Whale's perspective on 6-star daily card with 2019 6-star pool

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Comments

  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,677 Guardian
    Stewman wrote: »
    I got it for the T5b shards more than anything. Shouldn't have tho.

    Agreed. I bought it for the t5 frags. The 6* shards and the gold we're just bonus materials to me. They've been valuing a full t5b at about $500 for some time now. So to get 18k shards for 1/5 of that price is in some sense a deal. I'm saying that full well knowing that these items are always devaluing. What looks like a great deal today can look like a rip off one year from now, and most likely will.

    To me, it always seems odd that deals are valued relative to other Kabam deals or even what other players think something is worth. What I consider the currency to value every other deal against is time, my time in particular. For example, you get 2500 6* shards ( I think) for that card deal total. I earn that much 6* shards in about three weeks, plus or minus on average (you get 2500 every month with uncollected, and you get more duping 5* champs). So for me the question is whether the cash cost is worth "skipping ahead" about three weeks in terms of 6* earning. The T5B would be, for me, about 6-7 weeks of my earning average. So in broad terms, the offer very roughly puts me about a month or so ahead of where I would be if I didn't buy it. At the moment, I don't think it is worth it to spend that much money to get only that much farther ahead.

    Now, if I wasn't uncollected, if I wasn't an arena grinder, if that card represented a six months jump forward instead of one month, then it might be worth it to me, even if my roster was identical, my resource needs were identical, and if all other cash offer opportunities were unchanged. I'd value the resources more if they took longer for me to get, irrespective of how much Kabam charged for them. Or if I was really impatient, I might consider buying the card to skip forward almost any amount of time because I valued my playing time vastly more.

    As to devaluing, the way I look at rewards is that all rewards tend to be worth less over time, so their entire lifetime value is roughly an area under a curve. Suppose you had only one 5* champ. Buying another 5* champ would in theory have a huge relative value. You'd have two instead of one. But a year down the road you might have twelve 5* champs, and that purchase is now the difference between eleven and twelve. It is worth less then than now just because of dilution - and this has nothing to do with game changes that might make them easier to get. Eventually, you'll have every 5* champ and that purchase is essentially worth a few signature stones. If you buy that 5* champ early on, its total worth to you is pretty big overall, but if you buy that 5* champ when your roster is already big its total lifetime worth to you is much smaller. That also factors into what something is worth to me, independent of game changes over time.
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  • SnizzbarSnizzbar Member Posts: 2,200 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    KingCrooks wrote: »
    Like $100 tho? Really? I'll be honest I've got at least a grand in my account. Stupid, I know. Like it's not even real.. were literally spending $100 on CODE....

    Saying you're spending to get code is like telling someone who buys music CDs or iTunes songs that they are ridiculously spending money to move air around.

    But that wasn't what was said. KingCrooks said spending "on CODE" not spending "to get CODE", in much the same way that you would spend $100 on taxi fares.
    I think sometimes your Captain Correcty trigger can be pulled a little early...
  • spaceoctopusspaceoctopus Member Posts: 1,111 ★★★
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Stewman wrote: »
    I got it for the T5b shards more than anything. Shouldn't have tho.

    Agreed. I bought it for the t5 frags. The 6* shards and the gold we're just bonus materials to me. They've been valuing a full t5b at about $500 for some time now. So to get 18k shards for 1/5 of that price is in some sense a deal. I'm saying that full well knowing that these items are always devaluing. What looks like a great deal today can look like a rip off one year from now, and most likely will.

    To me, it always seems odd that deals are valued relative to other Kabam deals or even what other players think something is worth. What I consider the currency to value every other deal against is time, my time in particular. For example, you get 2500 6* shards ( I think) for that card deal total. I earn that much 6* shards in about three weeks, plus or minus on average (you get 2500 every month with uncollected, and you get more duping 5* champs). So for me the question is whether the cash cost is worth "skipping ahead" about three weeks in terms of 6* earning. The T5B would be, for me, about 6-7 weeks of my earning average. So in broad terms, the offer very roughly puts me about a month or so ahead of where I would be if I didn't buy it. At the moment, I don't think it is worth it to spend that much money to get only that much farther ahead.

    Now, if I wasn't uncollected, if I wasn't an arena grinder, if that card represented a six months jump forward instead of one month, then it might be worth it to me, even if my roster was identical, my resource needs were identical, and if all other cash offer opportunities were unchanged. I'd value the resources more if they took longer for me to get, irrespective of how much Kabam charged for them. Or if I was really impatient, I might consider buying the card to skip forward almost any amount of time because I valued my playing time vastly more.

    As to devaluing, the way I look at rewards is that all rewards tend to be worth less over time, so their entire lifetime value is roughly an area under a curve. Suppose you had only one 5* champ. Buying another 5* champ would in theory have a huge relative value. You'd have two instead of one. But a year down the road you might have twelve 5* champs, and that purchase is now the difference between eleven and twelve. It is worth less then than now just because of dilution - and this has nothing to do with game changes that might make them easier to get. Eventually, you'll have every 5* champ and that purchase is essentially worth a few signature stones. If you buy that 5* champ early on, its total worth to you is pretty big overall, but if you buy that 5* champ when your roster is already big its total lifetime worth to you is much smaller. That also factors into what something is worth to me, independent of game changes over time.

    That's very well thought out and I appreciate the reasoning there. For me 18k t5 frags is 2 months worth of time in the game. It also gives me the ability to r2 my 6* CAIW, which will be of tremendous help in my fully exploring variant, in the end that made it worth it to me. As for buying deals for 5 or 6* shards alone, I never do. I only buy deals for rank up materials.
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Member Posts: 3,474 ★★★★★
    edited February 2019
    zeezee57 wrote: »
    Bfyffe28 wrote: »
    I’ve given up spending as well. I’m in the worst stretch I’ve ever had in this game. I haven’t pulled anything since September that was worth rank 4 except for maybe a Venom dupe or Heimdall who I don’t really like. In that time I’ve got 6 star Karnak and DD. I opened 6 featured for Ghost and Omega and pulled nothing. I’m opening another 6 star after EQ next month plus another 3 featured and if I strike out on those I think it’s time to hang them up. 6 months between pulls is just not worth the time and especially money anymore. Rng is the worst thing about this game. You can outwork everyone in your alliance and run the most difficult paths and it doesn’t matter at all. They can pull Corvus while you get Antman. This game can be brutal and you can be left behind all because of luck.

    This is exactly why they'll not get money from me. I run the same content as ally mates while they have stacked rosters that they can't ever get the resources to rank them all while I have a mountain of trash with a handful of useful champs sitting on it. Its too discouraging to add a dollar amount to.

    I’ve changed my perspective on the game and it’s really made things a lot better for me. I, too, haven’t pulled anything since Heimdall was released so roughly 6 months give or take. The past month or two I’ve been telling everyone I’ll quit after my next bad pull. Well surely enough, I’ve pulled even more trash. In the past 2 months I’ve gotten She Hulk (before beta announcement), Groot, AV from featured, Rhino, and VP. AV and VP are arguably useable but they just have no place on my roster. Anything they do, other champs do way better. I finally just decided to treat this game like the toilet game it is. I basically only play it for a few minutes at a time when I have nothing else to do (like on the toilet; after all it is a toilet game). I’m currently in the middle of saving all my shards for a big open with the next featured 5* crystal (hoping for Havok but Sinister would be cool too). If I don’t pull anything then, I might consider giving up the game for good.

    But focusing on this game, especially if it’s toxic and causes negative feelings isn’t worth playing. I used to spend a lot of time focused on the game and for what? Bad RNG pulls? I try to just switch up the roster I do have to keep things fresh because as they say RNG is supposed to turn around eventually. I play other games worthy of my time and not so heavily focused on RNG. Also, I’ve been spending more time outside and with family and I’m all the better for it.
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  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,677 Guardian
    Snizzbar wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    KingCrooks wrote: »
    Like $100 tho? Really? I'll be honest I've got at least a grand in my account. Stupid, I know. Like it's not even real.. were literally spending $100 on CODE....

    Saying you're spending to get code is like telling someone who buys music CDs or iTunes songs that they are ridiculously spending money to move air around.

    But that wasn't what was said. KingCrooks said spending "on CODE" not spending "to get CODE", in much the same way that you would spend $100 on taxi fares.
    I think sometimes your Captain Correcty trigger can be pulled a little early...

    I don't even see the difference, but if you do feel free to self-edit my post to state "spending on code is like telling someone who spends on music..." It doesn't change the intent of the post.
  • SnizzbarSnizzbar Member Posts: 2,200 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Snizzbar wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    KingCrooks wrote: »
    Like $100 tho? Really? I'll be honest I've got at least a grand in my account. Stupid, I know. Like it's not even real.. were literally spending $100 on CODE....

    Saying you're spending to get code is like telling someone who buys music CDs or iTunes songs that they are ridiculously spending money to move air around.

    But that wasn't what was said. KingCrooks said spending "on CODE" not spending "to get CODE", in much the same way that you would spend $100 on taxi fares.
    I think sometimes your Captain Correcty trigger can be pulled a little early...

    I don't even see the difference, but if you do feel free to self-edit my post to state "spending on code is like telling someone who spends on music..." It doesn't change the intent of the post.

    If you can't see the difference then maybe you shouldn't be pompously correcting anyone. Either that, or learn to read posts better.
  • StewmanStewman Member Posts: 735 ★★★
    Stewman wrote: »
    I got it for the T5b shards more than anything. Shouldn't have tho.

    Agreed. I bought it for the t5 frags. The 6* shards and the gold we're just bonus materials to me. They've been valuing a full t5b at about $500 for some time now. So to get 18k shards for 1/5 of that price is in some sense a deal. I'm saying that full well knowing that these items are always devaluing. What looks like a great deal today can look like a rip off one year from now, and most likely will.

    Exactly.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,677 Guardian
    Snizzbar wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Snizzbar wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    KingCrooks wrote: »
    Like $100 tho? Really? I'll be honest I've got at least a grand in my account. Stupid, I know. Like it's not even real.. were literally spending $100 on CODE....

    Saying you're spending to get code is like telling someone who buys music CDs or iTunes songs that they are ridiculously spending money to move air around.

    But that wasn't what was said. KingCrooks said spending "on CODE" not spending "to get CODE", in much the same way that you would spend $100 on taxi fares.
    I think sometimes your Captain Correcty trigger can be pulled a little early...

    I don't even see the difference, but if you do feel free to self-edit my post to state "spending on code is like telling someone who spends on music..." It doesn't change the intent of the post.

    If you can't see the difference then maybe you shouldn't be pompously correcting anyone. Either that, or learn to read posts better.

    If you are attempting to win the weirdly ironic post of the year award, I don't usually give that out until December.
  • SnizzbarSnizzbar Member Posts: 2,200 ★★★★★
    edited February 2019
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Snizzbar wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Snizzbar wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    KingCrooks wrote: »
    Like $100 tho? Really? I'll be honest I've got at least a grand in my account. Stupid, I know. Like it's not even real.. were literally spending $100 on CODE....

    Saying you're spending to get code is like telling someone who buys music CDs or iTunes songs that they are ridiculously spending money to move air around.

    But that wasn't what was said. KingCrooks said spending "on CODE" not spending "to get CODE", in much the same way that you would spend $100 on taxi fares.
    I think sometimes your Captain Correcty trigger can be pulled a little early...

    I don't even see the difference, but if you do feel free to self-edit my post to state "spending on code is like telling someone who spends on music..." It doesn't change the intent of the post.

    If you can't see the difference then maybe you shouldn't be pompously correcting anyone. Either that, or learn to read posts better.

    If you are attempting to win the weirdly ironic post of the year award, I don't usually give that out until December.

    I wouldn't accept it anyway.
    At the ceremony you'd probably waffle on for an hour before I even got my hands on it.
  • StewmanStewman Member Posts: 735 ★★★
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    zeezee57 wrote: »
    Bfyffe28 wrote: »
    I’ve given up spending as well. I’m in the worst stretch I’ve ever had in this game. I haven’t pulled anything since September that was worth rank 4 except for maybe a Venom dupe or Heimdall who I don’t really like. In that time I’ve got 6 star Karnak and DD. I opened 6 featured for Ghost and Omega and pulled nothing. I’m opening another 6 star after EQ next month plus another 3 featured and if I strike out on those I think it’s time to hang them up. 6 months between pulls is just not worth the time and especially money anymore. Rng is the worst thing about this game. You can outwork everyone in your alliance and run the most difficult paths and it doesn’t matter at all. They can pull Corvus while you get Antman. This game can be brutal and you can be left behind all because of luck.

    This is exactly why they'll not get money from me. I run the same content as ally mates while they have stacked rosters that they can't ever get the resources to rank them all while I have a mountain of trash with a handful of useful champs sitting on it. Its too discouraging to add a dollar amount to.

    I’ve changed my perspective on the game and it’s really made things a lot better for me. I, too, haven’t pulled anything since Heimdall was released so roughly 6 months give or take. The past month or two I’ve been telling everyone I’ll quit after my next bad pull. Well surely enough, I’ve pulled even more trash. In the past 2 months I’ve gotten She Hulk (before beta announcement), Groot, AV from featured, Rhino, and VP. AV and VP are arguably useable but they just have no place on my roster. Anything they do, other champs do way better. I finally just decided to treat this game like the toilet game it is. I basically only play it for a few minutes at a time when I have nothing else to do (like on the toilet; after all it is a toilet game). I’m currently in the middle of saving all my shards for a big open with the next featured 5* crystal (hoping for Havok but Sinister would be cool too). If I don’t pull anything then, I might consider giving up the game for good.

    But focusing on this game, especially if it’s toxic and causes negative feelings isn’t worth playing. I used to spend a lot of time focused on the game and for what? Bad RNG pulls? I try to just switch up the roster I do have to keep things fresh because as they say RNG is supposed to turn around eventually. I play other games worthy of my time and not so heavily focused on RNG. Also, I’ve been spending more time outside and with family and I’m all the better for it.

    I was doing the exact same thing thru December.
    I saved up around 80k 5* shards and pulled aegon the first day the current feature was available
    Had a skill gem and lots of stones.
    It, for now, has renewed my interest in the game. Even tho Aegon isn't super useful in EQ, I find it fun to see how high I can get his charges in AQ, and might test using him on attack before season starts (although if I don't get path 1 I don't think I will be able to get his charges high enough to be useful for the bosses.)

    I pulled Cap IW and Wasp in Nov
    and pulled Ghost in December
    I pulled Sin yesterday I have never ever gotten a champ like this
    It's usually months before I get anyone newish.
    he will be R4 asap.
    I have had a crazy good string of luck.
    But I am saving again, I would like to dupe Sin, or pull Thing or who knows who else we have in store in the next couple months.

  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,677 Guardian
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    But focusing on this game, especially if it’s toxic and causes negative feelings isn’t worth playing. I used to spend a lot of time focused on the game and for what? Bad RNG pulls? I try to just switch up the roster I do have to keep things fresh because as they say RNG is supposed to turn around eventually. I play other games worthy of my time and not so heavily focused on RNG. Also, I’ve been spending more time outside and with family and I’m all the better for it.

    I have often wondered how much better the entire video games industry would be if everyone only played games they actually enjoyed playing, and no one tried to make excuses for playing games they claimed to not enjoy or even actively hate. If we all focused on only the games we thought were worth our time, games not worth anyone's time wouldn't exist, and games not worth most people's time would be an extreme minority.

    I honestly wish everyone unhappy with MCOC would go find some other game to play. Not because I don't want them here, but because there might be some game out there that delivers exactly what those people want, and it is currently getting less support than it should. I personally love playing MCOC, but for all we know there's a game out there that would stomp it to death if only everyone who would enjoy playing it actually found it and played it.

  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Member Posts: 3,474 ★★★★★
    S
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    But focusing on this game, especially if it’s toxic and causes negative feelings isn’t worth playing. I used to spend a lot of time focused on the game and for what? Bad RNG pulls? I try to just switch up the roster I do have to keep things fresh because as they say RNG is supposed to turn around eventually. I play other games worthy of my time and not so heavily focused on RNG. Also, I’ve been spending more time outside and with family and I’m all the better for it.

    I have often wondered how much better the entire video games industry would be if everyone only played games they actually enjoyed playing, and no one tried to make excuses for playing games they claimed to not enjoy or even actively hate. If we all focused on only the games we thought were worth our time, games not worth anyone's time wouldn't exist, and games not worth most people's time would be an extreme minority.

    I honestly wish everyone unhappy with MCOC would go find some other game to play. Not because I don't want them here, but because there might be some game out there that delivers exactly what those people want, and it is currently getting less support than it should. I personally love playing MCOC, but for all we know there's a game out there that would stomp it to death if only everyone who would enjoy playing it actually found it and played it.

    Well that’s the thing. There are many players that only play solely because of their alliances/friends they met in game. Kabam knows that which is why all the lucrative rewards come from alliance modes (AQ and AW with extra rewards coming from SA, 3 day events, and gifting events. I feel the game itself (the fighting) is very enjoyable for the most part. I just kept putting too much emphasis on RNG which made me hate the game. Honestly RNG still annoys me to no end but I’m letting it affect me less. Trying to focus on the positive aspects of the game.
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Member Posts: 3,474 ★★★★★
    Stewman wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    zeezee57 wrote: »
    Bfyffe28 wrote: »
    I’ve given up spending as well. I’m in the worst stretch I’ve ever had in this game. I haven’t pulled anything since September that was worth rank 4 except for maybe a Venom dupe or Heimdall who I don’t really like. In that time I’ve got 6 star Karnak and DD. I opened 6 featured for Ghost and Omega and pulled nothing. I’m opening another 6 star after EQ next month plus another 3 featured and if I strike out on those I think it’s time to hang them up. 6 months between pulls is just not worth the time and especially money anymore. Rng is the worst thing about this game. You can outwork everyone in your alliance and run the most difficult paths and it doesn’t matter at all. They can pull Corvus while you get Antman. This game can be brutal and you can be left behind all because of luck.

    This is exactly why they'll not get money from me. I run the same content as ally mates while they have stacked rosters that they can't ever get the resources to rank them all while I have a mountain of trash with a handful of useful champs sitting on it. Its too discouraging to add a dollar amount to.

    I’ve changed my perspective on the game and it’s really made things a lot better for me. I, too, haven’t pulled anything since Heimdall was released so roughly 6 months give or take. The past month or two I’ve been telling everyone I’ll quit after my next bad pull. Well surely enough, I’ve pulled even more trash. In the past 2 months I’ve gotten She Hulk (before beta announcement), Groot, AV from featured, Rhino, and VP. AV and VP are arguably useable but they just have no place on my roster. Anything they do, other champs do way better. I finally just decided to treat this game like the toilet game it is. I basically only play it for a few minutes at a time when I have nothing else to do (like on the toilet; after all it is a toilet game). I’m currently in the middle of saving all my shards for a big open with the next featured 5* crystal (hoping for Havok but Sinister would be cool too). If I don’t pull anything then, I might consider giving up the game for good.

    But focusing on this game, especially if it’s toxic and causes negative feelings isn’t worth playing. I used to spend a lot of time focused on the game and for what? Bad RNG pulls? I try to just switch up the roster I do have to keep things fresh because as they say RNG is supposed to turn around eventually. I play other games worthy of my time and not so heavily focused on RNG. Also, I’ve been spending more time outside and with family and I’m all the better for it.

    I was doing the exact same thing thru December.
    I saved up around 80k 5* shards and pulled aegon the first day the current feature was available
    Had a skill gem and lots of stones.
    It, for now, has renewed my interest in the game. Even tho Aegon isn't super useful in EQ, I find it fun to see how high I can get his charges in AQ, and might test using him on attack before season starts (although if I don't get path 1 I don't think I will be able to get his charges high enough to be useful for the bosses.)

    I pulled Cap IW and Wasp in Nov
    and pulled Ghost in December
    I pulled Sin yesterday I have never ever gotten a champ like this
    It's usually months before I get anyone newish.
    he will be R4 asap.
    I have had a crazy good string of luck.
    But I am saving again, I would like to dupe Sin, or pull Thing or who knows who else we have in store in the next couple months.

    That’s some crazy good luck. Hopefully my luck turns around soon. I feel I’ve more than paid my dues. Congrats on the new champs.
  • Suros_moonSuros_moon Member Posts: 476 ★★★
    ChuckRyan wrote: »
    In September, I would have bought today's deal in a heartbeat. Anything that would help me secure a 6* Domino, Corvus, IMIW. September was significant for all of us because the statistical chance to obtain a premium champion was the best we've ever seen in the game.

    In September, summoners had a 70% chance to obtain a champion that was good or better and 47% chance for demigod champs or better. Champions that could change the trajectory of a summoner's account. Champions that would open up new end-game content or push them into a new alliance war tier. Everyone was excited--for good reason.

    Five months later, we see how to ruin a good thing. With additions of Magneto (OG), Moon Knight, Hulkbuster and other average champions in past months, Kabam has watered down the chance to obtain a premium 6* champion, and yet prices are still at a premium rate.

    I don't see the value in purchasing a 6* offer in 2019. Frankly, I don't need the disappointment of spending real money to obtain a 6* Hulkbuster for my roster. It's a pass for me.

    Kabam will likely say there is "no such thing as a premium champion" or "we can't quantify who the community would want to see added to the pool" but the answer that they ignorw is obvious... ask the community who they would want to see in premium crystals with premium price points.

    But this is a double edged sword. At the moment 6 stars are available enough to make pay to win VERY fiscally hard to do. You could, in theory, burn FGMC's until you dupe your way there but, given the pool, it makes no sense to do so. With any sort of premium offer there is a hard balance so that your gake doesnt blatantly become unfair to those who wont shell out. I cant think of a way where 6 stars are given higher drop rates of the good characters without destroying the already fragile ecosystem. Truth be told, if we disregarded the communiyies feelings and sought ONLY balance, then you coukd either water the 6 stars down a WHOLE lot to discourage them or beef them to the point that youre almost handed good pulls.

    Neither extreme is ideal but i feel the balance is about as good as it can be right now. I also understand that the odds themselves arent the point of this post. The price is. The price point, as i look at it, is really just a thinly veiled t5 basic offer. What you arent directly getting in t5 basic shards you are getting transformed into 6 star shards. Almost no one who needs the 6 star shards would buy this deal. They would just wait for the next uncollected quest. Until T5's are more readily available themselves (presumably in act 6) these are the deals were locked into.
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  • StarlordisWickedStarlordisWicked Member Posts: 295
    Agreed. I’ve rolled 41 five star crystals. First 3 were Elektra, Gwenpool and Ultron. Made me excited to grind for more - next 6 were garbage like vulture, Netflix dd, etc. then rolled a star lord, then duped him 2 rolls later. Then I had 10 straight garbage tier champs (including dupes of rhino and IP). Then, I rolled Hyperion, winter soldier, quake, and archangel in 4 straight roles. Since then 5 straight garbage champs including hulk buster twice.

    This is fun for 4 star champs because I open 2 per week. For five star champs it is frustrating because I only open one every 3 weeks. But for 6 star champs it means I would never spend a single dime - because I could save for 3 years, open 5 six star crystals and have nothing but arena fodder to show for it. RNG keeps me from spending
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