The difference between a 2mm squad and a 20mm squad will be their tier. There won’t be a 2mm squad in tier 1 or 2. They could win every match for the season and not earn as many points as a squad that started at the top of tier 1 and lost very war but 100% the map. The multiplier is the key and what provides balance.
In regards to the inclusion of PI, that was a topic when new system started 2 weeks before season 8, after the week long break. I ran a spreadsheet and you could see where matches were previously using AW rating almost exclusively and then it changed.
However, I Hellenes to look at it today and the next few fights after my sheet were against much lower pi squads but similar rating. It seemed relevant but then it isn’t anymore. The red fights were old way (couldn’t use two of the pis cause the squad swapped) the green were the new ones. You can see how tight AW ratio used to be and pi didn’t seem to matter then it tightened up greatly.
I didn’t take a screen shot of today’s work but next 3 fights were similar to those in red, AW centric not PI
yes you are right but the point I was making is as simple as if the 2mil squad keeps winning it keeps climbing and eventually reaches higher tiers. if it is only ever fighting other 2mill allies there is nothing to cap its level and therefore you would end up with 2 mill allies in top tiers.
All I know is we are Plat 2 and have had 2 master matches and 2 plat 1 matches for our last 4 wars. Have yet to get a plat 3 match lol. We've had even +/- and the +70/-30. It would be nice to occasionally be on the other side and get +30/-70 but whatever. I'm happy with even matches and don't mind the occasional wrong end of a mismatch but it's strange that we never get the good side of a mismatch.
now you have a system which is essentially bracketed.
0-3 mill allies all fight each other 3-7 mill allies all fight each other 7-11 mill allies all fight each other 11-15 mill allies all fight each other 16-20 mill allies all fight each other 20-25 mill allies all fight each other
so in time this will cause all tiers to have mixtures of all different strength allies that will never fight each other. will cause t3 to have the best allies from each of those brackets. this is not something that would happen within a season but something that would happen over a course of time.
yes you are right but the point I was making is as simple as if the 2mil squad keeps winning it keeps climbing and eventually reaches higher tiers. if it is only ever fighting other 2mill allies there is nothing to cap its level and therefore you would end up with 2 mill allies in top tiers.
If Pi was solely used for this metric, than this would possibly happen. But AW was designed with tiers and different multipliers. A 2mm squad could rise up in ranks for sure, but eventually, since AW counts more than Pi, they will face tougher opponents. Gonna guess that the highest 2mm squad is probably around tier 14ish. They’d need to win for a couple seasons before they could knock on the door of expert maps. And obviously, the rosters that make up a 2mm squad wouldn’t be able to fare well against a 10 or 20mm squad.
Bottom line, it’ll never happen, because they designed the system around such events. Lower tiered wins are greatly discounted.
All I know is we are Plat 2 and have had 2 master matches and 2 plat 1 matches for our last 4 wars. Have yet to get a plat 3 match lol. We've had even +/- and the +70/-30. It would be nice to occasionally be on the other side and get +30/-70 but whatever. I'm happy with even matches and don't mind the occasional wrong end of a mismatch but it's strange that we never get the good side of a mismatch.
ours have all been close WR and close in prestige. +61, +63, +75, +72, +54 +52, +50, this one is +54/-52
and @GroundedWisdom I was not getting defensive, I don't know why you even thought that. I just can't be bothered discussing with you in circles and cirlces and circles. it becomes pointless as the same things just get said over and over to no avail. I commented again once I saw someone else had something else to add.
yes you are right but the point I was making is as simple as if the 2mil squad keeps winning it keeps climbing and eventually reaches higher tiers. if it is only ever fighting other 2mill allies there is nothing to cap its level and therefore you would end up with 2 mill allies in top tiers.
If Pi was solely used for this metric, than this would possibly happen. But AW was designed with tiers and different multipliers. A 2mm squad could rise up in ranks for sure, but eventually, since AW counts more than Pi, they will face tougher opponents. Gonna guess that the highest 2mm squad is probably around tier 14ish. They’d need to win for a couple seasons before they could knock on the door of expert maps. And obviously, the rosters that make up a 2mm squad wouldn’t be able to fare well against a 10 or 20mm squad.
Bottom line, it’ll never happen, because they designed the system around such events. Lower tiered wins are greatly discounted.
but they are changing the system that's the point. Prestige of alliance is counting more than ever. so as the criteria to matchmaking is changing this is changing the face of it. I am seeing alliance prestige playing more and more of a factor. and WR playing a smaller part of the equation. hens my 0 WR v 1300WR matchup
Well, I don't think it should be anything when you start out with 0. If there's nothing available that close, it'll have to use something. As for the results, the only one that seems off is the 2.5, and the rest are within reason. It's also not probable they will go far. The Leaderboard is not an automatic reflection of Rating. There's nothing that says it has to go in order from greatest to least.
Well, I don't think it should be anything when you start out with 0. If there's nothing available that close, it'll have to use something. As for the results, the only one that seems off is the 2.5, and the rest are within reason. It's also not probable they will go far. The Leaderboard is not an automatic reflection of Rating. There's nothing that says it has to go in order from greatest to least.
so the closet ally to 0 looking was 1300? nothing closer?
How do you see gold 2 leaderboard? Or you just are choosing a random squad that you know.
If random, do they have 30 members? You can have squads disband midseason and their points don’t disappear. You could have a 4 digit pi but still get rewards.
Well, I don't think it should be anything when you start out with 0. If there's nothing available that close, it'll have to use something. As for the results, the only one that seems off is the 2.5, and the rest are within reason. It's also not probable they will go far. The Leaderboard is not an automatic reflection of Rating. There's nothing that says it has to go in order from greatest to least.
so the closet ally to 0 looking was 1300? nothing closer?
IF alliancs continue to be based off allince prestige and war rating. it is not just one small alliance that will climb but many.
the alliance will keep fighting only other similar prestige and WR allies, they will continue climbing in bubbles, 2 mil never fighting 10mil, etc. then we will begin to see higher tier allies that are low rating, this is a problem at its creation it is something that in time will change the face of wars.
people are saying now that 2 mil allys are not in t3 cus they cant beat 20 mil allies. great. but if they only ever have to fight other 2 mil allies WR will increase on a lot of these 2 mil allies. in time they will be there also.
Well, I don't think it should be anything when you start out with 0. If there's nothing available that close, it'll have to use something. As for the results, the only one that seems off is the 2.5, and the rest are within reason. It's also not probable they will go far. The Leaderboard is not an automatic reflection of Rating. There's nothing that says it has to go in order from greatest to least.
so the closet ally to 0 looking was 1300? nothing closer?
Yes, that is a possibility.
and it just so happened that that 1300 WR ally only had 7 members just like our 5 and only had 1 mil rating just like our 900k? really? you cant tell me that was random. its pretty clear that matchup was found based of number of members and prestige.
esp given that as an alliance of 5 all our wars have been against other alliances with only 4-9 members.
Nope. 2mm rated squad won’t ever climb high enough. Multiplier in tier 1 is 8 times your score. Tier 5 it’s 4. Squad LOSING in tier one will achieve 50+% mote points than the winner in tier 5.
Well, I don't think it should be anything when you start out with 0. If there's nothing available that close, it'll have to use something. As for the results, the only one that seems off is the 2.5, and the rest are within reason. It's also not probable they will go far. The Leaderboard is not an automatic reflection of Rating. There's nothing that says it has to go in order from greatest to least.
so the closet ally to 0 looking was 1300? nothing closer?
Yes, that is a possibility.
and it just so happened that that 1300 WR ally only had 7 members just like our 5 and only had 1 mil rating just like our 900k? really? you cant tell me that was random. its pretty clear that matchup was found based of number of members and prestige.
esp given that as an alliance of 5 all our wars have been against other alliances with only 4-9 members.
I'm not arguing agaisnt having Prestige as a factor. I told you, I'm the one who suggested it on here. A few times. I also suggested it be combined with War Rating which solves a great deal of the concerns you're bringing up. What I said was, when you're starting with 0 Rating, that's nothing to go on. It could have been Prestige. Could have also been that no other Matches were free because the system Matched them all based on the criteria. It's Seasons. People are Matching. Lol.
How do you see gold 2 leaderboard? Or you just are choosing a random squad that you know.
If random, do they have 30 members? You can have squads disband midseason and their points don’t disappear. You could have a 4 digit pi but still get rewards.
you can look at atleast portions of different leaderboards from the leaderboard screen. and I cant remember members or wateva the alliances I chose were just random selections. should have paid more attention
Nope. 2mm rated squad won’t ever climb high enough. Multiplier in tier 1 is 8 times your score. Tier 5 it’s 4. Squad LOSING in tier one will achieve 50+% mote points than the winner in tier 5.
yes I get that. but the point I am making is that in time 2mil allies will be able to climb to much higher tiers.
in time if 2 mil alliance fight 2 mil alliances only they will climb tiers. it will be like a bubble.
They will climb tiers and then fight 3mm or 5mm squads. At some point, they simply won’t be able to match against the defenses placed before them. You just can’t have a deep enough roster with an act rating of 70k.
With such a low multiplier, without winning they will drop not rise. There will be no “bubble”. Besides which, any squad that remains together will drift higher in pi. It’s how the game works. The example of a 2mm squad advancing works, if you place (formerly) before the 2mm.
Previously it was war tier that based alliances, so alliances wer capped as the eventually fought stronger alliers in their own tier. also made it harder for some stonger newly formed allies to climb. matchups looked kinda like this.
now you have alliance fighting in bubbles. based on both WR and prestige/alliance rating. which right now look like this
but as time goes on the smaller allies fighting only each other will begin to also grow their war ratings and it will become like this with more wider range of allies filling the tiers
and then as more time passes this
this is all possible as weak alliances will only ever fight weak alliances and strong ones will only ever fight strong ones.
2m ally,s are NOT only fighting 2m ally's. It’s a combo of War Rating AND some type of general alliance strength (probably not ally rating, but more like an AQ style prestige of some sort to reflect upper heroes of people, although unknown exactly what is used).
And there's probably a good reason why they dont' publish the exact formula for determining matchups (besides for not wanting to match same 2 teams multiple times even though they might always be right next to each other in calculations... it's proprietary internal code to the game.
Same reason why Kabam does not publish the exact code for determining when you would trigger a death match in arena. Everyone can guess, but not know exactly.
How do squads that gain rewards for wins as well as season rewards not grow? They won’t remain 2mm. They’ll become 3mm than 4mm etc etc
And yes, their AW rating will grow but you realize there has always been an AW inflation right? Season 1, top rating was 3k. Now, that’s the bottom of tier 1. Each season, the overall average rating drifts higher. Thus a 1,200 rating now won’t be worth the same in a couple seasons.
2m ally,s are NOT only fighting 2m ally's. It’s a combo of War Rating AND some type of general alliance strength (probably not ally rating, but more like an AQ style prestige of some sort to reflect upper heroes of people, although unknown exactly what is used).
And there's probably a good reason why they dont' publish the exact formula for determining matchups (besides for not wanting to match same 2 teams multiple times even though they might always be right next to each other in calculations... it's proprietary internal code to the game.
Same reason why Kabam does not publish the exact code for determining when you would trigger a death match in arena. Everyone can guess, but not know exactly.
I think you are right it is not alliance rating but another metric of strength. but prestige or rating both have same effect.
its the bubble effect. alliance fighting in bubbles of similar strength. in time it will change.
before you had this. all alliances in same tier fighting same tier. Now you have this alliance fighting within the similar tiers but only similar opponents meaning more potential to grow the WR in time it will expand to look like this and then this
where bubbles of allies of all strengths populate all war tiers as they only ever fight similar opponents within the same bubbles. they win and lose and climb up and down but never face opponents either side.
How do squads that gain rewards for wins as well as season rewards not grow? They won’t remain 2mm. They’ll become 3mm than 4mm etc etc
And yes, their AW rating will grow but you realize there has always been an AW inflation right? Season 1, top rating was 3k. Now, that’s the bottom of tier 1. Each season, the overall average rating drifts higher. Thus a 1,200 rating now won’t be worth the same in a couple seasons.
they do grow, but there are always new allies always new players, some allies keep churning over new members keeping their ratings low as they only take low rating members, depends wat kinda ally u wanna run, some grow at faster rates, some grow at slower rates. my ally is 17mil. I could turn it into a 4 mil ally in an instant. by replacing my members. I could get low level but highly skilled players. like top tier players with alt accounts that basically just do war so barely grow.
lets say a bunch of peeps buy an old shell alliance with a WR of 2400. they will start with a t3 lets say 3mill ally. with 4000 prestige.
will they lose every matchup until they drop to say like 1200 WR where say other strong 3mil allies are? will they win 50/50 cus some matches favour the war rating and give them impossible matches based on WR? while others give them easier matches based on prestige?
cus really they should be plummeting with all losses until they meet a point where more 3 mil allies are. but I suspect that they will get matches more inclined to fit their prestige and alliance rating rather than WR allowing them to stay higher for longer.
Those who say a 6m alliance rating cannot climb to tier 1 is misguided. I could create a 2m ally at 2.7-2.8k ratings simply by swapping members.
Then at that tier, if alliances were matchmade with prestige or alliance rating (as long as either one is a factor), I could have that 2m ally in Tier 1 facing other low alliances and maintain tier 1.
See the issue?
War ratings should be the ONLY determining factor in matchmaking.
Comments
if it is only ever fighting other 2mill allies there is nothing to cap its level and therefore you would end up with 2 mill allies in top tiers.
0-3 mill allies all fight each other
3-7 mill allies all fight each other
7-11 mill allies all fight each other
11-15 mill allies all fight each other
16-20 mill allies all fight each other
20-25 mill allies all fight each other
so in time this will cause all tiers to have mixtures of all different strength allies that will never fight each other.
will cause t3 to have the best allies from each of those brackets.
this is not something that would happen within a season but something that would happen over a course of time.
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/75680/war-matchups-war-system-issue#latest
that is my data I collected before back in a previous season when I first saw this happening.
it started happening from wat I saw back a few seasons ago and then changed again to no longer happen.
now its happening more so again.
Bottom line, it’ll never happen, because they designed the system around such events. Lower tiered wins are greatly discounted.
+61, +63, +75, +72, +54 +52, +50, this one is +54/-52
and @GroundedWisdom I was not getting defensive, I don't know why you even thought that. I just can't be bothered discussing with you in circles and cirlces and circles. it becomes pointless as the same things just get said over and over to no avail.
I commented again once I saw someone else had something else to add.
Prestige of alliance is counting more than ever.
so as the criteria to matchmaking is changing this is changing the face of it.
I am seeing alliance prestige playing more and more of a factor. and WR playing a smaller part of the equation.
hens my 0 WR v 1300WR matchup
on quick look thorugh some random spots on leaderboard I see things like this
2.5 mil ally Gold 2
8.3 mil ally Plat 3
5.9 mil allt Gold 1
#41 gold 1 24 mil
#42 gold 1 11 mil
If random, do they have 30 members? You can have squads disband midseason and their points don’t disappear. You could have a 4 digit pi but still get rewards.
IF alliancs continue to be based off allince prestige and war rating.
it is not just one small alliance that will climb but many.
the alliance will keep fighting only other similar prestige and WR allies, they will continue climbing in bubbles,
2 mil never fighting 10mil, etc.
then we will begin to see higher tier allies that are low rating,
this is a problem at its creation it is something that in time will change the face of wars.
people are saying now that 2 mil allys are not in t3 cus they cant beat 20 mil allies.
great.
but if they only ever have to fight other 2 mil allies WR will increase on a lot of these 2 mil allies.
in time they will be there also.
really?
you cant tell me that was random.
its pretty clear that matchup was found based of number of members and prestige.
esp given that as an alliance of 5 all our wars have been against other alliances with only 4-9 members.
Here’s the multiplier
and I cant remember members or wateva the alliances I chose were just random selections.
should have paid more attention yes I get that.
but the point I am making is that in time 2mil allies will be able to climb to much higher tiers.
in time if 2 mil alliance fight 2 mil alliances only they will climb tiers.
it will be like a bubble.
With such a low multiplier, without winning they will drop not rise. There will be no “bubble”. Besides which, any squad that remains together will drift higher in pi. It’s how the game works. The example of a 2mm squad advancing works, if you place (formerly) before the 2mm.
Previously it was war tier that based alliances, so alliances wer capped as the eventually fought stronger alliers in their own tier.
also made it harder for some stonger newly formed allies to climb. matchups looked kinda like this.
now you have alliance fighting in bubbles. based on both WR and prestige/alliance rating.
which right now look like this
but as time goes on the smaller allies fighting only each other will begin to also grow their war ratings and it will become like this
with more wider range of allies filling the tiers
and then as more time passes this
this is all possible as weak alliances will only ever fight weak alliances and strong ones will only ever fight strong ones.
And there's probably a good reason why they dont' publish the exact formula for determining matchups (besides for not wanting to match same 2 teams multiple times even though they might always be right next to each other in calculations... it's proprietary internal code to the game.
Same reason why Kabam does not publish the exact code for determining when you would trigger a death match in arena. Everyone can guess, but not know exactly.
And yes, their AW rating will grow but you realize there has always been an AW inflation right? Season 1, top rating was 3k. Now, that’s the bottom of tier 1. Each season, the overall average rating drifts higher. Thus a 1,200 rating now won’t be worth the same in a couple seasons.
but prestige or rating both have same effect.
alliance fighting in bubbles of similar strength.
in time it will change.
before you had this.
all alliances in same tier fighting same tier.
Now you have this alliance fighting within the similar tiers but only similar opponents meaning more potential to grow the WR
in time it will expand to look like this
and then this
where bubbles of allies of all strengths populate all war tiers as they only ever fight similar opponents within the same bubbles.
they win and lose and climb up and down but never face opponents either side.
some allies keep churning over new members keeping their ratings low as they only take low rating members, depends wat kinda ally u wanna run,
some grow at faster rates,
some grow at slower rates.
my ally is 17mil.
I could turn it into a 4 mil ally in an instant. by replacing my members.
I could get low level but highly skilled players. like top tier players with alt accounts that basically just do war so barely grow.
it is the fairest I have seen.
we have won 7 in a row.
we have climbed from t7 to t4.
but if we are doing it so are others.
I love it, I am just pointing out a potential flaw with a system when it is based on strength of the alliances.
lets say these alliances cant climb.
lets say a bunch of peeps buy an old shell alliance with a WR of 2400.
they will start with a t3 lets say 3mill ally. with 4000 prestige.
will they lose every matchup until they drop to say like 1200 WR where say other strong 3mil allies are?
will they win 50/50 cus some matches favour the war rating and give them impossible matches based on WR? while others give them easier matches based on prestige?
cus really they should be plummeting with all losses until they meet a point where more 3 mil allies are.
but I suspect that they will get matches more inclined to fit their prestige and alliance rating rather than WR allowing them to stay higher for longer.
Then at that tier, if alliances were matchmade with prestige or alliance rating (as long as either one is a factor), I could have that 2m ally in Tier 1 facing other low alliances and maintain tier 1.
See the issue?
War ratings should be the ONLY determining factor in matchmaking.