Compensation Discussion [MERGED THREADS]

tidusx2jr

Roguefrogger13 said:

Who's bright idea was it to do the compensation packages based on story progression level? What does story progression level have to do with the AQ and the wars? I'll tell you, it has absolutely nothing to do with the AQ and the wars. Nothing!

It has absolutely nothing to do with it, you're absolutely correct, HOWEVER, this compensation had absolutely nothing to do with AQ and AW. It was compensation for the game going into emergency maintenance and being inaccessible for several hours, as it was stated by kabam, just like it was stated that aw season 13 rewards would be sent out next Wednesday the 20th along with the compensation specifically for aq/aw to follow shortly after.

Sweetleaf88666

Lormif said:

ahock101 said:

You tiered the compensation? Are you having a laugh, how was I any less affected by the maintenance than someone who is cavalier, how was someone who isnt uncollected affected any differently, this is a slap in the face

Because the higher ranked you are the more likely you are to have lost larger rewards in the aw and aq issues, my alliance lost out on 1k 6* shards at least, if you are not uncollected yet you probably cannot say the same

The compensation has nothing to do with aw and aq. The compensation for those are coming on the 20th

Snurris

In my world it’s not totally fair. I’m good with my compensation. 7,5 k 5* shards and some other goodies is totally fine.
And I realize that giving someone on level 5 of the game the same thing would screw things up as well.

But the question I can’t seem to figure out is.
Why does Kabam say that my time, my frustration, my effort, the way it affected me is less worth then my alliance mates, just because I’ve focused more on arena the last few months and they focused more on story. So I quess it’s a way for Kabam to punish me for making the wrong choice?

Mauled

Solid job Kabam. Tiered it well too, those are rewards that are valuable and relevant for each progress level.

To those who are saying that it’s the same issue.

I’m Cavalier, in a Map6 alliance (330m AQ), T4 war so the outage affected me far more than my alt which is uncollected, playing at a more casual level, scoring around 80m AQ.

If you were to give the cavalier rewards to everyone in my alt’s alliance it would be their first 1k 6* shards for ½ which shows that they’re not needing them yet for one, and a fully formed 5* for accounts that only have 10 5* is a 10% boost to their account because of 12 hours of bad servers, vs my 2nd dupe of KK who is one of 90 5* on my main.
Compensation is all relative and potentially affects the longevity of the game

Snurris

Mauled said:

Solid job Kabam. Tiered it well too, those are rewards that are valuable and relevant for each progress level.

To those who are saying that it’s the same issue.

I’m Cavalier, in a Map6 alliance (330m AQ), T4 war so the outage affected me far more than my alt which is uncollected, playing at a more casual level, scoring around 80m AQ.

If you were to give the cavalier rewards to everyone in my alt’s alliance it would be their first 1k 6* shards for ½ which shows that they’re not needing them yet for one, and a fully formed 5* for accounts that only have 10 5* is a 10% boost to their account because of 12 hours of bad servers, vs my 2nd dupe of KK who is one of 90 5* on my main.
Compensation is all relative and potentially affects the longevity of the game

I both agree and disagree with you.
U say you lost more then me... as far as AW is concerned, yes probably. But that’s not an issue here. Separate compensation for that.
Maybe in AQ as well so I can deal with you getting more for that. No problem.
But that has nothing to do with the overall game.
If you exclude AQ and AW the downtime affected us the same with very minor differences. So why are youre time, frustration etc worth more than mine?

hungryhungrybbq

So, I skimmed through this thread. I believe the tiered compensation is fair. Here's why. Saw many posts from the players in the lower brackets claiming that the compensation should be equal for all players. Here's the point your missing, in this scenario, the SAME items do not equate to EQUAL value. Quite the opposite. If the items in the compensation had been the same for all players it would not have been equal. A fully formed 5* and 1k 6* shards given to a newer (relative to cavalier) account would in fact have a much higher value to that account than the same items being given to someone who is cavalier. Giving them something that would take them a month to earn for free instead of something that takes us a week to earn. It could be considered that the lower tiers received something 4 times (monthly reward vs weekly) more valuable than we did if the items were the same. Make sense at all? Or for someone in-between (earns a 5* every two weeks) it was 2x more valuable..etc.

Tiger360

I'm Uncollected and I for one am more than happy with the rewards I got and will not be pushing for Cavalier anytime soon unless I awaken my Aegon and R5 my ghost. The compensation is great, and the 2.5k difference from cavalier isn't that much considering I can just grind it out from the Doctor Doom / Fantastic Four event in like 2 days. I'm still far off my first 6 star and I don't grind as much as others so I am incredibly happy, thank you Kabam.

AceLuffySabo

I'm happy with the rewards I got but unhappy with my luck, as usual; I got another 20 levels on a useless 5*.

Snurris

hungryhungrybbq said:

So, I skimmed through this thread. I believe the tiered compensation is fair. Here's why. Saw many posts from the players in the lower brackets claiming that the compensation should be equal for all players. Here's the point your missing, in this scenario, the SAME items do not equate to EQUAL value. Quite the opposite. If the items in the compensation had been the same for all players it would not have been equal. A fully formed 5* and 1k 6* shards given to a newer (relative to cavalier) account would in fact have a much higher value to that account than the same items being given to someone who is cavalier. Giving them something that would take them a month to earn for free instead of something that takes us a week to earn. It could be considered that the lower tiers received something 4 times (monthly reward vs weekly) more valuable than we did if the items were the same. Make sense at all? Or for someone in-between (earns a 5* every two weeks) it was 2x more valuable..etc.

I can agree with most. Giving someone who is new to the game or in low level the same would not be fair either.

But if two people in the same ally, both level 60 and equally active in the game. Both affected the same way by the outage. The only difference is that one has prioritized Story quest to be cavalier and the other has prioritized arena to grind for the coming offers on Black Friday. How is it fair to get different compensation? @hungryhungrybbq

Tiger360

Duke_Kingdom said:

Why oh why are the conquerors so oppressed? Like what's wrong with beating Maestro? It feels wrong for us to be grouped with the proven since there is a wide gap in progression for people who beat Act 4 and are close to Uncollected and people who just beat Thanos. At least give us something in between. Proven got 2.5k 5* shards and uncollected got 7.5k. Why can't conquerors get 5k? It's solid middle ground.

I hope your joking, there is a MASSIVE gap in difficulty from Act 4-5. The collector is like 10 times as difficult as Maestro. I could Solo the final Act 4 quest with a 4* Corvus and I can barely take out 2-3 people on Act 5 with a Corvus unless I get 2+ charges. 5k shards would be insane for someone who likely hasn't touched Act 5 yet

Saiel

Great job kabam, i am very very happy with the compensation that i have received

Woody15

I think the compensation was fair. Wish I was Cavalier for the 6* shards, but oh well. Thank you Kabam for taking care of that issue and being pretty open about it in your communication

NotStarving

hungryhungrybbq said:

So, I skimmed through this thread. I believe the tiered compensation is fair. Here's why. Saw many posts from the players in the lower brackets claiming that the compensation should be equal for all players. Here's the point your missing, in this scenario, the SAME items do not equate to EQUAL value. Quite the opposite. If the items in the compensation had been the same for all players it would not have been equal. A fully formed 5* and 1k 6* shards given to a newer (relative to cavalier) account would in fact have a much higher value to that account than the same items being given to someone who is cavalier. Giving them something that would take them a month to earn for free instead of something that takes us a week to earn. It could be considered that the lower tiers received something 4 times (monthly reward vs weekly) more valuable than we did if the items were the same. Make sense at all? Or for someone in-between (earns a 5* every two weeks) it was 2x more valuable..etc.

This is the best way to explain why the compensation was fair to be tiered. The only unfair about this is the people who have done act 4 but got act 3's Proven compensation.

People who are complaining, start thinking about pushing for Uncollected. It's really not that hard anymore and it's actually quite fun.

Tiger360

Reading through this post it's a joke that players are complaining with it being based on Progression. I even saw a guy say this is tailored towards whales. I've not spent a penny on this game yet and I don't even grind it that hard, like I pop in a hour or so a day max and play some AW etc and I'm Uncollected. I think this was very fair and Kabam should continue making Compensations towards Progression

RagamugginGunner

DaRealMcCoy said:

heirDEZ said:

These compensations are weak.. only meant to benefit whales. Ugh this classism disgusts me..

Well at least somebody sees through this BS! Time & time again the developer reminds everybody that those who spend big $ or play this game as a full-time job are the ones who get the best stuff...

Yeah totally! It's such BS that guys who have spent more time and effort playing football then me get to play in the NFL and earn millions of dollars. Why don't I get paid millions of dollars to play in the NFL? It's just not fair!

hungryhungrybbq

Snurris said:

hungryhungrybbq said:

So, I skimmed through this thread. I believe the tiered compensation is fair. Here's why. Saw many posts from the players in the lower brackets claiming that the compensation should be equal for all players. Here's the point your missing, in this scenario, the SAME items do not equate to EQUAL value. Quite the opposite. If the items in the compensation had been the same for all players it would not have been equal. A fully formed 5* and 1k 6* shards given to a newer (relative to cavalier) account would in fact have a much higher value to that account than the same items being given to someone who is cavalier. Giving them something that would take them a month to earn for free instead of something that takes us a week to earn. It could be considered that the lower tiers received something 4 times (monthly reward vs weekly) more valuable than we did if the items were the same. Make sense at all? Or for someone in-between (earns a 5* every two weeks) it was 2x more valuable..etc.

I can agree with most. Giving someone who is new to the game or in low level the same would not be fair either.

But if two people in the same ally, both level 60 and equally active in the game. Both affected the same way by the outage. The only difference is that one has prioritized Story quest to be cavalier and the other has prioritized arena to grind for the coming offers on Black Friday. How is it fair to get different compensation? @hungryhungrybbq

Story progress/title is probably the most universal way for the company to differentiate progress levels. There's no real way for them to look at each account individually and make determinations on a case by case basis. They have to just decide what is the best way to determine overall progress of an account universally. In my opinion, I think it's a fair, simple way to assess account progression. The only other I can think of is prestige, but they experienced backlash last time they used that as a measuring stick:)

hungryhungrybbq

Snurris said:

Mauled said:

Solid job Kabam. Tiered it well too, those are rewards that are valuable and relevant for each progress level.

To those who are saying that it’s the same issue.

I’m Cavalier, in a Map6 alliance (330m AQ), T4 war so the outage affected me far more than my alt which is uncollected, playing at a more casual level, scoring around 80m AQ.

If you were to give the cavalier rewards to everyone in my alt’s alliance it would be their first 1k 6* shards for ½ which shows that they’re not needing them yet for one, and a fully formed 5* for accounts that only have 10 5* is a 10% boost to their account because of 12 hours of bad servers, vs my 2nd dupe of KK who is one of 90 5* on my main.
Compensation is all relative and potentially affects the longevity of the game

I both agree and disagree with you.
U say you lost more then me... as far as AW is concerned, yes probably. But that’s not an issue here. Separate compensation for that.
Maybe in AQ as well so I can deal with you getting more for that. No problem.
But that has nothing to do with the overall game.
If you exclude AQ and AW the downtime affected us the same with very minor differences. So why are youre time, frustration etc worth more than mine?

I for one don't think anyone's time is worth more than anyone elses. To me, I view the inconvenience of the outage the same for everyone. I believe every player was affected the same (relative to their progression). Mostly because AW and AQ will be separate from this, removing it from the equation. Totally agree there. My argument for why the tiered compensation is fair gives a different reason. Which is that the items in the compensation had to be different...in order to be equal (in value).

Osfan8

DaRealMcCoy said:

heirDEZ said:

These compensations are weak.. only meant to benefit whales. Ugh this classism disgusts me..

Well at least somebody sees through this BS! Time & time again the developer reminds everybody that those who spend big $ or play this game as a full-time job are the ones who get the best stuff...

You aren't wrong BUT if it was your business, who would you cater to, the large, regular customers or the occasional customer who spends very little. As a business owner I know there's only one right answer to that.

Master_mischief69

Hai KABAM, I got the compensation rewards.. i only ask one thing...
Act 3 - Proven - 2500 five star shreds
Act 5 - Uncollected - 7500 shreds
At last
Act 6 - Cavalier - one five star hero crystal
But,
Where is... Act 4 - CONQUEROR.... All players who completed act 4 is also get the same as Act 3 why is that...??? My story quest progress is Act 5.2.4 but i got proven level of Compensation.. why is that???? I need separate rewards for act 4.... Did you get it guys??? If you give rewards by our story quest progress i need separate rewards for CONQUEROR..... @Kabam Miike

Snurris

I for one don't think anyone's time is worth more than anyone elses. To me, I view the inconvenience of the outage the same for everyone. I believe every player was affected the same (relative to their progression). Mostly because AW and AQ will be separate from this, removing it from the equation. Totally agree there. My argument for why the tiered compensation is fair gives a different reason. Which is that the items in the compensation had to be different...in order to be equal (in value).

Thanks a lot for you’re reply. And for not just saying “get over it”
I can start by saying that I’m actually happy with my compensation. I didn’t have those 7500 shards yesterday 🙃.
And while reading your reply I get what you mean and I agree. Same compensation for everyone would not be fair either so they have to diverse it somehow. The thing that got me going was the message that it sent to prioritize right or you’re not worth as much. Guess I’m going for Cavalier now... 😀 (I should actually have done that long ago. Just prioritized differently)

AshMoskov

Why UC and cavalier got different compensation while conqueror and proven got sama compensation???

SubExtaByte

AshMoskov said:

Why UC and cavalier got different compensation while conqueror and proven got sama compensation???

Beating maestro is ez,just as thanos cause he isn’t that much of a big deal,just dex his sp1 last hit or push him to sp2 while beating 6.1.6 crossbones “as far as I remember he is crossbones” is pretty hard for most of the uncollected players

Little_Crocodili29

Happy with the package, Kbm! Brightened up my crew's mood considerably after a rather gloomy week. *Thumbs up*

Hedron

Completing act 4 and getting the title(can't remember that name) is like an offense. You get all same as like completing act 3. No increments until you are uncollected. I think act 4 completing players should also get a different compensation just like uncollected and cavaliers.

Nopedrooo

heirDEZ said:

These compensations are weak.. only meant to benefit whales. Ugh this classism disgusts me..

You think only whales can make it to cavalier? I made uncollected without spending units and then played smart taking breaks from questing to collect revives and i only spent 100 units to become cavalier.. My effort paid off. The time i put into the game was taken into consideration and im pleased with the compensation... it was spot on. People dont need 5* champs to become uncollected, tbh.. but they do expect an unfair shortcut and it is just wrong.

Worknprogress

SubExtaByte said:

AshMoskov said:

Why UC and cavalier got different compensation while conqueror and proven got sama compensation???

Beating maestro is ez,just as thanos cause he isn’t that much of a big deal,just dex his sp1 last hit or push him to sp2 while beating 6.1.6 crossbones “as far as I remember he is crossbones” is pretty hard for most of the uncollected players

Crossbones is 6.1.5 actually. 6.1.6 is sentinel

Judge_Pain

Jester123 said:

Judge_Pain said:

Jester123 said:

DNA3000 said:

Jester123 said:

DNA3000 said:

Jester123 said:

DNA3000 said:

Roguefrogger13 said:

I get what all of you are saying about the compensation package reflecting current level of gameplay. However in my opinion they should have set up the Compensation packages based on average ranking in the AQ and war rating. Those were the areas affected. I realize another compensation package will be coming later on down the road having to do with these and that's good to hear. but the maintenance still affected everyone in my alliance in the exact same way and we all play on the same alliance quest map and the same war map yet everyone in my alliance got different compensation packages based on story mode progression. How is this fair if we are all up against the same level of difficulty concerning group game play content?

Nothing is absolutely fair. Your way, we'll have filler accounts in a masters alliances gets a ton of compensation, while a Cavalier player in a chill alliance gets a 3* crystal. Personally I think that's worse.

Plus, I don't consider AQ (I'm setting aside AW as that's going to be handled separately) the only noteworthy impact. It probably wasn't even the largest hit. AQ fights were fixed first, and AQ timers were reduced. That wouldn't make everyone whole, but it almost certainly made a lot of alliances whole, and those who were impacted were not impacted by as much as the downtime duration would suggest. Meanwhile we had people looped in content, losing fights, or just plain stuck unable to grind arena like they normally did. It was arena fights that were restored last and experienced the longest outage: some people could have lost basically their entire grind day. For people on the bubble, it could have cost them 5* shards (the rank changes between the two cycles that week suggest scores were depressed somewhat around the 10% cutoff).

A lot of areas of the game were affected in different ways, but we're not going to get hand crafted compensation for every single one of them. We need a proxy for them, and progression title is a better one than AQ ranking. It isn't perfect, but it probably correlates to overall game reward earning rates better than AQ rank, or prestige or rating which is how it has been done in the past.

At the end of the day, it comes down to this. We've done this both ways, with compensation packages being the same for everyone, and tiered. Way more people complain about flat than tiered. And that's pretty easy to explain: this is a progressional game. People who can't handle tiered rewards probably don't stick around long. The game self-selects for players who believe tiering is fair. So the people who think tiering is unfair are always going to be the minority.

That’s a very interesting comment, kabam decide on how they do compensation by how much we moan. Thats good to know

That is an interesting comment. But I didn't say that. What I said is that in games like this, the players who feel tiering is fair are going to be the majority, just out of self-selection. Game developers don't always do what the majority of their players say. But when it comes to subjective things like "what's fair" they do listen to what the majority of players' perspective is, because there's no objective definition of fairness that can absolutely guide them in situations like this.

At the end of the day, it comes down to this. We've done this both ways, with compensation packages being the same for everyone, and tiered. Way more people complain about flat than tiered

Am I reading that wrong then?

One of us clearly is, because I don't know which word I used incorrectly. That entire paragraph says nothing about Kabam, and only things about the players. It says that our playerbase self-selects for people who believe in tiered rewards tied to progression. It says literally nothing about Kabam's motives or reasoning at all.

Kabam certainly listens to players, but that's one factor in their decision making. When deciding what's fair, I would think an important consideration is "what would the majority of players think is fair." But that has everything to do with representing the interests of the players, and exactly nothing to do with "moaning." The best proxy *we* have on the opinions of the players are public comments on the forums and places like the Reddit. But they aren't perfect representations, so you have to take that with a large grain of salt.

But sometimes opinion is sufficiently overwhelming that you can make reasonable inferences. Did the players hate the 14.0 AW changes? Probably. Did they hate the initial compensation prior to the 200k AG one for 12.0? Probably. Do more players think tiered rewards are more fair than flat ones? Probably. Is that because there's less "moaning?" I don't think so: in fact I have to factor the moaning out when I make that determination. When I eliminate all the crazy hyperbolic nonsense from the discussions over the years, THEN I reach the conclusion that the majority of reasonable players prefer tiered rewards. I would imagine Kabam reached a similar decision.

Or to put it in a more direct way: I believe the majority of players prefer tiered rewards in spite of loud nonsensical complaints in either direction, not because of them.

WEVE DONE THIS BOTH WAYS
The words YOU used and if that’s not referring to kabam then I don’t know what is.

He never said the moaning caused Kabam to do anything. You said he claimed that. He said that they tried multiple options and that the current option is the one most agree is fair. That is all. You implied causation, not him.

So you explain this then....

We've done this both ways, with compensation packages being the same for everyone, and tiered. Way more people complain about flat than tiered.

There is no causation in that statement. He mentions the reaction everyone had. Not that the reactions caused Kabam to do anything.

If your hangup is on "we", then it is a silly one. It's not unlike fans referring to actions of their team as we. We, the players, have gone through both comp setups. I think you are being deliberately argumentative because you are upset you didn't get rewards tailored for people who put in more effort.