Fixing all the heavy attacks that link.

RagamugginGunner

If they don't want to give out RDTs for every champ they should give out 3-5 that can be used on any of them.

BigPoppaCBONE

We still haven't gotten a satisfactory response as to why this was such a big deal. Some champs perform better than others in certain fights. Duh. That will always be the case. Clearly some champs will be among the best and some will be among the worst. So what if some people in the small group of 6.2 finishers used one of the best champs for the job (She-hulk)? Did it actually go against the intent of the game and prevent a substantial amount of revenue or was it just playing to a character's strengths versus using a champ poorly suited for that fight?
Only an idiot wouldn't use a better tool if it's readily available with no known penalties for using it. How does that translate into a knee-jerk overreaction that's causing a snowball of after effects that even Daredevil could have seen coming? It wasn't like noobs and scrubs were exploring 6.2 all over the place with no items in an hour and never getting hit.
Silly panic moves never work out as intended and now it just gets even sillier.

GroundedWisdom

BigPoppaCBONE said:

We still haven't gotten a satisfactory response as to why this was such a big deal. Some champs perform better than others in certain fights. Duh. That will always be the case. Clearly some champs will be among the best and some will be among the worst. So what if some people in the small group of 6.2 finishers used one of the best champs for the job (She-hulk)? Did it actually go against the intent of the game and prevent a substantial amount of revenue or was it just playing to a character's strengths versus using a champ poorly suited for that fight? Only an idiot wouldn't use a better tool if it's readily available with no known penalties for using it. How does that translate into a knee-jerk overreaction that's causing a snowball of after effects that even Daredevil could have seen coming? It wasn't like noobs and scrubs were exploring 6.2 all over the place with no items in an hour and never getting hit. Silly panic moves never work out as intended and now it just gets even sillier.

A small number? Apparently you haven't been seeing the reactions. There's a reason this was a large issue. People were Ranking her in droves, to use a broken mechanic that cheesed the Fight, and it was encouraged by YouTube and other outlets. Now, I'm not saying it was some kind of massive exploit. People weren't aware this was broken. However, we're not talking about a few people that used it. Everyone and their dog was Ranking her for it.

BigPoppaCBONE

GroundedWisdom said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

We still haven't gotten a satisfactory response as to why this was such a big deal. Some champs perform better than others in certain fights. Duh. That will always be the case. Clearly some champs will be among the best and some will be among the worst. So what if some people in the small group of 6.2 finishers used one of the best champs for the job (She-hulk)? Did it actually go against the intent of the game and prevent a substantial amount of revenue or was it just playing to a character's strengths versus using a champ poorly suited for that fight? Only an idiot wouldn't use a better tool if it's readily available with no known penalties for using it. How does that translate into a knee-jerk overreaction that's causing a snowball of after effects that even Daredevil could have seen coming? It wasn't like noobs and scrubs were exploring 6.2 all over the place with no items in an hour and never getting hit. Silly panic moves never work out as intended and now it just gets even sillier.

A small number? Apparently you haven't been seeing the reactions. There's a reason this was a large issue. People were Ranking her in droves, to use a broken mechanic that cheesed the Fight, and it was encouraged by YouTube and other outlets. Now, I'm not saying it was some kind of massive exploit. People weren't aware this was broken. However, we're not talking about a few people that used it. Everyone and their dog was Ranking her for it.

Meh. So what if "droves" of people wanted her and ranked her up? The smart move would have been to special sale her crystal and put out some rankup deals. Guarantee they would have made 10x the cash (in hand!) they could have theoretically (but not really) lost out on. I also guarantee a very high percentage of the people that ranked her up would have found out that it's harder than it looks even with her "cheese"* and ended up buying revives, pots, and boosts. If they even actually ranked her up after talking about it on the internet. I wouldn't rank someone up as high as I could for one fight.

*(I wouldn't even call that cheese. Cheese to me is stun locks, electro vs those fury nodes, Hela on chaos. That's barely better than using Ghulk vs Magik or Blade vs a dimensional)

GroundedWisdom

If by "smart" you mean capitalizing on a bug, then I doubt any serious Developer designing content with a very specific level of difficulty would even consider that as a possibility.

16wegnerk

Lets clear a few things up guys.

1) Not everyone was ranking her specifically for the Champion fight. Myself included I upgraded her for the fun mechanic. She was just a genuinely good time to play so I took her to R5. The campion interaction is just a perk (I never actually tried her for that fight. Legit got her to R5 the day before the fix was announced)

2) She genuinely was bugged. She was a broken champ. It’s not just the champion fight it’s most endgame content that she was a direct counter to, stronger than any other champion in game. After they announced the fix I wanted to try and see why, see what the limits of she hulk were. I brought her to Labyrinth and got through 10 fights without using a single ITEM. Not revive. I’m including health potions here. Not a single one needed. Given i had to use someone else for skill matchups (electra, falcon) but she took down everything else with EASE. I recorded all my matches, and not one was i scared about dying (except maybe a little on cyclops because his SP1 gets annoying after awhile). Had i been able to try more i’m sure i could’ve walked through a lot more content as I didn’t even think to try her vs Variant 1 bosses.

She hulk was the perfect combination of SL’s damage, Ghost’s ability to play a fight without taking any damage (parries included), and utility (counter evade and unstoppable, reverse healing if needed). She made some of the most annoying fights in the game feel like every other matchup. ie Labyrinth juggernaut—solo’d in a match that was just as easy as labyrinth abomination or any other. She was insanely fun, but she just walked through everything and honestly after playing her at R5 for even just a week I understand why Kabam nerfed her

16wegnerk

In regards to my comment, i don’t think that this needed to be changed for all affected champs. It seems like it would greatly benefit the new OML. But it was definitely a necessary change for she hulk unless Kabam wanted people to plow through everything without a single item

BigPoppaCBONE

16wegnerk said:

Lets clear a few things up guys.

1) Not everyone was ranking her specifically for the Champion fight. Myself included I upgraded her for the fun mechanic. She was just a genuinely good time to play so I took her to R5. The campion interaction is just a perk (I never actually tried her for that fight. Legit got her to R5 the day before the fix was announced)

2) She genuinely was bugged. She was a broken champ. It’s not just the champion fight it’s most endgame content that she was a direct counter to, stronger than any other champion in game. After they announced the fix I wanted to try and see why, see what the limits of she hulk were. I brought her to Labyrinth and got through 10 fights without using a single ITEM. Not revive. I’m including health potions here. Not a single one needed. Given i had to use someone else for skill matchups (electra, falcon) but she took down everything else with EASE. I recorded all my matches, and not one was i scared about dying (except maybe a little on cyclops because his SP1 gets annoying after awhile). Had i been able to try more i’m sure i could’ve walked through a lot more content as I didn’t even think to try her vs Variant 1 bosses.

She hulk was the perfect combination of SL’s damage, Ghost’s ability to play a fight without taking any damage (parries included), and utility (counter evade and unstoppable, reverse healing if needed). She made some of the most annoying fights in the game feel like every other matchup. ie Labyrinth juggernaut—solo’d in a match that was just as easy as labyrinth abomination or any other. She was insanely fun, but she just walked through everything and honestly after playing her at R5 for even just a week I understand why Kabam nerfed her

I'd like to see those videos and see how she stacks up against other champs that can make deep runs with no items.

Snizzbar

May_The_Way said:

GroundedWisdom said:

May_The_Way said:

Snizzbar said:

May_The_Way said:

Lormif said:

DarkestDestroyer said:

Lormif said:

DarkestDestroyer said:

So annoying it’s claimed to be a “Bug Fix”

Yeah since the existence of the champs? Really a bug, it’s onoy because she hulk was costing them money on Champion.... like they don’t make enough anyway which is plain greedy!

No other way to look or explain it, well all see through it Kabam, absolutely disgrace!

I remember @DorkLessons did a video asking a dev if there would be a way to chain into a combo; and he even loved the idea (the dev)

Well what’s happening now... is that was a feature and you are taking it away, just to get more money in Act 6 which is absolute trash content anyway.

You can see all your players are loving this, why remove it?

Already been out in jail so guess my ban is due now, just to shut me up.... even though I defend things you do too, which is fine clearly.

Someone needs to speak up though, just a shame we get thrown to the trash and not able to be part of the community.

In your post you just illustrated that it was not known these champs could do this, otherwise the dev would not have loved the idea but pointed out it could already be done with these champs... Wait to defeat your own argument.

With all the bugs there isn’t tons the devs do know.

I’ve known about the Iron man, Ultron, etc heavy punch at end of combo for over a year.

Plus the devs don’t play the game really.

You have no evidence of any of this. The devs do know this game in ways you will never understand, and they know what is intended and what is not intended. They programmed it.

Well, the fact that they say things like "all champions have the same speed & cadence to attacks"... which someone playing the game for a week would know is entirely false, makes it seem they don't actually as much about the game as most hardcore players.

I believe Miike is a forum mod and not a game developer

And? The fact that a Kabam employees have spread false information in the past, puts a bad name on the entire company.

ONE Moderator misspoke. One who is no longer here to defend themselves.

Misspoke? How can you mistake something as plainly obvious that not all champions have the same speed on attacks? I think I learned that the 1st couple days I started playing back in 2017 Lol

I believe GW is referring to the mod who said Archangel was working "as intended" and left soon after.

GroundedWisdom

May_The_Way said:

GroundedWisdom said:

May_The_Way said:

Snizzbar said:

May_The_Way said:

Lormif said:

DarkestDestroyer said:

Lormif said:

DarkestDestroyer said:

So annoying it’s claimed to be a “Bug Fix”

Yeah since the existence of the champs? Really a bug, it’s onoy because she hulk was costing them money on Champion.... like they don’t make enough anyway which is plain greedy!

No other way to look or explain it, well all see through it Kabam, absolutely disgrace!

I remember @DorkLessons did a video asking a dev if there would be a way to chain into a combo; and he even loved the idea (the dev)

Well what’s happening now... is that was a feature and you are taking it away, just to get more money in Act 6 which is absolute trash content anyway.

You can see all your players are loving this, why remove it?

Already been out in jail so guess my ban is due now, just to shut me up.... even though I defend things you do too, which is fine clearly.

Someone needs to speak up though, just a shame we get thrown to the trash and not able to be part of the community.

In your post you just illustrated that it was not known these champs could do this, otherwise the dev would not have loved the idea but pointed out it could already be done with these champs... Wait to defeat your own argument.

With all the bugs there isn’t tons the devs do know.

I’ve known about the Iron man, Ultron, etc heavy punch at end of combo for over a year.

Plus the devs don’t play the game really.

You have no evidence of any of this. The devs do know this game in ways you will never understand, and they know what is intended and what is not intended. They programmed it.

Well, the fact that they say things like "all champions have the same speed & cadence to attacks"... which someone playing the game for a week would know is entirely false, makes it seem they don't actually as much about the game as most hardcore players.

I believe Miike is a forum mod and not a game developer

And? The fact that a Kabam employees have spread false information in the past, puts a bad name on the entire company.

ONE Moderator misspoke. One who is no longer here to defend themselves.

Misspoke? How can you mistake something as plainly obvious that not all champions have the same speed on attacks? I think I learned that the 1st couple days I started playing back in 2017 Lol

That's not what I was talking about. I was talking about AA.

K00shMaan

It is also worth noting that almost all of these champs are relatively older and generally regarded as below average champs. Thus, they are much more likely to receive buffs in the future. By fixing their heavies now, Kabam is more likely to avoid the entire fiasco they've gotten themselves into with the she hulk buff and subsequent nerf.

GroundedWisdom

K00shMaan said:

It is also worth noting that almost all of these champs are relatively older and generally regarded as below average champs. Thus, they are much more likely to receive buffs in the future. By fixing their heavies now, Kabam is more likely to avoid the entire fiasco they've gotten themselves into with the she hulk buff and subsequent nerf.

Perhaps. I think the bottom line is Champs aren't supposed to chain Heavies that way. This situation has brought it to the forefront. The community spoke up about other Champs that do it, and they adjusted them accordingly.

Fok

I ranked up ultron and superior iron man just because they were able to chain heavy atacks... she hulk got nerfed and got “compensation “ so i sure hope this will be the same story. U guys can’t just pull of stuff like this and not expect us to demand similar outcome for the exact same thing u did previously (she hulk debacle)

Kabam Lyra said:

Hi all,

We will not be issuing Rank Down Tickets for the other Champions that need to have the issue with the ability to Combo into a Heavy Attack fixed.

As mentioned in the announcement, Rank Down Tickets will not be given as a result of every Champion change or bug fix. They must be carefully considered on a case by case basis. In the case of She-Hulk this was being utilized regularly, and to defeat top tier content. The other Champions that will have this issue resolved have not been used in such a way. Thanks for your patience and understanding as we work toward a resolution for this issue.

CRE4TOR

There’s no “Rule List” to show the player base what is normal mechanics with a champ and what is not.

The game mechanics are SO vague that several times throughout the 4-5 year existence of the game, you have change narratives at will to suit yourselves.

Most of these champs are very old and don’t get used much. The problem is that long time players were forced to rank some of these champs to keep up with the persistence of the game before more champs were built into the pool.

These features you’re changing are mechanics that players have been using since the inception of the characters.

So one of the few attributes that these old champs still have, you are now taking away. Now the veteran players with these champs at high ranks are stuck with an even more useless champ that they are unhappy with.

Please reconsider RDT, even at the least issue 1 generic that can be used on any champs 2017 and below.

16wegnerk

BigPoppaCBONE said:

16wegnerk said:

Lets clear a few things up guys.

1) Not everyone was ranking her specifically for the Champion fight. Myself included I upgraded her for the fun mechanic. She was just a genuinely good time to play so I took her to R5. The campion interaction is just a perk (I never actually tried her for that fight. Legit got her to R5 the day before the fix was announced)

2) She genuinely was bugged. She was a broken champ. It’s not just the champion fight it’s most endgame content that she was a direct counter to, stronger than any other champion in game. After they announced the fix I wanted to try and see why, see what the limits of she hulk were. I brought her to Labyrinth and got through 10 fights without using a single ITEM. Not revive. I’m including health potions here. Not a single one needed. Given i had to use someone else for skill matchups (electra, falcon) but she took down everything else with EASE. I recorded all my matches, and not one was i scared about dying (except maybe a little on cyclops because his SP1 gets annoying after awhile). Had i been able to try more i’m sure i could’ve walked through a lot more content as I didn’t even think to try her vs Variant 1 bosses.

She hulk was the perfect combination of SL’s damage, Ghost’s ability to play a fight without taking any damage (parries included), and utility (counter evade and unstoppable, reverse healing if needed). She made some of the most annoying fights in the game feel like every other matchup. ie Labyrinth juggernaut—solo’d in a match that was just as easy as labyrinth abomination or any other. She was insanely fun, but she just walked through everything and honestly after playing her at R5 for even just a week I understand why Kabam nerfed her

I'd like to see those videos and see how she stacks up against other champs that can make deep runs with no items.

Certainly! I’ve never posted to youtube before but I’ll see what I can do. Once i get them uploaded I’ll send an update in here

GroundedWisdom

zeezee57 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

We still haven't gotten a satisfactory response as to why this was such a big deal. Some champs perform better than others in certain fights. Duh. That will always be the case. Clearly some champs will be among the best and some will be among the worst. So what if some people in the small group of 6.2 finishers used one of the best champs for the job (She-hulk)? Did it actually go against the intent of the game and prevent a substantial amount of revenue or was it just playing to a character's strengths versus using a champ poorly suited for that fight? Only an idiot wouldn't use a better tool if it's readily available with no known penalties for using it. How does that translate into a knee-jerk overreaction that's causing a snowball of after effects that even Daredevil could have seen coming? It wasn't like noobs and scrubs were exploring 6.2 all over the place with no items in an hour and never getting hit. Silly panic moves never work out as intended and now it just gets even sillier.

A small number? Apparently you haven't been seeing the reactions. There's a reason this was a large issue. People were Ranking her in droves, to use a broken mechanic that cheesed the Fight, and it was encouraged by YouTube and other outlets. Now, I'm not saying it was some kind of massive exploit. People weren't aware this was broken. However, we're not talking about a few people that used it. Everyone and their dog was Ranking her for it.

Bro you're delusional if you think the number of people who ranked Shulk and explored 6.2.6 is massive. I'd love to see the actual data on it (we never will) but the number of people who have fully explored 6.2 at all is quite low overall. Sure lots of people ranked Shulk with this mechanic in mind, but very few overall have explored 6.2 using it. The people who have explored 6.2 have massive rosters, and while I have no doubt Shulk was used by some to get it done, I'd wager more people used Sym to do it than her. (Again I'd love to see the actual data and be proven wrong if that's the case)

I didn't say massive. It's more than a few. I'm not exaggerating it, but I'm also not willing to downplay it either. "Only a couple, wasn't that easy.".

Lormif

arsjum said:

Lormif said:

CodeOmega said:

@Lormif pretty bad company to not realize this for 4 years then. I’ve never seen a bug not recognized for so long by the developers, especially since they have things like betas and CCP videos they use and watch

Then you obviously have not been in any sort of major programming environment.... Intel and AMD had this nastly little bug called meltdown and specter in their systems for decades before it was descovered. Every major application has bugs unknown by the devs, that is why there is bug bounty programs.

A terrible analogy. You mean to tell me that meltdown and specter had been in plain sight of AMD and Intel engineers and had been regularly demonstrated by users of PCs running AMD and Intel chips and yet both AMD and Intel had been oblivious to these nasty bugs?

Your point may be well if that was the argument being made by the poster I replied to, it was not. Even still bugs go unreported in videos all the time. Developers do not analyze videos with scrutiny to look for bugs like that typically.

IvarTheBoneless

Maybe I'm going to get crucified bringing this to Kabam's attention but I need to know if more champs are planned to get fixed.

Captain marvel (movie) also benefits greatly from being able to heavy chain in the corner since that allows you to keep her binary ignition up. If they fixed it it would kinda be a nerf in my opinion. Can I get a response on this @Kabam Miike

Onmix

No reason to have RDT for these champs. They are in no way comparable to SH’s mechanics, what her heavy did, her furies, her taunt, etc
They didn’t have a beta, they weren’t advertised to take advantage of the mechanic.

Chaining a heavy does nothing for these champs. No RDT.

GroundedWisdom

May_The_Way said:

GroundedWisdom said:

May_The_Way said:

GroundedWisdom said:

May_The_Way said:

Snizzbar said:

May_The_Way said:

Lormif said:

DarkestDestroyer said:

Lormif said:

DarkestDestroyer said:

So annoying it’s claimed to be a “Bug Fix”

Yeah since the existence of the champs? Really a bug, it’s onoy because she hulk was costing them money on Champion.... like they don’t make enough anyway which is plain greedy!

No other way to look or explain it, well all see through it Kabam, absolutely disgrace!

I remember @DorkLessons did a video asking a dev if there would be a way to chain into a combo; and he even loved the idea (the dev)

Well what’s happening now... is that was a feature and you are taking it away, just to get more money in Act 6 which is absolute trash content anyway.

You can see all your players are loving this, why remove it?

Already been out in jail so guess my ban is due now, just to shut me up.... even though I defend things you do too, which is fine clearly.

Someone needs to speak up though, just a shame we get thrown to the trash and not able to be part of the community.

In your post you just illustrated that it was not known these champs could do this, otherwise the dev would not have loved the idea but pointed out it could already be done with these champs... Wait to defeat your own argument.

With all the bugs there isn’t tons the devs do know.

I’ve known about the Iron man, Ultron, etc heavy punch at end of combo for over a year.

Plus the devs don’t play the game really.

You have no evidence of any of this. The devs do know this game in ways you will never understand, and they know what is intended and what is not intended. They programmed it.

Well, the fact that they say things like "all champions have the same speed & cadence to attacks"... which someone playing the game for a week would know is entirely false, makes it seem they don't actually as much about the game as most hardcore players.

I believe Miike is a forum mod and not a game developer

And? The fact that a Kabam employees have spread false information in the past, puts a bad name on the entire company.

ONE Moderator misspoke. One who is no longer here to defend themselves.

Misspoke? How can you mistake something as plainly obvious that not all champions have the same speed on attacks? I think I learned that the 1st couple days I started playing back in 2017 Lol

That's not what I was talking about. I was talking about AA.

Oh yes, I forgot about that one too. That makes at least 2 instances where Kabam employees have put out false information. That paints a terrible picture for the company... just saying...

False information? No. His comment was that all Champs have the same speed. Meaning they're supposed to. Then people took that and ran with it because of discrepancies they've noticed. That's not false information. That's what they aim for. Supported by the fact that they're altering the other Champs to match. If you're going to say they're spreading false information, some context would help.

Aleor

Why not "fix" them like they did with ss? Just add it in their description, that they can chain a heavy reliably when enemy is below a bar of power. It doesn't really matter, their heavies don't have some nice things going on, except post buff oml. It just doesn't make any sense

GroundedWisdom

SS wasn't increased to 100% as per the Description error because that would have been too powerful. They discussed it, though. In this case, Champs aren't supposed to do that unless specified. Like Wasp. The decision isn't really one that hinges on what the Description says. It's the outcome.