an audit is needed to make sure that simple increase/decrease by X% enhancements actually do what they’re supposed to without flimsy excuses that result in nothing being given instead of service recovery effort.

    If it’s not working to add 30% to attack, and it once was (which it should have been because I don’t recall anyone claiming it malfunctioned this way before), then the question is why it’s now malfunctioning? Put simply, what changed and why?

    Dr. Zola
    Post edited by Kabam Lyra on
  • DrZola wrote: »

    If it’s not working to add 30% to attack, and it once was (which it should have been because I don’t recall anyone claiming it malfunctioned this way before), then the question is why it’s now malfunctioning? Put simply, what changed and why?

    Is there a link to the Dave video? Would be helpful to see what the alleged problem with Courage is.

    Dr. Zola

    It’s supposed to straight up add 30/45/60% special damage and not even consider attack. People probably didn’t notice because it was another scenario of things stacked on each other and we don’t have full knowledge of how things interact still. If I added recoil, it was always with glass cannon, suicides and other changes and never in a vacuum. Same way people didn’t know the Special Boosts didn’t do anything. Too many unknowns that we assumed worked and they didn’t.
  • E2AE2A Posts: 19
    Yeah, at first glance it seems broken but turns out to be yet again, ANOTHER wording error due to outdated game-mechanics. Fixing this would be highly appreciated.


    Thanks
  • Hulk_77Hulk_77 Posts: 678
    Hmmmm. For a synergy with such a high penalty, I'd think it would be better to change how it functions to actually increase all special damage. I don't use it personally, never felt it was worth the penalty.
  • Mike12867Mike12867 Posts: 374
    really? @Kabam Miike @Kabam Lyra Do this as a trade-off, for us not making this go out of hand, why dont you move recoil to the end of the tree so we dont sacrifice health on using specials. Just give us the Double edge n Liq courage before unlocking recoil....

    Out-dated mechanics / miss-wording, definitely you guys have tons of more things under curtains than we know...
  • TimrosTimros Posts: 130
    I had to redo my masteries the other day because of this. The tradeoff just isn't worth it. Like the op, I was using caiw regularly when I noticed how poor the damage boost was compared to life drain ratio. Def needs to be reworked to fit more updated champs.
  • AleorAleor Posts: 694
    I don't use recoil, but does it take 5% of your base HP?
  • saorpssaorps Posts: 20
    Kabam Lyra wrote: »
    Hi,

    To clarify the way Recoil works, it will increase the damage of special attacks based upon the base attack only. It will apply this attack bonus when the special attack hits and to most damaging effects, such as bleed, triggered when the special attack hits.

    Thank you for the feedback about the wording of the description. We've passed it along for consideration.

    the wording says: "increase the damage of special attack of all champions by 30%" this is very very very very different of "increase the damage of basic attacks of all champions by 30%".

    I understand what you say, but the mastery description gives a totally different understanding. And if you think carefully, it makes sense to be an increase of 30% of the special attack, because of the 5% recoil damage is a high trade-off.
    Before simply update the description, please consider adjusting the mastery to its description.

    the question is: which is the next mastery that will not work as written in the description?
  • HulksmasshhHulksmasshh Posts: 666
    edited February 5
    Lefro74 wrote: »
    Come on really. That's such a "bolony" move, I had spend my money on the last core bundle to unlock suicides and now I'm hearing that more masteries are broken. You cant just change the description on every thing that becomes broken. I'm expecting some sort of compensation in equal value for them cores due to all the false advertisement with the masteries.

    The damage bonus on recoil is not broken. It's always worked the same way of increasing the base damage of specials. If you've ever taken the time to look at how damage masteries / boosts / synergies / etc work you'll find they all work this way. There are some odd interactions here and there but the mechanics haven't changed. Cap IW gets a ton of additional bonus damage on his SP2 which is why the effects of recoil are less noticable compared to someone like Corvus, where 3/3 recoil makes a huge difference.
  • borntohulaborntohula Posts: 307
    Pur
    The damage bonus on recoil is not broken. It's always worked the same way of increasing the base damage of specials. If you've ever taken the time to look at how damage masteries / boosts / synergies / etc work you'll find they all work this way. There are some odd interactions here and there but the mechanics haven't changed. Cap IW gets a ton of additional bonus damage on his SP2 which is why the effects of recoil are less noticable compared to someone like Corvus, where 3/3 recoil makes a huge difference.

    If I use a special, damage data pops up. It’s very detailed too. If a mastery increases special damage by X, Y or Z, I expect that number to increase by that factor.

    It doesn’t matter to me whether something ‘always worked a certain way’. It’s not my responsibility as a buyer, to make a study of it.I simply want to (and have a right to) buy what is advertised.

    Now we can go all semantics or legalese on this subject, but we shouldn’t. If something can be worded transparently, it should. If it isn’t, it’s either due to a lack of care or an attempt to mislead customers. I’m hoping the former applies.

    Either way, the issue (and it is an issue) should be addressed promptly and with the interest of the buyers at heart. That would be elegant and beneficial to all, including prospective buyers and, ultimately, the seller.

    However, given that (e.g.) Inequity also suffers from (cough) a serious case of bad phrasing, and has been for well over a year, while continually being pushed as something to aspire to (see champion intro’s for CAP IW, Void and others) customers’ interests seem to be delegated to a backseat. On a leaky raft. During a hurricane.

  • borntohula wrote: »

    However, given that (e.g.) Inequity also suffers from (cough) a serious case of bad phrasing, and has been for well over a year, while continually being pushed as something to aspire to (see champion intro’s for CAP IW, Void and others)

    ...Masacre...Night Thrasher...
  • HulksmasshhHulksmasshh Posts: 666
    borntohula wrote: »
    Pur
    The damage bonus on recoil is not broken. It's always worked the same way of increasing the base damage of specials. If you've ever taken the time to look at how damage masteries / boosts / synergies / etc work you'll find they all work this way. There are some odd interactions here and there but the mechanics haven't changed. Cap IW gets a ton of additional bonus damage on his SP2 which is why the effects of recoil are less noticable compared to someone like Corvus, where 3/3 recoil makes a huge difference.

    If I use a special, damage data pops up. It’s very detailed too. If a mastery increases special damage by X, Y or Z, I expect that number to increase by that factor.

    It doesn’t matter to me whether something ‘always worked a certain way’. It’s not my responsibility as a buyer, to make a study of it.I simply want to (and have a right to) buy what is advertised.

    Now we can go all semantics or legalese on this subject, but we shouldn’t. If something can be worded transparently, it should. If it isn’t, it’s either due to a lack of care or an attempt to mislead customers. I’m hoping the former applies.

    Either way, the issue (and it is an issue) should be addressed promptly and with the interest of the buyers at heart. That would be elegant and beneficial to all, including prospective buyers and, ultimately, the seller.

    However, given that (e.g.) Inequity also suffers from (cough) a serious case of bad phrasing, and has been for well over a year, while continually being pushed as something to aspire to (see champion intro’s for CAP IW, Void and others) customers’ interests seem to be delegated to a backseat. On a leaky raft. During a hurricane.

    If it's not your responsibility to understand how a mechanic in the game works, then you can't blame the game when you find out what you thought in your head was wrong. There are very few 'multiplicative' damage boosters in the game. Most of all damage boosters scale off base attack and add-on from each other from there. Did you think having a green boost + attack boost at the same time multipled the effectiveness of both as well? In this example, if the OP had a 30% attack boost on instead of recoil then the crit damage would be the same. Again, you're only seeing the miniscule difference because Cap IW has a large damage booster already on. If you want to see purely recoil damage in action, compare a 0/3 recoil Corvus with 3/3 recoil (no suicides) and last I checked it works just fine.
  • borntohulaborntohula Posts: 307
    edited February 5
    borntohula wrote: »
    Pur
    The damage bonus on recoil is not broken. It's always worked the same way of increasing the base damage of specials. If you've ever taken the time to look at how damage masteries / boosts / synergies / etc work you'll find they all work this way. There are some odd interactions here and there but the mechanics haven't changed. Cap IW gets a ton of additional bonus damage on his SP2 which is why the effects of recoil are less noticable compared to someone like Corvus, where 3/3 recoil makes a huge difference.

    If I use a special, damage data pops up. It’s very detailed too. If a mastery increases special damage by X, Y or Z, I expect that number to increase by that factor.

    It doesn’t matter to me whether something ‘always worked a certain way’. It’s not my responsibility as a buyer, to make a study of it.I simply want to (and have a right to) buy what is advertised.

    Now we can go all semantics or legalese on this subject, but we shouldn’t. If something can be worded transparently, it should. If it isn’t, it’s either due to a lack of care or an attempt to mislead customers. I’m hoping the former applies.

    Either way, the issue (and it is an issue) should be addressed promptly and with the interest of the buyers at heart. That would be elegant and beneficial to all, including prospective buyers and, ultimately, the seller.

    However, given that (e.g.) Inequity also suffers from (cough) a serious case of bad phrasing, and has been for well over a year, while continually being pushed as something to aspire to (see champion intro’s for CAP IW, Void and others) customers’ interests seem to be delegated to a backseat. On a leaky raft. During a hurricane.

    If it's not your responsibility to understand how a mechanic in the game works, then you can't blame the game when you find out what you thought in your head was wrong. There are very few 'multiplicative' damage boosters in the game. Most of all damage boosters scale off base attack and add-on from each other from there. Did you think having a green boost + attack boost at the same time multipled the effectiveness of both as well? In this example, if the OP had a 30% attack boost on instead of recoil then the crit damage would be the same. Again, you're only seeing the miniscule difference because Cap IW has a large damage booster already on. If you want to see purely recoil damage in action, compare a 0/3 recoil Corvus with 3/3 recoil (no suicides) and last I checked it works just fine.

    Say, I’m gonna sell you a car for a million. I’ll tell you it can go at least 1593 km/h. I’ll even put that up in writing. You buy it. It runs. You push it as far as you can. Wide open road. Nice weather. A slight breeze. Tumbleweed your only companion. You push and push. Then you push some more. Your knuckles turn white with the effort. Your right feet feels as if it’s cutting the asphalt.

    You’re doing 50 - if that.

    You get a bit cranky.

    I’ll inform you that due to the world being the ever evolving thing it is, the car now only can do 50. Because at the time of writing, in a parallel universe, the world wasn’t round but vertical, and the numbers accurately represent the maximum speed. If the car did a free fall from 10000 meters. Or so.

    I might change the wording though. Maybe. Sometime. In a parallel universe.

    You go home happy with your purchase. Tell your partner all about the great deal you got.

    Really?


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