Stark-Enhanced Spider-Man: The most overrated champion in 2019 MCOC

JohnHSJohnHS Member Posts: 509 ★★★
in General Discussion
Starky is overrated.
Now, a lot of you might be thinking "What? He's got crazy damage, can auto-evade specials, and has taunt and power drain." That's true. But that's ALL he has. That's not enough to "Beyond God Tier" in 2019. Why do I believe this? Well let's compare him to other "Beyond God Tier" champs. (I'll be using Seatin's tier list for simplicity). Skip to the end TL;DR if you don't want to see all the comparisons

Archangel: Personally I think he shouldn't be considered Beyond God Tier because of the immense number of champs immune to bleed an/or poison, but in the fights he can do, he can completely shut down all their abilities and regen with just a few heavy attacks, and proceed to melt them. Starky, on the other hand, has no way to deal with damage back like Electro, evade, heavy healing, Unstoppable, and other abilities that AA can just turn off. OK with suicides

Domino: Turns off evade, has massive bleed damage off her SP3 and SP2, can fail basically any ability in existence, shrug off bleeds, has high block prof and perfect block chance, just keeps getting better as the fight goes on, and can cheese content absurdly easily with her amazing Flaming Trinity synergies. Starky does none of those things. Can shrug off the bleed from suicides and mostly relies on SP3, which negates recoil.

Omega Red: Massive DOT that he get simply by standing next to the opponent. Immune to Poison and massively benefits from being bled. Negates Thorns, Electroshock, rock hard thorns, and even Limbo with his tentacle attacks. The only champ that can resist his death spores is Ghulk. Also regen. Gets basically none of the negatives of suicides and massively benefits from the positives, especially the bleed.

Namor: Has massive damage from hitting the opponent like Starky, but unlike him has regen and takes ZERO DAMAGE while attacking. This counters an absurd amount of problems. Heals from suicides.

Magik: Opponents never get to use specials and just get stuck in the corner. 'Nuff said. Also great damage mitigation with Limbo. Even though Starky will evade most special attacks, he can't deal with abilities given by launching specials, like regen, Unstoppable, evade, etc. Negates of a lot of the damage from suicides.

Symbiote Supreme: Can tank SP3s, power control, armor break, and the best Nullify in the game. He's a bit more niche, but if it has buffs and bleeds, he's among the best options. Starky has no counter to many annoying buffs. Not super suicide friendly, but he is mostly SP3 reliant.

Claire Voyant: Triple immunities, is great against immunities champs (of whom there are many), nullify, power gain, crazy regen, power steal; just overall solves a lot of problems Starky can't. Extremely suicide friendly.

Blade: A little behind the meta due to the prevalence of Bleed immune champs and non-villains, but still he's got lots of sustainability with regen, decreases debuff duration, and shuts off lots of abilities that melt Starky, such as Limbo and Aura of Incineration. OK with suicides due to regen.

Aegon: When ramped up there's basically nothing he can't do. Very suicide friendly as he can shrug off the debuffs and just use SP3s.

Nick Fury: Best DOT around. Counters miss, auto-block, and evade. Has so many bleeds he can negate a lot of regen. Is stun immune and can shrug off all debuffs by simply using a heavy attack. Has two lives. You WANT to mess up and die with Nick Fury. OK with suicides, but recoil hurts in the second phase.

Corvus: Ends fight extremely quickly with guaranteed damage, has power control, a bunch of immunities, can counter evade and auto-block, and literally can't die without getting knocked down or running out of Glaive charges. He can go at 1HP for half a quest. Starky isn't in his league. Extremely suicide friendly.

Hype: Poison immunity, can stack debuffs, and gets to specials very quickly and even without hitting the opponent. This by itself solves a lot of problems. SP1 spam ignores most damage back. He can special intercept and counter a bunch of nodes that you require you to use specials in certain situations. Crazy damage. Regen. Can use a lot of SP3s and is poison immune, making him good with suicides.

Medusa: Probably not Beyond God Tier anymore, but still has the crazy utility of completely shutting down some of the most annoying defenders: Robots. No power, no abilities. Also the safety net of auto-block. OK with suicides.

Captain Sparkles: When duped and at high sig, she finishes a lot of fights before her indestructible even goes away. Ridiculous burst. Immunities. Tankiness. Requires one fight of buildup and you're basically good to go. Maintain by using heavy attacks, which deals damage instead of building Poise by running away and wasting time like Starky. Immune to suicides for most of the fight.

Ghost: Best. Champ. In. The. Game. Except for maybe Quake. Immune to all DOT debuffs. In fact she benefits from the opponent bleeding/poisoning/shocking/incinerating her. Doesn't need to parry or intercept to get an opening. Can completely or partially phase most annoying specials (which is better than auto-evade). Can tank SP3s. Ignores evade, unblockable, etc. Takes no damage while phasing. GUARANTEED damage which ignores armor and physical resist, and most importantly, critical resist. Ends basically any fight that doesn't have damage back or unstoppable all the time (or something that punishes you for Guaranteed crits like Maw. Negates/benefits from Suicide debuffs, and can even ignore recoil. The bump to her base attack means she's among the best for suicides.

Quake: Never needs to touch the opponent. Evade counters shut her down, as do DOT debuffs you get at the start of the fight, but the same goes for Starky. Difficult to play, sure, but she and her massive AAR solves a crazy amount of problems Starky can't.

Beardo: Crazy high block proficiency, crazy regen reversal, armor break, is tanky, massive SP2, shrugs off debuffs, has 100% AAR on his SP1 which is surprisingly useful, counters unstoppable, and is very sustainable. Pretty good with suicides. Just parry and heavy until you get an SP2, and you'll take basically no damage, unlike Starky, who's the definition of flimsy.

Void: Deals damage by simply existing. Has loads of health and is incinerate immune. Can kill opponents without hitting them much. Shuts down and reverses healing and power gain. Partial evade counter. Not great with suicides though.

There are even many non-BGT champs who are better than Starky. Warlock and his AAR, guaranteed heal block, solid damage, double immunities, and massive tankiness. Destroys opponents who try to regen. Sentinel, who's among the tankiest who exist, has immunities and regen, a lot of damage, heal block, armor break, and an entire Variant designed for him. Thing, who has an absurd amount of immunities and utility, can eat a combo to the face and take basically no damage, is Unstoppable half the time.


TL;DR
In short, Starky's ramp up involves dodging around and losing ground rather than hitting the opponent, he's super flimsy, and has only three pieces of utility: Limited power control by taunting out special attacks and his heavy (which takes too long to recharge), auto-evade on specials, and stun-lock in some situations. But even Luke Cage can do those things just as well. He's still very good, and I'm not saying he shouldn't be used, isn't viable, doesn't hit crazy hard, isn't fun for many people, etc. But the random evades messing up your fighting patterns, lack of ways to deal with taking damage, the annoyance of building poise, the awful block proficiency and health pool mean he's no longer top of the meta. #DemoteStarky


*Disclaimer: No, I haven't been playing as long as some, and I don't have a super impressive roster; just 5/50s and 3/45s. But I study this game avidly and many players who have massively impressive rosters and skills, such as KT1 and Brian Grant, agree.
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Comments

  • Nik_860Nik_860 Member Posts: 32 ★
    I agree with you
  • Buch30Buch30 Member Posts: 45 ★
    Stark Spider-Man is good for act 6 longer fights. I don’t like using him for shorter fights. I can get mostly all content done with my 6 star domino with synergy. I still need a 5 star red hulk though, but anyway Starky takes extra 15 seconds ramp up. In most match ups like uncollected it’s not worth it.
  • WillieBWillieB Member Posts: 151 ★★
    Agreed.
  • issamaf80issamaf80 Member Posts: 1,472 ★★★
    Panchulon21 said:

    I stopped reading when you said “let’s use seatins god tier list for simplicity” lost all credibility from me there”

    And also...

    He’s from 2018.

    hes from 2017 after secret empire forever event
  • Panchulon21Panchulon21 Member Posts: 2,605 ★★★★★
    Yeah you’re right. Which makes his statement even less credible. He’s talking about him being most overrated from 2019, but he’s an old champ.

    Maybe if he said thing, or stealth then I’d say sure. But a champ from almost 20 champ releases ago. Nah
  • issamaf80issamaf80 Member Posts: 1,472 ★★★
    Panchulon21 said:

    Yeah you’re right. Which makes his statement even less credible. He’s talking about him being most overrated from 2019, but he’s an old champ.

    Maybe if he said thing, or stealth then I’d say sure. But a champ from almost 20 champ releases ago. Nah

    yeah i still dont have him as 5 star if i ever get him i will rank 5 him .
  • JohnHSJohnHS Member Posts: 509 ★★★
    edited October 2019
    Panchulon21 said:

    Yeah you’re right. Which makes his statement even less credible. He’s talking about him being most overrated from 2019, but he’s an old champ.

    Maybe if he said thing, or stealth then I’d say sure. But a champ from almost 20 champ releases ago. Nah

    I said he's currently overrated. IN 2019, he's no longer very good. In 2017, he was top of the meta along with Blade. But in the 2019 meta, he's overrated.
  • JohnHSJohnHS Member Posts: 509 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Personally, I don't think he's overrated in general. Sure, some people overrate him, but some people over and under rate everything. In general, I think the median consensus is that Sparky is a great burst damage champ that has moderate utility, which he is.

    But the related question is whether Sparky should be in Seatin's, or anyone else's, "beyond god tier" list. And that depends on how you define that. Just because Sparky is not perfectly equal in value to other things on the list doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't belong on that list, because every list has to have a range, not a specific value. If Seatin's (or anyone else's) lists comprised only champs of one specific value, then you'd need dozens of tiers to encompass everything.

    If I look at Seatin's November list and look at the "Beyond God Tier" and "God Tier" champs, I'd say that Sparky sits near the border between the two, so it is a judgment call as to whether he belongs in either of those two categories. And based on how he's managed the lists over time, I believe Seatin tries to be "sticky" with his evaluations so champions don't flap randomly back and forth between tiers. For consistency, once he rates a champion into one category or another, he doesn't change it until there's significant reason to do so. If it is just a maybe here or there, they stay put which is a reasonable way to do thing. If I had to guess, I'd guess that if you asked him, he'd say Sparky is borderline, but until he's clearly over the border he's keeping him in the BGT group.

    It is also possible that Sparky is in the beyond god tier for Seatin because Sparky gets bonus points for having specific usability in the current content. In general, he might be weaker on paper, but he does have specific advantages in, say, Variant difficulty. He was also one of the answers for Lagacy's Symbiote Supreme and that wasn't an isolated incident: he has been a useful champ for an above average number of nasty fights in content over the last couple years. Coincidental or not, that does count for something.

    Thanks for the insight. I'd say the gap of usability between him and, say, Ghost, is pretty massive. I've seen a lot of people in the late mid-game who consider him one of the absolute best, and this post was in response to that. I'd say he's overall worse than many of Seatin's "God-Tier" champs.
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • psychodadpsychodad Member Posts: 24 ★
    JohnHS said:



    Thanks for the insight. I'd say the gap of usability between him and, say, Ghost, is pretty massive. I've seen a lot of people in the late mid-game who consider him one of the absolute best, and this post was in response to that. I'd say he's overall worse than many of Seatin's "God-Tier" champs.

    yeah, the gap may be massive between him and Ghost, but Ghost is often viewed as the absolute best champ in the game... so is it really fair to compare him to ghost? Doesn't mean Starky isn't absolutely fantastic. just means Ghost probably needs a tier all for herself.
  • JohnHSJohnHS Member Posts: 509 ★★★
    Cliffordcan said:

    As DNA pointed out, you have to compare him to the list you think he belongs in. In your case the God Tier section. He is obviously better than all the champs there. Minus some in specific situations (mainly immunity situations) and ignoring champs that I don't have at a high level (CV, Worlock, Thing), I can easily say he still belongs in BGT.

    I do agree that AA and (possibly)Medusa should be moved down and then Sparky would be near the bottom of the BGT list. Also, you are comparing his utility to utility-based champs and completely ignoring his insane damage output while leaving out 2 pieces of utility (his SP3 Ensare and SP2 Shock DOT). You give no weight to his ability to avoid chip-damage heavy specials like Bishop, Pun, Pun99, etc.

    Sparky was on top for a very long time in AWA before Thing and crit-punishing champs were introduced. He could easily solo any node outside of Bleed and Poison. While the Meta has shifted, that doesn't change a champion's tier. If Kabam releases more Corvus immune content for the next 6 months and he is less useful (which has already been happening) he will not get demoted a tier. I think you are confused on what Meta is and how an arbitrary tier list would relate to it.

    In addition, I'd argue that you don't know how to use him correctly. My proof is your complaining about his block proficiency, his evades throwing you off and your concern of "'losing ground." None of these should be huge concerns when using him correctly.

    TL;DR: If your argument is just that he is less effective in today's Meta, you are correct. But you are incorrect thinking this has any effect on an arbitrary list of champion power in a vacuum or that he is over-rated.

    The meta changing does change a champions tier. Just ask Gwenpool. I know the Tier List is somewhat arbitrary, but I'm just using so that we have some sort of standard. And I do know how to use him. You can't always consistently land an intercept, and sometimes have to parry. When he evades from the parry, that's really really annoying and if you're not completely on top of it, leads to getting hit. Block Proficiency matters because he will take block damage from specials. His evade chance isn't anywhere near 100%. Sometimes you do have to block. When I say losing ground, I mean the number of times you have to dash back to build poise is obnoxious, especially with more passive AIs. I like pin my opponents in the corner, as it limits their counterplay options. He was my ticket to the Collector, my second 5/50. I know how he works. And I haven't seen him looking much better in the hands of a more skilled player.
  • RiderofHellRiderofHell Member Posts: 4,652 ★★★★★
    Idk bout you guys but stark has been MVP for me in 5.3 on my mini account especially with cornered and power reserve lanes..no one can get close or outbeat him on those lanes lol
  • UnFazedSkullUnFazedSkull Member Posts: 245 ★★
    RiderofHell said:

    Idk bout you guys but stark has been MVP for me in 5.3 on my mini account especially with cornered and power reserve lanes..no one can get close or outbeat him on those lanes lol

    No one is saying he is trash people are just saying he is slowly dying out in the current meta
  • shadow_lurker22shadow_lurker22 Member Posts: 3,245 ★★★★★
    RiderofHell said:

    Idk bout you guys but stark has been MVP for me in 5.3 on my mini account especially with cornered and power reserve lanes..no one can get close or outbeat him on those lanes lol

    If I may put my input that would be older content around when he was added that hasn't changed I'm concerned whether or not the new content will render him useless.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,654 Guardian
    shadow_lurker22 said:

    RiderofHell said:

    Idk bout you guys but stark has been MVP for me in 5.3 on my mini account especially with cornered and power reserve lanes..no one can get close or outbeat him on those lanes lol

    If I may put my input that would be older content around when he was added that hasn't changed I'm concerned whether or not the new content will render him useless.
    Well, Sparky is also good in Variant and I've seen some very good uses in Act 6, so he isn't becoming obsolete yet. For example, regarding the "only evades specials" thing I recall seeing some gameplay (maybe Seatin) with Sparky verses the destructive feedback yellowjacket in 6.2. Yellowjacket's SP1 is not the easiest thing to avoid, and while you can dex it all by yourself using Sparky makes it far easier. And with destructive feedback your first mistake is your last, so Sparky can save you revives on that kind of node.

    The "meta" of the game (really, the current design direction of the content) is not heading towards or away from any one particular champ, but rather towards diverse rosters as a whole. Or to put it another way, the current direction of the game is not to make some champs more useful and other champs less useful, it is to make individual champs less broadly useful and more champs situationally useful. To the extent that there are champs more broadly useful than Sparky, it is more likely that future content will make those champs less broadly useful than it is Sparky becoming increasingly less useful. Champs like Omega and Namor and Void aren't going to ever become useless, but future content is likely to contain increasingly more counters to them in some situations, while allowing them to shine in others.
  • monomuggmonomugg Member Posts: 312 ★★
    spidey is a beast is some areas of the game. i disagree with champ being underrated. he does become a game changer champion when you pull him. personally he was my 2nd 5* and my first R4. exploring act 5.3 he has my MVP too
  • NMEONESNMEONES Member Posts: 279 ★★
    I strongly disagree.... I’ve had sparky r5 Since r5 champs were introduced and still use him for tons of content. My go to champ for quick damage still. He’s a very well rounded champ. Yeah the power drain takes a bit long to reboot but if you play it right it seriously comes in clutch. His taunt is still amazing for making fights finish quicker and his block proficiency isn’t an issue if you aren’t sitting there taking blocked hits. His shock damage is also amazing.

    You also can’t rate him while using suicides. He isn’t a suicide friendly champ. Not fair to the champ to rate him as one.
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