Second Medium Attack Knockback Distance Preventing Parry Follow Up For Some Champions

Certain champions, such as Symbiote Supreme and Guillotine, when fighting mid-screen are not able to consistently land a follow up parry after a regular 5 hit combo (MLLLM) because of the knock back distance of their second medium attack. The large knock back puts the enemy much further away from you which changes the AI's behavior and also the timing and consistency of the normal follow up parry. Any veteran player is able to identify and utilize the timing of a follow up parry after finishing a 5 hit combo and then having the opponent attack you immediately afterwards. This is a core mechanic of the fight system and the timing for the follow up parry is the same for almost every single champion in the game.

Some players might argue that having diverse timings and differences between champions is a natural part of a fighting game which I would agree with when it comes to heavy attacks, special attacks, and attack animations. However when it comes to a core mechanic that functions one way for 95% of the roster and differently for a few champions without being called out in their spotlights or developed that way on purpose I would disagree and say that it needs to be fixed.

Some of my favorite champions like Symbiote Supreme have had this issue for a long time and I would like to to see it addressed so that it doesn't feel punishing to play these champions since they lack a core fight mechanic when compared to the rest of the roster.

I know for sure that Symbiote Supreme and Guillotine have this problem. If there are other champions that have the same issue please list them.


  • iRetr0iRetr0 Posts: 1,209 ★★★★
    I gotta agree with you, I made a post regarding Human Torch's 2nd medium timing, and players claimed it's different timing, for a core mechanic like this, it shouldn't be. For special attacks, animations etc., of course.
  • NightMonkeyNightMonkey Posts: 46
    edited November 2019
    But did you know that "thanks" to this mechanic you can ALWAYS dashback-light intercept your opponent? I've been doing this for the longest time with character like Iceman, SS or Star Lord: MLLLM, dash back, the oppo will try to counteract with a light or medium and you can easily counter it with your light attack; which is something that I actually like cause it brings diversity into characters. I used to love Hood's ability to chain last medium into another combo if timed correctly, such a shame it's gone.
  • becauseicantbecauseicant Posts: 344 ★★★
    That technique is usable with any champion though and isn't related to the bug I've described @NightMonkey
  • GamerGamer Posts: 5,128 ★★★★

    That technique is usable with any champion though and isn't related to the bug I've described @NightMonkey

    It not useable for all champions try out Luke Cage vs dusa you can’t do it.
  • Uncle_Fatty_247Uncle_Fatty_247 Posts: 277 ★★
    You’re correct that it is a core mechanic, but understand that not every characters’ mediums, or basic hits for that matter, function exactly alike.

    A large number of them do, but some of the recent champs don’t, even if the difference is minuscule.

    Timing does play a significant factor, whether you agree with that or not; parrying is an underrated skill that not everyone is good at because being “perfect” at it takes some getting used to.
  • Haji_SaabHaji_Saab Posts: 3,384 ★★★★★
    I knew there was something off with Human Torch ... I keep missing parries after his second medium, the timing just seemed off. Now I know why.
  • iRetr0iRetr0 Posts: 1,209 ★★★★
    Haji_Saab said:

    I knew there was something off with Human Torch ... I keep missing parries after his second medium, the timing just seemed off. Now I know why.

    I noticed this when I played with him too, didn't Miike say all chanps have the same cadence to their attacks? We should see Star Lord, Iceman, Ghost Rider, Sym Supreme, Human Torch, and a few others fixed in that case.
  • BendyBendy Posts: 776 ★★★
    Noticed this with sl very annoying as I'm a sl player and using a light at end isnt like using a medium at end of the combo and it messes up the power meter a little and before doing a medium end combo u be able to parry always if they attack now it acts as a block as the opponent gets pushed back further
  • becauseicantbecauseicant Posts: 344 ★★★
    Mods any chance we can get an update on this? Is the team aware at least?
  • SeraphionSeraphion Posts: 330
    Wow. I just thought my reactions were to slow 🤔
  • becauseicantbecauseicant Posts: 344 ★★★
    Would be great to get an acknowledgement of the issue at least. It's very easy to reproduce, get any experienced player to try to parry with Symbiote Supreme mid screen after a combo ending medium attack and they'll see how off it is compared to the vast majority of other champions.
  • Speeds80Speeds80 Posts: 1,275 ★★★
    This is good analogy I Was fighting with rhino in arena vs an ant man and if I used medium to finish a combo he could just attack me before I could back away, A factor I noticed is that I can’t reliably back away-it just sticky feet’s me if I swipe when I used to be able to do. I have to swipe a fraction later in which case I am open to being run down before I can block. Timing has been all messed up for me since the 6.3 update, and as such I’ve put it on hold, not running those brutal nodes until timing is back to spot on
  • becauseicantbecauseicant Posts: 344 ★★★
    Sounds like a different issue Speeds80, maybe your device is lagging or something. This thread is specifically for the knock back distance on medium attacks being too far for some champions.
  • Gamesbond90Gamesbond90 Posts: 87
    This is not a new and it's definitely a bug.
    Don't do mediums, that's it. You won't get any reply from mods cuz they don't care about this issue.
  • iRetr0iRetr0 Posts: 1,209 ★★★★
    I don't know how you do it @Aryl, but I stilll haven't been able to manage it with Human Torch
  • Gamesbond90Gamesbond90 Posts: 87
    I was replying to OP.

    Solid bulletproof evidence you need?
    Open the link and check out the video on the comments on that thread.
    You might not be facing the issue, so please don't assume thats it's same for all.
    I do arena a lot, and I still face this daily with certain champs listed on that thread.
  • Gamesbond90Gamesbond90 Posts: 87
    I'll make this easy for you.
    Here's the bulletproof video

  • Gamesbond90Gamesbond90 Posts: 87
    Omg, @Aryl your comment doesnt prove wrong what is demonstrated in the video.

    AI dash in and they glitch a frame back to perform medium. Time stamp: 1:25

    Sure its not happening to you, that doesn't mean that its not happening to others.
    I was replying to OP, not disapproving what you showed in your gifs.

    That thread is an year old, I have adopted to it, I don't do mediums with certain champs anymore.
    If your gifs was the case for everyone, this thread wouldnt exist, would it?
  • becauseicantbecauseicant Posts: 344 ★★★
    Aryl said:

    The timing is just different and can be more difficult to achieve.

    This is the bug. The timing being off is the problem. I never said it was impossible to parry afterwards, just that the timing is much more strict and not consistent with 95% of the other champions in the game, hence my argument why I believe this is a bug and not a design choice.
  • becauseicantbecauseicant Posts: 344 ★★★
    edited December 2019
    Also great video @Gamesbond90, it perfectly highlights the issue, it's the knockback distance on some mediums that causes the issue, so thank you for posting it.
  • becauseicantbecauseicant Posts: 344 ★★★
    Now that the holidays are over any chance we can get this looked at?
  • Gamesbond90Gamesbond90 Posts: 87
    @Aryl comments are gone now. But he did provide a solid example that this is not happening on his side
  • DestroyerDestroyer Posts: 113
    She Hulk's heavy attack and many other champ's heavy attacks were brought in line with the majority of other champs. What is the difference with this issue? This needs to be fixed.
  • DestroyerDestroyer Posts: 113
    This also happens with Psylock. HT, SymSup, Guilly also def affected. What has changed Kabam? Is this a bug or an intentional change?
  • DestroyerDestroyer Posts: 113
    This is also happening with Mr. Sinister.
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