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Gladiator Hulk and Degeneration [Title edited for clarity]

SentryPillowSentryPillow Posts: 307 ★★★
edited February 2020 in General Discussion
Gladiator hulk is a popular champion for countering most passive DOT nodes and abilities. He works well for starburst and emp modification. However, he does not counter degeneration nodes and bane. This is the stupidest thing ever. It is clearly a passive effect, marked by the circular border that cannot be shrugged by champs like ghost or agent venom. It is a passive DOT effect and therefore should activate face me. However, this isn’t the case, and I remember Kabam giving a really dumb explanation sometime back on it (kind of like their explanation for not updating 1* colossus).
Post edited by Kabam Lyra on

Comments

  • Mike192Mike192 Posts: 603 ★★★
    Degen is active for most champions (like Cable or G2099) however I do agree about Bane. The only thing I feel that may play a role is that its a node and not an ability which makes sense, however, I am not a fan of that definition either. You can use Ghost+Hood to avoid bane damage anyway or Namor at sig 200.
  • KeepinItRealKeepinItReal Posts: 229
    edited February 2020
    @Mike192 I was agreeing with OP @SentryPillow about Bane & Passive Degen or DOT Nodes,..not all Degens just to clarify.
    Mike192 said:

    Degen is active for most champions (like Cable or G2099) however I do agree about Bane. The only thing I feel that may play a role is that its a node and not an ability which makes sense, however, I am not a fan of that definition either. You can use Ghost+Hood to avoid bane damage anyway or Namor at sig 200.

    Patchie93 said:

    I mean it's Kabam's game so yea they get to make the rules... don't like it don't play.
    There explanation was that bane and degen nodes are a 3rd type of effect and he simply wasn't designed to counter that.

    Once again Kabam's game their rules deal with it

    @Patchie93 I'm not & doesn't sound like the OP is saying Kabam shouldn't get to make the rules. We choose to play but doesn't mean we gotta agree with all or not express our pov in forums,...that's kind've what they are meant (for+ums = Forums) Lol Just that this rule for GHulk is "stoopid" or doesn't make sense. So why exactly does GHulks Face Me activate vs Starburst, EMP Mod Nodes Passive DOT, but not vs Bane, Brute Force Nodes (etc) Passive DOT???
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,873 ★★★★★
    edited February 2020
    There are no Champs that are Immune to Degen, to the best of my knowledge. It's the only Debuff you can't get around. Which is fair. There has to be something.
  • Darksun987Darksun987 Posts: 83
    To op, yeah it should work based on description...after all it is damage and it's being passively applied to you...but I guess they felt like it would make Gulk too good.
  • ChubsWhiteChubsWhite Posts: 461 ★★★
    Lol, you're right, that's how crazy this game is tho.

    But, I used my GHULK to destroy uncollected MOJO... his natural ability along with [willpower] and [salve] his degeneration wasn't really a problem.
  • Mike192Mike192 Posts: 603 ★★★
    Kerneas said:

    Logically, it makes no sense. But I get it. Bane is a node that requires quite a specific playstyle, but imo it makes the game more fun. If Ghulk shut this node down, it'd completely ruin Kabam's effort on making this node, which isn't too bad itself (I mean look at Caustic temper or Acid wash). Again, logically it should work. But I understand why it doesn't.

    Disagree gang, eat me. It really appears that daring to have differend opinion than op is not allpwed here.

    I mean a lot of people would still not use Gulk only because he can bypass or reduce 70% damage from bane because that still isnt enough to be a 'great' champion.
  • SeraphionSeraphion Posts: 1,197 ★★★★
    Kerneas said:

    Logically, it makes no sense. But I get it. Bane is a node that requires quite a specific playstyle, but imo it makes the game more fun. If Ghulk shut this node down, it'd completely ruin Kabam's effort on making this node, which isn't too bad itself (I mean look at Caustic temper or Acid wash). Again, logically it should work. But I understand why it doesn't.

    Disagree gang, eat me. It really appears that daring to have differend opinion than op is not allpwed here.

    By that logic there should be no counters for any node. Almost every node or effect has a counter. Thats how this game works. New nodes come in. Then there are champs who deal better with it and some dont do too well against it.

    For example ghost/hood synergy reduces bane damage to 0.
    You cant make a skill like Gulk and say well this might work and this doesnt work when its clearly in the discrpition.

    If they really want to not make Gulk work vs bane they need to write it in his discription.
  • Mike192Mike192 Posts: 603 ★★★

    Mike192 said:

    Degen is active for most champions (like Cable or G2099) however I do agree about Bane. The only thing I feel that may play a role is that its a node and not an ability which makes sense, however, I am not a fan of that definition either. You can use Ghost+Hood to avoid bane damage anyway or Namor at sig 200.

    how do you want to counter bane with namor...if you hit the opponent bane will transfer anyway...that does make 0 sense
    You can hit their block and, for example, if they are in Def. mode of Oscillate node, they almost never retaliate so you can transfer all 10 sec of bane damage on them. Yes, under normal fights it wont work that well but you can still do 4 hit combo into block and backdraft-light intercept to get a hit to transfer bane. Not the perfect method but it works.
  • OctoberstackOctoberstack Posts: 865 ★★★★

    Mike192 said:

    Degen is active for most champions (like Cable or G2099) however I do agree about Bane. The only thing I feel that may play a role is that its a node and not an ability which makes sense, however, I am not a fan of that definition either. You can use Ghost+Hood to avoid bane damage anyway or Namor at sig 200.

    how do you want to counter bane with namor...if you hit the opponent bane will transfer anyway...that does make 0 sense
    RE: Namor - hitting into block while fighting a defensive AI with Bane = damage transfer
  • KerneasKerneas Posts: 1,665 ★★★★
    Seraphion said:

    Kerneas said:

    Logically, it makes no sense. But I get it. Bane is a node that requires quite a specific playstyle, but imo it makes the game more fun. If Ghulk shut this node down, it'd completely ruin Kabam's effort on making this node, which isn't too bad itself (I mean look at Caustic temper or Acid wash). Again, logically it should work. But I understand why it doesn't.

    Disagree gang, eat me. It really appears that daring to have differend opinion than op is not allpwed here.

    By that logic there should be no counters for any node. Almost every node or effect has a counter. Thats how this game works. New nodes come in. Then there are champs who deal better with it and some dont do too well against it.

    For example ghost/hood synergy reduces bane damage to 0.
    You cant make a skill like Gulk and say well this might work and this doesnt work when its clearly in the discrpition.

    If they really want to not make Gulk work vs bane they need to write it in his discription.
    As I said, it makes sense LOGICALLY. Yes, it's in his description and it should definitely work on Bane. However, Bane is a node made to force you play you differently. It shouldn't be overcome by a couter imo, bcs nodes like this (Bane, Brute force, No retreat etc.) make the game more cgallenging. Bcs how are they supposed to make thae fame fun AND challenging? They can inflate the health pools and dmg, but it'd still be the same intercept-hit-bait-dex scheme. It'd be boring.
  • SentryPillowSentryPillow Posts: 307 ★★★
    @GroundedWisdom degeneration is a passive effect....there are champs who can deal with ACTIVE degeneration debuffs (ghost and agent venom). Passive effects like bane and other degeneration nodes should be a part of hulks face me (stating ALL passive DOT will provide the effects).
  • shadow_lurker22shadow_lurker22 Posts: 3,076 ★★★★★
    edited February 2020

    There are no Champs that are Immune to Degen, to the best of my knowledge. It's the only Debuff you can't get around. Which is fair. There has to be something.

    Yeah so mojo activates the death feild or whatever it is called and when you step in it (which is almost impossible not to) you get a nice degenerate that no champ is immune to how is that fair?

    I have only fought him once so if there is a way around it actually let me know.
  • @GroundedWisdom degeneration is a passive effect....there are champs who can deal with ACTIVE degeneration debuffs (ghost and agent venom). Passive effects like bane and other degeneration nodes should be a part of hulks face me (stating ALL passive DOT will provide the effects).

    Here's a question. How do you know Bane is a Passive effect? More directly: what's the definition of a "Passive effect?"

    A lot of people get this wrong: in fact almost everyone gets at least some of it wrong. For example, in this thread someone implied that the opposite of "Passive" is "Active" as in some degen is passive and some is active. That's false. There is no "opposite" of Passive. Passive is a type of effect. Buff is a type of effect. Debuff is a type of effect. "Active" is not a type of effect. An effect is "Active" if it is on at that moment. Passives are "active" when they are on, and "not active" when they are not on.

    [If you want to see this terminology in the actual game, look up the description for the Chthon's Cunning mode for Symbiote Supreme. Chthon's Cunning is a passive effect, and the description states that "while active..."]

    Some people assume that if it is not a Buff and not a Debuff it must be a Passive. But Bane the node effect is not a Buff, not a Debuff, and not a Passive effect. It is not a Buff, so you can't ordinarily nullify it. It is not a Debuff so you cannot shake it off with Debuff removing effects. And it is not a Passive effect, so it does not trigger effects that trigger off of Passive effects like Face Me. Some node effects are like this: they are not tagged as Buffs, or Debuffs, or Passives.

    In a sense, there is no opposite of Passive in the same sense there's no opposite of Bleed.

    People think Face Me is inconsistent, but Face Me is actually extremely consistent. What's actually inconsistent are the in-game text descriptions of the effects, not all of which completely describe what they are. Bane doesn't say what it is. People assume it is a passive because they think it has to be, because it isn't a Debuff. But that's not how it works, or for that matter has ever worked.

    If an effect is explicitly stated to be a passive effect and it deals explicit damage over time, Face Me should activate under its effects. If Face Me doesn't, that's a bug (whether it is a bug in Face Me or a bug in the effect's description is another story). But if a damage over time effect does not state whether it is a Passive or a Debuff and Face Me doesn't activate under it, that is presumably because that effect is not a Passive, whether people think it should be or not. An effect doesn't have to be one or the other.
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