Who do you think it’s the most well rounded champ of each class?

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  • Sarvanga1_Sarvanga1_ Posts: 3,898 ★★★★★
    Etjama said:

    NT's damage is much higher than Elsa's dude, he just takes a little ramp up...

    It is higher but not by a big margin.
  • SaltE_Wenis69SaltE_Wenis69 Posts: 1,508 ★★★★

    Etjama said:

    Etjama said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Etjama said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Claire
    Warlock
    Immortal Ibom
    elsa (Lol here comes the disagrees)
    Havok
    Venom

    Elsa , is an amazing character, easily top 5 skill champ.Well designed 100%, if they added an ability to purify debuffs without having a non damaging one on you she would soar to the top. My y like a rage mechanic
    "Easily top 5 Skill champ." 🤦‍♂️

    This is why Elsa is "hated on". People like you overrated her SOOOOOOOOO much.
    Elsa is Hated on , because people like me realize her worth. People like you say stealth is better because he has unstoppable. Elsa is not a domino , Elsa is a very powerful and effective champion. When is the last time you seen some 6* stealth suit gameplay aside from fun
    Y'all Elsa simps really hype up a bang average champ to look so much better than she actually is
    Elsa is an above average champ, you understand this. You just want to argue about something. She is a top 5 skill champ.
    Barely makes top 15 skill but go off queen
    Now that is a biggggggggggg exaggeration. Top 7 for me
    Meh, #12ish. Which is fine. She is a good champion and not every champ has to be at the very top of their class, they obviously can't be. But the fact that she's SOOO overrated is insane.
    Yeah shes great imo, the red numbers are insane and great utility etc. But saying she barely makes top 15 is actually like saying emma frost barely makes top 20
    It's not too far off though tbh. Barely top 10 would be dead on for me:
    Nick
    Ægon
    Stealthy
    Falcon
    Killmonger
    Mole Man
    Night Thrasher
    Hit Monkey
    Then there's this little group of Ronin, Gwenpool, Elsa, Kingpin, BWDO where I can't 100% decide who goes where. Though I think Elsa is in the bottom half.
    Don't agreee with that list but yeah even people who don't like Elsa know that shes at least top 10. IMO, kilmonger hits like a noodle, so does NT, gwenpool cant compare, neither does Ronin (sorry masterpuff), and BWDO is also worse then elsa imo. But why is Kingpin so low that chunky boi is great
    Killmonger has 10x utility Elsa has. NT hits decently hard with dupe, Gwenpool has a little utility and decent damage, similar to elsa. Ronin has a little utility and massive damage, and BWDO has almost no utility.
    agreed except you forget the fact that kilmonger hits like a noodle. NT hits decently with sig 200, and elsa has a decent amount of utility and hits hard

    edit: and how does that contribute with your argument that Ronin is better than elsa.
    KMs huge utility makes up for it. And sog 200 night thrasher has wayy more utility and damage than Elsa.
    Elsa hits above average and has meh utility.
    Ronin hits for maybe the hardest in the skill class with basic attacks. And his utility is ≈ that of Elsa.
    you said it your self sig 200. Plus how does Ronin have equal utility as elsa? Yes I know how convenient KM utilty is but its not fun taking like 100000000000000000000000000000000 hours on a fight if you can finish faster. Theres no specific utility peices that are SO important that would let kilmonger do fights elsa cant.
  • Texas_11Texas_11 Posts: 2,043 ★★★★
    Etjama said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Etjama said:

    Comment sent to the Abyss of Approval post-edit. 😑

    Stealthy ignores evade, unstoppable, and miss with better damage while Elsa ignores evade and shrugs non-damaging debuffs. I'm using him a ton in Act 6 explo while I haven't even bothered to R5 or R2 my 5 and 6* Elsas. And non-damaging debuffs aren't even that important to get rid of. I'd rather keep them and have free willpower 90% of the time. And it's not just Stealthy. I can name at least 8 Skill champs that do much more than Elsa. Nick, Ægon, Stealthy, Falcon, KM, NT, Mole Man, Hit Monkey, and I'd personally throw Ronin, Kingpin, and Gwenpool in there too to make 11 but though those are flexible.

    She can shrug off damaging debuffs if she is inflicted with a non damaging one. She can ignore evade , she can also fight stun immune very well, with easy intercepts , and a very simple Damage rotation, not to mention one of the highest crit rates in the games, she also gains a ton of power gain increase when her rounds expires.

    You talk the talk I will agree that :

    Falcon
    Nick
    aegon
    Maybe mole man

    Are better champions . You are reaching after that, you really are. Hit monkey is not better than her either.
    You're not using her for damaging debuffs, even if you can shrug them while you ahev non-damaging ones active. It's not in the least bit practical and it's completely worthless.

    Using her on stun immunes to create an opening once every 12 seconds makes no sense when you can just use anyone with better damage to finish the fight quickly or just use someone like KM or Mole Man in the same class that can create an opening on almost every single blocked hit. One opening every 12 seconds isn't helping much against stun immune.

    The rest of what you said, "Easy rotation, high crit rate, high power gain" is only talking about damage. And the only champs that I mentioned who have less damage than Elsa have far more than enough utility to not only compensate, but surpass Elsa quite easily.
    That’s not true; I use her all the time for vision AA and Hulkbuster. 12 seconds seems like a lot , but it’s really not just how falcons locked on seemed like a long time , but it’s not. Why bring up KM and Mole man for damage when they both aren’t known damage dealers? Come on.
  • Texas_11Texas_11 Posts: 2,043 ★★★★
    Etjama said:

    Etjama said:

    NT's damage is much higher than Elsa's dude, he just takes a little ramp up...

    It is higher but not by a big margin.
    You kidding? It's higher by a lot. 😂</blockquote

    Yes but takes two minutes to get into the rotation. NT does have a lot of damage, but Elsa kills quicker
  • Sarvanga1_Sarvanga1_ Posts: 3,898 ★★★★★
    Etjama said:

    Etjama said:

    NT's damage is much higher than Elsa's dude, he just takes a little ramp up...

    It is higher but not by a big margin.
    You kidding? It's higher by a lot. 😂
    Nope. You're using her wrong.
  • Texas_11Texas_11 Posts: 2,043 ★★★★
    Etjama said:

    Etjama said:

    Etjama said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Etjama said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Claire
    Warlock
    Immortal Ibom
    elsa (Lol here comes the disagrees)
    Havok
    Venom

    Elsa , is an amazing character, easily top 5 skill champ.Well designed 100%, if they added an ability to purify debuffs without having a non damaging one on you she would soar to the top. My y like a rage mechanic
    "Easily top 5 Skill champ." 🤦‍♂️

    This is why Elsa is "hated on". People like you overrated her SOOOOOOOOO much.
    Elsa is Hated on , because people like me realize her worth. People like you say stealth is better because he has unstoppable. Elsa is not a domino , Elsa is a very powerful and effective champion. When is the last time you seen some 6* stealth suit gameplay aside from fun
    Y'all Elsa simps really hype up a bang average champ to look so much better than she actually is
    Elsa is an above average champ, you understand this. You just want to argue about something. She is a top 5 skill champ.
    Barely makes top 15 skill but go off queen
    Now that is a biggggggggggg exaggeration. Top 7 for me
    Meh, #12ish. Which is fine. She is a good champion and not every champ has to be at the very top of their class, they obviously can't be. But the fact that she's SOOO overrated is insane.
    Yeah shes great imo, the red numbers are insane and great utility etc. But saying she barely makes top 15 is actually like saying emma frost barely makes top 20
    It's not too far off though tbh. Barely top 10 would be dead on for me:
    Nick
    Ægon
    Stealthy
    Falcon
    Killmonger
    Mole Man
    Night Thrasher
    Hit Monkey
    Then there's this little group of Ronin, Gwenpool, Elsa, Kingpin, BWDO where I can't 100% decide who goes where. Though I think Elsa is in the bottom half.
    Don't agreee with that list but yeah even people who don't like Elsa know that shes at least top 10. IMO, kilmonger hits like a noodle, so does NT, gwenpool cant compare, neither does Ronin (sorry masterpuff), and BWDO is also worse then elsa imo. But why is Kingpin so low that chunky boi is great
    Killmonger has 10x utility Elsa has. NT hits decently hard with dupe, Gwenpool has a little utility and decent damage, similar to elsa. Ronin has a little utility and massive damage, and BWDO has almost no utility.
    agreed except you forget the fact that kilmonger hits like a noodle. NT hits decently with sig 200, and elsa has a decent amount of utility and hits hard

    edit: and how does that contribute with your argument that Ronin is better than elsa.
    KMs huge utility makes up for it. And sog 200 night thrasher has wayy more utility and damage than Elsa.
    Elsa hits above average and has meh utility.
    Ronin hits for maybe the hardest in the skill class with basic attacks. And his utility is ≈ that of Elsa.
    you said it your self sig 200. Plus how does Ronin have equal utility as elsa? Yes I know how convenient KM utilty is but its not fun taking like 100000000000000000000000000000000 hours on a fight if you can finish faster. Theres no specific utility peices that are SO important that would let kilmonger do fights elsa cant.
    So what if it needs sig 200? Why should it matter. I hear this dumb argument against characters all the time but if you're talking about how good they are, why stoop them down to a lower level? And have you even used Killmonger? Or are you just taking a YouTuber's word for it? Cuz the only videos talking about Killmonger's damage that I've seen have him at low sig and they don't use him properly. His damage is very good.
    I’m not saying Killmonger damage is not good, just not better than Elsa . His true strike is nice, his unstoppable is decent. But his damage is slightly above average
  • Thicco_ModeThicco_Mode Posts: 8,836 ★★★★★

    Etjama said:

    Etjama said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Etjama said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Claire
    Warlock
    Immortal Ibom
    elsa (Lol here comes the disagrees)
    Havok
    Venom

    Elsa , is an amazing character, easily top 5 skill champ.Well designed 100%, if they added an ability to purify debuffs without having a non damaging one on you she would soar to the top. My y like a rage mechanic
    "Easily top 5 Skill champ." 🤦‍♂️

    This is why Elsa is "hated on". People like you overrated her SOOOOOOOOO much.
    Elsa is Hated on , because people like me realize her worth. People like you say stealth is better because he has unstoppable. Elsa is not a domino , Elsa is a very powerful and effective champion. When is the last time you seen some 6* stealth suit gameplay aside from fun
    Y'all Elsa simps really hype up a bang average champ to look so much better than she actually is
    Elsa is an above average champ, you understand this. You just want to argue about something. She is a top 5 skill champ.
    Barely makes top 15 skill but go off queen
    Now that is a biggggggggggg exaggeration. Top 7 for me
    Meh, #12ish. Which is fine. She is a good champion and not every champ has to be at the very top of their class, they obviously can't be. But the fact that she's SOOO overrated is insane.
    Yeah shes great imo, the red numbers are insane and great utility etc. But saying she barely makes top 15 is actually like saying emma frost barely makes top 20
    It's not too far off though tbh. Barely top 10 would be dead on for me:
    Nick
    Ægon
    Stealthy
    Falcon
    Killmonger
    Mole Man
    Night Thrasher
    Hit Monkey
    Then there's this little group of Ronin, Gwenpool, Elsa, Kingpin, BWDO where I can't 100% decide who goes where. Though I think Elsa is in the bottom half.
    Don't agreee with that list but yeah even people who don't like Elsa know that shes at least top 10. IMO, kilmonger hits like a noodle, so does NT, gwenpool cant compare, neither does Ronin (sorry masterpuff), and BWDO is also worse then elsa imo. But why is Kingpin so low that chunky boi is great
    Killmonger has 10x utility Elsa has. NT hits decently hard with dupe, Gwenpool has a little utility and decent damage, similar to elsa. Ronin has a little utility and massive damage, and BWDO has almost no utility.
    agreed except you forget the fact that kilmonger hits like a noodle. NT hits decently with sig 200, and elsa has a decent amount of utility and hits hard

    edit: and how does that contribute with your argument that Ronin is better than elsa.
    KMs huge utility makes up for it. And sog 200 night thrasher has wayy more utility and damage than Elsa.
    Elsa hits above average and has meh utility.
    Ronin hits for maybe the hardest in the skill class with basic attacks. And his utility is ≈ that of Elsa.
    . Theres no specific utility peices that are SO important that would let kilmonger do fights elsa cant.
    that's just flat out wrong lol. last time I checked elsa couldn't tank sp3s or counter autoblock. I had more comments but they all got sent to aoa do I'm not wasting more of my time here
  • Texas_11Texas_11 Posts: 2,043 ★★★★

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Etjama said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Claire
    Warlock
    Immortal Ibom
    elsa (Lol here comes the disagrees)
    Havok
    Venom

    Elsa , is an amazing character, easily top 5 skill champ.Well designed 100%, if they added an ability to purify debuffs without having a non damaging one on you she would soar to the top. My y like a rage mechanic
    "Easily top 5 Skill champ." 🤦‍♂️

    This is why Elsa is "hated on". People like you overrated her SOOOOOOOOO much.
    Elsa is Hated on , because people like me realize her worth. People like you say stealth is better because he has unstoppable. Elsa is not a domino , Elsa is a very powerful and effective champion. When is the last time you seen some 6* stealth suit gameplay aside from fun
    Y'all Elsa simps really hype up a bang average champ to look so much better than she actually is
    Elsa is an above average champ, you understand this. You just want to argue about something. She is a top 5 skill champ.
    Barely makes top 15 skill but go off queen
    Just silly. You only see stealth ranked up for prestige , most of the champs that we are talking about is hardly anyone’s go to R3 champs.

    Ronin - Fun
    Stealth - Prestige
    Aegon- Effective
    Gwenpool - fun
    Falcon - Effective
    Gwenpool- fun
    NT- fun
    Kingpin - Fun
    Moleman- effective
    Hit monkey- Fun and prestige
    Elsa -Effective
    Nick fury - effective
    Killmonger- Niche
  • Texas_11Texas_11 Posts: 2,043 ★★★★

    Etjama said:

    Etjama said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Etjama said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Claire
    Warlock
    Immortal Ibom
    elsa (Lol here comes the disagrees)
    Havok
    Venom

    Elsa , is an amazing character, easily top 5 skill champ.Well designed 100%, if they added an ability to purify debuffs without having a non damaging one on you she would soar to the top. My y like a rage mechanic
    "Easily top 5 Skill champ." 🤦‍♂️

    This is why Elsa is "hated on". People like you overrated her SOOOOOOOOO much.
    Elsa is Hated on , because people like me realize her worth. People like you say stealth is better because he has unstoppable. Elsa is not a domino , Elsa is a very powerful and effective champion. When is the last time you seen some 6* stealth suit gameplay aside from fun
    Y'all Elsa simps really hype up a bang average champ to look so much better than she actually is
    Elsa is an above average champ, you understand this. You just want to argue about something. She is a top 5 skill champ.
    Barely makes top 15 skill but go off queen
    Now that is a biggggggggggg exaggeration. Top 7 for me
    Meh, #12ish. Which is fine. She is a good champion and not every champ has to be at the very top of their class, they obviously can't be. But the fact that she's SOOO overrated is insane.
    Yeah shes great imo, the red numbers are insane and great utility etc. But saying she barely makes top 15 is actually like saying emma frost barely makes top 20
    It's not too far off though tbh. Barely top 10 would be dead on for me:
    Nick
    Ægon
    Stealthy
    Falcon
    Killmonger
    Mole Man
    Night Thrasher
    Hit Monkey
    Then there's this little group of Ronin, Gwenpool, Elsa, Kingpin, BWDO where I can't 100% decide who goes where. Though I think Elsa is in the bottom half.
    Don't agreee with that list but yeah even people who don't like Elsa know that shes at least top 10. IMO, kilmonger hits like a noodle, so does NT, gwenpool cant compare, neither does Ronin (sorry masterpuff), and BWDO is also worse then elsa imo. But why is Kingpin so low that chunky boi is great
    Killmonger has 10x utility Elsa has. NT hits decently hard with dupe, Gwenpool has a little utility and decent damage, similar to elsa. Ronin has a little utility and massive damage, and BWDO has almost no utility.
    agreed except you forget the fact that kilmonger hits like a noodle. NT hits decently with sig 200, and elsa has a decent amount of utility and hits hard

    edit: and how does that contribute with your argument that Ronin is better than elsa.
    KMs huge utility makes up for it. And sog 200 night thrasher has wayy more utility and damage than Elsa.
    Elsa hits above average and has meh utility.
    Ronin hits for maybe the hardest in the skill class with basic attacks. And his utility is ≈ that of Elsa.
    Love ronin don’t get me wrong, but he can’t do anything effective but shrug off debuffs, he is a master of none. Great DPS though.
  • Sarvanga1_Sarvanga1_ Posts: 3,898 ★★★★★
    Etjama said:

    Etjama said:

    Etjama said:

    NT's damage is much higher than Elsa's dude, he just takes a little ramp up...

    It is higher but not by a big margin.
    You kidding? It's higher by a lot. 😂
    Nope. You're using her wrong.
    Dude. No. Once he's ramped up, the damage is much higher. Consistent 14k mediums, 9k lights, and 70k Sp2's? Really?
    Yes he has all that but it takes time to reach there. Elsa has consistent damage throughout so the time in which nt finishes a fight is not much less than elsa.
  • Texas_11Texas_11 Posts: 2,043 ★★★★
    Etjama said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Etjama said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Etjama said:

    Comment sent to the Abyss of Approval post-edit. 😑

    Stealthy ignores evade, unstoppable, and miss with better damage while Elsa ignores evade and shrugs non-damaging debuffs. I'm using him a ton in Act 6 explo while I haven't even bothered to R5 or R2 my 5 and 6* Elsas. And non-damaging debuffs aren't even that important to get rid of. I'd rather keep them and have free willpower 90% of the time. And it's not just Stealthy. I can name at least 8 Skill champs that do much more than Elsa. Nick, Ægon, Stealthy, Falcon, KM, NT, Mole Man, Hit Monkey, and I'd personally throw Ronin, Kingpin, and Gwenpool in there too to make 11 but though those are flexible.

    She can shrug off damaging debuffs if she is inflicted with a non damaging one. She can ignore evade , she can also fight stun immune very well, with easy intercepts , and a very simple Damage rotation, not to mention one of the highest crit rates in the games, she also gains a ton of power gain increase when her rounds expires.

    You talk the talk I will agree that :

    Falcon
    Nick
    aegon
    Maybe mole man

    Are better champions . You are reaching after that, you really are. Hit monkey is not better than her either.
    You're not using her for damaging debuffs, even if you can shrug them while you ahev non-damaging ones active. It's not in the least bit practical and it's completely worthless.

    Using her on stun immunes to create an opening once every 12 seconds makes no sense when you can just use anyone with better damage to finish the fight quickly or just use someone like KM or Mole Man in the same class that can create an opening on almost every single blocked hit. One opening every 12 seconds isn't helping much against stun immune.

    The rest of what you said, "Easy rotation, high crit rate, high power gain" is only talking about damage. And the only champs that I mentioned who have less damage than Elsa have far more than enough utility to not only compensate, but surpass Elsa quite easily.
    That’s not true; I use her all the time for vision AA and Hulkbuster. 12 seconds seems like a lot , but it’s really not just how falcons locked on seemed like a long time , but it’s not. Why bring up KM and Mole man for damage when they both aren’t known damage dealers? Come on.
    She only has a chance to shrug those specific debuffs, those situations are extremely niche, and she's going to take damage anyways. Why use her when there are 50 better options? And what are you on about? The only time I brought up their damage is when their damage was called bad. Which it isn't. I'm not talking about them as damage dealers, but instead utility machines that do much more than Elsa.
    Can Killmonger shrug a debuff off? Can kill monger bypass resistances? Can Killmonger inflict coldsnap or incinerate? Does Killmonger have passive heal block
  • Sarvanga1_Sarvanga1_ Posts: 3,898 ★★★★★
    Etjama said:

    Etjama said:

    Etjama said:

    Etjama said:

    NT's damage is much higher than Elsa's dude, he just takes a little ramp up...

    It is higher but not by a big margin.
    You kidding? It's higher by a lot. 😂
    Nope. You're using her wrong.
    Dude. No. Once he's ramped up, the damage is much higher. Consistent 14k mediums, 9k lights, and 70k Sp2's? Really?
    Yes he has all that but it takes time to reach there. Elsa has consistent damage throughout so the time in which nt finishes a fight is not much less than elsa.
    That's not the point though. The point is that NT was called a noodle when his damage is technically much higher. It takes a little bit of time to get there, but that's not the point. The point is that he outdamages her. And it's not a question.
    I didn't call him noodle. I am just talking about the average damage in the fight. And yeah I know he outdamages her.
  • Texas_11Texas_11 Posts: 2,043 ★★★★
    Etjama said:

    Etjama said:

    Etjama said:

    Etjama said:

    NT's damage is much higher than Elsa's dude, he just takes a little ramp up...

    It is higher but not by a big margin.
    You kidding? It's higher by a lot. 😂
    Nope. You're using her wrong.
    Dude. No. Once he's ramped up, the damage is much higher. Consistent 14k mediums, 9k lights, and 70k Sp2's? Really?
    Yes he has all that but it takes time to reach there. Elsa has consistent damage throughout so the time in which nt finishes a fight is not much less than elsa.
    That's not the point though. The point is that NT was called a noodle when his damage is technically much higher. It takes a little bit of time to get there, but that's not the point. The point is that he outdamages her. And it's not a question.
    But who has time for that? That’s like saying IMIW has the highest damage potential in the game but it takes awhile. NT is amazing a full signature, but it’s for fun, not for actual business: Elsa handles business quick and in an hurry.
  • MasterpuffMasterpuff Posts: 5,688 ★★★★★

    Etjama said:

    Etjama said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Etjama said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Claire
    Warlock
    Immortal Ibom
    elsa (Lol here comes the disagrees)
    Havok
    Venom

    Elsa , is an amazing character, easily top 5 skill champ.Well designed 100%, if they added an ability to purify debuffs without having a non damaging one on you she would soar to the top. My y like a rage mechanic
    "Easily top 5 Skill champ." 🤦‍♂️

    This is why Elsa is "hated on". People like you overrated her SOOOOOOOOO much.
    Elsa is Hated on , because people like me realize her worth. People like you say stealth is better because he has unstoppable. Elsa is not a domino , Elsa is a very powerful and effective champion. When is the last time you seen some 6* stealth suit gameplay aside from fun
    Y'all Elsa simps really hype up a bang average champ to look so much better than she actually is
    Elsa is an above average champ, you understand this. You just want to argue about something. She is a top 5 skill champ.
    Barely makes top 15 skill but go off queen
    Now that is a biggggggggggg exaggeration. Top 7 for me
    Meh, #12ish. Which is fine. She is a good champion and not every champ has to be at the very top of their class, they obviously can't be. But the fact that she's SOOO overrated is insane.
    Yeah shes great imo, the red numbers are insane and great utility etc. But saying she barely makes top 15 is actually like saying emma frost barely makes top 20
    It's not too far off though tbh. Barely top 10 would be dead on for me:
    Nick
    Ægon
    Stealthy
    Falcon
    Killmonger
    Mole Man
    Night Thrasher
    Hit Monkey
    Then there's this little group of Ronin, Gwenpool, Elsa, Kingpin, BWDO where I can't 100% decide who goes where. Though I think Elsa is in the bottom half.
    Don't agreee with that list but yeah even people who don't like Elsa know that shes at least top 10. IMO, kilmonger hits like a noodle, so does NT, gwenpool cant compare, neither does Ronin (sorry masterpuff), and BWDO is also worse then elsa imo. But why is Kingpin so low that chunky boi is great
    Killmonger has 10x utility Elsa has. NT hits decently hard with dupe, Gwenpool has a little utility and decent damage, similar to elsa. Ronin has a little utility and massive damage, and BWDO has almost no utility.
    agreed except you forget the fact that kilmonger hits like a noodle. NT hits decently with sig 200, and elsa has a decent amount of utility and hits hard

    edit: and how does that contribute with your argument that Ronin is better than elsa.
    KMs huge utility makes up for it. And sog 200 night thrasher has wayy more utility and damage than Elsa.
    Elsa hits above average and has meh utility.
    Ronin hits for maybe the hardest in the skill class with basic attacks. And his utility is ≈ that of Elsa.
    you said it your self sig 200. Plus how does Ronin have equal utility as elsa? Yes I know how convenient KM utilty is but its not fun taking like 100000000000000000000000000000000 hours on a fight if you can finish faster. Theres no specific utility peices that are SO important that would let kilmonger do fights elsa cant.
    Elsa has an average evade counter, gets wrecked vs anyone immune to debuffs, has the parry-evade which i love and think is her best utility. And not much else. Ronin has really really good sustainability through the block in guard stance, as well as some ok aar and crit through block which is cool. He also has a disorient off his sp1 which we have seen is valuable in both Cav EQ and Act 7.
  • Texas_11Texas_11 Posts: 2,043 ★★★★
    Etjama said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Etjama said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Etjama said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Etjama said:

    Comment sent to the Abyss of Approval post-edit. 😑

    Stealthy ignores evade, unstoppable, and miss with better damage while Elsa ignores evade and shrugs non-damaging debuffs. I'm using him a ton in Act 6 explo while I haven't even bothered to R5 or R2 my 5 and 6* Elsas. And non-damaging debuffs aren't even that important to get rid of. I'd rather keep them and have free willpower 90% of the time. And it's not just Stealthy. I can name at least 8 Skill champs that do much more than Elsa. Nick, Ægon, Stealthy, Falcon, KM, NT, Mole Man, Hit Monkey, and I'd personally throw Ronin, Kingpin, and Gwenpool in there too to make 11 but though those are flexible.

    She can shrug off damaging debuffs if she is inflicted with a non damaging one. She can ignore evade , she can also fight stun immune very well, with easy intercepts , and a very simple Damage rotation, not to mention one of the highest crit rates in the games, she also gains a ton of power gain increase when her rounds expires.

    You talk the talk I will agree that :

    Falcon
    Nick
    aegon
    Maybe mole man

    Are better champions . You are reaching after that, you really are. Hit monkey is not better than her either.
    You're not using her for damaging debuffs, even if you can shrug them while you ahev non-damaging ones active. It's not in the least bit practical and it's completely worthless.

    Using her on stun immunes to create an opening once every 12 seconds makes no sense when you can just use anyone with better damage to finish the fight quickly or just use someone like KM or Mole Man in the same class that can create an opening on almost every single blocked hit. One opening every 12 seconds isn't helping much against stun immune.

    The rest of what you said, "Easy rotation, high crit rate, high power gain" is only talking about damage. And the only champs that I mentioned who have less damage than Elsa have far more than enough utility to not only compensate, but surpass Elsa quite easily.
    That’s not true; I use her all the time for vision AA and Hulkbuster. 12 seconds seems like a lot , but it’s really not just how falcons locked on seemed like a long time , but it’s not. Why bring up KM and Mole man for damage when they both aren’t known damage dealers? Come on.
    She only has a chance to shrug those specific debuffs, those situations are extremely niche, and she's going to take damage anyways. Why use her when there are 50 better options? And what are you on about? The only time I brought up their damage is when their damage was called bad. Which it isn't. I'm not talking about them as damage dealers, but instead utility machines that do much more than Elsa.
    Can Killmonger shrug a debuff off? Can kill monger bypass resistances? Can Killmonger inflict coldsnap or incinerate? Does Killmonger have passive heal block
    Lol. Really? The bias is unreal. Ronin has no utility in his ability to shrug off all debuffs, but Elsa's ability to only shrug non-damaging ones counts? And coldsnap+incinerate? Really? I could ask if she can bleed the opponent but I won't cause that's dumb and doesn't count as utility. And passive heal block? You mean when you have a short suicide bleed on you? That's quite honestly the worst example of a heal block in the game.

    Putting all that half-assed excuse for utility aside, yes. KM does bypass resistances. Much better than Elsa in fact. Not to mention he can tank Sp3's and ignore auto-block. Plus his ability to intercept the opponent and counter stun immune is 10× that of Elsa who can do that only once every 12 seconds.

    Anyways, I'm done here. We're obviously never changing each other's minds but I just hate that the overrating of a character I actually did love has absolutely ruined her for me.

    At least we can agree on one thing.
  • MasterpuffMasterpuff Posts: 5,688 ★★★★★
    Let me make something clear. Ronin and Elsa are both not top 7 most likely. They do not have amazing utility and where Elsa outshines Ronin(a little) in utility he makes up for it with damage. They both have their uses, but neither are top tier.

    In my opinion, they are both enjoyment champs. Neither will do a ton for you and every piece of utility they have can be done better by someone else. I think Gwenpool(kinda) and BWDO also fall under this umbrella.
  • MasterpuffMasterpuff Posts: 5,688 ★★★★★
    HI_guys said:

    Let me make something clear. Ronin and Elsa are both not top 7 most likely. They do not have amazing utility and where Elsa outshines Ronin(a little) in utility he makes up for it with damage. They both have their uses, but neither are top tier.

    In my opinion, they are both enjoyment champs. Neither will do a ton for you and every piece of utility they have can be done better by someone else. I think Gwenpool(kinda) and BWDO also fall under this umbrella.

    Elsa worked pretty well for airwalker for me
    Thats not really much of a feat.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 12,436 Guardian
    Texas_11 said:

    Etjama said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Etjama said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Etjama said:

    Comment sent to the Abyss of Approval post-edit. 😑

    Stealthy ignores evade, unstoppable, and miss with better damage while Elsa ignores evade and shrugs non-damaging debuffs. I'm using him a ton in Act 6 explo while I haven't even bothered to R5 or R2 my 5 and 6* Elsas. And non-damaging debuffs aren't even that important to get rid of. I'd rather keep them and have free willpower 90% of the time. And it's not just Stealthy. I can name at least 8 Skill champs that do much more than Elsa. Nick, Ægon, Stealthy, Falcon, KM, NT, Mole Man, Hit Monkey, and I'd personally throw Ronin, Kingpin, and Gwenpool in there too to make 11 but though those are flexible.

    She can shrug off damaging debuffs if she is inflicted with a non damaging one. She can ignore evade , she can also fight stun immune very well, with easy intercepts , and a very simple Damage rotation, not to mention one of the highest crit rates in the games, she also gains a ton of power gain increase when her rounds expires.

    You talk the talk I will agree that :

    Falcon
    Nick
    aegon
    Maybe mole man

    Are better champions . You are reaching after that, you really are. Hit monkey is not better than her either.
    You're not using her for damaging debuffs, even if you can shrug them while you ahev non-damaging ones active. It's not in the least bit practical and it's completely worthless.

    Using her on stun immunes to create an opening once every 12 seconds makes no sense when you can just use anyone with better damage to finish the fight quickly or just use someone like KM or Mole Man in the same class that can create an opening on almost every single blocked hit. One opening every 12 seconds isn't helping much against stun immune.

    The rest of what you said, "Easy rotation, high crit rate, high power gain" is only talking about damage. And the only champs that I mentioned who have less damage than Elsa have far more than enough utility to not only compensate, but surpass Elsa quite easily.
    That’s not true; I use her all the time for vision AA and Hulkbuster. 12 seconds seems like a lot , but it’s really not just how falcons locked on seemed like a long time , but it’s not. Why bring up KM and Mole man for damage when they both aren’t known damage dealers? Come on.
    She only has a chance to shrug those specific debuffs, those situations are extremely niche, and she's going to take damage anyways. Why use her when there are 50 better options? And what are you on about? The only time I brought up their damage is when their damage was called bad. Which it isn't. I'm not talking about them as damage dealers, but instead utility machines that do much more than Elsa.
    Can Killmonger shrug a debuff off? Can kill monger bypass resistances? Can Killmonger inflict coldsnap or incinerate? Does Killmonger have passive heal block
    Actually, I would say that Killmonger can bypass resistances better than Elsa, as True Strike allows all attacks to bypasses resistances.
  • MasterpuffMasterpuff Posts: 5,688 ★★★★★
    HI_guys said:

    HI_guys said:

    Let me make something clear. Ronin and Elsa are both not top 7 most likely. They do not have amazing utility and where Elsa outshines Ronin(a little) in utility he makes up for it with damage. They both have their uses, but neither are top tier.

    In my opinion, they are both enjoyment champs. Neither will do a ton for you and every piece of utility they have can be done better by someone else. I think Gwenpool(kinda) and BWDO also fall under this umbrella.

    Elsa worked pretty well for airwalker for me
    Thats not really much of a feat.
    Ofcourse not. I dont know an auto debuff shrugging champ that does not hit like a noodle(this was 2 months prior) seemed pretty neat to me.
    *Can use any armor breaker or someone who can shrug off a single debuff, armor break.
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