Suck it, Mercs

Wiredawg1

@Kabam Miike Are you guys going do anything about merc use in eq runs? Cause it’s just as bad there too

Scarcity27

Kabam Miike said:

To everybody saying "this is not a win" and "this sucks", you're 100% right. It really does suck having to take the "nuclear" option, and it's not something we ever wanted to do, but after doing this for years and fighting this fight, it really felt like there was no other option to address this anymore.

To all of our players that do their Legends Runs without the aid of 3rd Party Software or Mercs, we are very sorry.

We understand why you had to make this decision. We do hope you find a long term solution to this soon.
We really appreciate you taking time to respond in this thread, Miike.

Deacon

one question. when you do a legends run and qualify, does that title not sick with you forever?? or does it expire at the end of the month so you have to keep doing it in order to have the profile pic or legends thing?

Wiredawg1

DeaconVelvet said:

one question. when you do a legends run and qualify, does that title not sick with you forever?? or does it expire at the end of the month so you have to keep doing it in order to have the profile pic or legends thing?

It’s yours forever. Reason people do multiple is cause of the rewards.

Demonzfyre

DeaconVelvet said:

one question. when you do a legends run and qualify, does that title not sick with you forever?? or does it expire at the end of the month so you have to keep doing it in order to have the profile pic or legends thing?

The title is forever but you can get rewards for each run.

Diplodocus

If u ask me what is the best content u have seen of mcoc from youtube, It will be 5.4 legends run of brian grant and 6.2 itemless of the same person. Sadly one of that type of content will never come in future.

But happy that cheaters will also not get that title now. One thing which could have been done by kabam is like disqualifying VPN they could have also made the rule that legends run should be done from a place where the player has spent 80% of his time in last 4 months.

Crys23

Kabam Miike said:

To everybody saying "this is not a win" and "this sucks", you're 100% right. It really does suck having to take the "nuclear" option, and it's not something we ever wanted to do, but after doing this for years and fighting this fight, it really felt like there was no other option to address this anymore.

To all of our players that do their Legends Runs without the aid of 3rd Party Software or Mercs, we are very sorry.

You've just taken out a way for f2p endgame players like myself of getting sig stones. The 6-100 rewards are nothing great, like 100$ value in the store.
Going to these extreme measures for something this insignificant seems like a big overreaction. The game has much bigger problems than this. And beating the mercs was always fun for me, like an extra obstacle i had to go through (or like an incoming node)
Appology not accepted, btw.

Jaded

Kabam Miike said:

To everybody saying "this is not a win" and "this sucks", you're 100% right. It really does suck having to take the "nuclear" option, and it's not something we ever wanted to do, but after doing this for years and fighting this fight, it really felt like there was no other option to address this anymore.

To all of our players that do their Legends Runs without the aid of 3rd Party Software or Mercs, we are very sorry.

So true. The children ruined it for the rest.

GroundedWisdom

Crys23 said:

Kabam Miike said:

To everybody saying "this is not a win" and "this sucks", you're 100% right. It really does suck having to take the "nuclear" option, and it's not something we ever wanted to do, but after doing this for years and fighting this fight, it really felt like there was no other option to address this anymore.

To all of our players that do their Legends Runs without the aid of 3rd Party Software or Mercs, we are very sorry.

You've just taken out a way for f2p endgame players like myself of getting sig stones. The 6-100 rewards are nothing great, like 100$ value in the store.
Going to these extreme measures for something this insignificant seems like a big overreaction. The game has much bigger problems than this. And beating the mercs was always fun for me, like an extra obstacle i had to go through (or like an incoming node)
Appology not accepted, btw.

Insignificant? If fairness and legality are insignificant, then the Grand Canyon is a pothole.

The_Sentry06

Crys23 said:

Kabam Miike said:

To everybody saying "this is not a win" and "this sucks", you're 100% right. It really does suck having to take the "nuclear" option, and it's not something we ever wanted to do, but after doing this for years and fighting this fight, it really felt like there was no other option to address this anymore.

To all of our players that do their Legends Runs without the aid of 3rd Party Software or Mercs, we are very sorry.

You've just taken out a way for f2p endgame players like myself of getting sig stones. The 6-100 rewards are nothing great, like 100$ value in the store.
Going to these extreme measures for something this insignificant seems like a big overreaction. The game has much bigger problems than this. And beating the mercs was always fun for me, like an extra obstacle i had to go through (or like an incoming node)
Appology not accepted, btw.

There's a large vat of sig stones in SOP. Either way, these legends runs were going to run twice a year (since that's how future content was shaping up to be released) so they aren't a reliable source of sig stones anyways. This isn't an insignificant issue, it's been plaguing the game ever since hard content came to be. Either everyone gets rewards fairly (without mercs ruining it for them) or no one gets it all.

xNig

Crys23 said:

Kabam Miike said:

To everybody saying "this is not a win" and "this sucks", you're 100% right. It really does suck having to take the "nuclear" option, and it's not something we ever wanted to do, but after doing this for years and fighting this fight, it really felt like there was no other option to address this anymore.

To all of our players that do their Legends Runs without the aid of 3rd Party Software or Mercs, we are very sorry.

You've just taken out a way for f2p endgame players like myself of getting sig stones. The 6-100 rewards are nothing great, like 100$ value in the store.
Going to these extreme measures for something this insignificant seems like a big overreaction. The game has much bigger problems than this. And beating the mercs was always fun for me, like an extra obstacle i had to go through (or like an incoming node)
Appology not accepted, btw.

Chill. Cheating, and those paying to cheat, are ruining the game.

Just let them die out.

xNig

It’s a good call for Kabam to increase the slots to 125 as well.

I’m sure there 10 - 15 of “unsure” ones. So this increase will definitely catch everyone who deserves the original top 100.

Cheers

Crys23

The_Sentry06 said:

Crys23 said:

Kabam Miike said:

To everybody saying "this is not a win" and "this sucks", you're 100% right. It really does suck having to take the "nuclear" option, and it's not something we ever wanted to do, but after doing this for years and fighting this fight, it really felt like there was no other option to address this anymore.

To all of our players that do their Legends Runs without the aid of 3rd Party Software or Mercs, we are very sorry.

You've just taken out a way for f2p endgame players like myself of getting sig stones. The 6-100 rewards are nothing great, like 100$ value in the store.
Going to these extreme measures for something this insignificant seems like a big overreaction. The game has much bigger problems than this. And beating the mercs was always fun for me, like an extra obstacle i had to go through (or like an incoming node)
Appology not accepted, btw.

There's a large vat of sig stones in SOP. Either way, these legends runs were going to run twice a year (since that's how future content was shaping up to be released) so they aren't a reliable source of sig stones anyways. This isn't an insignificant issue, it's been plaguing the game ever since hard content came to be. Either everyone gets rewards fairly (without mercs ruining it for them) or no one gets it all.

SoP just showed up litteraly this summer. And Carina a few months back. And you said it, it was something that happened twice a year. People will still pay mercs to do their content. And the arenas.
Merc-ed legend runs was the smallest of issues in merc runned content an affects a small percentage of the top 1%. I did not care i had to compete against mercs. I loved it.
People thinking they'd have a shot without mercs have no idea. The planning, the execution, the commitment.
Lets say merc do cost some people top100. How many? 30-40-50??. For 50 people you're ruining something super fun.
And when mercs are out, more master level players with huge accounts will do it. And they'll get it, so your baby TB or Cav accounts stand no chance.

BigManOnCampus

TheBair123 said:

IKON said:

It also ends the program for everyone else, not sure this is a win.

i mean this is only temporarily. they're going to end up finding a fix for it

Hope it's facial recognition or fingerprint scanner !! @Kabam Miike

Beewee

I’d love to see them implement that summoner showdown thing I saw on YouTube as an alternative to the time based legends runs. They looked insanely fun and it’d be very easy to have a ranked system. Maybe implement seasons for it like aw but it’s individual gameplay.

Syndicated

Now we need the Mercs and bots out of arenas and everything will be ok.

StevieManWonder

I’m glad that something is being done about mercs, but I’m bummed that there will be no more act based legends runs. I really hope that I actually made the cutoff this time because it doesn’t look like I’ll get another chance.

Crys23

xNig said:

Crys23 said:

Kabam Miike said:

To everybody saying "this is not a win" and "this sucks", you're 100% right. It really does suck having to take the "nuclear" option, and it's not something we ever wanted to do, but after doing this for years and fighting this fight, it really felt like there was no other option to address this anymore.

To all of our players that do their Legends Runs without the aid of 3rd Party Software or Mercs, we are very sorry.

You've just taken out a way for f2p endgame players like myself of getting sig stones. The 6-100 rewards are nothing great, like 100$ value in the store.
Going to these extreme measures for something this insignificant seems like a big overreaction. The game has much bigger problems than this. And beating the mercs was always fun for me, like an extra obstacle i had to go through (or like an incoming node)
Appology not accepted, btw.

Chill. Cheating, and those paying to cheat, are ruining the game.

Just let them die out.

I have no problem with that. But they should start with the thousands of arena bots that are probably the main cause of all the lag in the game. Every time after a big bot ban, the game works better. It's like it can breathe again.
The legend results are at kabam's discretion. If a result doesn't feel legit to them, they can just exclude them from the list. Like those guys "taking a trip". They should be able to put up a top100 list they are fully confident it's legit. If you don't reward the merc runs, people wont hire them anymore. They could've used a scalpel, instead they used the flamethrower with rocket launcher built in.

Beewee

SoP just showed up litteraly this summer. And Carina a few months back. And you said it, it was something that happened twice a year. People will still pay mercs to do their content. And the arenas.
Merc-ed legend runs was the smallest of issues in merc runned content an affects a small percentage of the top 1%. I did not care i had to compete against mercs. I loved it.
People thinking they'd have a shot without mercs have no idea. The planning, the execution, the commitment.
Lets say merc do cost some people top100. How many? 30-40-50??. For 50 people you're ruining something super fun.
And when mercs are out, more master level players with huge accounts will do it. And they'll get it, so your baby TB or Cav accounts stand no chance.

This is a bad take considering mercs ruined it for the people they pushed out of bracket. Going for a legends run is time consuming. I’d rather kabam just tries to find an alternative to the time runs because it’s not exactly like timed runs were the most fun thing anyway.

GroundedWisdom

Crys23 said:

Demonzfyre said:

Crys23 said:

The_Sentry06 said:

Crys23 said:

Kabam Miike said:

To everybody saying "this is not a win" and "this sucks", you're 100% right. It really does suck having to take the "nuclear" option, and it's not something we ever wanted to do, but after doing this for years and fighting this fight, it really felt like there was no other option to address this anymore.

To all of our players that do their Legends Runs without the aid of 3rd Party Software or Mercs, we are very sorry.

You've just taken out a way for f2p endgame players like myself of getting sig stones. The 6-100 rewards are nothing great, like 100$ value in the store.
Going to these extreme measures for something this insignificant seems like a big overreaction. The game has much bigger problems than this. And beating the mercs was always fun for me, like an extra obstacle i had to go through (or like an incoming node)
Appology not accepted, btw.

There's a large vat of sig stones in SOP. Either way, these legends runs were going to run twice a year (since that's how future content was shaping up to be released) so they aren't a reliable source of sig stones anyways. This isn't an insignificant issue, it's been plaguing the game ever since hard content came to be. Either everyone gets rewards fairly (without mercs ruining it for them) or no one gets it all.

SoP just showed up litteraly this summer. And Carina a few months back. And you said it, it was something that happened twice a year. People will still pay mercs to do their content. And the arenas.
Merc-ed legend runs was the smallest of issues in merc runned content an affects a small percentage of the top 1%. I did not care i had to compete against mercs. I loved it.
People thinking they'd have a shot without mercs have no idea. The planning, the execution, the commitment.
Lets say merc do cost some people top100. How many? 30-40-50??. For 50 people you're ruining something super fun.
And when mercs are out, more master level players with huge accounts will do it. And they'll get it, so your baby TB or Cav accounts stand no chance.

So it's fair for people to get pushed out of the Top 100 because the poor F2P players can't get a few 6* sig stones? Makes tons of sense.

No, but life isn't fair. Look at it as a learning experience. Just get better, beat the mercs. Anyway, 99.9999(9)% of the people complaining they didn't get legends because of mercs wouldn't get it anyway.

I see. So your solution is to allow people to continue to collect fraudulent funds and monopolize spots on the board, as a fun challenge to beat? Something doesn't sit right with your logic.

YoMoves

Crys23 said:

Demonzfyre said:

Crys23 said:

The_Sentry06 said:

Crys23 said:

Kabam Miike said:

To everybody saying "this is not a win" and "this sucks", you're 100% right. It really does suck having to take the "nuclear" option, and it's not something we ever wanted to do, but after doing this for years and fighting this fight, it really felt like there was no other option to address this anymore.

To all of our players that do their Legends Runs without the aid of 3rd Party Software or Mercs, we are very sorry.

You've just taken out a way for f2p endgame players like myself of getting sig stones. The 6-100 rewards are nothing great, like 100$ value in the store.
Going to these extreme measures for something this insignificant seems like a big overreaction. The game has much bigger problems than this. And beating the mercs was always fun for me, like an extra obstacle i had to go through (or like an incoming node)
Appology not accepted, btw.

There's a large vat of sig stones in SOP. Either way, these legends runs were going to run twice a year (since that's how future content was shaping up to be released) so they aren't a reliable source of sig stones anyways. This isn't an insignificant issue, it's been plaguing the game ever since hard content came to be. Either everyone gets rewards fairly (without mercs ruining it for them) or no one gets it all.

SoP just showed up litteraly this summer. And Carina a few months back. And you said it, it was something that happened twice a year. People will still pay mercs to do their content. And the arenas.
Merc-ed legend runs was the smallest of issues in merc runned content an affects a small percentage of the top 1%. I did not care i had to compete against mercs. I loved it.
People thinking they'd have a shot without mercs have no idea. The planning, the execution, the commitment.
Lets say merc do cost some people top100. How many? 30-40-50??. For 50 people you're ruining something super fun.
And when mercs are out, more master level players with huge accounts will do it. And they'll get it, so your baby TB or Cav accounts stand no chance.

So it's fair for people to get pushed out of the Top 100 because the poor F2P players can't get a few 6* sig stones? Makes tons of sense.

No, but life isn't fair. Look at it as a learning experience. Just get better, beat the mercs. Anyway, 99.9999(9)% of the people complaining they didn't get legends because of mercs wouldn't get it anyway.

He says, realizing that if mercs hadn't been all over 7.1 I would have gotten my legends title and Weapon X. As a player with a lower income who still shells out every now and again, I put a ton of effort, time, and resources into my run. I was *really* close, too. Based on the times of the bottom few who made it, had the mercers been properly banned and disqualified, I would have made it just fine. But as it turns out, I can't beat a merc who has his clients pay for Iphone 12 pros or whatever runs the game fastest these days, nor can I simply buy the best champs every month or two. This argument is incredibly weak. It's essentially saying we should unban Russia from the Olympics because 'ah, it's fine, just beat the dopers'. You know how you beat the cheaters? By cheating. That's a vicious cycle that gets us nowhere. Your argument is weak, shortsighted, and defensive towards those same cheaters.

Bugmat78

Demonzfyre said:

DeaconVelvet said:

one question. when you do a legends run and qualify, does that title not sick with you forever?? or does it expire at the end of the month so you have to keep doing it in order to have the profile pic or legends thing?

The title is forever but you can get rewards for each run.

Maybe taking away the repeat rewards might (just might - thinking out loud) help to quell the use of mercs. If only first time legends get it that reduces the incentive for serial runners who want rewards to hire mercs - those who just want to do it for fun would probably continue cheat-free.

Stellar

Kabam Miike said:

To everybody saying "this is not a win" and "this sucks", you're 100% right. It really does suck having to take the "nuclear" option, and it's not something we ever wanted to do, but after doing this for years and fighting this fight, it really felt like there was no other option to address this anymore.

To all of our players that do their Legends Runs without the aid of 3rd Party Software or Mercs, we are very sorry.

While i 100% support your decision, it's a very hard one.

Can't you put some more restriction on the eligibility of act 7 legend run ?

- No VPN,
- No 3rd party software
- no "Trip" 2 weeks before and 2 weeks after the month of the legend run ?

That kind of restriction, even if they are extreme, would only be active during the legend run month.

Crys23

YoMoves said:

Crys23 said:

Demonzfyre said:

Crys23 said:

The_Sentry06 said:

Crys23 said:

Kabam Miike said:

To everybody saying "this is not a win" and "this sucks", you're 100% right. It really does suck having to take the "nuclear" option, and it's not something we ever wanted to do, but after doing this for years and fighting this fight, it really felt like there was no other option to address this anymore.

To all of our players that do their Legends Runs without the aid of 3rd Party Software or Mercs, we are very sorry.

You've just taken out a way for f2p endgame players like myself of getting sig stones. The 6-100 rewards are nothing great, like 100$ value in the store.
Going to these extreme measures for something this insignificant seems like a big overreaction. The game has much bigger problems than this. And beating the mercs was always fun for me, like an extra obstacle i had to go through (or like an incoming node)
Appology not accepted, btw.

There's a large vat of sig stones in SOP. Either way, these legends runs were going to run twice a year (since that's how future content was shaping up to be released) so they aren't a reliable source of sig stones anyways. This isn't an insignificant issue, it's been plaguing the game ever since hard content came to be. Either everyone gets rewards fairly (without mercs ruining it for them) or no one gets it all.

SoP just showed up litteraly this summer. And Carina a few months back. And you said it, it was something that happened twice a year. People will still pay mercs to do their content. And the arenas.
Merc-ed legend runs was the smallest of issues in merc runned content an affects a small percentage of the top 1%. I did not care i had to compete against mercs. I loved it.
People thinking they'd have a shot without mercs have no idea. The planning, the execution, the commitment.
Lets say merc do cost some people top100. How many? 30-40-50??. For 50 people you're ruining something super fun.
And when mercs are out, more master level players with huge accounts will do it. And they'll get it, so your baby TB or Cav accounts stand no chance.

So it's fair for people to get pushed out of the Top 100 because the poor F2P players can't get a few 6* sig stones? Makes tons of sense.

No, but life isn't fair. Look at it as a learning experience. Just get better, beat the mercs. Anyway, 99.9999(9)% of the people complaining they didn't get legends because of mercs wouldn't get it anyway.

He says, realizing that if mercs hadn't been all over 7.1 I would have gotten my legends title and Weapon X. As a player with a lower income who still shells out every now and again, I put a ton of effort, time, and resources into my run. I was *really* close, too. Based on the times of the bottom few who made it, had the mercers been properly banned and disqualified, I would have made it just fine. But as it turns out, I can't beat a merc who has his clients pay for Iphone 12 pros or whatever runs the game fastest these days, nor can I simply buy the best champs every month or two. This argument is incredibly weak. It's essentially saying we should unban Russia from the Olympics because 'ah, it's fine, just beat the dopers'. You know how you beat the cheaters? By cheating. That's a vicious cycle that gets us nowhere. Your argument is weak, shortsighted, and defensive towards those same cheaters.

Shows how much you know about Legend Runs. The device you play on has no importance. Only the fight time is counted, so a faster loading phone has no effect on the results. I do it on a 5 year old iPhone 7 that I have to restart every 20min because of the lag.
7.1 had one of the biggest ban waves ever and you still didn't get it??? Weak.

YoMoves

Crys23 said:

YoMoves said:

Crys23 said:

Demonzfyre said:

Crys23 said:

The_Sentry06 said:

Crys23 said:

Kabam Miike said:

To everybody saying "this is not a win" and "this sucks", you're 100% right. It really does suck having to take the "nuclear" option, and it's not something we ever wanted to do, but after doing this for years and fighting this fight, it really felt like there was no other option to address this anymore.

To all of our players that do their Legends Runs without the aid of 3rd Party Software or Mercs, we are very sorry.

You've just taken out a way for f2p endgame players like myself of getting sig stones. The 6-100 rewards are nothing great, like 100$ value in the store.
Going to these extreme measures for something this insignificant seems like a big overreaction. The game has much bigger problems than this. And beating the mercs was always fun for me, like an extra obstacle i had to go through (or like an incoming node)
Appology not accepted, btw.

There's a large vat of sig stones in SOP. Either way, these legends runs were going to run twice a year (since that's how future content was shaping up to be released) so they aren't a reliable source of sig stones anyways. This isn't an insignificant issue, it's been plaguing the game ever since hard content came to be. Either everyone gets rewards fairly (without mercs ruining it for them) or no one gets it all.

SoP just showed up litteraly this summer. And Carina a few months back. And you said it, it was something that happened twice a year. People will still pay mercs to do their content. And the arenas.
Merc-ed legend runs was the smallest of issues in merc runned content an affects a small percentage of the top 1%. I did not care i had to compete against mercs. I loved it.
People thinking they'd have a shot without mercs have no idea. The planning, the execution, the commitment.
Lets say merc do cost some people top100. How many? 30-40-50??. For 50 people you're ruining something super fun.
And when mercs are out, more master level players with huge accounts will do it. And they'll get it, so your baby TB or Cav accounts stand no chance.

So it's fair for people to get pushed out of the Top 100 because the poor F2P players can't get a few 6* sig stones? Makes tons of sense.

No, but life isn't fair. Look at it as a learning experience. Just get better, beat the mercs. Anyway, 99.9999(9)% of the people complaining they didn't get legends because of mercs wouldn't get it anyway.

He says, realizing that if mercs hadn't been all over 7.1 I would have gotten my legends title and Weapon X. As a player with a lower income who still shells out every now and again, I put a ton of effort, time, and resources into my run. I was *really* close, too. Based on the times of the bottom few who made it, had the mercers been properly banned and disqualified, I would have made it just fine. But as it turns out, I can't beat a merc who has his clients pay for Iphone 12 pros or whatever runs the game fastest these days, nor can I simply buy the best champs every month or two. This argument is incredibly weak. It's essentially saying we should unban Russia from the Olympics because 'ah, it's fine, just beat the dopers'. You know how you beat the cheaters? By cheating. That's a vicious cycle that gets us nowhere. Your argument is weak, shortsighted, and defensive towards those same cheaters.

Shows how much you know about Legend Runs. The device you play on has no importance. Only the fight time is counted, so a faster loading phone has no effect on the results. I do it on a 5 year old iPhone 7 that I have to restart every 20min because of the lag.
7.1 had one of the biggest ban waves ever and you still didn't get it??? Weak.

Shows how much you know about devices. Did you know that lower-quality devices have stutters that increase fight time by virtue of taking longer to complete animations? Also goes to show you're cherrypicking my argument, and poorly.

Let's go over this once again.

'nor can I simply buy the best champs every month or two'.

You know who can? The skill-less whales who paid mercs. There's supposed to be a balance between great accounts and great skill. I HAVE a legends title-I have the skill to compete. But because I lacked ideal counters for two lanes, I got shut out by a round of cheaters who decided they would simply pay for skill as opposed to learn it themselves.

You look pretty weak continuing to defend cheating.

TheBair123

so i see that this thread has blown up a bit. let me clarify what i meant when i started this thread so there are no misconceptions.

yes, i am happy that there is something being done about mercs, because they're absolutely evil.

yes, i am also unhappy that the legends runs are indefinitely being removed. i have never done a legends run myself, but i enjoy watching streams of legends runs.

i truly believe that this is the first step in making the game less merc-friendly and eliminating cheating.

although this is a good start, more needs to be done. there should be ways to figure out that someone whose best champ is a 1/25 ebony maw didn't explore abyss. there should be a way to figure out that an alliance full of level 30 players didn't get a top 10 summoner advancement score. finally, there should be a way to figure out that if 10 out of the top 20 scores in an arena all have the same name, they're bots.

Demonzfyre

theham said:

Seriously...if you can confirm cheating, why not perma-ban them? Because that would solve most of this.

But I'm sure we can guess why they don't....

We don't know that they aren't. Plus the mercs aren't using their own accounts so it's not like Kabam can restrict access to a Merc since people.are along to give their login credentials out.