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Ranking the 2020 champs

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    ThatGuyYouSaw235ThatGuyYouSaw235 Posts: 3,183 ★★★★★
    I have flawless equation that disproves this list.

    Air-Walker is at 1st or 0nd place = Legitimate Tier List

    Other = Trash
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    TrashyPandaTrashyPanda Posts: 1,574 ★★★★★
    In any case KD, have a +1 awesome for keeping me entertained.

    Shine on, you crazy diamond, shine on.
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    gash228gash228 Posts: 108

    gash228 said:

    I'll begin by making my list (Will be mostly unbiased and based on my personal experience playing these champions). Feel free to agree/disagree with my list and/or create your own list and others will discuss that with you.

    My list:

    1. Apocalypse
    2. CGR
    3. Mole Man
    4. Sorcerer Supreme
    5. Professor X
    6. Tigra
    7. Dragon Man
    8. Guardian
    9. iHulk
    10. iBom
    11. Terrax
    12. Spider-Ham
    13. Longshot
    14. Mojo
    15. Storm X
    16. Red Guardian
    17. Hit-Monkey
    18. Sasquatch
    19. Red Goblin
    20. BWDO
    21. Air-Walker
    22. Squirrel Girl
    23. Nova

    You're severely underrating Hit-monkey. He's even better than Mole-Man.
    When I thought I'd seen it all
    He is objectively better than Mole-Man. His utility is better since he blocks evade champions with no penalty to the damage output, which is also better. He doesn't need his awakened ability at all. Only thing that Mole-Man has that's better than Hit-monkey is his shrugg off ability and that's it. Even if you disagree, number 17 (being below iHulk, Mojo, Red Guardian and Dragon Man) is just way too low.
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    hermherm Posts: 415 ★★
    this guy has very clearly never experienced the raw hammy power of peter porker
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    odishika123odishika123 Posts: 5,393 ★★★★★
    Why is Guardian so low?
    Angry Canadian noise's
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    EtjamaEtjama Posts: 7,981 ★★★★★
    gash228 said:

    gash228 said:

    I'll begin by making my list (Will be mostly unbiased and based on my personal experience playing these champions). Feel free to agree/disagree with my list and/or create your own list and others will discuss that with you.

    My list:

    1. Apocalypse
    2. CGR
    3. Mole Man
    4. Sorcerer Supreme
    5. Professor X
    6. Tigra
    7. Dragon Man
    8. Guardian
    9. iHulk
    10. iBom
    11. Terrax
    12. Spider-Ham
    13. Longshot
    14. Mojo
    15. Storm X
    16. Red Guardian
    17. Hit-Monkey
    18. Sasquatch
    19. Red Goblin
    20. BWDO
    21. Air-Walker
    22. Squirrel Girl
    23. Nova

    You're severely underrating Hit-monkey. He's even better than Mole-Man.
    When I thought I'd seen it all
    He is objectively better than Mole-Man. His utility is better since he blocks evade champions with no penalty to the damage output, which is also better. He doesn't need his awakened ability at all. Only thing that Mole-Man has that's better than Hit-monkey is his shrugg off ability and that's it. Even if you disagree, number 17 (being below iHulk, Mojo, Red Guardian and Dragon Man) is just way too low.
    Yeah, no. Mole Man literally does everything Hit Monkey does but better, and then he also does more.
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    The_Sentry06The_Sentry06 Posts: 7,783 ★★★★★
    gash228 said:

    gash228 said:

    I'll begin by making my list (Will be mostly unbiased and based on my personal experience playing these champions). Feel free to agree/disagree with my list and/or create your own list and others will discuss that with you.

    My list:

    1. Apocalypse
    2. CGR
    3. Mole Man
    4. Sorcerer Supreme
    5. Professor X
    6. Tigra
    7. Dragon Man
    8. Guardian
    9. iHulk
    10. iBom
    11. Terrax
    12. Spider-Ham
    13. Longshot
    14. Mojo
    15. Storm X
    16. Red Guardian
    17. Hit-Monkey
    18. Sasquatch
    19. Red Goblin
    20. BWDO
    21. Air-Walker
    22. Squirrel Girl
    23. Nova

    You're severely underrating Hit-monkey. He's even better than Mole-Man.
    When I thought I'd seen it all
    He is objectively better than Mole-Man. His utility is better since he blocks evade champions with no penalty to the damage output, which is also better. He doesn't need his awakened ability at all. Only thing that Mole-Man has that's better than Hit-monkey is his shrugg off ability and that's it. Even if you disagree, number 17 (being below iHulk, Mojo, Red Guardian and Dragon Man) is just way too low.
    Mole Man has good damage even without his guaranteed critical phase. He has multiple ways of dealing damage, is a far superior evade counter and his shrug off ability is amazing, one of the best ingame.
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    EtjamaEtjama Posts: 7,981 ★★★★★
    herm said:

    this guy has very clearly never experienced the raw hammy power of peter porker

    Or he has and realizes that the only 2 pieces of utility he has are power stings and taunt, both very niche.
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    hermherm Posts: 415 ★★
    Etjama said:

    herm said:

    this guy has very clearly never experienced the raw hammy power of peter porker

    Or he has and realizes that the only 2 pieces of utility he has are power stings and taunt, both very niche.
    niche is a relative term. Not to mention, nobody is immune to power sting which means his "nicheness" is actually incredibly useful. It seems you also need to be educated in the ways of the forbidden hot dog lover
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    Shock29Shock29 Posts: 559 ★★★
    edited March 2021
    Spider-Ham has very high damage potential with his power stings , an assisted evade mechanic, degen immunity, lowers special attack damage, base evade and unblockable, and of course, taunt which mixes nicely with his kit.
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    EtjamaEtjama Posts: 7,981 ★★★★★
    edited March 2021
    herm said:

    Etjama said:

    herm said:

    this guy has very clearly never experienced the raw hammy power of peter porker

    Or he has and realizes that the only 2 pieces of utility he has are power stings and taunt, both very niche.
    niche is a relative term. Not to mention, nobody is immune to power sting which means his "nicheness" is actually incredibly useful. It seems you also need to be educated in the ways of the forbidden hot dog lover
    He's got no other practical utility to go with that power sting. So if power sting's not required by a node, where else would you ever use him? The only other thing he does is ignore degen but it's very impractical to use.
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    Shock29Shock29 Posts: 559 ★★★
    Etjama said:

    herm said:

    Etjama said:

    herm said:

    this guy has very clearly never experienced the raw hammy power of peter porker

    Or he has and realizes that the only 2 pieces of utility he has are power stings and taunt, both very niche.
    niche is a relative term. Not to mention, nobody is immune to power sting which means his "nicheness" is actually incredibly useful. It seems you also need to be educated in the ways of the forbidden hot dog lover
    He's got no other utility to go with that power sting. So if power sting's not required by a node, where else would you ever use him?
    Glad you asked. Any opponent with lots of power gain he will destroy. He will destroy anyone with regular power gain as well but his buildup will be slightly slower
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    EtjamaEtjama Posts: 7,981 ★★★★★
    Shock29 said:

    Etjama said:

    herm said:

    Etjama said:

    herm said:

    this guy has very clearly never experienced the raw hammy power of peter porker

    Or he has and realizes that the only 2 pieces of utility he has are power stings and taunt, both very niche.
    niche is a relative term. Not to mention, nobody is immune to power sting which means his "nicheness" is actually incredibly useful. It seems you also need to be educated in the ways of the forbidden hot dog lover
    He's got no other utility to go with that power sting. So if power sting's not required by a node, where else would you ever use him?
    Glad you asked. Any opponent with lots of power gain he will destroy. He will destroy anyone with regular power gain as well but his buildup will be slightly slower
    So... damage? If Spider-Ham's your main damage dealer, then your roster must be strongly lacking. And in high power gain scenarios, you should really be using a power control champ, not Spider-Ham.
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    Shock29Shock29 Posts: 559 ★★★
    Etjama said:

    Shock29 said:

    Etjama said:

    herm said:

    Etjama said:

    herm said:

    this guy has very clearly never experienced the raw hammy power of peter porker

    Or he has and realizes that the only 2 pieces of utility he has are power stings and taunt, both very niche.
    niche is a relative term. Not to mention, nobody is immune to power sting which means his "nicheness" is actually incredibly useful. It seems you also need to be educated in the ways of the forbidden hot dog lover
    He's got no other utility to go with that power sting. So if power sting's not required by a node, where else would you ever use him?
    Glad you asked. Any opponent with lots of power gain he will destroy. He will destroy anyone with regular power gain as well but his buildup will be slightly slower
    So... damage? If Spider-Ham's your main damage dealer, then your roster must be strongly lacking. And in high power gain scenarios, you should really be using a power control champ, not Spider-Ham.
    Thats what is so fun with Spider-Ham. Your goal is not to control the power gain but give them more as you apply power stings. Every time they gain more power and launch a special attack, they are only punishing themselves. The bursts you see can reach crazy numbers when building him up.
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    Shock29Shock29 Posts: 559 ★★★
    Thats what is so fun about Spider-Ham. Your goal isn't to control the power gain but apply power stings and taunt to use it against them. Every time they launch a special attack, they only punish themselves. The bursts you'll see can reach crazy numbers and in some matchups, Spider-Ham can tank a special 3 which is another nice piece of utility.
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    EtjamaEtjama Posts: 7,981 ★★★★★
    Shock29 said:

    Thats what is so fun about Spider-Ham. Your goal isn't to control the power gain but apply power stings and taunt to use it against them. Every time they launch a special attack, they only punish themselves. The bursts you'll see can reach crazy numbers and in some matchups, Spider-Ham can tank a special 3 which is another nice piece of utility.

    You're still only talking about damage, dude. If you're making smart decisions, you're using a power control champ for high power gain, not Spider-Ham. And a 40% decrease in special attack damage and isn't enough to stop you from dying to a Sp3 in Endgame content.
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    Shock29Shock29 Posts: 559 ★★★
    edited March 2021
    Etjama said:

    Shock29 said:

    Thats what is so fun about Spider-Ham. Your goal isn't to control the power gain but apply power stings and taunt to use it against them. Every time they launch a special attack, they only punish themselves. The bursts you'll see can reach crazy numbers and in some matchups, Spider-Ham can tank a special 3 which is another nice piece of utility.

    You're still only talking about damage, dude. If you're making smart decisions, you're using a power control champ for high power gain, not Spider-Ham. And a 40% decrease in special attack damage and isn't enough to stop you from dying to a Sp3 in Endgame content.
    Pretty sure it’s 50% and then add the taunt and that’s about 90%. And that’s why I said some matchups he can tank a special 3. For one, I’m not arguing to say Spider-Ham is the best champ in the game but saying he has no utility isn’t true. Power control often involves lowering power gain, power drain, power burn, power lock, and other things. With Spider-Ham, you don’t need any of those. He pretty much ignores the need for power control if you can play skillfully enough by baiting out special attacks. Spider-Ham has some nice synergies as well just to add that :)
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    SpideyFunkoSpideyFunko Posts: 21,879 ★★★★★
    I’d genuinely thought I’d seen it all but this whole spider-ham argument has surprised me
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    EtjamaEtjama Posts: 7,981 ★★★★★
    Shock29 said:

    Etjama said:

    Shock29 said:

    Thats what is so fun about Spider-Ham. Your goal isn't to control the power gain but apply power stings and taunt to use it against them. Every time they launch a special attack, they only punish themselves. The bursts you'll see can reach crazy numbers and in some matchups, Spider-Ham can tank a special 3 which is another nice piece of utility.

    You're still only talking about damage, dude. If you're making smart decisions, you're using a power control champ for high power gain, not Spider-Ham. And a 40% decrease in special attack damage and isn't enough to stop you from dying to a Sp3 in Endgame content.
    Pretty sure it’s 50% and then add the taunt and that’s about 90%. And that’s why I said some matchups he can tank a special 3. For one, I’m not arguing to say Spider-Ham is the best champ in the game but saying he has no utility isn’t true. Power control often involves lowering power gain, power drain, power burn, power lock, and other things. With Spider-Ham, you don’t need any of those. He pretty much ignores the need for power control if you can play skillfully enough. Spider-Ham has some nice synergies as well just to add that :)
    It's only at 50% if you can get to and maintain 10 Spider Nonsense which is extremely impractical. Plus that extra 40% with the taunt is multiplicative, not additive. It's 40% of remaining damage, not 40% more. And using him in high power gain scenarios isn't skill based, it's RNG based. Too RNG based, even with the taunt. It's why people are using champs like Magik, Vision, Doc Ock, or Doom in high power gain scenarios, and not Sparky or She-Hulk. I never said he had no utility, just very little. His only real use for most people in the community is just going to be the one or 2 niche Act 6/7 paths that require power sting.
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    Shock29Shock29 Posts: 559 ★★★
    I'm not sure if I understand how its impractical. Just give the opponent power or launch special 2 to reach 10. Launch one heavy occaisionally to keep nonsense up high as long as you can. I do understand the RNG thing with baiting out special attacks as it doesn't always work out though with taunt its more likely. I would also like to say that I'm not saying that power control champs are not as good counters for champions with increased power gain as Spider-Ham. Power control champs are definitely better for those situations but Spider-Ham is still a fair counter.
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    hermherm Posts: 415 ★★
    Etjama said:

    herm said:

    Etjama said:

    herm said:

    this guy has very clearly never experienced the raw hammy power of peter porker

    Or he has and realizes that the only 2 pieces of utility he has are power stings and taunt, both very niche.
    niche is a relative term. Not to mention, nobody is immune to power sting which means his "nicheness" is actually incredibly useful. It seems you also need to be educated in the ways of the forbidden hot dog lover
    He's got no other practical utility to go with that power sting. So if power sting's not required by a node, where else would you ever use him? The only other thing he does is ignore degen but it's very impractical to use.
    Hold ur high horses, what about sunspot for goodness sakes? His only utility is perfect block and incinerate immunity. There are many champions who have like one or two pieces of utility and there are some champs who have no utility and yet they are still god-tier champs. Regardless of whether or not Spider-Ham qualifies for such baseless claims, he's still a great champ who deserves his god-tier spot. Now for specifics: having degen resistance is one of the most valuable things in today's meta. There are so many bs nodes and crappy fights where degen kills you. Spider-Ham is the first champ to have any semblance of a 100% degen immunity, and if you're a skilled player, you can maintain the right amount of Spider-nonsense indefinitely. Then there's taunt. I'm not grouping taunt with power sting because while they go hand in hand, taunt in and of itself is incredibly useful. Baiting special attacks is an enormous pain in the butthole, but when you can increase the opponent's chance to do so as well as decrease the amount of damage it deals, it's awesome. Now without a doubt, power control champs would do better in many scenarios revolving around said situations, but it's still an awesome ability to have that is generally quite effective. Now we arrive at the final destination, power sting. Peter Porker's Porker Poppers pack a punch of pickled prickers. His power sting ability is purely damage-based. There is no doubt that it is. However, since it is neither a damaging debuff nor a critical hit, it can bypass so many champion's abilities. On top of that, nobody is immune to power stings of any kind. Plus there's the added bonus of nodes that require power sting champs to deal any damage. So his small amount of utility isn't small at all. He basically has the monopoly on power stings and he can get through so many crappy encounters and he just deals so much damage. Thanks for coming to my TEDTalk, and I hope you and many others can see the light. Just as @Crcrcrc has tried to get people to see the true beauty of Immortal hulk, I now know it is my duty to do the same for everyone's favorite pig. Good day.
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    The_Sentry06The_Sentry06 Posts: 7,783 ★★★★★
    People are hating on champs with moderately less utility too much these days.
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    hermherm Posts: 415 ★★
    herm said:

    Etjama said:

    herm said:

    Etjama said:

    herm said:

    this guy has very clearly never experienced the raw hammy power of peter porker

    Or he has and realizes that the only 2 pieces of utility he has are power stings and taunt, both very niche.
    niche is a relative term. Not to mention, nobody is immune to power sting which means his "nicheness" is actually incredibly useful. It seems you also need to be educated in the ways of the forbidden hot dog lover
    He's got no other practical utility to go with that power sting. So if power sting's not required by a node, where else would you ever use him? The only other thing he does is ignore degen but it's very impractical to use.
    Hold ur high horses, what about sunspot for goodness sakes? His only utility is perfect block and incinerate immunity. There are many champions who have like one or two pieces of utility and there are some champs who have no utility and yet they are still god-tier champs. Regardless of whether or not Spider-Ham qualifies for such baseless claims, he's still a great champ who deserves his god-tier spot. Now for specifics: having degen resistance is one of the most valuable things in today's meta. There are so many bs nodes and crappy fights where degen kills you. Spider-Ham is the first champ to have any semblance of a 100% degen immunity, and if you're a skilled player, you can maintain the right amount of Spider-nonsense indefinitely. Then there's taunt. I'm not grouping taunt with power sting because while they go hand in hand, taunt in and of itself is incredibly useful. Baiting special attacks is an enormous pain in the butthole, but when you can increase the opponent's chance to do so as well as decrease the amount of damage it deals, it's awesome. Now without a doubt, power control champs would do better in many scenarios revolving around said situations, but it's still an awesome ability to have that is generally quite effective. Now we arrive at the final destination, power sting. Peter Porker's Porker Poppers pack a punch of pickled prickers. His power sting ability is purely damage-based. There is no doubt that it is. However, since it is neither a damaging debuff nor a critical hit, it can bypass so many champion's abilities. On top of that, nobody is immune to power stings of any kind. Plus there's the added bonus of nodes that require power sting champs to deal any damage. So his small amount of utility isn't small at all. He basically has the monopoly on power stings and he can get through so many crappy encounters and he just deals so much damage. Thanks for coming to my TEDTalk, and I hope you and many others can see the light. Just as @Crcrcrc has tried to get people to see the true beauty of Immortal hulk, I now know it is my duty to do the same for everyone's favorite pig. Good day.
    Also as a quick note, he can also absolutely wreck diss track. And on top of that, certain champs that you wouldn't think dealt degen damage actually do such as OR with his death spores and I'm pretty sure Magik's limbo counts as well.
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    IronGladiator22IronGladiator22 Posts: 1,644 ★★★★
    edited March 2021
    Etjama said:

    herm said:

    this guy has very clearly never experienced the raw hammy power of peter porker

    Or he has and realizes that the only 2 pieces of utility he has are power stings and taunt, both very niche.
    Woah. I wasn’t expecting a pig roast for dinner tonight
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    Rouger4Rouger4 Posts: 633 ★★★

    gash228 said:

    I'll begin by making my list (Will be mostly unbiased and based on my personal experience playing these champions). Feel free to agree/disagree with my list and/or create your own list and others will discuss that with you.

    My list:

    1. Apocalypse
    2. CGR
    3. Mole Man
    4. Sorcerer Supreme
    5. Professor X
    6. Tigra
    7. Dragon Man
    8. Guardian
    9. iHulk
    10. iBom
    11. Terrax
    12. Spider-Ham
    13. Longshot
    14. Mojo
    15. Storm X
    16. Red Guardian
    17. Hit-Monkey
    18. Sasquatch
    19. Red Goblin
    20. BWDO
    21. Air-Walker
    22. Squirrel Girl
    23. Nova

    You're severely underrating Hit-monkey. He's even better than Mole-Man.
    When I thought I'd seen it all
    Finally
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    Rouger4Rouger4 Posts: 633 ★★★
    Also hit monkey is in no way better than mole man
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    Texas_11Texas_11 Posts: 2,638 ★★★★★
    I think red goblin needs to be way higher.
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    Texas_11Texas_11 Posts: 2,638 ★★★★★

    CGR is above Apocalypse and Guardian is top 5 for me

    CGR is not above apoc , don’t let the numbers fool you. Apoc does more for anyone’s roster than CGR will do.
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    The_Sentry06The_Sentry06 Posts: 7,783 ★★★★★
    Texas_11 said:

    CGR is above Apocalypse and Guardian is top 5 for me

    CGR is not above apoc , don’t let the numbers fool you. Apoc does more for anyone’s roster than CGR will do.
    Exactly. He has utility and insane synergies as well as a solid damage output. CGR has amazing damage but far less utility and many champions already have damage.
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