Did defender kill points discourage you from playing war?

I feel like the excuse for removing defender kill points was pretty weak. I'm curious to see how many people actually feel that way. Did you feel discouraged because of it or not?

Comments

Mcord11758

New system is a joke and a mockery. It can't remain it's just a matter of how stubborn kabam is and how long they will try to keep it. Last update is just doubling down on stupid and i am sure screen shots will follow showing how many have found gimmicks to use the adjustment to out point their opponents. War was a head to head matchup of skill and game progression. Now it's a mathematical equation.

Run477

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

chunkyb wrote: »

Actually, those are all facts that disprove what you posted... Except the last part. That's a pov. But it's backed up by the rest of those facts.

Good Defenders and Bad Defenders is subjective and based on opinion. That's entirely dependent on who people prefer to use, most commonly the Champs that have a good amount of Kills. The issue was the lack of diversity in War. That is not Kabam's doing. Who people use is up to them. Which is why the issue was addressed.
Overpowered Matches were not only because of War Rating. We've seen many instances where War Rating has been close, but Allies are twice and 3 times the size of each other. Which ties in to the monopoly on Tiers. Though not considered an exploit, when there is an allegiance at the top for Allies to avoid fighting each other, that results in continuous Matches where the War Rating is very far off, and the opposition has very little chance. That is not only the monopoly, but it also results in a stagnancy because in a Tiered System, the top affects everything underneath it.
The Defender Kills were a contributing factor to the overpowering. The Ally literally had to die trying. Which means it's not really based on skill at all. Just who has the fattest Roster of the same few Champs who were known to cause many kills. That in essence created a Pecking Order that left very little opportunity for Players to advance easily. When the system Matches you and you have absolutely no chance to win, that's a problem.
It's all point of view.

I'm really having a hard time following your logic here. You make the unsupported claim that "good defenders and bad defenders is subjective and based on opinion." Then state that it is decided by which champs "people prefer to use" most commonly on which champs "have a good amount of kills." Those statements are contradictory.

One metric is objective--amounts of kills
One metric is subjective--who people prefer to use.

It is both objectively and subjectively true that duped Spider-Man is a better defender than spider Gwen. That's just fact.

If what you were saying was true, that defender greatness was merely a matter of subjectivity, then we wouldn't see all of the same defenders in alliance wars. The reason we do is bc kabam has given certain champs abilities that are helpful on defense (whether it be evade, hard to avoid specials, etc), and some champs that are attack based (power control champs and champs that have high damage potential but nothing that is really conducive to being successful when controlled by the AI). These are simply facts. Now that kabam has created the champs and the masteries the way that they did, they have decided they want to force people to utilize clearly less useful champs (which if you are like me, seem to be the most common champs that come from crystals) requiring us to spend resources on them.

That's obviously kabam' choice to make. But to pretend like every champ in the game is a good defender is just incorrect.

Voluntaris

The removal of defender kill points removes the majority of skill out of AW, in addition to making the fights much more boring.

You no longer feel the rush of being able to 1 shot a 4/55 duped 5 star Magik boss ... new system you get same amount of points with no consequences for reviving countless times to down the same boss.

#BringBackDefenderKillPoints

Run477

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

I'm not debating this anymore. Agree, disagree, that's up to you. I answered what I thought was a genuine question, even though I had a feeling it was going to be challenged. The subject is diversity in War Defense. That's why they give Diversity Points. I agree that there was a need. It has nothing to do with Mystic Dispersion, or repeat Champs in Quests. It's about encouraging the use of a variety of Champs in War. I've been debating the issue over multiple Threads and frankly, I'm over it. I registered my view. I answered the question as to the reasons. I could go on and refute every comment, but in my opinion this is going nowhere because people have their own feelings on it. Which is fine by me. I've said how I feel. I'm not getting into semantics about what is fact and what is not, or speculating on any other reason besides what is given. So, if that's how you feel, great. I have my own views, and we will have to leave it at that.

Wait, what??? Diversity score is not about mystic dispersion or repeat champs in quest? That was exactly what it was about. Kabam mike came out and said no longer would you have to fight multiple nightcrawlers or spider men in a row. However, the complaint literally EVERYONE made on here was about fighting multiple magiks with mystic dispersion. This change is so clearly aimed at effectively nerfing a popular strategy of mystics with mystic dispersion (or for those who make the subjective decision to not get md and try to power through offense and place evade defenders instead), i am not sure why anyone would argue against it.

Frankly, I think kabam should be offering reimbursement to people for the units spent unlocking mystic dispersion. I took it to max solely for defensive reasons (and I began working on it when my sole mamystic defender was an r4 magik and then I ranked up to r4 a UC--I later got Mordo and then dormamu in arena). I spent some loyalty got a few mystic cores in events, but the vast majority was units. I estimate I spent over 5,000 units getting to max mystic dispersion for defense.

I obviously know nothing about what tier war you are in or what your guys' wars are typically like, but i don't think it can be seriously debated that this change was to essentially dismantle mystic dispersion and/or evade defenses. The fact that they made the nodes so incredibly easy furthers that conclusion. If the tiles were remotely hard, it would still be conceivable that a team may try to put up a solid defense in opposition. 3 wars in. All 3 opponents have tried that strategy. All 3 wars we have 100% all bgs.

Run477

Voluntaris wrote: »

The removal of defender kill points removes the majority of skill out of AW, in addition to making the fights much more boring.

You no longer feel the rush of being able to 1 shot a 4/55 duped 5 star Magik boss ... new system you get same amount of points with no consequences for reviving countless times to down the same boss.

#BringBackDefenderKillPoints

I completely disagree. The defender kill points are meaningless in the new map. The only place on the map people should be constantly dying is the top right miniboss (status immune), maybe the front right miniboss (recovery if it's Mordo win max md and he refuses to use specials) front left mini (limber and unblockable l1), or the boss itself. The top left is not bad as long as you bring magik or voodoo. The front middle has been easy with a power control champ, but I haven't faced a Mordo or av there yet so maybe those would be more difficult.

Regardless, there is just not enough difficulty in these maps to overcome diversity points. Furthermore, if your alliance faces an alliance that are big spenders, you won't win anyway. They will start off an almost insurmountable number of points ahead of you just based on their "diverse" (read have newer champs and have red deadpool, kang, thanos, og vision) and rating (read how much they have spent on deals to get resources).

All that being said, I do see one way in which kill poojnts would matter. If both sides 100% diversity and clear, the current winnner is only defender rating (basically whoever has bought the most sig stone deals and t4cc/t2a deals for their account). Kabam could leave that in but at the same time add a death calculation so that "skill" might be able to overcome rating. I assume for kabam to do this, they would want a lower kill number score bc the war scorin really isnjust set up to allow the big spenders to "win" wars.

RagamugginGunner

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

chunkyb wrote: »

Actually, those are all facts that disprove what you posted... Except the last part. That's a pov. But it's backed up by the rest of those facts.

Good Defenders and Bad Defenders is subjective and based on opinion. That's entirely dependent on who people prefer to use, most commonly the Champs that have a good amount of Kills. The issue was the lack of diversity in War. That is not Kabam's doing. Who people use is up to them. Which is why the issue was addressed.
Overpowered Matches were not only because of War Rating. We've seen many instances where War Rating has been close, but Allies are twice and 3 times the size of each other. Which ties in to the monopoly on Tiers. Though not considered an exploit, when there is an allegiance at the top for Allies to avoid fighting each other, that results in continuous Matches where the War Rating is very far off, and the opposition has very little chance. That is not only the monopoly, but it also results in a stagnancy because in a Tiered System, the top affects everything underneath it.
The Defender Kills were a contributing factor to the overpowering. The Ally literally had to die trying. Which means it's not really based on skill at all. Just who has the fattest Roster of the same few Champs who were known to cause many kills. That in essence created a Pecking Order that left very little opportunity for Players to advance easily. When the system Matches you and you have absolutely no chance to win, that's a problem.
It's all point of view.

Wrong

chunkyb

You made really good points @Run477

I'd liken the other side of the discussion to someone being given a paint by numbers picture. Sure, you could say "I can paint this however I want to", and that would be true.. But you won't get the picture that was intended. With the old war, kabam laid out the proper outlines and if u wanted the best chance of success, you placed the right (or better defensive) champs. Or you could place whatever you wanted and hope the picture comes out.

Imo, this is all similar to the 12.0 nerfening. Enough players had the god champs, so things were changed. Now enough players had the desired defenders, and so things are changed.

Run477

chunkyb wrote: »

You made really good points @Run477

I'd liken the other side of the discussion to someone being given a paint by numbers picture. Sure, you could say "I can paint this however I want to", and that would be true.. But you won't get the picture that was intended. With the old war, kabam laid out the proper outlines and if u wanted the best chance of success, you placed the right (or better defensive) champs. Or you could place whatever you wanted and hope the picture comes out.

Imo, this is all similar to the 12.0 nerfening. Enough players had the god champs, so things were changed. Now enough players had the desired defenders, and so things are changed.

I actually didn't disagree with the nerfing of Thor and switch. And I had a switch that I spent money on to awaken (the infamous kabam deal at thanksgiving which was followed by nerfing). I strongly disagreed with the black widow and strange nerfs.

Thor and particularly witch made everything in the game cake. Even new things kabam introduced to try to counter switch really didn't work. So the choice was keep trying to make defenders and content even harder or nerf those champs. Was I really annoyed my switch was nerfed to the point that i don't even use her? Yes! They could have brought those champs down a peg but still left them as go to champs. But when I ran through all of rttl with essentially an r4 switch, it was pretty clear she was way stronger than intended.