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The Nick Fury Synergy Nerf

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    RagamugginGunnerRagamugginGunner Posts: 2,210 ★★★★★
    edited April 2019
    Lormif said:

    RagamugginGunner said:

    Lormif said:

    RagamugginGunner said:

    TheLegend27 said:

    RagamugginGunner said:

    TheLegend27 said:

    It's pretty clear from the description that only 1 debuff would be purified. That said, it's a pretty bad showing that, once again, the devs failed to properly vet the content they are putting out. I 100% understand how some could feel that this is false advertising to get more $$$ for a champ. If they're really going to be this bad at testing their own game, then they really need to move a lot faster on squashing bugs.

    How is that clear? Be specific.
    The synergy as written: "All Champions except Nick: If Nick is alive, once per fight when a teammate is inflicted with a Bleed, Poison or Shock Debuff he will drop a Restoration Kit, Purifying the Debuff and Regenerating 10% of their max health over 3 seconds.)"

    It says the kit will purify the "debuff." It doesn't say the kit will purify the debuffs. It also lists the debuffs with an "or" rather than with an "and."

    If you honestly look at the description without any previous bias from videos or other sources, you wouldn't read it as purifying more than 1 debuff. There are a lot of descriptions in this game that are poorly worded. This isn't once of those instances.
    You don't understand.

    Each debuff is singular but there are three debuffs that can be listed. Each individual debuff gets purified once, making it possible that one, two or three total debuffs will be purified depending on how many are applied at one time.
    That is not what it says. If 2 or 3 debuffs get purified then the effect happend 2 or 3 times, but the effect can only happen once, therefore your logic fails.
    Wrong.

    The kit can only be dropped once and each debuff can only be purified once. It does NOT say that if there are multiple debuffs that only one can be purified.
    Say what? the kit explitily says "the debuff", that means it can only remove one, singlular vs plural.


    If Nick is alive, once per fight when a teammate is inflicted with a Bleed, Poison or Shock Debuff he will drop a Restoration Kit, Purifying the Debuff

    It only drops once and it only removed 1 debuff. If something happens and you get multiple debuffs at one time you only get one removed, the first applied. The kit explicitly says "the debuff" meaning it only applies to one debuff.
    How do you still not get it?

    There are three debuffs listed. That means that up to three debuffs can be purified with the kit. I'll walk you through it slowly.

    The fight starts.
    Suicides inflict your champ with a bleed and a poison.
    The kit drops
    The kit purifies "a bleed" and regens 10%
    The kit purifies "a poison" and regens 10%

    It's incredibly simple.

    You are confusing what is actually singular and plural in the description. If your champ got 5 bleeds placed on them and it was purifying all 5 and giving out 50% regen you'd be right. That's not what's happening.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,247 ★★★★★
    Lormif said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Stewman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Stewman said:

    @GroundedWisdom
    You don't even have Nick Fury Why the hell do you care so much????

    And you keep stating that the community knew it was a bug. I didn't and would be willing to bet a majority didn't either.
    We honestly have no way to know exactly when this interaction caught Kabams attention.
    They fixed Sinister pretty darn quick.

    IMO the description is not clear enough about how many buffs it will remove. It does happen 1 time per fight, that is clear, but how many buffs it was intended to remove at once is debatable. I can assume many thought it was working as intended because of how other mechanics like masochism works with multiple debuffs.

    At the end of the day, I didn't spend time or money trying to get Nick (but I have been saving shards in hopes of getting him), so I am not personally effected by the change.
    And the debate on whether this is a nerf or a fix is beyond counter productive.
    The English language is complicated enough that arguing over the definition of slang words is pretty funny.

    I've already established I have him. That's not what we're debating here. That's not a requirement to participate.
    3* doesn't count and you know it.
    A 3* doesn't count for having the Champ? Disagree with that one. Had you asked if I had the 5*, that would be different.
    Now you are being intellectually being honest. there is an implied context that you have this champ in some sort of competitive way.
    They asked if I had the Champ. I do. That doesn't mean I have to have the 5*. There is a difference in questioning. Synergy works with a 3* too, if you wanted to get really technical, but that's not even the purpose of the line of questioning. They're just trying to shut me out of the conversation, and it's not going to work.
  • Options
    SDPSDP Posts: 1,622 ★★★★
    So which suicide debuff does it purify? Haven’t tested yet.
  • Options
    LormifLormif Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    RagamugginGunner said:

    Lormif said:

    RagamugginGunner said:

    Lormif said:

    RagamugginGunner said:

    TheLegend27 said:

    RagamugginGunner said:

    TheLegend27 said:

    It's pretty clear from the description that only 1 debuff would be purified. That said, it's a pretty bad showing that, once again, the devs failed to properly vet the content they are putting out. I 100% understand how some could feel that this is false advertising to get more $$$ for a champ. If they're really going to be this bad at testing their own game, then they really need to move a lot faster on squashing bugs.

    How is that clear? Be specific.
    The synergy as written: "All Champions except Nick: If Nick is alive, once per fight when a teammate is inflicted with a Bleed, Poison or Shock Debuff he will drop a Restoration Kit, Purifying the Debuff and Regenerating 10% of their max health over 3 seconds.)"

    It says the kit will purify the "debuff." It doesn't say the kit will purify the debuffs. It also lists the debuffs with an "or" rather than with an "and."

    If you honestly look at the description without any previous bias from videos or other sources, you wouldn't read it as purifying more than 1 debuff. There are a lot of descriptions in this game that are poorly worded. This isn't once of those instances.
    You don't understand.

    Each debuff is singular but there are three debuffs that can be listed. Each individual debuff gets purified once, making it possible that one, two or three total debuffs will be purified depending on how many are applied at one time.
    That is not what it says. If 2 or 3 debuffs get purified then the effect happend 2 or 3 times, but the effect can only happen once, therefore your logic fails.
    Wrong.

    The kit can only be dropped once and each debuff can only be purified once. It does NOT say that if there are multiple debuffs that only one can be purified.
    Say what? the kit explitily says "the debuff", that means it can only remove one, singlular vs plural.


    If Nick is alive, once per fight when a teammate is inflicted with a Bleed, Poison or Shock Debuff he will drop a Restoration Kit, Purifying the Debuff

    It only drops once and it only removed 1 debuff. If something happens and you get multiple debuffs at one time you only get one removed, the first applied. The kit explicitly says "the debuff" meaning it only applies to one debuff.
    How do you still not get it?

    There are three debuffs listed. That means that up to three debuffs can be purified with the kit.
    It again does not say that, it says "when a teammate is inflicted with a Bleed, Poison or Shock". This is known as a trigger phrase of a condition

    If x or y or x THEN
    do action
    fi

    It has nothing to do with the aciton itself, just that the action is triggered..

    If a bleed poison or shock occurs it drops the item, that item clears the debuff.

    If we look at this simple conditional then yes it would clear all there, but now there is another part, it makes the statement this:

    If (x or y or x) AND (action has already not occurred) THEN
    do action
    fi


    The problem is we see all 3 buffs at the same time so you think, well they all happened at the same time, but they do not, they all happen at the start of the fight in an an order designated by the program, it has to evaluate the condition for each and every debuff, not on all of them at the same time, therefore it will only happen on one debuff, the first applied.
  • Options
    LormifLormif Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    TheSupreme said:

    @Kabam Miike if this is truly a bug then you guys should fix buffet it's the same thing .

    buffet or masochism, the latter is the big one, I never noticed it on buffet.
  • Options
    LormifLormif Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Stewman said:

    Stewman said:

    Lormif said:

    Stewman said:

    @GroundedWisdom
    You don't even have Nick Fury Why the hell do you care so much????

    And you keep stating that the community knew it was a bug. I didn't and would be willing to bet a majority didn't either.
    We honestly have no way to know exactly when this interaction caught Kabams attention.
    They fixed Sinister pretty darn quick.

    IMO the description is not clear enough about how many buffs it will remove. It does happen 1 time per fight, that is clear, but how many buffs it was intended to remove at once is debatable. I can assume many thought it was working as intended because of how other mechanics like masochism works with multiple debuffs.

    At the end of the day, I didn't spend time or money trying to get Nick (but I have been saving shards in hopes of getting him), so I am not personally effected by the change.
    And the debate on whether this is a nerf or a fix is beyond counter productive.
    The English language is complicated enough that arguing over the definition of slang words is pretty funny.

    It would be really tough for a native English speaker to make the claim because it shows a severe lack of understanding of plural and singular words. "the" "a" "debuff", only one of them is slang, but the others define singlurar nature of it.
    I was referring to the slang word of "nerf"
    Also if your argument is over singular and plural whey is masochism description singular and removes multiple debuffs as once.
    We can agree that something is wrong with masochism, it should not work that way based on its description, my thought is they wanted to get rid of CGs interaction with it when he applies an amor break and instead of reordering which debuff hit first they just hat it remove it all, because reordering it would cause some timing issues.
  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,247 ★★★★★
    Masochism - "Every 7 seconds the next Debuff triggered on this Champion is immediately removed....."
    Buffet - "Every 7 seconds the next Buff triggered by the Attacker is immediately Nullified...."
  • Options
    RagamugginGunnerRagamugginGunner Posts: 2,210 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Masochism - "Every 7 seconds the next Debuff triggered on this Champion is immediately removed....."
    Buffet - "Every 7 seconds the next Buff triggered by the Attacker is immediately Nullified...."

    Thanks for proving my point.
    Those remove multiple buffs/debuffs if they're applied at once.
  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,247 ★★★★★
    Same type, or multiples of specific ones?
  • Options
    LormifLormif Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    RagamugginGunner said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Masochism - "Every 7 seconds the next Debuff triggered on this Champion is immediately removed....."
    Buffet - "Every 7 seconds the next Buff triggered by the Attacker is immediately Nullified...."

    Thanks for proving my point.
    Those remove multiple buffs/debuffs if they're applied at once.
    It doesnt prove your point, because it does not show that they are working properly.
  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,247 ★★★★★
    I was just giving the description. If it's the same stacks of Buffs/Debuffs, that would make sense. If it's removing different types all at once, I would agree it's not as described.
  • Options
    StewmanStewman Posts: 735 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    Stewman said:

    Stewman said:

    Lormif said:

    Stewman said:

    @GroundedWisdom
    You don't even have Nick Fury Why the hell do you care so much????

    And you keep stating that the community knew it was a bug. I didn't and would be willing to bet a majority didn't either.
    We honestly have no way to know exactly when this interaction caught Kabams attention.
    They fixed Sinister pretty darn quick.

    IMO the description is not clear enough about how many buffs it will remove. It does happen 1 time per fight, that is clear, but how many buffs it was intended to remove at once is debatable. I can assume many thought it was working as intended because of how other mechanics like masochism works with multiple debuffs.

    At the end of the day, I didn't spend time or money trying to get Nick (but I have been saving shards in hopes of getting him), so I am not personally effected by the change.
    And the debate on whether this is a nerf or a fix is beyond counter productive.
    The English language is complicated enough that arguing over the definition of slang words is pretty funny.

    It would be really tough for a native English speaker to make the claim because it shows a severe lack of understanding of plural and singular words. "the" "a" "debuff", only one of them is slang, but the others define singlurar nature of it.
    I was referring to the slang word of "nerf"
    Also if your argument is over singular and plural whey is masochism description singular and removes multiple debuffs as once.
    We can agree that something is wrong with masochism, it should not work that way based on its description, my thought is they wanted to get rid of CGs interaction with it when he applies an amor break and instead of reordering which debuff hit first they just hat it remove it all, because reordering it would cause some timing issues.
    But we can't agree, mods in the past confirmed masochism and buffet were working as intended.
    And it was long before CG
  • Options
    webtswxwebtswx Posts: 192 ★
    so masochism node doesnt actually match its description?
  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,247 ★★★★★
    That depends. Are we talking about it removing any and all, or are we talking about it removing all stacks of the same? I would consider the latter working as intended because they're all stacks of the same Buff/Debuff.
  • Options
    StewmanStewman Posts: 735 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    I was just giving the description. If it's the same stacks of Buffs/Debuffs, that would make sense. If it's removing different types all at once, I would agree it's not as described.

    Yes GW It removes different types. That is what me and Rag are saying....
  • Options
    StewmanStewman Posts: 735 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    That depends. Are we talking about it removing any and all, or are we talking about it removing all stacks of the same? I would consider the latter working as intended because they're all stacks of the same Buff/Debuff.

    Example: Blade stun a masochism node. It will remove both the stun and the bleed debuff.
  • Options
    RagamugginGunnerRagamugginGunner Posts: 2,210 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Same type, or multiples of specific ones?

    It removes ALL debuffs. A pary w/ Corvus removes the stun AND the armor break.

  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,247 ★★★★★
    Do you have another example? That could be programmed as all one application. If the Parry applies the Bleed, they could be all one Debuff in the coding.
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    webtswxwebtswx Posts: 192 ★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    That depends. Are we talking about it removing any and all, or are we talking about it removing all stacks of the same? I would consider the latter working as intended because they're all stacks of the same Buff/Debuff.

    it's not the latter. for instance, it would remove two different types of debuff from cap iw triggered at the same time. and it would remove both the armor break and stun from corvus

    so the description (the next debuff) fails to precisely capture what is being intended
  • Options
    RagamugginGunnerRagamugginGunner Posts: 2,210 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Do you have another example? That could be programmed as all one application. If the Parry applies the Bleed, they could be all one Debuff in the coding.

    ugh
  • Options
    StewmanStewman Posts: 735 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Do you have another example? That could be programmed as all one application. If the Parry applies the Bleed, they could be all one Debuff in the coding.

    I mean... literally pick anyone that causes another effect when parrying.
    Thor stun armor break
    Cap IW with synergy's stun weakness petrify armor break ( all clear at the same time)
    Have you never fought a masochism node before?

    Besides like I said, mods confirmed it working as intended a very long time ago.



  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,247 ★★★★★
    webtswx said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    That depends. Are we talking about it removing any and all, or are we talking about it removing all stacks of the same? I would consider the latter working as intended because they're all stacks of the same Buff/Debuff.

    it's not the latter. for instance, it would remove two different types of debuff from cap iw triggered at the same time. and it would remove both the armor break and stun from corvus

    so the description (the next debuff) fails to precisely capture what is being intended
    What I'm saying is, in the case of Champs that apply Debuffs through Parry, the issue might not be with the Nodes, it might be how those Champs apply them. It could be registering as all one.
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    Tasty_Yum_YumsTasty_Yum_Yums Posts: 444 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Really doesn't matter how long it takes them. There's no timeline on fixing bugs, and they're not going to just leave it because it's been that long. Some bugs take much longer to fix, doesn't mean they stop being a priority.

    Really, you sure about that? What about domino and GR who they didn’t fix and just changed the text....
  • Options
    LormifLormif Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    edited April 2019
    Stewman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Do you have another example? That could be programmed as all one application. If the Parry applies the Bleed, they could be all one Debuff in the coding.

    I mean... literally pick anyone that causes another effect when parrying.
    Thor stun armor break
    Cap IW with synergy's stun weakness petrify armor break ( all clear at the same time)
    Have you never fought a masochism node before?

    Besides like I said, mods confirmed it working as intended a very long time ago.



    it is strange it did not used to be like this, thor's parry for example used to strip the armor break but not stun, as late as last year:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdTji3ys87o
  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,247 ★★★★★
    Tasty_Yum_Yums said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Really doesn't matter how long it takes them. There's no timeline on fixing bugs, and they're not going to just leave it because it's been that long. Some bugs take much longer to fix, doesn't mean they stop being a priority.

    Really, you sure about that? What about domino and GR who they didn’t fix and just changed the text....
    Care to give a little context? Were they confirmed bugs or just text errors?
  • Options
    LormifLormif Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Tasty_Yum_Yums said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Really doesn't matter how long it takes them. There's no timeline on fixing bugs, and they're not going to just leave it because it's been that long. Some bugs take much longer to fix, doesn't mean they stop being a priority.

    Really, you sure about that? What about domino and GR who they didn’t fix and just changed the text....
    they did that because the abilities would have made them stronger than intended. that is not what he is saying.
This discussion has been closed.