@DNA3000 ok devils advocate, i ranked up SS thinking he would stagger 100% of the time like his spotlight and description stated. When this wasnt working properly it was reported as a bug. A year later they say its just a description error. Why am i pubished for believing what was written about the champ. Shehulk didnt have this ability in her description where SS did. SS still isnt working properly. R ppl just supposed to wait over a year to rank champs or use what they have hoping what appears to be bugs will be corrected. I wont even get into the MD defenders they r still looking into that were drastically altered and they didnt even get RDT. I think both situations should warrant them and let ppl decide if they want to use them or not.
You advocate your position, I advocate mine. If you won't accuse me of advocating a position I don't believe just to be contrarian, I won't accuse you of advocating a position that's nonsensical just to hear your keyboard click.
If I don't explicitly use the words "just to play devil's advocate" you can be assured every position I take is the position I believe in. The position I have on resource reallocation items similar to RDTs was formulated in 2005, when this game wasn't even a whiteboard sketch.
@DNA3000 i meant i was playing devils advocate. I dont have shehulk so the situation doesnt directly affect me. I just dont like how they r picking and choosing based on how much outrage they receive. If fewer ppl use a certain champ that shouldnt make their voices and opinions any leas relevant. This had a ton of outrage so they changed it fast. Other issues that have been going on even longer and arent talked about much get ignored.
@DNA3000 i meant i was playing devils advocate. I dont have shehulk so the situation doesnt directly affect me. I just dont like how they r picking and choosing based on how much outrage they receive. If fewer ppl use a certain champ that shouldnt make their voices and opinions any leas relevant. This had a ton of outrage so they changed it fast. Other issues that have been going on even longer and arent talked about much get ignored.
If that was your intent I apologize for making the incorrect inference.
I don't know if you can say it comes down to level of outrage. Players have been outraged even more about other changes that were not reversed. I would like to think that the developers saw reasonable arguments within the larger level of general complaints and that caused them to reconsider their decision. Logically, this situation seems very different to me than others that are being compared to it, and I made those arguments in the larger thread.
Although there's some subjective judgment involved, I think this case is a very extreme case. As I've said many times before, nerfing a champ doesn't automatically justify RDTs. In fact, no nerf of any magnitude justifies RDTs. The issue here isn't that She Hulk was nerfed, it was that whether the devs realized it or not they built an entire update of a champion on a foundation pillar of special combo mechanics the devs are now saying shouldn't have existed.
I'm not a She Hulk expert, but I know enough to know that some very special interactions occur when you allow She Hulk to combo into heavy that don't exist for other champs. You could say that the updated She Hulk is built on two fundamental abilities. The first is a momentum-like ability to build passive furies which taunt the defender to use specials which refresh those very passive furies. This feedback loop is far easier to manage when you can combo into heavy because you want to use normal attacks to give the target as much power as possible because you want them to have enough power to use specials quickly. You can still simply heavy-combo the target like any other champ can, but that doesn't give the same amount of power and it is harder to get the target using specials. The second is the ability to use slow to counter unstoppable. Allowing the player to fold in heavies into combos means they target is consistently slowed, eliminating unstoppable as a threat.
This then creates a very special circumstance where She Hulk was updated to try to get players to rank her up and use her more, and the two primary things the devs did are explicitly helped by her ability to combo into heavies. And when the developers were silent about that interaction for an extended period of time even highlighting players who were using the tactic that created the impression that this behavior was not just acceptable but intentional.
This is not the same thing as just fixing a typo in a champion info panel or nerfing obvious exploits. And it isn't an organic change due to long-term game balancing that you cannot predict until the datamining shows the issue a year down the road. The devs both failed to inform the players about the problem when it emerged, and also actively encouraged players to use the unintended mechanics, if indirectly. And that's why I argued for RDTs in this situation when I almost always argue against them in general.
They should also take back the compensation the summoners used her cheese to receive. So they get to beat the Champion with basically a "cheat code", get to rank her down to get resources back and then rank up another beast champ that gets introduced. I'm all for transparency but if they are going to complain about an unannounced nerf they should also have to complete the content with a un"buffed" champ like the rest of us are going to have to do now.
People might not like it, but there is a lot of truth in here
Let's see : - She-Hulk nerf or fix or whatever you call it : -10 pts - offering RDT for people who ranked her : +10 pts - forced update on android devices : -10 pts
I think drax should get a rank down ticket as well because back in the day he could bypass mordo’s astral evade and there was a full alliance quest season with mordo as mini boss and many people upgraded him including me for that reason but later on they nerfed that ability without compensation anything and since then my drax is sitting at r4 with no use but with wasted resources.
I don't know. I'm against Tickets in general, but I get where the motivation comes from. I think looking for the easiest way to deal with content is something Players naturally do. I don't support any means that violate TOS, and I respect whatever Kabam intends and doesn't intend for their content. I just don't think it's that uncommon to want to Rank the best option. I do agree that Tickets lead to an eddy of requests, and I'm for people accepting whatever choices they make. I think people not deserving it is a bit harsh. To be honest, they weren't aware it wasn't intended until recently.
I think the real issue is not the fact that they have seen fit to nerf her, though I personally don’t think it was that crazy. My main annoyance is the lack of understanding of core game mechanics that caused this in the first place. Comments such as all champions have the same heavy attack speed etc. betray an inexcusable level of ignorance from employees who should know more about the inner workings of the game than the majority of the player base.
The poor communication is sadly par for the course at the moment and certainly needs improvement, but we already knew that.
It’s such a shame that a game I love has such a dichotomy in its departments.
Please learn from this backlash, be proactive - if something from the OML/Colossus buffs is looking to be broken or ‘not working as intended’ announce it, say you’re looking at it, say your solution, give the timeframe.
People are reasonable as long as it’s not thrust upon them.
She honestly shouldnt funny how when AA was changed everyone screamed for RDTs and told me how useless he was now and well those same people still recommend him as a good rank up choice and the same will probably happen here. It's not that you people actually believe they are useless now but the fact you want to use this as a battle cry for free stuff.
While not a fan of rank down tickets in general I see sh specific rank down tickets as an acceptable solution to a problem caused by kabam's poor wording in the patch notes. Listing an exploit players found in a mechanic that has existed for years in the game but only recently (with her buff) became an exploit as a bug was poor decision making on their part. It should have also been corrected when first showcased on multiple platforms not months later but that's on them and the rank down tickets are the price they pay for it. Hopefully future champ adjustments are done with more clarity and we see the end of rank down tickets. I'm a huge fan of the game and have been playing almost since the initial release. some of the past changes have been essential for the longevity of the game (sw). I didn't see this as game breaking but again I think the rank down tickets are the price they pay for poor wording and lack of follow up. Just glad they are champ specific
Will definitely rank mine down. Never would have taken her up in the first place if it wasn't for her heavy action.
Is Kabam going to fix all the others that can end a combo with a heavy too?
If that is the only reason you ranked her up then you dont deserve the chance to rank her down.
Umm... players have the right to rank up a Champion for any reason they want. Free country, thank you very much.
Ok and Kabam gas the right to deny you compensation for any change they make.
And they bent the knee and gave us a rank down ticket. What's your point? You lost, the rank down ticket is coming whether it was just because of the heavies or not.
Will definitely rank mine down. Never would have taken her up in the first place if it wasn't for her heavy action.
Is Kabam going to fix all the others that can end a combo with a heavy too?
If that is the only reason you ranked her up then you dont deserve the chance to rank her down.
Umm... players have the right to rank up a Champion for any reason they want. Free country, thank you very much.
Ok and Kabam gas the right to deny you compensation for any change they make.
And they bent the knee and gave us a rank down ticket. What's your point? You lost, the rank down ticket is coming whether it was just because of the heavies or not.
Unfortunately Kabam decided to make this move probably so the community would be satisfied but their mistake is not remembering the community constantly wants something to cry about.
Will definitely rank mine down. Never would have taken her up in the first place if it wasn't for her heavy action.
Is Kabam going to fix all the others that can end a combo with a heavy too?
If that is the only reason you ranked her up then you dont deserve the chance to rank her down.
Umm... players have the right to rank up a Champion for any reason they want. Free country, thank you very much.
Ok and Kabam gas the right to deny you compensation for any change they make.
And they bent the knee and gave us a rank down ticket. What's your point? You lost, the rank down ticket is coming whether it was just because of the heavies or not.
Unfortunately Kabam decided to make this move probably so the community would be satisfied but their mistake is not remembering the community constantly wants something to cry about.
You're crying right now. Seems to me that you're no different.
Will definitely rank mine down. Never would have taken her up in the first place if it wasn't for her heavy action.
Is Kabam going to fix all the others that can end a combo with a heavy too?
If that is the only reason you ranked her up then you dont deserve the chance to rank her down.
Umm... players have the right to rank up a Champion for any reason they want. Free country, thank you very much.
Ok and Kabam gas the right to deny you compensation for any change they make.
And they bent the knee and gave us a rank down ticket. What's your point? You lost, the rank down ticket is coming whether it was just because of the heavies or not.
Unfortunately Kabam decided to make this move probably so the community would be satisfied but their mistake is not remembering the community constantly wants something to cry about.
I think after running this for nigh 5 years they’re well aware that there’s an element in the the community ready to complain about anything. Still has no bearing on doing what is right though on a case by case basis. There were opportunities in the past that clearly warranted the same outcome, I’d say this was a big contributor to both peoples reactions And kabam being backed into a corner. Sometimes the community is well within their rights to “cry”. Just like sometimes people like yourself are well within their right to cry about them crying. Personally I can’t see why anyone would be upset with this outcome other then they feel other cases in the past have deserved it as well
Will definitely rank mine down. Never would have taken her up in the first place if it wasn't for her heavy action.
Is Kabam going to fix all the others that can end a combo with a heavy too?
If that is the only reason you ranked her up then you dont deserve the chance to rank her down.
Umm... players have the right to rank up a Champion for any reason they want. Free country, thank you very much.
Ok and Kabam gas the right to deny you compensation for any change they make.
Why would you think that?
Well it is their game. They can kinda do whatever they want. Won't say it's right or there won't be consequences but there's not really anything you can do besides stop playing
Comments
If I don't explicitly use the words "just to play devil's advocate" you can be assured every position I take is the position I believe in. The position I have on resource reallocation items similar to RDTs was formulated in 2005, when this game wasn't even a whiteboard sketch.
I don't know if you can say it comes down to level of outrage. Players have been outraged even more about other changes that were not reversed. I would like to think that the developers saw reasonable arguments within the larger level of general complaints and that caused them to reconsider their decision. Logically, this situation seems very different to me than others that are being compared to it, and I made those arguments in the larger thread.
Although there's some subjective judgment involved, I think this case is a very extreme case. As I've said many times before, nerfing a champ doesn't automatically justify RDTs. In fact, no nerf of any magnitude justifies RDTs. The issue here isn't that She Hulk was nerfed, it was that whether the devs realized it or not they built an entire update of a champion on a foundation pillar of special combo mechanics the devs are now saying shouldn't have existed.
I'm not a She Hulk expert, but I know enough to know that some very special interactions occur when you allow She Hulk to combo into heavy that don't exist for other champs. You could say that the updated She Hulk is built on two fundamental abilities. The first is a momentum-like ability to build passive furies which taunt the defender to use specials which refresh those very passive furies. This feedback loop is far easier to manage when you can combo into heavy because you want to use normal attacks to give the target as much power as possible because you want them to have enough power to use specials quickly. You can still simply heavy-combo the target like any other champ can, but that doesn't give the same amount of power and it is harder to get the target using specials. The second is the ability to use slow to counter unstoppable. Allowing the player to fold in heavies into combos means they target is consistently slowed, eliminating unstoppable as a threat.
This then creates a very special circumstance where She Hulk was updated to try to get players to rank her up and use her more, and the two primary things the devs did are explicitly helped by her ability to combo into heavies. And when the developers were silent about that interaction for an extended period of time even highlighting players who were using the tactic that created the impression that this behavior was not just acceptable but intentional.
This is not the same thing as just fixing a typo in a champion info panel or nerfing obvious exploits. And it isn't an organic change due to long-term game balancing that you cannot predict until the datamining shows the issue a year down the road. The devs both failed to inform the players about the problem when it emerged, and also actively encouraged players to use the unintended mechanics, if indirectly. And that's why I argued for RDTs in this situation when I almost always argue against them in general.
- She-Hulk nerf or fix or whatever you call it : -10 pts
- offering RDT for people who ranked her : +10 pts
- forced update on android devices : -10 pts
Nope, still negative.
Why does she hulk get rdt
The poor communication is sadly par for the course at the moment and certainly needs improvement, but we already knew that.
It’s such a shame that a game I love has such a dichotomy in its departments.
Please learn from this backlash, be proactive - if something from the OML/Colossus buffs is looking to be broken or ‘not working as intended’ announce it, say you’re looking at it, say your solution, give the timeframe.
People are reasonable as long as it’s not thrust upon them.
about.
Sometimes the community is well within their rights to “cry”. Just like sometimes people like yourself are well within their right to cry about them crying. Personally I can’t see why anyone would be upset with this outcome other then they feel other cases in the past have deserved it as well