New Game Mode as an Alternative to War?

Ok so we need only look at general discussion here to see the number of alliances either recruiting for AQ only or players looking for same.

Is it time we have another game mode introduced as an alternative? In the past the bases module was being developed but seems to have been dropped.

Judging by the fact the top Master level alliances from Season 9 have disbanded and people are dropping Alliance Wars in droves this season it would seem that AW is dead as a game mode unless they do something about these new harder maps that no one really enjoys anymore.

Most of the previous Master or even Plat level alliances if they are still doing it are taking it so easy that they have drifted way down and now in Gold 1 or 2 tiers which again distorts matches and level of enjoyment for those who never intended to push so hard for those top level rewards.

Perhaps revert to the previous one next season if you’re going to introduce defence tactics for Season 11. No amount of rewards increase on this map plus defence tactics would help me reconsider my position and I’ll bet I’m not alone.

There are nodes on first tier of map that are harder than the end bosses and have regularly been getting at least 3 times as many kills due to the interaction of masteries plus the defender and node properties. No one enjoys having your whole team virtually KO’d on the very first or second node on the map and feeling like you’ve let your team down.

Comments

  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★

    Ok so we need only look at general discussion here to see the number of alliances either recruiting for AQ only or players looking for same.

    Is it time we have another game mode introduced as an alternative? In the past the bases module was being developed but seems to have been dropped.

    Judging by the fact the top Master level alliances from Season 9 have disbanded and people are dropping Alliance Wars in droves this season it would seem that AW is dead as a game mode unless they do something about these new harder maps that no one really enjoys anymore.

    Most of the previous Master or even Plat level alliances if they are still doing it are taking it so easy that they have drifted way down and now in Gold 1 or 2 tiers which again distorts matches and level of enjoyment for those who never intended to push so hard for those top level rewards.

    Perhaps revert to the previous one next season if you’re going to introduce defence tactics for Season 11. No amount of rewards increase on this map plus defence tactics would help me reconsider my position and I’ll bet I’m not alone.

    There are nodes on first tier of map that are harder than the end bosses and have regularly been getting at least 3 times as many kills due to the interaction of masteries plus the defender and node properties. No one enjoys having your whole team virtually KO’d on the very first or second node on the map and feeling like you’ve let your team down.

    Looking at current rankings most of your premises are false as those guilds are still there at the to
  • synergy247synergy247 Posts: 285
    Lormif said:

    Ok so we need only look at general discussion here to see the number of alliances either recruiting for AQ only or players looking for same.

    Is it time we have another game mode introduced as an alternative? In the past the bases module was being developed but seems to have been dropped.

    Judging by the fact the top Master level alliances from Season 9 have disbanded and people are dropping Alliance Wars in droves this season it would seem that AW is dead as a game mode unless they do something about these new harder maps that no one really enjoys anymore.

    Most of the previous Master or even Plat level alliances if they are still doing it are taking it so easy that they have drifted way down and now in Gold 1 or 2 tiers which again distorts matches and level of enjoyment for those who never intended to push so hard for those top level rewards.

    Perhaps revert to the previous one next season if you’re going to introduce defence tactics for Season 11. No amount of rewards increase on this map plus defence tactics would help me reconsider my position and I’ll bet I’m not alone.

    There are nodes on first tier of map that are harder than the end bosses and have regularly been getting at least 3 times as many kills due to the interaction of masteries plus the defender and node properties. No one enjoys having your whole team virtually KO’d on the very first or second node on the map and feeling like you’ve let your team down.

    Looking at current rankings most of your premises are false as those guilds are still there at the to
    It was a fact that the top alliance Kenobi I think it was were down to only one member after the end of last season that’s what I’m referring to... so I’ve outlined a fairly detailed argument and your response is a two liner? Kabam support auto response like quality...
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,746 ★★★★★
    Some might drop out, but others will move up. War is far from dead.
  • Fred_JoeityFred_Joeity Posts: 1,113 ★★★
    I don’t know. It’s already annoying juggling AQ, AW, and EQ due to my champions being locked out. A third alliance mode of gameplay might be a bit too much.
  • Feeney234Feeney234 Posts: 683 ★★★
    No need for all that. War just needs a better payout for the hassle.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,746 ★★★★★
    The Rewards are being revamped next Season.
  • Duke_SilverDuke_Silver Posts: 2,396 ★★★★
    I like war (probably cause I’m not in a stressful high war tier alliance) a lot more than AQ personally.
  • DTMelodicMetalDTMelodicMetal Posts: 2,799 ★★★★★


    It was a fact that the top alliance Kenobi I think it was were down to only one member after the end of last season that’s what I’m referring to... so I’ve outlined a fairly detailed argument and your response is a two liner? Kabam support auto response like quality...

    You're misattributing shell alliances to war burnout
  • This seems to differ for some. While I understand and to a certain extent agree with @synergy247 that AW is in dire straits, it's far from dead. My Alliance is doing the best we've ever done this Season. The Map has some funky nodes, and combined with certain champs it's a headache, but most have already adjusted. I do agree that it doesn't feel worth it at times. On the flipside, we decided to go full swing because it's highly unlikely things will go backward in any sense when it comes to AW.

    They certainly won't ditch the map. It's doubtful they'll stop doing it as a whole. They said they plan to rework the reward system for Season 11 and then roll out of Defense Tactics. The addition of such will undoubtedly increase the difficulty. For some, even with the reward boost, DT will bury their desire to push onward in AW. I like Challenge. I do. I also like when the Challenge matches what you get in return for your efforts. As of right now, that's not the case, as many will agree. Just the same, we want to be prepared to take on DT on this map next Season.

    Kabam typically brings a bit of balance to the reward/effort output when updating things. So, theoretically, the new Season rewards should be comparable to AQ time/effort wise per tier. If that's indeed going to be the case, you may see more players coming back. I know as it stands many are so disillusioned by the current situation that they don't see it changing enough to justify returning to full swing competition. Which is fair. I get it. It's not like my crew and I aren't upset with putting what we are and getting back what we do. Seriously, the War Victor Crystal is a JOKE these days, and that's putting it nicely.

    All in all, it's a bit of a mess. However, there's 2 weeks left in this Season. So in 2 weeks, hopefully we'll be enlightened upon the upcoming rewards. That could be the carrot everyone needs to get back into the swing. If it's not... well... we'll see how everyone responds then now won't we? I will say they made it much more manageable than the 1st iteration of the Map we initially received. So perhaps in time, the majority will adjust, the rewards will be appealing (enough to try anyway), and AW will be less of a pariah.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 11,778 Guardian

    All in all, it's a bit of a mess. However, there's 2 weeks left in this Season. So in 2 weeks, hopefully we'll be enlightened upon the upcoming rewards. That could be the carrot everyone needs to get back into the swing. If it's not... well... we'll see how everyone responds then now won't we? I will say they made it much more manageable than the 1st iteration of the Map we initially received. So perhaps in time, the majority will adjust, the rewards will be appealing (enough to try anyway), and AW will be less of a pariah.

    I don't think rewards are the solution, in fact they are a part of the problem. There has to be some balance between difficulty and rewards, but that balance is a relative balance. You play the game to play the game, not because the rewards are a suitable bribe to play the game. If you have to be bribed to play the game, the game is already a permanent failure for you. Rewards present the player with a choice as to where they spend their time in-game and how they choose to navigate the progress ladder. But rewards do not make the game more fun.

    The problem is you cannot compensate for unpalatable gameplay with more rewards. What you end up doing is taking something players don't want to do and force them to do it because the rewards are too high to pass up.

    I think if rewards are increased participation will go up, but unhappiness will also go up: that increased participation won't be a sign of improvement in the system.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★

    Lormif said:

    Ok so we need only look at general discussion here to see the number of alliances either recruiting for AQ only or players looking for same.

    Is it time we have another game mode introduced as an alternative? In the past the bases module was being developed but seems to have been dropped.

    Judging by the fact the top Master level alliances from Season 9 have disbanded and people are dropping Alliance Wars in droves this season it would seem that AW is dead as a game mode unless they do something about these new harder maps that no one really enjoys anymore.

    Most of the previous Master or even Plat level alliances if they are still doing it are taking it so easy that they have drifted way down and now in Gold 1 or 2 tiers which again distorts matches and level of enjoyment for those who never intended to push so hard for those top level rewards.

    Perhaps revert to the previous one next season if you’re going to introduce defence tactics for Season 11. No amount of rewards increase on this map plus defence tactics would help me reconsider my position and I’ll bet I’m not alone.

    There are nodes on first tier of map that are harder than the end bosses and have regularly been getting at least 3 times as many kills due to the interaction of masteries plus the defender and node properties. No one enjoys having your whole team virtually KO’d on the very first or second node on the map and feeling like you’ve let your team down.

    Looking at current rankings most of your premises are false as those guilds are still there at the to
    It was a fact that the top alliance Kenobi I think it was were down to only one member after the end of last season that’s what I’m referring to... so I’ve outlined a fairly detailed argument and your response is a two liner? Kabam support auto response like quality...
    Your post was actually not fairly detailed. It was fully of vague assertions, and as you just pointed out, made up vague assertion. While you claim to have been talking about ONE alliance, you stated MOST alliances. Now when I Go back to either my computer science logic, or my philosophy logic classes I learn that it called making stuff up. When you actually give a true, detailed argument where the premise is not outright false then maybe you will get more, of you can use this actually detailed response instead.
  • RektorRektor Posts: 673 ★★★

    Lormif said:

    Ok so we need only look at general discussion here to see the number of alliances either recruiting for AQ only or players looking for same.

    Is it time we have another game mode introduced as an alternative? In the past the bases module was being developed but seems to have been dropped.

    Judging by the fact the top Master level alliances from Season 9 have disbanded and people are dropping Alliance Wars in droves this season it would seem that AW is dead as a game mode unless they do something about these new harder maps that no one really enjoys anymore.

    Most of the previous Master or even Plat level alliances if they are still doing it are taking it so easy that they have drifted way down and now in Gold 1 or 2 tiers which again distorts matches and level of enjoyment for those who never intended to push so hard for those top level rewards.

    Perhaps revert to the previous one next season if you’re going to introduce defence tactics for Season 11. No amount of rewards increase on this map plus defence tactics would help me reconsider my position and I’ll bet I’m not alone.

    There are nodes on first tier of map that are harder than the end bosses and have regularly been getting at least 3 times as many kills due to the interaction of masteries plus the defender and node properties. No one enjoys having your whole team virtually KO’d on the very first or second node on the map and feeling like you’ve let your team down.

    Looking at current rankings most of your premises are false as those guilds are still there at the to
    It was a fact that the top alliance Kenobi I think it was were down to only one member after the end of last season that’s what I’m referring to... so I’ve outlined a fairly detailed argument and your response is a two liner? Kabam support auto response like quality...
    Many alliances are sick of war but KenOB is not one of them. They swap to dormant shell alliances after every season so that their war rating during the season stays about 500 points lower than it should be.
  • synergy247synergy247 Posts: 285
    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    Ok so we need only look at general discussion here to see the number of alliances either recruiting for AQ only or players looking for same.

    Is it time we have another game mode introduced as an alternative? In the past the bases module was being developed but seems to have been dropped.

    Judging by the fact the top Master level alliances from Season 9 have disbanded and people are dropping Alliance Wars in droves this season it would seem that AW is dead as a game mode unless they do something about these new harder maps that no one really enjoys anymore.

    Most of the previous Master or even Plat level alliances if they are still doing it are taking it so easy that they have drifted way down and now in Gold 1 or 2 tiers which again distorts matches and level of enjoyment for those who never intended to push so hard for those top level rewards.

    Perhaps revert to the previous one next season if you’re going to introduce defence tactics for Season 11. No amount of rewards increase on this map plus defence tactics would help me reconsider my position and I’ll bet I’m not alone.

    There are nodes on first tier of map that are harder than the end bosses and have regularly been getting at least 3 times as many kills due to the interaction of masteries plus the defender and node properties. No one enjoys having your whole team virtually KO’d on the very first or second node on the map and feeling like you’ve let your team down.

    Looking at current rankings most of your premises are false as those guilds are still there at the to
    It was a fact that the top alliance Kenobi I think it was were down to only one member after the end of last season that’s what I’m referring to... so I’ve outlined a fairly detailed argument and your response is a two liner? Kabam support auto response like quality...
    Your post was actually not fairly detailed. It was fully of vague assertions, and as you just pointed out, made up vague assertion. While you claim to have been talking about ONE alliance, you stated MOST alliances. Now when I Go back to either my computer science logic, or my philosophy logic classes I learn that it called making stuff up. When you actually give a true, detailed argument where the premise is not outright false then maybe you will get more, of you can use this actually detailed response instead.
    Thanks mate but I don’t really need one! Plenty of others have already chimed in. And plenty of people agree that war is either no longer fun or worth the time involved. Shell alliances or not.

    I’ve seen a lot of war match ups this season where our opponents had multiple guys with rosters over 1m in team rating, and they’re in Gold 1. Never seen that before at this level and I’ve played since season 1.

    If AW is meant to be the highest level of competition and fun then why is it that so many people are talking about not caring or pushing hard? Or dropping the mode entirely in favour of AQ that has never happened before and I’ve never seen so many saying they’re sick of it or not interested in playing wars anymore. From week to week there have been retirements from my alliance for burnout from war having to use so many items just to keep up etc where that glory or resources could be better spent growing their roster eg rank ups materials.

    If that small sample is indicative of a wider trend across the community and you can extrapolate it that way by the number of alliances recruiting for AQ only or players looking for same as per the general discussions board then something has to be done to either adjust wars back to a reasonable level of challenge for the time involved or look at alternatives to it.

    The beta involved only the top 800 alliances yet the war map affected everyone and everyone still has to wait for a rewards bump.

    Maybe delay Season 11 for an entire month this time as a mode and see if we can get the balance right while it gets a proper retooling in the off season, and we get that month to work out how defence tactics is gonna affect things and not just a haphazard one week on the new map like this season, 5 wars instead of 6, a last minute adjustment or correction to difficulty mere hours before kick off etc.

    When a new EQ or say 6.2 comes out they rely on feedback to work out whether the content is bugged or requires adjustment to level of difficulty and this normally takes weeks or a month before anything is actioned. A longer lead time to allow for this in war is not only prudent and reasonable but sensible given the disastrous start to Season 10. More so than a whirlwind beta over a few days with wars so short and ineffective with many blank maps of no/few placed defenders after the first day. And while I’m on that for the next beta it needs to be at least a week, with some kind of participation rewards for the people who take the time to do it and help provide feedback for the greater good of the community.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,746 ★★★★★
    S
    DNA3000 said:

    Some might drop out, but others will move up. War is far from dead.

    It is far from dead, but I'm not sure it isn't pointless. It is a presumptive competitive mode in which the growing recommendation is to not take the competition seriously, and it fails in the primary goal I believe all guild-like content is supposed to have in MMOs which is to promote inter-player cohesion. In purely game design terms, that's the presumptive reason alliances exist. All that development time and money is supposed to have a return on investment, and that return is a more engaged playerbase that is "stickied" to the game by virtue of making connections with other players.

    But it seems a high percentage of alliances are either sticking together in spite of alliance war by not taking the competition seriously, or taking the competition seriously enough to dissolve alliances. That seems counter-productive to me. Although I'm sure many alliances are perfectly fine with alliance war as it exists now and as it has been existing since 14.0, if my observations do reflect reality I'd say that objectively speaking AW is a failure, in that it does not generate the results it is supposed to generate in terms of being a positive addition to the game.

    I don't say this lightly. Dungeons are a thing I don't play much, because they are incompatible with the way I play the game and my on-call professional requirements. But just because they aren't right for me, doesn't mean I think they are bad. I think they are a good addition to the game, in that they add something but they don't hurt the game as a whole. Although there are some parts to it that don't work right in my opinion, I don't think Dungeons are pointless.

    Prior to 14.0 and prior to seasons, I would say the point to alliance war was to give players who wanted more of a direct competitive mode of play something to do. It added to the game, but it also added some bad side effects to the game in terms of how wars were prosecuted and how they added stress to alliances. But at the time, I said publicly I thought that trade was worth it, it was worth the added stress to give that segment of the player population a small piece of the game. I wouldn't say that today. Today, I would say alliance war fell into the same trap many PvE games do when they carelessly add PvP retroactively. It ended up being more trouble than it is worth, and I would not mourn its passing.

    Alliance war isn't dead. My alliance still participates. But we participate completely for fun, without really thinking about it as an alliance-wide competitive game mode, and I don't see that changing any time soon. So in terms of being what it is supposed to be, alliance war is dead to me.
    I think that's just the swing of the pendulum. In the beginning, it became way too competitive, which there is such a thing. It was new and Rewards were tempting. Unfortunately, that also encompasses all the unhelathy ways people were playing. We're at a later point of refining now, and some of those ways are no longer lucrative. The challenge factor has increased, and things are shifting. I just see it as balancing. Not that I'm suggesting your own personal situation involves the shady ways of trying to advance. Just overall. Competitiveness is an Inverted U. Too much, and it's counterproductive. I'm of the school of thought that people should play to the best they can and let go of the rest either way. It's been taken too far, and now things are not as easy.
  • synergy247synergy247 Posts: 285
    Variant 1 had the back issues Ultron type setup for nostalgia but while the difficulty was too high the concept of maybe having an alternate map might have merit?

    An idea is for example give the new map and defence tactics in war to apply for seasons ie an opt in thing similar to enlistment but for those who just want shards etc without the full on competitive mode can opt out and do the previous version of the map.

    The second option could have war rating locked so as not to have any manipulation
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    Ok so we need only look at general discussion here to see the number of alliances either recruiting for AQ only or players looking for same.

    Is it time we have another game mode introduced as an alternative? In the past the bases module was being developed but seems to have been dropped.

    Judging by the fact the top Master level alliances from Season 9 have disbanded and people are dropping Alliance Wars in droves this season it would seem that AW is dead as a game mode unless they do something about these new harder maps that no one really enjoys anymore.

    Most of the previous Master or even Plat level alliances if they are still doing it are taking it so easy that they have drifted way down and now in Gold 1 or 2 tiers which again distorts matches and level of enjoyment for those who never intended to push so hard for those top level rewards.

    Perhaps revert to the previous one next season if you’re going to introduce defence tactics for Season 11. No amount of rewards increase on this map plus defence tactics would help me reconsider my position and I’ll bet I’m not alone.

    There are nodes on first tier of map that are harder than the end bosses and have regularly been getting at least 3 times as many kills due to the interaction of masteries plus the defender and node properties. No one enjoys having your whole team virtually KO’d on the very first or second node on the map and feeling like you’ve let your team down.

    Looking at current rankings most of your premises are false as those guilds are still there at the to
    It was a fact that the top alliance Kenobi I think it was were down to only one member after the end of last season that’s what I’m referring to... so I’ve outlined a fairly detailed argument and your response is a two liner? Kabam support auto response like quality...
    Your post was actually not fairly detailed. It was fully of vague assertions, and as you just pointed out, made up vague assertion. While you claim to have been talking about ONE alliance, you stated MOST alliances. Now when I Go back to either my computer science logic, or my philosophy logic classes I learn that it called making stuff up. When you actually give a true, detailed argument where the premise is not outright false then maybe you will get more, of you can use this actually detailed response instead.
    Thanks mate but I don’t really need one! Plenty of others have already chimed in. And plenty of people agree that war is either no longer fun or worth the time involved. Shell alliances or not.

    I’ve seen a lot of war match ups this season where our opponents had multiple guys with rosters over 1m in team rating, and they’re in Gold 1. Never seen that before at this level and I’ve played since season 1.

    If AW is meant to be the highest level of competition and fun then why is it that so many people are talking about not caring or pushing hard? Or dropping the mode entirely in favour of AQ that has never happened before and I’ve never seen so many saying they’re sick of it or not interested in playing wars anymore. From week to week there have been retirements from my alliance for burnout from war having to use so many items just to keep up etc where that glory or resources could be better spent growing their roster eg rank ups materials.

    If that small sample is indicative of a wider trend across the community and you can extrapolate it that way by the number of alliances recruiting for AQ only or players looking for same as per the general discussions board then something has to be done to either adjust wars back to a reasonable level of challenge for the time involved or look at alternatives to it.

    The beta involved only the top 800 alliances yet the war map affected everyone and everyone still has to wait for a rewards bump.

    Maybe delay Season 11 for an entire month this time as a mode and see if we can get the balance right while it gets a proper retooling in the off season, and we get that month to work out how defence tactics is gonna affect things and not just a haphazard one week on the new map like this season, 5 wars instead of 6, a last minute adjustment or correction to difficulty mere hours before kick off etc.

    When a new EQ or say 6.2 comes out they rely on feedback to work out whether the content is bugged or requires adjustment to level of difficulty and this normally takes weeks or a month before anything is actioned. A longer lead time to allow for this in war is not only prudent and reasonable but sensible given the disastrous start to Season 10. More so than a whirlwind beta over a few days with wars so short and ineffective with many blank maps of no/few placed defenders after the first day. And while I’m on that for the next beta it needs to be at least a week, with some kind of participation rewards for the people who take the time to do it and help provide feedback for the greater good of the community.
    Except your “lots” tend to be 1 or a couple. In addition there has always been major talk about just doing aq. For someone who has supposedly been doing war since season 1 you have serious lack of knowledge on the subject.
  • synergy247synergy247 Posts: 285
    That’s your opinion only. And if so not at any great level. I’ve done a lot of recruiting since AW started and very rarely saw anyone looking for AQ only. If you have nothing constructive to add to the debate other than to insult probably better to go elsewhere
  • DNA3000 said:

    All in all, it's a bit of a mess. However, there's 2 weeks left in this Season. So in 2 weeks, hopefully we'll be enlightened upon the upcoming rewards. That could be the carrot everyone needs to get back into the swing. If it's not... well... we'll see how everyone responds then now won't we? I will say they made it much more manageable than the 1st iteration of the Map we initially received. So perhaps in time, the majority will adjust, the rewards will be appealing (enough to try anyway), and AW will be less of a pariah.

    I don't think rewards are the solution, in fact they are a part of the problem. There has to be some balance between difficulty and rewards, but that balance is a relative balance. You play the game to play the game, not because the rewards are a suitable bribe to play the game. If you have to be bribed to play the game, the game is already a permanent failure for you. Rewards present the player with a choice as to where they spend their time in-game and how they choose to navigate the progress ladder. But rewards do not make the game more fun.

    The problem is you cannot compensate for unpalatable gameplay with more rewards. What you end up doing is taking something players don't want to do and force them to do it because the rewards are too high to pass up.

    I think if rewards are increased participation will go up, but unhappiness will also go up: that increased participation won't be a sign of improvement in the system.
    Oh I wholeheartedly agree @DNA3000 . I'm not convinced the reward increse will legitimately 'fix' the situation. I'm just acknowledging that it 'may' be enough to increase participation, and get some more competitive results. On the flipside, you're probably right. More people will likely be unhappy in general. Stress levels will likely increase. ESPECIALLY due to Defense Tactics. I was mainly stating how our Alliance is handling the situation as it stands. My view is this, if we can't elicit the changes desired, best to be prepared for what's coming if we wish to remain competitive.

    I want to say maybe a new game mode would help, but then I start remembering certain aspects of the community and how they responds to things. Pro, it could bring new desire to play. Con, some Alliances would undoubtedly try to run all 3 things and player burn out would likely increase. Pro, new mode, different rewards (theoretically). Con, the fringe players as they're called would likely find way to exploit the new mode. Which then leads to another Con, yet another mode they have to maintain (i.e. more bugs to deal with). I'm sure there's many more bullet points for both sides. Those are the 1st to come to mind.

    Even if they did a secondary Map situation as recently mentioned by @synergy247 , it's hard to say whether that would be a plus or a minus. Then again, maybe we take that 1 step further. Imagine if you will, a 3 Map AW situation. The OG Map, the final iteration of the second Map (the last one we dealt with prior to the current), and the new one. For the Season, your Alliance locks into one of them and competes with other Alliances in that Map tier. Each Map tier would have individual Season reward Tiers. This would open the door for lower Alliances to compete for better rewards on an easier Map, or try their luck at a harder Map with top notch rewards. Or allow mid to upper tier Alliances to dial back on an easier map, but still compete for relatively decent rewards.

    The original AW Map would be the lowest rewards. The 2nd iteration would keep the current version of the Season rewards. The 3rd get a new, higher tier reward system. Granted this is all hypothetical and has room for growth. Giving players options might be key to bringing some fun back to AW. It would undoubtedly help many Alliances as it being tiered per Map, they're fighting against a smaller group of Alliances vs going against them all. Which would in turn, increase their chances at landing in Gold, Platinum or Master rank in their current Map tier. Maybe this could work... feel free to add on or adjust as this is merely off the hip.

    Forcing the top tier to deal with upper echelon nodes AND Defense Tactics next season will likely result in some burnout and retirements. I could be wrong. It might bring the luster back... but I doubt it. I guess we'll see in a couple weeks. On that note, to those that are participating, best of luck this Season in the meantime.
  • synergy247synergy247 Posts: 285
    Always appreciate your feedback @SiriusBreak always insightful and constructive. What part of the world do you hail from?
  • Eastern US. Specifically Buffalo, NY. A strange little city in Western NY state. It's the weirdest blend of people. We're known as the 'city of good neighbors.' Which is very true. People look out for eachother around here, yet manage to find a way to keep to themselves all the same. So if you're in a less than ideal situation, someone is bound to help you. However, gossip is relatively low in the city as people have better things to do than cause drama, lol. So yeah, it's engrained in me 😉
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,746 ★★★★★

    Eastern US. Specifically Buffalo, NY. A strange little city in Western NY state. It's the weirdest blend of people. We're known as the 'city of good neighbors.' Which is very true. People look out for eachother around here, yet manage to find a way to keep to themselves all the same. So if you're in a less than ideal situation, someone is bound to help you. However, gossip is relatively low in the city as people have better things to do than cause drama, lol. So yeah, it's engrained in me 😉

    You're fairly close to where I am. Look up. ;)
  • synergy247synergy247 Posts: 285
    Well I’m an Aussie here in Melbourne Vic looks like we’re in a similar vein anyway 😜
  • synergy247synergy247 Posts: 285

    DNA3000 said:

    All in all, it's a bit of a mess. However, there's 2 weeks left in this Season. So in 2 weeks, hopefully we'll be enlightened upon the upcoming rewards. That could be the carrot everyone needs to get back into the swing. If it's not... well... we'll see how everyone responds then now won't we? I will say they made it much more manageable than the 1st iteration of the Map we initially received. So perhaps in time, the majority will adjust, the rewards will be appealing (enough to try anyway), and AW will be less of a pariah.

    I don't think rewards are the solution, in fact they are a part of the problem. There has to be some balance between difficulty and rewards, but that balance is a relative balance. You play the game to play the game, not because the rewards are a suitable bribe to play the game. If you have to be bribed to play the game, the game is already a permanent failure for you. Rewards present the player with a choice as to where they spend their time in-game and how they choose to navigate the progress ladder. But rewards do not make the game more fun.

    The problem is you cannot compensate for unpalatable gameplay with more rewards. What you end up doing is taking something players don't want to do and force them to do it because the rewards are too high to pass up.

    I think if rewards are increased participation will go up, but unhappiness will also go up: that increased participation won't be a sign of improvement in the system.
    Oh I wholeheartedly agree @DNA3000 . I'm not convinced the reward increse will legitimately 'fix' the situation. I'm just acknowledging that it 'may' be enough to increase participation, and get some more competitive results. On the flipside, you're probably right. More people will likely be unhappy in general. Stress levels will likely increase. ESPECIALLY due to Defense Tactics. I was mainly stating how our Alliance is handling the situation as it stands. My view is this, if we can't elicit the changes desired, best to be prepared for what's coming if we wish to remain competitive.

    I want to say maybe a new game mode would help, but then I start remembering certain aspects of the community and how they responds to things. Pro, it could bring new desire to play. Con, some Alliances would undoubtedly try to run all 3 things and player burn out would likely increase. Pro, new mode, different rewards (theoretically). Con, the fringe players as they're called would likely find way to exploit the new mode. Which then leads to another Con, yet another mode they have to maintain (i.e. more bugs to deal with). I'm sure there's many more bullet points for both sides. Those are the 1st to come to mind.

    Even if they did a secondary Map situation as recently mentioned by @synergy247 , it's hard to say whether that would be a plus or a minus. Then again, maybe we take that 1 step further. Imagine if you will, a 3 Map AW situation. The OG Map, the final iteration of the second Map (the last one we dealt with prior to the current), and the new one. For the Season, your Alliance locks into one of them and competes with other Alliances in that Map tier. Each Map tier would have individual Season reward Tiers. This would open the door for lower Alliances to compete for better rewards on an easier Map, or try their luck at a harder Map with top notch rewards. Or allow mid to upper tier Alliances to dial back on an easier map, but still compete for relatively decent rewards.

    The original AW Map would be the lowest rewards. The 2nd iteration would keep the current version of the Season rewards. The 3rd get a new, higher tier reward system. Granted this is all hypothetical and has room for growth. Giving players options might be key to bringing some fun back to AW. It would undoubtedly help many Alliances as it being tiered per Map, they're fighting against a smaller group of Alliances vs going against them all. Which would in turn, increase their chances at landing in Gold, Platinum or Master rank in their current Map tier. Maybe this could work... feel free to add on or adjust as this is merely off the hip.

    Forcing the top tier to deal with upper echelon nodes AND Defense Tactics next season will likely result in some burnout and retirements. I could be wrong. It might bring the luster back... but I doubt it. I guess we'll see in a couple weeks. On that note, to those that are participating, best of luck this Season in the meantime.
    Well said. With my idea I am not sure if it is even feasible to have alternate maps but a lot of problems in this game do tend to arise when we’re forced into certain choices if we want to compete. This creates a sense of disillusionment and being stifled so giving more options would allow more flexibility to tailor war participation to your desired level.

    We’ve seen precedents for flexibility which were great improvements and well received, such as for AQ allowing each BG to have a different Map to suit them each day of the week.

    On the flip side we’ve also seen the consternation with AW enlistment whereby we’re no longer able to choose our own start time and instead locked in so that international alliances are greatly disadvantaged. As we get closer to season cutoff I would like to see confirmation of the rewards bump for next season also and what start date it will be, and whether the intention is still to implement defence tactics on the current map...
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