Alliance War Matchmaking unfair [Merged Threads]

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  • AddyosAddyos Member Posts: 1,090 ★★★★
    Seraphion said:

    Addyos said:

    Seraphion said:

    GOTG said:

    The number of posts here only tell us one thing: the flawed matchmaking system has been used for so long that it creates a whole bunch of very weak alliances at high spots. They are not deserved to be there. They should be kicked out of high level wars. They should understand that they only got great rewards because Kabam made a mistake not because they are good enough.

    Cry, cry. I love to hear your cry.

    You are right. But try to see it from the other side. Not a lot of ppl knew how flawed the matchmaking was.

    So ofc their first reaction is:

    Woha what? This is so unfair.
    Give them time to understand.
    So you mean to say that you
    - place in Platinum 1 for multiple seasons for example,
    - compare your alliance to those around you in the Platinum 1 leaderboard,
    - observe a noticeable difference in size and prestige between your alliance and the others around you on the Platinum 1 leaderboard,
    - hardly ever face these alliances during a season despite being on the same leaderboard,

    and never saw anything wrong with that? Ok got it.
    Actuly I just understand that its broken 5 days ago when I saw a reddit post about it. Why would I go around and check other alliances in P1. Its annoying to do that in the app. Check on the leaderboard. Keep the name in mind (or tag) go to your alliance click on search. Put in the name etc. Thats why I ve never done that.

    And we placed P1 the last 2 seasons. We increased our prestige the whole time. But do you know how hard it is to break 10k if you dont spend? Most of us are free to play. Or spend very low.
    I am actually free to play as well, and in a top 90 AQ alliance who does a mixture of Map 7 & 6. I have a prestige close to 10.5k by
    - clearing monthly and some story content,
    - grinding arenas,
    - using the units earned from arenas and questing to buy deals for signature stones like those on the 4th July and Cyber Monday, and
    - having some luck in pulling champs worthy of taking to r5 sig 200.

    So being free to play has little to do with this issue as far as I am concerned. And I also quite disagree with not being able to check AW leaderboards. If @QuikPik could make a whole spreadsheet checking the prestige of the alliances in Platinum and Gold, what’s so hard in making a few taps to check the leaderboards?

    How would you keep track of your placement in war if you don’t check to see where you are on the leaderboards, and compare your standing to the other alliances above and below you?
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  • SeraphionSeraphion Member Posts: 1,496 ★★★★
    Gregdagr8 said:

    Seraphion said:

    Addyos said:

    Seraphion said:

    GOTG said:

    The number of posts here only tell us one thing: the flawed matchmaking system has been used for so long that it creates a whole bunch of very weak alliances at high spots. They are not deserved to be there. They should be kicked out of high level wars. They should understand that they only got great rewards because Kabam made a mistake not because they are good enough.

    Cry, cry. I love to hear your cry.

    You are right. But try to see it from the other side. Not a lot of ppl knew how flawed the matchmaking was.

    So ofc their first reaction is:

    Woha what? This is so unfair.
    Give them time to understand.
    So you mean to say that you
    - place in Platinum 1 for multiple seasons for example,
    - compare your alliance to those around you in the Platinum 1 leaderboard,
    - observe a noticeable difference in size and prestige between your alliance and the others around you on the Platinum 1 leaderboard,
    - hardly ever face these alliances during a season despite being on the same leaderboard,

    and never saw anything wrong with that? Ok got it.
    Actuly I just understand that its broken 5 days ago when I saw a reddit post about it. Why would I go around and check other alliances in P1. Its annoying to do that in the app. Check on the leaderboard. Keep the name in mind (or tag) go to your alliance click on search. Put in the name etc. Thats why I ve never done that.

    And we placed P1 the last 2 seasons. We increased our prestige the whole time. But do you know how hard it is to break 10k if you dont spend? Most of us are free to play. Or spend very low.
    If this FAIR system of matching via war rating continues and I hope it does. If you are not a 10k+ alliance, you will find it very hard to place in Plat 1 in the future. Let your ally mates know this now so they don't get mad and quit the game.
    Did that 12 hours ago :-D
  • SeraphionSeraphion Member Posts: 1,496 ★★★★
    Addyos said:

    Seraphion said:

    Addyos said:

    Seraphion said:

    GOTG said:

    The number of posts here only tell us one thing: the flawed matchmaking system has been used for so long that it creates a whole bunch of very weak alliances at high spots. They are not deserved to be there. They should be kicked out of high level wars. They should understand that they only got great rewards because Kabam made a mistake not because they are good enough.

    Cry, cry. I love to hear your cry.

    You are right. But try to see it from the other side. Not a lot of ppl knew how flawed the matchmaking was.

    So ofc their first reaction is:

    Woha what? This is so unfair.
    Give them time to understand.
    So you mean to say that you
    - place in Platinum 1 for multiple seasons for example,
    - compare your alliance to those around you in the Platinum 1 leaderboard,
    - observe a noticeable difference in size and prestige between your alliance and the others around you on the Platinum 1 leaderboard,
    - hardly ever face these alliances during a season despite being on the same leaderboard,

    and never saw anything wrong with that? Ok got it.
    Actuly I just understand that its broken 5 days ago when I saw a reddit post about it. Why would I go around and check other alliances in P1. Its annoying to do that in the app. Check on the leaderboard. Keep the name in mind (or tag) go to your alliance click on search. Put in the name etc. Thats why I ve never done that.

    And we placed P1 the last 2 seasons. We increased our prestige the whole time. But do you know how hard it is to break 10k if you dont spend? Most of us are free to play. Or spend very low.
    I am actually free to play as well, and in a top 90 AQ alliance who does a mixture of Map 7 & 6. I have a prestige close to 10.5k by
    - clearing monthly and some story content,
    - grinding arenas,
    - using the units earned from arenas and questing to buy deals for signature stones like those on the 4th July and Cyber Monday, and
    - having some luck in pulling champs worthy of taking to r5 sig 200.

    So being free to play has little to do with this issue as far as I am concerned. And I also quite disagree with not being able to check AW leaderboards. If @QuikPik could make a whole spreadsheet checking the prestige of the alliances in Platinum and Gold, what’s so hard in making a few taps to check the leaderboards?

    How would you keep track of your placement in war if you don’t check to see where you are on the leaderboards, and compare your standing to the other alliances above and below you?
    Why cant you belive that I just didnt check every single alliance? You only need to know their points to calculate season standings.

    And if you focus war you dont need prestige. So you focus on strong offense war attacker or strong defense. I just tried to explain that not every P1 with ~9.500 prestige tried to active abuse the old matchmaking ;)
  • DL864DL864 Member Posts: 1,089 ★★★
    Man this is deja-vu. When aw first started long before seasons prestige was used and the same thing happened you had ally's that were in tier one and getting those rewards that didnt belong there. So kabam started basing fights on war rating and guess what? What we are seeing this week is what we saw years ago mismatches bad ones. It will straighten it self out and ally's will fall back where they are supposed to be. For those of you that benefited from this broke system good for you guys and be happy with those rewards you got trust me I was in an ally the first time that knew we shouldn't be getting the rewards we were getting at the time. We were grateful and took the L's until we settled where we should have been to begin with.
  • DL864DL864 Member Posts: 1,089 ★★★
    walkerdog said:

    Some ideas to try to hybridize this and blend the two issues (top PI/Prestige allies got punished under old system while now people in gold/silver are getting DESTROYED too, probably unnecessarily).

    1. If you keep matchingmaking where it's prioritizing prestige or power:
    Do some sort of season-ending playoffs. Make them single war, or best of 3, events, 2-3 in a row, and make publicize them - record them on Kabam's end and put them on Youtube. Make them pay out really nice rewards (like an AQ week for the winner, and 1/2 or 1/3 that for loser). This playoff would only look at war rating. So you're looking at anywhere from 3 wars to 9 wars depending on the format that you use, and it'd be a way to both reward the strongest allies and give them shots at the "protected" weaker high war rating allies.

    2. If you keep matchmaking more heavily focused on war rating:
    Do SOME of the previous protection we saw for lower power/prestige allies in Silver and up into maybe Gold 2 or 3. They should still get a "reality check" match every 3rd or 4th fight, but if they can crush everyone of similar power/prestige and only lose when they're way overmatched, that's still pretty good and could be rewarded up until you hit low gold, imo. After that, over say, gold 3 to gold 2, phase that out. Then you're with the big boys/girls. From gold 1 up, it should be open season on anyone. If noname can crush people enough that they drop out of masters but maintain plat, that's pretty cool, but they shouldn't be protected into platinum/masters, imo.
    For this to be fair, you'd probably need to slightly expand silver and gold 3 so that you're not punishing higher PI allies who might otherwise get pushed down by the lower PI allies that they can't fight every single war, but only once ever 3-4 wars.

    3. Get rid of or limit the impact that Flow/Siphon etc can have. They're miserable and if you're in a top level ally they're simply another thing that requires units/$$ for AW which isn't THAT much fun under those conditions.

    How about this novel idea base fights on war rating. Why do you think we have war rating? It's not so 1 mil ally can duke it out with other 1 mil ally's and have the same rating/ rewards as 25 mil ally's. It's to show where you are at skill wise you know you're playing a skill based game. You dont have to be a spender to have a high war rating does it help yes but so does skill and progression of your account. After seeing the defense for that certain master level that probably shouldn't be there. I was blown away my ally gold 2 has a better defense. That's not saying they are not more skilled but they have to progress thier accounts.
  • Midknight007Midknight007 Member Posts: 770 ★★★
    This was brought up on the forums over 2 months ago.... in fact, I made a video about this is back then.

    AW matchmaking needs to be based on War Rating as the main factor. I feel for the alliances that benefited from the Prestige based matchmaking, but you were not fighting teams within the same bracket. There are alliances that were killing themselves to be in Platinum, that found themselves in Gold 1-2. If you are in a bracket, you should be able to fight at that level. If you cannot, you do not belong in that bracket.

    I am not in a Master Alliance but a Gold 1-2. It might be unpopular position, but there is no shame in a lose. I know it hurts now, but this should have been addressed when @QuikPik brought it up about 3 months ago. The correction would have been less impactful if it was changed back in January when Quik first mentioned this issue.

    Once things calm down and recalibrate, you will find yourself fighting teams with similar skill. If you are in a bracket, you should be able to compete... even against a top notch defense. If you need to spend on pots, boosts, revives... welcome to what those 9500-10500 prestige alliances do regularly. If you can’t clear the map, don’t spend... you are most likely in a bracket that is too competitive for your current setup.

    Unless you face harder matches, you cannot grow. Instead, you will become stagnant fighting the weaker teams that you regularly beat with ease judging by your inflated War Rating.
  • GOTGGOTG Member Posts: 1,040 ★★★★
    edited April 2020
    Kabam should change matchmaking system to war rating based system much sooner, but they refused to do it. They are slow and lazy and it causes frustration for alliances.

    But the system pushes Noname to number 1 in the world is just wrong and bs at maximum level.
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  • Roguefrogger13Roguefrogger13 Member Posts: 415 ★★
    edited April 2020

    This just wasn't cool 😢
  • Mr_PlatypusMr_Platypus Member Posts: 2,779 ★★★★★


    This just wasn't cool 😢

    Looks fine to me, similar war rating and one alliance landed gold 3, the other gold 2.
    You’re fighting over the similar rewards.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,575 ★★★★★
    DL864 said:

    walkerdog said:

    Some ideas to try to hybridize this and blend the two issues (top PI/Prestige allies got punished under old system while now people in gold/silver are getting DESTROYED too, probably unnecessarily).

    1. If you keep matchingmaking where it's prioritizing prestige or power:
    Do some sort of season-ending playoffs. Make them single war, or best of 3, events, 2-3 in a row, and make publicize them - record them on Kabam's end and put them on Youtube. Make them pay out really nice rewards (like an AQ week for the winner, and 1/2 or 1/3 that for loser). This playoff would only look at war rating. So you're looking at anywhere from 3 wars to 9 wars depending on the format that you use, and it'd be a way to both reward the strongest allies and give them shots at the "protected" weaker high war rating allies.

    2. If you keep matchmaking more heavily focused on war rating:
    Do SOME of the previous protection we saw for lower power/prestige allies in Silver and up into maybe Gold 2 or 3. They should still get a "reality check" match every 3rd or 4th fight, but if they can crush everyone of similar power/prestige and only lose when they're way overmatched, that's still pretty good and could be rewarded up until you hit low gold, imo. After that, over say, gold 3 to gold 2, phase that out. Then you're with the big boys/girls. From gold 1 up, it should be open season on anyone. If noname can crush people enough that they drop out of masters but maintain plat, that's pretty cool, but they shouldn't be protected into platinum/masters, imo.
    For this to be fair, you'd probably need to slightly expand silver and gold 3 so that you're not punishing higher PI allies who might otherwise get pushed down by the lower PI allies that they can't fight every single war, but only once ever 3-4 wars.

    3. Get rid of or limit the impact that Flow/Siphon etc can have. They're miserable and if you're in a top level ally they're simply another thing that requires units/$$ for AW which isn't THAT much fun under those conditions.

    How about this novel idea base fights on war rating. Why do you think we have war rating? It's not so 1 mil ally can duke it out with other 1 mil ally's and have the same rating/ rewards as 25 mil ally's. It's to show where you are at skill wise you know you're playing a skill based game. You dont have to be a spender to have a high war rating does it help yes but so does skill and progression of your account. After seeing the defense for that certain master level that probably shouldn't be there. I was blown away my ally gold 2 has a better defense. That's not saying they are not more skilled but they have to progress thier accounts.
    Sure. Just as soon as Alliances agree to stop Tanking and riding the system. Right around the same time Allies stop monopolizing the Leaderboars by occupying multiple places and hopping back and forth. I mean, if we're going to call it a fair gauge of results, let's keep it fair. Until then, it's about as useful as a perforated spoon, and twice as destructive.
  • xNigxNig Member Posts: 7,330 ★★★★★
    walkerdog said:

    DL864 said:

    walkerdog said:

    Some ideas to try to hybridize this and blend the two issues (top PI/Prestige allies got punished under old system while now people in gold/silver are getting DESTROYED too, probably unnecessarily).

    1. If you keep matchingmaking where it's prioritizing prestige or power:
    Do some sort of season-ending playoffs. Make them single war, or best of 3, events, 2-3 in a row, and make publicize them - record them on Kabam's end and put them on Youtube. Make them pay out really nice rewards (like an AQ week for the winner, and 1/2 or 1/3 that for loser). This playoff would only look at war rating. So you're looking at anywhere from 3 wars to 9 wars depending on the format that you use, and it'd be a way to both reward the strongest allies and give them shots at the "protected" weaker high war rating allies.

    2. If you keep matchmaking more heavily focused on war rating:
    Do SOME of the previous protection we saw for lower power/prestige allies in Silver and up into maybe Gold 2 or 3. They should still get a "reality check" match every 3rd or 4th fight, but if they can crush everyone of similar power/prestige and only lose when they're way overmatched, that's still pretty good and could be rewarded up until you hit low gold, imo. After that, over say, gold 3 to gold 2, phase that out. Then you're with the big boys/girls. From gold 1 up, it should be open season on anyone. If noname can crush people enough that they drop out of masters but maintain plat, that's pretty cool, but they shouldn't be protected into platinum/masters, imo.
    For this to be fair, you'd probably need to slightly expand silver and gold 3 so that you're not punishing higher PI allies who might otherwise get pushed down by the lower PI allies that they can't fight every single war, but only once ever 3-4 wars.

    3. Get rid of or limit the impact that Flow/Siphon etc can have. They're miserable and if you're in a top level ally they're simply another thing that requires units/$$ for AW which isn't THAT much fun under those conditions.

    How about this novel idea base fights on war rating. Why do you think we have war rating? It's not so 1 mil ally can duke it out with other 1 mil ally's and have the same rating/ rewards as 25 mil ally's. It's to show where you are at skill wise you know you're playing a skill based game. You dont have to be a spender to have a high war rating does it help yes but so does skill and progression of your account. After seeing the defense for that certain master level that probably shouldn't be there. I was blown away my ally gold 2 has a better defense. That's not saying they are not more skilled but they have to progress thier accounts.
    Sure! I'm not really against it, but if the playerbase as a whole hates that, then those were some ideas for blending the approaches but giving war rating importance.
    Sure.

    Sort all alliances enlisted in war by the following:
    - War Ratings first; followed by
    - Alliance Rating / Prestige

    Then #1 fights #2, #3 fights #4, so on and so forth.

    Eventually the leaderboards will even itself out.
  • buddy869buddy869 Member Posts: 4

    Alliance Wars are not solely based on any one factor, but you will be matched with Alliances near your War Rating. This is a performance-based rating that changes with your Alliance's wins and losses. Alliance Rating can be manipulated, so is not a good matchmaking comparison.

    We are continuing to work to improve our matchmaking parameters with every Season and even in between. Some Wars will be more difficult than others, but if you want to climb to the top, you're going to have to earn your spot!

    You want to make a fair true test of who's the best? Then make the tournament 4* and under. Then we can see who got the best skills. What you're doing now is rewarding a bunch of Leon Spinks. Very mediocre heavy weights and punishing the middle weight mayweathers. How are we manipulating the system? It is, what it is. Most of the mid size alliance members are ftp and can't possibly grow and compete with their size. But since economics is always involved, it's simple. Do the largest 300 alliances spend more then the rest of us? Don't think so. So why are you catering to them? I'm boxing terms, Mayweather sold or any fight and made more money then any heavy weight. So either go back to fair match ups or truly make it a skill tournament and only allow the use of 4*. And don't make any changes mid season. Is that too much to ask?
  • Umeshpatil707Umeshpatil707 Member Posts: 3
    Dear kabam,
    I have last war so hard.. Opponent was double rating than my alliance..plz take action about this..and give me suitable war for my alliance are
    Thank you
  • Umeshpatil707Umeshpatil707 Member Posts: 3
    Plz check last war rating and try to give me back..i give war as per my alliance rating..last one war is one handed war ..anyone can't won this war..i not good for playing...at starting we lose this war
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Member Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    DL864 said:

    Gregdagr8 said:

    That is 100% a fair matchup. Matchmaking should be done by war rating ONLY. NEVER EVER should ally rating or prestige come into the algorithm.

    If you enter any tournament in real life where all are welcome to participate, there will be uneven matches. Lets just say soccer. Remember, ANYONE can enter this tournament. Then a match comes with 5-6 year old kids vs 30 year old professionals. That is no where close to a fair matchup, but in a fair tournament where anyone can enter, these matchups HAVE to happen to determine the correct spots for the season rewards. Thank you Kabam for FINALLY matching via war rating ONLY. Please do not ever let prestige or ally rating enter the algorithm. Matching via war rating is the ONLY way to have a FAIR war season.

    It's almost the same as shelling alliances. They're purposely staying at lower war brackets. Ruins the experience for progressing alliances.
    Yeah. That’s what Lagacy and Seatins alliance does. Bunch of pansies....of course you win all the time when you cheat the system
    From what I understand they run 2bg wars they focus more on aq. That's pretty normal that's not cheating the system. A system built on prestige and awarding alliances that are not having to play the teams in thier tier seems more like cheating the system then just running 2 bg wars. Think about it this way. So let's say you're in gold 2 trying to get to gold1 and you see an alliance in gold1 you could obviously beat but they are thier cause they haven't had to face the same competition. So they will end up with better rewards while you faced tougher competition. Now does that seem fair?
    That's exactly what they do. Still T1 rating but run 2 bgs. Makes it less stressful if you aren't pushing for a top placement. Everyone just runs 2/3 of the season with a one bg off every war.
  • Rougeknight87Rougeknight87 Member Posts: 599 ★★★
    The system was broken, having a lower rating meant you were getting much easier matchups which resulted in a skewed leaderboard that heavily favoured a handful of alliances.

    It needed correcting and this is the result, it won’t be back to normal again until every alliance finds their level.


  • hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Member Posts: 2,219 ★★★★★
  • Das_giDas_gi Member Posts: 320 ★★
    @buddy869 you do know that a year ago 2600 war rating was enough to be in tier 2. Because of all the lower alliances with 3k alliance rating (that we couldn’t face till 2 wars back) the rating to be in tier 2 went up to 3k, also a lot of high war rating alliances were abandoned but still are considered tier 1 or 2 even though nobody is in them. So it’s much and much harder cause you need to get a higher rating than those low prestige alliances (that we couldn’t face) and those abandoned alliances. Also why would we use 4*’s if there are 5*’s and 6*’s? You can’t use 4*’s in act 6. Even with 4*’s most players in high prestige alliances would kick your ass in war. We have a few days that nobody uses a single item for all bg’s in map 7 aq. When you can do that, get back to me but for now stop your whining
  • ThecurlerThecurler Member Posts: 878 ★★★★
    I've recently fought in tier 4/5 with an 8.3k alliance, I'm currently in a 10k alliance.
    At 10k in tier 4/5 most of the fights are against r5 defender's, the nodes have the trickiest and often maxed out new defender's on them e.g. mojo, nova.
    At 8.3k in tier 4/5 you sometimes face r4 mini's, hardly face a r5 on a normal path fight.. sometimes you'll see r3's on the map.
    For me the matchmaking change is completely the right thing to do. I hadn't realised how broken prestige matchmaking was until I witnessed the difference in difficulty first hand.
  • Monk1Monk1 Member Posts: 758 ★★★★
    In 2 hours time this thread will blow up again when a load of over rated low stacked alleys get matched..

    Here is the simple logic To save 200 more posts. If you are sat in t2 with a 2900-3100 and a low prestige ally then don’t be surprised when you run into a 30-40m ally again.. it will happen for next 10 wars until u fall back to where you rather and hero’s belong
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  • Gregdagr8Gregdagr8 Member Posts: 385 ★★★
    My Ally is back to prestige wars. 641 spots away from us on the leaderboard but matched due to prestige. Anyone else?
This discussion has been closed.