However those suggesting a 6* arena over 5* basic definitely have it wrong. If the people who've already been spending loads had a cheaper more targeted way of getting a 6* featured by just burning less units on arena refreshes than they're spending on crystals, that's what they'd do. Kabam would lose a ton of revenue
I could spend 2k in cav crystals and still not get the featured 6* but I could spend probably a quarter of that and put up 100m in the arena fairly easily
I wasn't aware that the Arena was supposed to be updated according to time. That's not exactly something that has a shelf life. It's a question of where the game is at, and just the same as people ask for a 6* Crystal in the Dungeon, I don't believe we're close to the point that a 6* Arena is appropriate. A 5* Basic Arena, perhaps in the not-so-distant/not-so-immediate future.
Why iSint 6* arena appropriate ? Wouldn’t you like the opportunity to get your self a guaranteed 6* champ to help you progress In the game ? Which can probably help you clear LOL / act 6 or variant.
Players playing the game always want better champs , while you seem to oppose it , even though you do play the game as well , don’t you ?
Would I like an opportunity? I think most people would. That doesn't mean the game is at the point where it's appropriate.
Why would you think about what’s appropriate and not ? Shouldn’t you as a player be concerned with your benefit , all the more if you are f2p
I care about the game. Not just what benefits me. I'm not F2P, but that has nothing to do with it. There are many things I would like, but the overall health of the game is more of a priority than what I want. So when it comes to changes or introducing new aspects, my first thought is to apply it to what effect it will have to the game overall, to the best that my knowledge can reason.
So great that we have big brains in the community like you who think about the consequences of updating content. A 5* basic arena where F2P players can grind for a specific 5* champion would break the game, but Cavalier Crystals which allow the whales to spend thousands of dollars to unlock new 6* champions are fine. Wait...
This is the crux of the issue. Cavs broke the game, there is no denying it or going back as it's funded the game. Adding more arenas won't break the game or lead to the destruction of our rosters like some like to write theses after theses on. updating arens will actually help the ballance. No, most won't be able to get the champ out right, but they will be able to get the milestones that will have to include 5* and 6* shards to build their roster to keep up w/o dropping Odins on Cavs.
If you're arguing against an update to arenas you're just simply wrong and there is no point in discussing it.
There's a fundamental difference between Cavalier crystals and a hypothetical 5* basic arena, and that's the obvious: Cavalier crystals are only available to Cavalier players. Cavalier players have higher demands on their 5* and 6* rosters than most players, deliberately engineered so by the Act 6 design. That means the impact of Cavalier crystals on the subset of players that can get them is different from the impact on a wider availability basic 5* arena on the full range of everyone who could theoretically participate in it.
I'm not saying Cav crystals do or do not "break the game" because that's a silly phrase that doesn't mean anything most of the time. Cav crystals changed the game, just like many things change the game, but that change is focused on a subset of players for whom that change is moderated: they significantly increased the ability to gain 5* champs, but they also increased the need for 5* champs in Act 6. That means the actual demand for 5* champs is probably still higher for Cavalier players on average than for players below that mark, even factoring in Cav crystals.
The idea of "keeping up" is equally silly, if you actually know how games like this work. When 6* champs first arrived it was literally impossible to rank them higher than rank 2, the rough equivalent of rank 5. A lot of players thought that was stupid: why couldn't 6* champs exceed 5* champs? Wasn't that the whole reason for them existing? Well, no, it wasn't. 6* champs *eventually* are meant to do that, but initially they were just meant to allow high tier players to have something expensive to spend their time and money on. Only recently has T5C started to trickle out. Why not just release T6B and T6C now, at least in small amounts? What are they waiting for?
For people to "catch up" that's what. The reason the top tier players don't have the ability to earn T6B and T6C in any amounts whatsoever has nothing to do with them, and everything to do with the rest of us. They won't get to do that, until we "catch up" enough. And when we get within some range of them on average, they will. That's what Kabam is waiting for. The top guys get to go higher than the rest of us as soon as we get close enough to them. And we collectively get closer every day.
If you're a top tier roster player, someone with a two million rating and a ton of 6* champs, what you want more than anything else is probably a 5* basic arena. You should want one even more than you want a 6* arena. Because a 6* arena only gets you a few more 6* champs. A 5* basic arena gets you T6 basic catalysts. That's how this works.
But if you're not one of those players, then what a 5* basic arena eventually gets you, and you'll get this eventually but now you'll get it sooner, is other players walking around with rank 3 and rank 4 6* champions and content designed to challenge them arriving in the game. Something you won't have.
Some people are fine with that. I'm actually fine with that. I'm a grinder, which means these kinds of proposed changes will generally benefit me a great deal. But power is relative in this game: anything that directly benefits me a great deal is going to disadvantage someone else: probably by a lot in the long run. In any case I'm just saying what game developers rarely say directly, but basically always do. And I'm not claiming to be some super genius that's figured this out. This is common knowledge in the free to play world.
I'm pretty sure they filtered the demographic who have access to the Cavs so it wouldn't break the game. Not everyone has access to them. Even less people have thousands at their disposal to spend on them. There are limiting factors that keep access isolated and controlled. They're not flooding the game in some way that's blown the Meta.
You're very mistaken if you think that cav crystals haven't created a serious gap between heavy spenders and f2p or occasional spenders in the top tier alliances
This is why I say it is difficult to talk to someone who doesn't understand the mid to end game. The Cav crystals are the biggest thing to hit the game since 12.0.
Also, I clarified and I said the 5 star drop rate for featured cavalier crystals is 17.5% which is the portion I believe that broke the game. I pay huge attention to the hero ratings and who's at the top. I went from a top 2000 roster down to 3,400 in just a couple months because so many people rosters expanded from Cavaliers.
Also, I clarified and I said the 5 star drop rate for featured cavalier crystals is 17.5% which is the portion I believe that broke the game. I pay huge attention to the hero ratings and who's at the top. I went from a top 2000 roster down to 3,400 in just a couple months because so many people rosters expanded from Cavaliers.
The featured Cavs don't drop more value than the basics: they just offer a slightly better shot at the newer champs. In terms of roster building, aside from shooting for a particular great new champ the basic Cavs and the featured Cavs are actually basically tied.
The basic Cav has a 1% chance for 6* and 11% chance for 5*. The Featured Cav has a 1.5% chance for 6* and a 17.5% chance for 5*. So on the surface it looks like the featured Cav as a 50% better chance for 6* and a slightly better than 50% chance for 5*, for 50% more units. That seems better. But this doesn't factor in shards from duplication.
To make the math simple, let's compare what you can buy with 60,000 units. The comparison works with any amount of units, but this just eliminates a lot of fractions. That's 300 basic and 200 featured Cavs. The basic on average would drop 3 6* champs, 33 5* champs, 114 4* champs, and 150 3* champs. The featured on average would drop 3 6* champs, 35 5* champs, 72 4* champ, and 90 3* champs. So focusing on the 5* and 6* champs, the featured drops two more 5* champs (and the same number of 6* champs.
But look at the difference in 4* champs. The basic drops 42 more 4* champs than the featured. How many shards is that? It depends on whether you have the 4* champs already and they are max rank. *If* your 4* champs are max rank the highest shard amount you can get is 23100 5* shards, which is basically two more 5* champs. Of course if you get that occasional non-shard drop or if your 4* champs aren't at max rank you'll get less, but it is still likely to be close.
Bottom line, it looks on the surface like the featured Cav's 17.5% chance at 5* generates a significantly larger amount of 5* champs in the long run, but in terms of 5* champs for the same amount of units the basic Cav was already dropping almost the same amount of 5* value as the featured Cav does now. And for some people, especially those that have maxed out all their 4* champs, the basic could actually be dropping slightly more value - specifically more 5* champs overall, factoring in 5* shards.
If anything, I think the featured Cav *looks* better to many people and when it looks better, more people buy it, and that might explain why the featured Cav had a larger impact on top tier rosters than the basic one did.
Also, I clarified and I said the 5 star drop rate for featured cavalier crystals is 17.5% which is the portion I believe that broke the game. I pay huge attention to the hero ratings and who's at the top. I went from a top 2000 roster down to 3,400 in just a couple months because so many people rosters expanded from Cavaliers.
The featured Cavs don't drop more value than the basics: they just offer a slightly better shot at the newer champs. In terms of roster building, aside from shooting for a particular great new champ the basic Cavs and the featured Cavs are actually basically tied.
The basic Cav has a 1% chance for 6* and 11% chance for 5*. The Featured Cav has a 1.5% chance for 6* and a 17.5% chance for 5*. So on the surface it looks like the featured Cav as a 50% better chance for 6* and a slightly better than 50% chance for 5*, for 50% more units. That seems better. But this doesn't factor in shards from duplication.
To make the math simple, let's compare what you can buy with 60,000 units. The comparison works with any amount of units, but this just eliminates a lot of fractions. That's 300 basic and 200 featured Cavs. The basic on average would drop 3 6* champs, 33 5* champs, 114 4* champs, and 150 3* champs. The featured on average would drop 3 6* champs, 35 5* champs, 72 4* champ, and 90 3* champs. So focusing on the 5* and 6* champs, the featured drops two more 5* champs (and the same number of 6* champs.
But look at the difference in 4* champs. The basic drops 42 more 4* champs than the featured. How many shards is that? It depends on whether you have the 4* champs already and they are max rank. *If* your 4* champs are max rank the highest shard amount you can get is 23100 5* shards, which is basically two more 5* champs. Of course if you get that occasional non-shard drop or if your 4* champs aren't at max rank you'll get less, but it is still likely to be close.
Bottom line, it looks on the surface like the featured Cav's 17.5% chance at 5* generates a significantly larger amount of 5* champs in the long run, but in terms of 5* champs for the same amount of units the basic Cav was already dropping almost the same amount of 5* value as the featured Cav does now. And for some people, especially those that have maxed out all their 4* champs, the basic could actually be dropping slightly more value - specifically more 5* champs overall, factoring in 5* shards.
If anything, I think the featured Cav *looks* better to many people and when it looks better, more people buy it, and that might explain why the featured Cav had a larger impact on top tier rosters than the basic one did.
My point was that Cavaliers broke the game and we both agree. The difference between featured or basic Cavalier is not that significant for us to argue between the two. I appreciate the very thorough explanation and now I know a lot more about drop rates than I ever could've asked for.
Also, I clarified and I said the 5 star drop rate for featured cavalier crystals is 17.5% which is the portion I believe that broke the game. I pay huge attention to the hero ratings and who's at the top. I went from a top 2000 roster down to 3,400 in just a couple months because so many people rosters expanded from Cavaliers.
The featured Cavs don't drop more value than the basics: they just offer a slightly better shot at the newer champs. In terms of roster building, aside from shooting for a particular great new champ the basic Cavs and the featured Cavs are actually basically tied.
The basic Cav has a 1% chance for 6* and 11% chance for 5*. The Featured Cav has a 1.5% chance for 6* and a 17.5% chance for 5*. So on the surface it looks like the featured Cav as a 50% better chance for 6* and a slightly better than 50% chance for 5*, for 50% more units. That seems better. But this doesn't factor in shards from duplication.
To make the math simple, let's compare what you can buy with 60,000 units. The comparison works with any amount of units, but this just eliminates a lot of fractions. That's 300 basic and 200 featured Cavs. The basic on average would drop 3 6* champs, 33 5* champs, 114 4* champs, and 150 3* champs. The featured on average would drop 3 6* champs, 35 5* champs, 72 4* champ, and 90 3* champs. So focusing on the 5* and 6* champs, the featured drops two more 5* champs (and the same number of 6* champs.
But look at the difference in 4* champs. The basic drops 42 more 4* champs than the featured. How many shards is that? It depends on whether you have the 4* champs already and they are max rank. *If* your 4* champs are max rank the highest shard amount you can get is 23100 5* shards, which is basically two more 5* champs. Of course if you get that occasional non-shard drop or if your 4* champs aren't at max rank you'll get less, but it is still likely to be close.
Bottom line, it looks on the surface like the featured Cav's 17.5% chance at 5* generates a significantly larger amount of 5* champs in the long run, but in terms of 5* champs for the same amount of units the basic Cav was already dropping almost the same amount of 5* value as the featured Cav does now. And for some people, especially those that have maxed out all their 4* champs, the basic could actually be dropping slightly more value - specifically more 5* champs overall, factoring in 5* shards.
If anything, I think the featured Cav *looks* better to many people and when it looks better, more people buy it, and that might explain why the featured Cav had a larger impact on top tier rosters than the basic one did.
My point was that Cavaliers broke the game and we both agree. The difference between featured or basic Cavalier is not that significant for us to argue between the two. I appreciate the very thorough explanation and now I know a lot more about drop rates than I ever could've asked for.
They had a significant impact on the game: I was one of the few people it seemed to be suggesting that Cav crystals were extremely good value for roster building when they first came out (many people straight up called that a crazy notion). But again: I'm not saying they "broke" the game. It depends on how much advantage you think it is fair to buy, keeping in mind some people think any advantage is too much to buy, but unless the game starts selling thousand dollar hats for Venom the Duck spenders will always have some kind of advantage.
To really simplify things, that 60k unit example ends up getting, on average, about 42-ish "high tier" champs - 5* or 6*. That means each "5* or higher" champ is costing, on average, about 1400 units. That's about 45 dollars US. Of course, you can buy Cav with units you grind, but in terms of spending cash over and above anything you earn in the game, 45 bucks gets you a 5* (or 6*) champ.
Question: is that a "game-breaking" advantage? Given the game has to sell stuff, and given you can grind units, I don't think that's a huge advantage for cash, but that's just my personal opinion. If anything, I think that actually gives hard core arena grinders more value for their grinding than before, relative to spending.
I'm pretty sure they filtered the demographic who have access to the Cavs so it wouldn't break the game. Not everyone has access to them. Even less people have thousands at their disposal to spend on them. There are limiting factors that keep access isolated and controlled. They're not flooding the game in some way that's blown the Meta.
You're very mistaken if you think that cav crystals haven't created a serious gap between heavy spenders and f2p or occasional spenders in the top tier alliances
I really wish people would stop pretending there isn't already a gap. People who spend more are going to progress more. That's just how it is. This whole idea that people are fighting that gap really needs to be checked because none of us are going to catch up to people with thousands of dollars at their disposal on a regular basis. We can progress at our own pace, but we'll never go head-to-head with them. That's just a fact.
I'm pretty sure they filtered the demographic who have access to the Cavs so it wouldn't break the game. Not everyone has access to them. Even less people have thousands at their disposal to spend on them. There are limiting factors that keep access isolated and controlled. They're not flooding the game in some way that's blown the Meta.
You're very mistaken if you think that cav crystals haven't created a serious gap between heavy spenders and f2p or occasional spenders in the top tier alliances
I don’t know how anyone can disagree with this comment.
Compare Seatins roster from now, and then take away all those dupes, 5/6* champs from Cavs, and it won’t be near as good.
Not a pop at Seatin, but just saying, Cavs have created a ridiculously huge gap
Yeah I'm not going to argue that point anymore. If you don't see it then you just don't want to see it.
Back on topic, 6 star arena would be nice and bring a much needed refresh to arena. After act 6.4 comes out early next year Kabam will need to make some major updates to the game. I'm assuming that we will get access to r3 6 star after the completion of 6.4. No excuse not to have a 6 star arena after that.
I'm pretty sure they filtered the demographic who have access to the Cavs so it wouldn't break the game. Not everyone has access to them. Even less people have thousands at their disposal to spend on them. There are limiting factors that keep access isolated and controlled. They're not flooding the game in some way that's blown the Meta.
You're very mistaken if you think that cav crystals haven't created a serious gap between heavy spenders and f2p or occasional spenders in the top tier alliances
I don’t know how anyone can disagree with this comment.
Compare Seatins roster from now, and then take away all those dupes, 5/6* champs from Cavs, and it won’t be near as good.
Not a pop at Seatin, but just saying, Cavs have created a ridiculously huge gap
When I compare my roster to Seatin's roster from before Cav crystals were introduced and then again now, of course Seatin has had a lot more pulls than before. But no one cares about a gap in pulls, they care about a gap in actual roster strength. Is his roster stronger than mine? Absolutely. But it was stronger before Cavs. Is the gap in strength higher now than before? I'm not sure it is. There is a fair amount of diminishing returns on roster strength. Having twice as many champions, or twice as many 5* champs, or even twice as many rank 5 champions, isn't always twice as much strength. If you have two and I have one, that's important. If you have eighty and I have forty, that matters but probably not as much. And at some point most pulls become dups and not new champs, and things slow down even further.
Personally, I don't feel like I'm falling way behind players like Seatin and COW who are spending large, and gigantic amounts of cash. Yes they get more pulls, but those pulls aren't all equating to major advances in roster strength, because they are running up against the limits of what you can do at all with unlimited effort. To emphasize: I am behind, I was behind, I always will be behind. But I don't see Cav crystals taking those players places I can't go relatively soon after.
If I judge where I am against where they are based on content, I'm not extremely far behind. In fact, the only reason why I'm still working on Variant and 6.2 is specifically because, ironically enough, I don't want to spend on the content. If I chose to spend, I'd be done. But that's also pointless to me: there's nothing to do past that point. So I'm mostly behind by choice, not because someone is opening more Cav crystals than me. And if I'm being honest, I'm also behind because I'm not quite as good at playing the game. If I handed any of the top tier players my roster, they'd be done with all the content as well without buying tons of Cav crystals.
So if there's a "huge" gap between my roster and the big spenders, it is a gap that you can't really currently measure with the content in the game. At least, none of the single player content.
I've read all of these posts, with interesting/differing points of view.
Where I stand: Do something, anything, to revitalize Sunday arenas.
There has to be SOMETHING there that can be done. Something fun, something fast, something that gives the player base energy and excitement.
I think this game is really good. I think there are amazing things that happen within the game.
But Sundays are just horrific. Stale. Boring.
I think you can like the game and still acknowledge when something is flawed.
What I would want to see is something creative. Why not be creative for one day of the week?
Something like, I don't know....2-hour Arenas for exclusive 2-stars. 4-hour Arenas for 4-stars. 5-hour Arenas for a maximum of 5,000 5-star shards and a minimum of 1,000 shards for hitting all milestones. 6-hour Arenas for maximum of 3,000 6-star shards and a minimum of 1,000 shards, for hitting all milestones
lol, having twice as many r5 isn't that big of an advantage? How can anyone say such garbage and believe it. Just look at how much trouble BG's been having going through 6.2. Yes I know much of it is because he's doing it item less but his limited roster has made many paths/bosses much harder then they would be if he had the champs Seatin does from Cavs.
And saying you'r almost where the top players are right now is a bit silly at this state in the game. We're at a stalling point with no way to rank champs any higher. Once we can r3 champs, the flood gates will open once again, like when r5s came about. The top guys who get a full prestige list of r3s are going to dominate AQ for months and months until lower players catch up again.
Top spenders have a lot of 6*s at sig200 which at r2 blows away 5* prestige and is basically un-catchable unless you're a huge whale.
True. But did I ever have a chance to catch the whales in prestige before?
The biggest advantage of high prestige are the AQ rewards. But only the top prestige alliances get those, and it doesn't matter how much higher they are: it is all about rank, not prestige gap. So if Cav crystals are "game breaking" because top spenders get a lot of 6* champs, why aren't things like map 7 and the updated AQ rewards equally game breaking? After all, that's the ultimate goal of high prestige. If those weren't updated to be higher, no amount of higher prestige would have meant anything.
One thing I can only speculate about, just an opinion:
I can see both sides of the argument about Cavalier crystals, as well. But my thought is this: Are enough people Cavalier to really break this game?
I am a decent enough player. Been a solo player for years now, which does limit my ability to acquire high-end materials for progression. But I still have an 800K-plus roster and if I wanted to throw money at content to clear it, I could.
That's where I agree with DNA's point: You have to understand that at some point, if you clear everything the game has to offer, where else do you go? I'm fine with my roster strength. It could always be better. But now that I'm starting to dupe a few more useful characters, I feel good about where I am.
I know there are better players than me, people who spend more than I do, who have better rosters and/or cleared more content. I know I need a bit more roster strength before I do real damage in Act 6.
But at some point, if a person is Cavalier and popping featureds from those, getting more 6-stars...at some point, yeah, those people have more/better characters than me. There's fun in getting new characters.
But at some point, there's nothing left to do. Popping crystals is fine if you actually have something to DO with them.
Are there really enough Cavalier players in this game to shift the balance to where if you're not Cavalier, you are at a horrific disadvantage?
In terms of arena, yep. But we do have to be careful about burn out. Players complain about burn out all the time. It is always ultimately their fault unless they are forced to play the game in a Chinese labor camp, but it is still the game's problem if its players burn out and quit. So I'm not sure Sunday isn't deliberately horrible, so arena grinders are all but forced to take a day off. After all we have one day a week off of war and three days a cycle off of AQ. We could try to fill those days with non-boring stuff, but maybe we need boring days occasionally.
That doesn't mean we can't do interesting things, just maybe keep the day off and add interesting things to the other days of the week. Also keep in mind that even though the arena is a literally unlimited fountain of gold, there's apparently a gold shortage. Every time you put a good reward in the arena, you're going to be "punishing" non-grinders.
lol, having twice as many r5 isn't that big of an advantage? How can anyone say such garbage and believe it. Just look at how much trouble BG's been having going through 6.2. Yes I know much of it is because he's doing it item less but his limited roster has made many paths/bosses much harder then they would be if he had the champs Seatin does from Cavs.
So how much stronger would you say Seatin's roster is compared to Brian's? Twice as strong? Ten times as strong? Let's put a number on this "huge" gap that's supposed to be there. Seatin has spent, well, an infinite times more money, since Brian's spent zero, but let's just magically assume Brian spends a thousand dollars tomorrow. Seatin will have spent twenty times more than that. Is his roster twenty times stronger? Because I'm assuming since you're responding to my post calling it "garbage" that's what you're claiming, since I was claiming the opposite.
Plus, citing his itemless runs at all, and then dismissing that as not being the overwhelming cause of the rate of his progress through 6.2, pretty much eliminates your credibility in calling any idea garbage. That's borderline idiotic. And on the wrong side of the border.
lol, having twice as many r5 isn't that big of an advantage? How can anyone say such garbage and believe it. Just look at how much trouble BG's been having going through 6.2. Yes I know much of it is because he's doing it item less but his limited roster has made many paths/bosses much harder then they would be if he had the champs Seatin does from Cavs.
So how much stronger would you say Seatin's roster is compared to Brian's? Twice as strong? Ten times as strong? Let's put a number on this "huge" gap that's supposed to be there. Seatin has spent, well, an infinite times more money, since Brian's spent zero, but let's just magically assume Brian spends a thousand dollars tomorrow. Seatin will have spent twenty times more than that. Is his roster twenty times stronger? Because I'm assuming since you're responding to my post calling it "garbage" that's what you're claiming, since I was claiming the opposite.
Plus, citing his itemless runs at all, and then dismissing that as not being the overwhelming cause of the rate of his progress through 6.2, pretty much eliminates your credibility in calling any idea garbage. That's borderline idiotic. And on the wrong side of the border.
Having nearly every champ at 5* our 6* is a huge advantage in act 6. Have you watched any of BGs 6.2 runs? How many times did he get to Sinister with full champs only to have to exit out because he had no Heimdal? How many times has he tried the tech path in 6.2.5 and he still hasn't beaten it because no Ghost?
That doesn't even touch him being in the bottom 5 in 4loki prestige for basically ever. He's lucky he's a great guy and they don't kick for that like many other top allys.
I've made the same point in the Sigil Thread as I'll make here. People who spend will have more. Now, BG has made it abundantly clear that it's not necessary to spend to go up, but there's always going to be some kind of advantage to spending. That's what people are buying.
lol, having twice as many r5 isn't that big of an advantage? How can anyone say such garbage and believe it. Just look at how much trouble BG's been having going through 6.2. Yes I know much of it is because he's doing it item less but his limited roster has made many paths/bosses much harder then they would be if he had the champs Seatin does from Cavs.
So how much stronger would you say Seatin's roster is compared to Brian's? Twice as strong? Ten times as strong? Let's put a number on this "huge" gap that's supposed to be there. Seatin has spent, well, an infinite times more money, since Brian's spent zero, but let's just magically assume Brian spends a thousand dollars tomorrow. Seatin will have spent twenty times more than that. Is his roster twenty times stronger? Because I'm assuming since you're responding to my post calling it "garbage" that's what you're claiming, since I was claiming the opposite.
Plus, citing his itemless runs at all, and then dismissing that as not being the overwhelming cause of the rate of his progress through 6.2, pretty much eliminates your credibility in calling any idea garbage. That's borderline idiotic. And on the wrong side of the border.
Having nearly every champ at 5* our 6* is a huge advantage in act 6. Have you watched any of BGs 6.2 runs? How many times did he get to Sinister with full champs only to have to exit out because he had no Heimdal? How many times has he tried the tech path in 6.2.5 and he still hasn't beaten it because no Ghost?
That doesn't even touch him being in the bottom 5 in 4loki prestige for basically ever. He's lucky he's a great guy and they don't kick for that like many other top allys.
Lots of words doesn't make a bad argument good.
Of course lots of words don't make a bad argument good. None of yours seem to help at all, since they aren't even an argument: they are more of a combination of hand waving and undirected exasperation. So of course more of them won't make the position significantly better.
You keep saying having more champs is a huge advantage in act 6. However, that's unsubstantiated. Most people don't use a huge number of *different* champs. Having too few is a disadvantage: most would agree. But you'd be hard pressed to find a lot of people who think having more than what you need offers some additional advantage. Once you have a team that can do it, having even better champs that can do it is an advantage, but a relatively small one. You seem to be having an imaginary argument with someone in your own head who is claiming there's no advantage to having additional champs. Which are probably the only arguments you consistently win. But no one here is making that argument. Maybe instead of counting the words you should be reading them instead.
And while I can't comment on the prestige situation is in 4loki, you're arguing that the huge, massive, practically game breaking penalty being placed upon Brian is that he's in the bottom five of one of the highest ranking alliances in the game.
If life was full of penalties like that, I'd be spending more on the game than COW.
lol, having twice as many r5 isn't that big of an advantage? How can anyone say such garbage and believe it. Just look at how much trouble BG's been having going through 6.2. Yes I know much of it is because he's doing it item less but his limited roster has made many paths/bosses much harder then they would be if he had the champs Seatin does from Cavs.
So how much stronger would you say Seatin's roster is compared to Brian's? Twice as strong? Ten times as strong? Let's put a number on this "huge" gap that's supposed to be there. Seatin has spent, well, an infinite times more money, since Brian's spent zero, but let's just magically assume Brian spends a thousand dollars tomorrow. Seatin will have spent twenty times more than that. Is his roster twenty times stronger? Because I'm assuming since you're responding to my post calling it "garbage" that's what you're claiming, since I was claiming the opposite.
Plus, citing his itemless runs at all, and then dismissing that as not being the overwhelming cause of the rate of his progress through 6.2, pretty much eliminates your credibility in calling any idea garbage. That's borderline idiotic. And on the wrong side of the border.
Having nearly every champ at 5* our 6* is a huge advantage in act 6. Have you watched any of BGs 6.2 runs? How many times did he get to Sinister with full champs only to have to exit out because he had no Heimdal? How many times has he tried the tech path in 6.2.5 and he still hasn't beaten it because no Ghost?
That doesn't even touch him being in the bottom 5 in 4loki prestige for basically ever. He's lucky he's a great guy and they don't kick for that like many other top allys.
Lots of words doesn't make a bad argument good.
Of course lots of words don't make a bad argument good. None of yours seem to help at all, since they aren't even an argument: they are more of a combination of hand waving and undirected exasperation. So of course more of them won't make the position significantly better.
You keep saying having more champs is a huge advantage in act 6. However, that's unsubstantiated. Most people don't use a huge number of *different* champs. Having too few is a disadvantage: most would agree. But you'd be hard pressed to find a lot of people who think having more than what you need offers some additional advantage. Once you have a team that can do it, having even better champs that can do it is an advantage, but a relatively small one. You seem to be having an imaginary argument with someone in your own head who is claiming there's no advantage to having additional champs. Which are probably the only arguments you consistently win. But no one here is making that argument. Maybe instead of counting the words you should be reading them instead.
And while I can't comment on the prestige situation is in 4loki, you're arguing that the huge, massive, practically game breaking penalty being placed upon Brian is that he's in the bottom five of one of the highest ranking alliances in the game.
If life was full of penalties like that, I'd be spending more on the game than COW.
So you're saying that people with only a small number of ranked up champs don't use a huge number of *different* champs? What a compelling statement. It's no wonder you haven't completed 6.2 and V3 if you don't see the need of a diverse roster.
Awesome point about being low prestige in 4loki. I guess most people who's job it is to play the game should hope to have lower prestige then many people in plat allys and almost all your peers in master.
Top spenders have a lot of 6*s at sig200 which at r2 blows away 5* prestige and is basically un-catchable unless you're a huge whale.
True. But did I ever have a chance to catch the whales in prestige before?
The biggest advantage of high prestige are the AQ rewards. But only the top prestige alliances get those, and it doesn't matter how much higher they are: it is all about rank, not prestige gap. So if Cav crystals are "game breaking" because top spenders get a lot of 6* champs, why aren't things like map 7 and the updated AQ rewards equally game breaking? After all, that's the ultimate goal of high prestige. If those weren't updated to be higher, no amount of higher prestige would have meant anything.
Yes before 6*s everyone in higher tiers had a chance to catch whales. You could rank for prestige and use your sig stones on the champs. I was in a top 10 AQ ally and my prestige was higher than most in the top ally. Prestige needs to change as there is no way with the current system to even compete with whale prestige. Having sig 200 rank 2s that you have to spend 50k-100k to get means no one is coming close anytime soon. Before we could at least compete now theres no competition. R2s shouldn't have had higher prestige than r5 5*s. Rank 3s should've. Kabam made an oopsie on that. Whales will always be near the top but this is too much of an advantage in my opinion which you don't have to agree with.
So you're saying that people with only a small number of ranked up champs don't use a huge number of *different* champs?
Not only did I not say that, I'm not completely sure what you mean when you say it.
lol, it really isn't hard to understand. You're "arguing" that lots of r5's don't matter because people don't use a huge number of *different* champs. That's a garbage argument because it assumes that they would continue to only use a small number of champs if they had more options. You know what they say about people who assume.
Comments
I'm not saying Cav crystals do or do not "break the game" because that's a silly phrase that doesn't mean anything most of the time. Cav crystals changed the game, just like many things change the game, but that change is focused on a subset of players for whom that change is moderated: they significantly increased the ability to gain 5* champs, but they also increased the need for 5* champs in Act 6. That means the actual demand for 5* champs is probably still higher for Cavalier players on average than for players below that mark, even factoring in Cav crystals.
The idea of "keeping up" is equally silly, if you actually know how games like this work. When 6* champs first arrived it was literally impossible to rank them higher than rank 2, the rough equivalent of rank 5. A lot of players thought that was stupid: why couldn't 6* champs exceed 5* champs? Wasn't that the whole reason for them existing? Well, no, it wasn't. 6* champs *eventually* are meant to do that, but initially they were just meant to allow high tier players to have something expensive to spend their time and money on. Only recently has T5C started to trickle out. Why not just release T6B and T6C now, at least in small amounts? What are they waiting for?
For people to "catch up" that's what. The reason the top tier players don't have the ability to earn T6B and T6C in any amounts whatsoever has nothing to do with them, and everything to do with the rest of us. They won't get to do that, until we "catch up" enough. And when we get within some range of them on average, they will. That's what Kabam is waiting for. The top guys get to go higher than the rest of us as soon as we get close enough to them. And we collectively get closer every day.
If you're a top tier roster player, someone with a two million rating and a ton of 6* champs, what you want more than anything else is probably a 5* basic arena. You should want one even more than you want a 6* arena. Because a 6* arena only gets you a few more 6* champs. A 5* basic arena gets you T6 basic catalysts. That's how this works.
But if you're not one of those players, then what a 5* basic arena eventually gets you, and you'll get this eventually but now you'll get it sooner, is other players walking around with rank 3 and rank 4 6* champions and content designed to challenge them arriving in the game. Something you won't have.
Some people are fine with that. I'm actually fine with that. I'm a grinder, which means these kinds of proposed changes will generally benefit me a great deal. But power is relative in this game: anything that directly benefits me a great deal is going to disadvantage someone else: probably by a lot in the long run. In any case I'm just saying what game developers rarely say directly, but basically always do. And I'm not claiming to be some super genius that's figured this out. This is common knowledge in the free to play world.
Also, I clarified and I said the 5 star drop rate for featured cavalier crystals is 17.5% which is the portion I believe that broke the game. I pay huge attention to the hero ratings and who's at the top. I went from a top 2000 roster down to 3,400 in just a couple months because so many people rosters expanded from Cavaliers.
The basic Cav has a 1% chance for 6* and 11% chance for 5*. The Featured Cav has a 1.5% chance for 6* and a 17.5% chance for 5*. So on the surface it looks like the featured Cav as a 50% better chance for 6* and a slightly better than 50% chance for 5*, for 50% more units. That seems better. But this doesn't factor in shards from duplication.
To make the math simple, let's compare what you can buy with 60,000 units. The comparison works with any amount of units, but this just eliminates a lot of fractions. That's 300 basic and 200 featured Cavs. The basic on average would drop 3 6* champs, 33 5* champs, 114 4* champs, and 150 3* champs. The featured on average would drop 3 6* champs, 35 5* champs, 72 4* champ, and 90 3* champs. So focusing on the 5* and 6* champs, the featured drops two more 5* champs (and the same number of 6* champs.
But look at the difference in 4* champs. The basic drops 42 more 4* champs than the featured. How many shards is that? It depends on whether you have the 4* champs already and they are max rank. *If* your 4* champs are max rank the highest shard amount you can get is 23100 5* shards, which is basically two more 5* champs. Of course if you get that occasional non-shard drop or if your 4* champs aren't at max rank you'll get less, but it is still likely to be close.
Bottom line, it looks on the surface like the featured Cav's 17.5% chance at 5* generates a significantly larger amount of 5* champs in the long run, but in terms of 5* champs for the same amount of units the basic Cav was already dropping almost the same amount of 5* value as the featured Cav does now. And for some people, especially those that have maxed out all their 4* champs, the basic could actually be dropping slightly more value - specifically more 5* champs overall, factoring in 5* shards.
If anything, I think the featured Cav *looks* better to many people and when it looks better, more people buy it, and that might explain why the featured Cav had a larger impact on top tier rosters than the basic one did.
To really simplify things, that 60k unit example ends up getting, on average, about 42-ish "high tier" champs - 5* or 6*. That means each "5* or higher" champ is costing, on average, about 1400 units. That's about 45 dollars US. Of course, you can buy Cav with units you grind, but in terms of spending cash over and above anything you earn in the game, 45 bucks gets you a 5* (or 6*) champ.
Question: is that a "game-breaking" advantage? Given the game has to sell stuff, and given you can grind units, I don't think that's a huge advantage for cash, but that's just my personal opinion. If anything, I think that actually gives hard core arena grinders more value for their grinding than before, relative to spending.
Compare Seatins roster from now, and then take away all those dupes, 5/6* champs from Cavs, and it won’t be near as good.
Not a pop at Seatin, but just saying, Cavs have created a ridiculously huge gap
Back on topic, 6 star arena would be nice and bring a much needed refresh to arena. After act 6.4 comes out early next year Kabam will need to make some major updates to the game. I'm assuming that we will get access to r3 6 star after the completion of 6.4. No excuse not to have a 6 star arena after that.
Personally, I don't feel like I'm falling way behind players like Seatin and COW who are spending large, and gigantic amounts of cash. Yes they get more pulls, but those pulls aren't all equating to major advances in roster strength, because they are running up against the limits of what you can do at all with unlimited effort. To emphasize: I am behind, I was behind, I always will be behind. But I don't see Cav crystals taking those players places I can't go relatively soon after.
If I judge where I am against where they are based on content, I'm not extremely far behind. In fact, the only reason why I'm still working on Variant and 6.2 is specifically because, ironically enough, I don't want to spend on the content. If I chose to spend, I'd be done. But that's also pointless to me: there's nothing to do past that point. So I'm mostly behind by choice, not because someone is opening more Cav crystals than me. And if I'm being honest, I'm also behind because I'm not quite as good at playing the game. If I handed any of the top tier players my roster, they'd be done with all the content as well without buying tons of Cav crystals.
So if there's a "huge" gap between my roster and the big spenders, it is a gap that you can't really currently measure with the content in the game. At least, none of the single player content.
PSA: Friendly Don't feed the SKRULLS!
Where I stand: Do something, anything, to revitalize Sunday arenas.
There has to be SOMETHING there that can be done. Something fun, something fast, something that gives the player base energy and excitement.
I think this game is really good. I think there are amazing things that happen within the game.
But Sundays are just horrific. Stale. Boring.
I think you can like the game and still acknowledge when something is flawed.
What I would want to see is something creative. Why not be creative for one day of the week?
Something like, I don't know....2-hour Arenas for exclusive 2-stars. 4-hour Arenas for 4-stars. 5-hour Arenas for a maximum of 5,000 5-star shards and a minimum of 1,000 shards for hitting all milestones. 6-hour Arenas for maximum of 3,000 6-star shards and a minimum of 1,000 shards, for hitting all milestones
My gosh. SOMETHING
And saying you'r almost where the top players are right now is a bit silly at this state in the game. We're at a stalling point with no way to rank champs any higher. Once we can r3 champs, the flood gates will open once again, like when r5s came about. The top guys who get a full prestige list of r3s are going to dominate AQ for months and months until lower players catch up again.
The biggest advantage of high prestige are the AQ rewards. But only the top prestige alliances get those, and it doesn't matter how much higher they are: it is all about rank, not prestige gap. So if Cav crystals are "game breaking" because top spenders get a lot of 6* champs, why aren't things like map 7 and the updated AQ rewards equally game breaking? After all, that's the ultimate goal of high prestige. If those weren't updated to be higher, no amount of higher prestige would have meant anything.
I can see both sides of the argument about Cavalier crystals, as well. But my thought is this: Are enough people Cavalier to really break this game?
I am a decent enough player. Been a solo player for years now, which does limit my ability to acquire high-end materials for progression. But I still have an 800K-plus roster and if I wanted to throw money at content to clear it, I could.
That's where I agree with DNA's point: You have to understand that at some point, if you clear everything the game has to offer, where else do you go? I'm fine with my roster strength. It could always be better. But now that I'm starting to dupe a few more useful characters, I feel good about where I am.
I know there are better players than me, people who spend more than I do, who have better rosters and/or cleared more content. I know I need a bit more roster strength before I do real damage in Act 6.
But at some point, if a person is Cavalier and popping featureds from those, getting more 6-stars...at some point, yeah, those people have more/better characters than me. There's fun in getting new characters.
But at some point, there's nothing left to do. Popping crystals is fine if you actually have something to DO with them.
Are there really enough Cavalier players in this game to shift the balance to where if you're not Cavalier, you are at a horrific disadvantage?
I don't know, either way. But I doubt it
That doesn't mean we can't do interesting things, just maybe keep the day off and add interesting things to the other days of the week. Also keep in mind that even though the arena is a literally unlimited fountain of gold, there's apparently a gold shortage. Every time you put a good reward in the arena, you're going to be "punishing" non-grinders.
Plus, citing his itemless runs at all, and then dismissing that as not being the overwhelming cause of the rate of his progress through 6.2, pretty much eliminates your credibility in calling any idea garbage. That's borderline idiotic. And on the wrong side of the border.
That doesn't even touch him being in the bottom 5 in 4loki prestige for basically ever. He's lucky he's a great guy and they don't kick for that like many other top allys.
Lots of words doesn't make a bad argument good.
You keep saying having more champs is a huge advantage in act 6. However, that's unsubstantiated. Most people don't use a huge number of *different* champs. Having too few is a disadvantage: most would agree. But you'd be hard pressed to find a lot of people who think having more than what you need offers some additional advantage. Once you have a team that can do it, having even better champs that can do it is an advantage, but a relatively small one. You seem to be having an imaginary argument with someone in your own head who is claiming there's no advantage to having additional champs. Which are probably the only arguments you consistently win. But no one here is making that argument. Maybe instead of counting the words you should be reading them instead.
And while I can't comment on the prestige situation is in 4loki, you're arguing that the huge, massive, practically game breaking penalty being placed upon Brian is that he's in the bottom five of one of the highest ranking alliances in the game.
If life was full of penalties like that, I'd be spending more on the game than COW.
Awesome point about being low prestige in 4loki. I guess most people who's job it is to play the game should hope to have lower prestige then many people in plat allys and almost all your peers in master.