Nexus Cav drop rates [Merged]

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Comments

  • Ebony_NawEbony_Naw Posts: 2,719 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Wicket329 said:

    Lpoo said:

    Kd101 said:

    Wow someone disagreed with “welcome to the club” 🤣

    Disagree bombers lol I’m sure there’ll be a bunch below this too
    I once had somebody disagree with me so hard that they went onto my profile and added a disagree to every comment of mine they could find. Added something like 75 disagrees across my profile. Honestly, impressed by their tenacity. That was the day I stopped caring about reactions on my comments.
    Even when they are writing nothing but complete gibberish, I still have a hundred times more respect for someone who disagrees with my posts with a reply than someone that anonymously flags my post, because an anonymous disagree flag is completely devoid of meaning. If you agree with me and have nothing to add, flagging my post with an agree just means that. You agree but have nothing to add. But if you disagree, there's no way to infer in what way you disagree with a flag. So if it isn't important enough to elaborate, I'm assuming it isn't important enough for me to contemplate.
    I agree with this completely. If someone disagrees with me but can't bother to articulate why, I am not going to sit there and conjur up a reason for them. I value dialog and being able to learn other people's perspectives, and I get none of that from a disagree, so I move on just as quickly as they did.
  • Kd101Kd101 Posts: 102

    Kd101 said:

    Then don’t judge dude if you aren’t willing to educate yourself it’s your choice but don’t act educated on the matter if you only listen to half of it and refuse to watch the vids of other people’s opinions for the sake of a single view. Know your enemy at least is a smart thing. Ignorance is not bliss.

    Kd101 said:

    Just stop asking the same points over and over even though you get responses. That doesn’t help us work toward a solution. It is just going in circles.

    Educate myself on what? There's nothing to learn from either of the videos. They have all the same damn information that's posted in this thread. The old and new drops rates are posted here. The drop rates from the deal is posted here. All the opinions in the world are posted here. Why would I need to go to Youtube to listen to youtubers talk about what is exactly in this thread? Even most of the people in this thread already said Kabam should compensate. So please tell me, what's to gain from the videos? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I flat out refuse to ever watch a Prof Hoff video. That man should be banned from ever being able to post MCOC content. He's absolutely terrible for this community and game.

    If you're going to keep saying the same thing over and over again to everyone on this thread, maybe take your own advice. Better yet, go ask your besties KT1 and Prof Hoff. I'm sure they have some great advice for you.

    Half the people in here have stated the same thing over and over again. TheHam basically said the same thing SpicySlicer said. One used Pepsi and the other Coke. Why aren't you all over those 2? Oh that's right, they agree with your point of view.
    If you wouldn’t keep asking the same question then the same answer or a similar variation wouldn’t be given. Asking twice won’t change the outcome. And if you can’t think with both sides in mind you won’t be able to come up with an educated answer.
  • Kd101Kd101 Posts: 102
    The majority says that it was misleading there opinion is what created this whole thing. If nobody had an issue with it then this thread would never exist.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 13,515 Guardian
    Zan0 said:

    Zan0 said:

    Jaymix79 said:


    This offer is from before they updated the drop rates

    Seatin uploaded this on the 22nd of March and the drop rates got updated in April. So in these crystals the drop rates are the same as a regular crystal.

    So according to this screenshot the drop rates on the cavs we got yesterday should have been updated
    @DNA3000 @YoMoves what are your thoughts on this then since nobody seems to want to reply to it. We have irrefutable evidence that cav nexus crystals had the same odds as non nexus cavs
    I'm a bit on the fence about this one. On the one hand, the drop odds were explicitly tagged on the crystal, and if we say players have no responsibility to check them, why are they there? Why did we fight to get disclosure? We can't demand disclosure, but then say all the responsibility is on the company. If they don't disclose they are at fault, but if they do disclose players are under no obligation to look at them, and they can still be at fault if the disclosed odds do not meet expectations. To me, that's an unreasonable expectation.

    On the other hand, setting that aside, if it was me if I *intended* the Cav crystals to not be "true Nexus" crystals in terms of overall intent - if I was using the technology of Nexus crystals to actually just release a better basic crystal with most of the 3* champs removed - I would have clearly disclosed that. It falls into a grey area I would try to eliminate myself, as I myself believe that is responsible design. Also, it would have taken no effort at all to highlight this fact, at least up to a point.

    To me, there's no such thing as a tie. If players have a responsibility and fail, but the designers also have a responsibility and fail, it is ultimately the professional's fault. They are the ones with the professional responsibility. I'm not sure if I would say the designers had a professional responsibility to clarify this situation, but I *lean* in that direction. I could be biased though, because that's what I would have done.

    I'm kind of wondering if disclosing this fact would have even helped, though. I was genuinely amazed at how many players were completely surprised by the fact the J4 2020 Nexus contained ten options. It was clearly stated in the offer, in the info for the crystal, and explicitly stated in the in-game announcement for the offer. And yet an amazing number of players completely missed both, even players I would ordinarily think were observant players. Which makes me wonder, *if* this was not an error (we don't yet know: it could have been which would make this discussion moot, as compensation would then be absolutely necessary) what would clear disclosure have been?
  • Kd101Kd101 Posts: 102
    Clearly you aren’t concerned with the rest of the thread since you won’t bother to read or figure out everyone else’s opinion other than denying everything that comes your way.
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 5,744 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    DrZola said:

    DNA3000 said:

    I'm honestly not sure if the odds are an error or not, but when I looked at the crystal I thought there were two possibilities: one: the odds were an error and were intended to be updated, and two: the odds were correct and the nexus crystal was actually intended to give players exactly what they've asked for, just using different technology.

    Here's some math. Suppose we assume that in general, players will always pick the highest rarity that shows up, or pick from that highest rarity if multiple champs of the same rarity show up. If we make this assumption, we can calculate the odds of pulling each rarity from the crystal, starting from the base odds (and assuming nexus drops equal their rarity) of 1%, 11%, 38%, 50%. We get:

    6* 2.97%
    5* 28.88%
    4* 55.64%
    3* 12.5%

    Compare this to the current basic Cav:

    6* 3%
    5* 16%
    4* 31%
    3* 50%

    The Nexus Cav is basically an improved version of the Basic Cav where the odds of 3* pulls is dramatically lowered and the odds of 4* and 5* are dramatically increased. Granted the odds of pulling a 6* champ are marginally lower, but that difference is all but negligable. This is basically what people have been asking for Cav crystals to move towards. If they actually made a Cav+ crystal with those odds, I suspect people would love them.

    Now, the question is whether Kabam *intended* to do this. I have no idea. It seems to me to be a basically 50/50 proposition that either someone at Kabam got clever but didn't feel they needed to explain that cleverness, or made an error and intended to release a mega Cav nexus but didn't update the odds.

    For the record, if the Nexus actually did obey the current basic drop odds for each Nexus pull, this is what the equivalent expected drop rate would be:

    6* 8.73%
    5* 38.12%
    4* 40.64%
    3* 12.5%

    That seems awfully high, but not so high so as to be obviously ridiculous. So I think both possibilities are not beyond the realm of possibility.

    What’s tough for players to digest—I think—is a “Cav crystal” having a 1% 6* drop rate.

    What is further hard to grasp is that a batch of 10 nexus with that drop rate is actually akin to 30 crystals with 1%, all leading to an “effective” 6* drop rate of ~3%. So it isn’t really far off what’s normal for generic Cavs.

    Whether that’s good or not isn’t my call. I bought it—I had Apple Cards from blood donation—and my pulls stunk (including my 4th 6* Beast from the 6*). I wish the disclosure was a little more overt but I can’t see any malfeasance here.

    If it were my call, I’d probably be overly clear about rates from here on out. I’d also probably throw some goodwill out to everyone who purchased, but I’d also understand if they didn’t.

    Dr. Zola

    Side note #1: Some of my disatisfaction at the deal was alleviated by back to back 6* from Heroes and Gods crystals (OG Thor/Annihilus).

    Side note #2: If people gave blood as often as they post on threads here, blood shortages would be a lot less likely and a lot less severe.
    I wonder if someone who only purchases offers in this manner could still be considered an F2P player, as technically speaking all of their stuff comes from nothing but blood, sweat, and tears.
    Blood—check. Sweat—check.

    If only I got something of value for the tears… ;)

    Dr. Zola
  • Kd101Kd101 Posts: 102
    DNA3000 said:

    Zan0 said:

    Zan0 said:

    Jaymix79 said:


    This offer is from before they updated the drop rates

    Seatin uploaded this on the 22nd of March and the drop rates got updated in April. So in these crystals the drop rates are the same as a regular crystal.

    So according to this screenshot the drop rates on the cavs we got yesterday should have been updated
    @DNA3000 @YoMoves what are your thoughts on this then since nobody seems to want to reply to it. We have irrefutable evidence that cav nexus crystals had the same odds as non nexus cavs
    I'm a bit on the fence about this one. On the one hand, the drop odds were explicitly tagged on the crystal, and if we say players have no responsibility to check them, why are they there? Why did we fight to get disclosure? We can't demand disclosure, but then say all the responsibility is on the company. If they don't disclose they are at fault, but if they do disclose players are under no obligation to look at them, and they can still be at fault if the disclosed odds do not meet expectations. To me, that's an unreasonable expectation.

    On the other hand, setting that aside, if it was me if I *intended* the Cav crystals to not be "true Nexus" crystals in terms of overall intent - if I was using the technology of Nexus crystals to actually just release a better basic crystal with most of the 3* champs removed - I would have clearly disclosed that. It falls into a grey area I would try to eliminate myself, as I myself believe that is responsible design. Also, it would have taken no effort at all to highlight this fact, at least up to a point.

    To me, there's no such thing as a tie. If players have a responsibility and fail, but the designers also have a responsibility and fail, it is ultimately the professional's fault. They are the ones with the professional responsibility. I'm not sure if I would say the designers had a professional responsibility to clarify this situation, but I *lean* in that direction. I could be biased though, because that's what I would have done.

    I'm kind of wondering if disclosing this fact would have even helped, though. I was genuinely amazed at how many players were completely surprised by the fact the J4 2020 Nexus contained ten options. It was clearly stated in the offer, in the info for the crystal, and explicitly stated in the in-game announcement for the offer. And yet an amazing number of players completely missed both, even players I would ordinarily think were observant players. Which makes me wonder, *if* this was not an error (we don't yet know: it could have been which would make this discussion moot, as compensation would then be absolutely necessary) what would clear disclosure have been?
    That one was stated, however it was also unprecedented just as this one was only difference being this offer was more readily available and people weren’t upset about the 10 choices like this either.
  • Kd101Kd101 Posts: 102
    Cavs and a 6* nexus are totally different points
  • Kd101Kd101 Posts: 102
    There is 100% chance irregardless for the ladder and a much more varied and controversial chance for the prior
  • Kd101Kd101 Posts: 102
    edited August 3
    Now if that 6* nexus was a 33% chance of a 6* instead of guaranteed then it would be the same.
  • Kd101Kd101 Posts: 102
    There isn’t a hard solution to this. Give warnings in the adverts if you are going to do something different. Don’t leave it up for interpretation or chance it for some to be misled. If they had added a * next to something and mentioned it then there wouldn’t be a need for a debate.
  • Kd101Kd101 Posts: 102
    Know your target audience and adapt for it. That is a great business stratagem.
  • Kd101Kd101 Posts: 102
    I am sorry I am vocal…. But I am responding to people a bad habit to space out the messages I am working on that
  • Kd101Kd101 Posts: 102
    A thread is for discussing that requires communication not the stifling of it.
  • Kd101Kd101 Posts: 102
    I had a lot of decent pulls I am not fighting for comp necessarily I am fighting for transparency in the future. Kabam has dealt with this in the past and it will continue to happen if we don’t fix it and start something to combat the miscommunication in the future. Figure out a solution rather than being toxic about another’s opinion.
  • Kd101Kd101 Posts: 102

    Kd101 said:

    A thread is for discussing that requires communication not the stifling of it.

    You told me to stop commenting. Stifle much?
    I never told you to stop commenting in general I told you to stop asking the same questions and ignoring the responses.
  • Kd101Kd101 Posts: 102
    DNA3000 said:

    Kd101 said:

    That one was stated, however it was also unprecedented just as this one was only difference being this offer was more readily available and people weren’t upset about the 10 choices like this either.

    That's probably not the best statement you could make in support of your position. In fact, I can think of no worse one at the moment. If you're saying the problem with the offer is you didn't like the outcome compared to other similar situations in which you were perfectly fine with it, you're saying that the decision of whether these disclosures are proper or not depend on whether they operate in your favor or not.

    Maybe this is something most people think is perfectly fine because they spend their whole lives being advocates, but to an objective observer this is an irreconcilable admission of bias. If I was acting as an arbiter between you and Kabam (and I am not) that one statement would probably make it basically impossible for me to rule in your favor.

    It is also an unforced error because it is, or at least should be obvious that my entire discussion of that situation was only to speculate on what the effect of a disclosure would be, not on whether the disclosure was sufficient or not. It is really important to follow the logic being presented, and not just skim it looking for things to disagree with. In this case, that worked to your detriment.
    If you base it off of one statement you are misguided I would recommend reading a few more to figure out the rest.
  • Kd101Kd101 Posts: 102
    Pick apart the rest too bec there are many but one doesn’t make or break the whole dilemma
  • Kd101Kd101 Posts: 102
    What is this whole thing but a collection of conflicting bias…. All bounce off one another and yield results. Maybe one worked towards my detriment thank you for helping me see that. I appreciate the great thought in your response and will further help change and progress my own.
  • Kd101Kd101 Posts: 102
    Someone has yet to disprove the relationship bias I have.
  • Kd101Kd101 Posts: 102
    Everyone just comes with a legality argument
  • Kd101Kd101 Posts: 102
    A little disagree button doesn’t further the discussion either only avoids it.
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