Why doesnt Falcon‘s redwing shut down Spider man evade

StarkyTone

In the new side quest, the spidey boss still evades when Falcon locks on. Why?

Comments

Fit_Fun9329

Enhanced abilities by 20% right ?

magnus_xix

Enhanced abilities

GrandOldKai

Because his ability accuracy somehow gets pushed above 100% by the Enhanced Abilities node.

Eb0ny-O-M4w

Enhanced ability accuracy. Falcon only reduces 100% of it

theMercenary

i’ll never understand this… this is working as intended but slow debuff is still bypassing enhanced abilities or ghost bypasses any enhanced evasion.

TheBair123

i’ll never understand this… this is working as intended but slow debuff is still bypassing enhanced abilities or ghost bypasses any enhanced evasion.

Slow is a lot different. It makes it so that the enemy just can’t evade

Rohit_316

Many things don't make sense in the game . Falcon reduces defensive AAR by 100% , but somehow the nodes take it to above 100% so Falcon fails.

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SwarmOfRavens

Many things don't make sense in the game . Falcon reduces defensive AAR by 100% , but somehow the nodes take it to above 100% so Falcon fails.

How doesn't that make sense...

AzKicker316

Once I saw this, I just switched to using Venom.

slayer6

It won’t work because kabam nodes over ride any abilities by our attackers, units and $ are king lol

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Championcritic

just take percentage based calculations in this game as + or - a number rather than applying the percentage by multiplying it as per normal.

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SirGamesBond

i’ll never understand this… this is working as intended but slow debuff is still bypassing enhanced abilities or ghost bypasses any enhanced evasion.
Slow is a lot different. It makes it so that the enemy just can’t evade
Ghost on the other hand is a different ability that just prevents it completely

Labyrinth and abyss sends hello

SwarmOfRavens

Many things don't make sense in the game . Falcon reduces defensive AAR by 100% , but somehow the nodes take it to above 100% so Falcon fails.
How doesn't that make sense...
Because even if you make someone 120% accurate, 100% of that is -120%.

Except falcons ability works as a flat reduction so it's -100%.

DNA3000

Many things don't make sense in the game . Falcon reduces defensive AAR by 100% , but somehow the nodes take it to above 100% so Falcon fails.
How doesn't that make sense...
Because even if you make someone 120% accurate, 100% of that is -120%.

Kabam, like pretty much everyone that isn’t rigorous with descriptions, uses the percent sign to mean two different things: percent and percentage points. However, those that think -100% “obviously” means “reduce to zero” in this context display an equal amount of ignorance. If I have 100 apples and I want to reduce that by 100, I can subtract 100 apples. If I have 100 percent of accuracy and I want to reduce that value by 100, what should I subtract by? 100 what?

In this context, there’s two potential meanings for the percent sign: as a (pseudo) unit, and as a multiplicative ratio. The only logical conclusion is that ambiguity must be resolved in context. Someone who doesn’t recognize there’s any ambiguity at all gets an F in basic math.

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Ercarret

I feel like this is most likely a result of the game having been out for so long that Kabam needs to be..."creative" in their solutions to abilities that work 100% of the time. Having a node that gives defenders the ability to trigger stuff despite having an attacker that reduces that chance fully isn't especially weird in and of itself. However, when you say that an attacker has the ability to counter a defender's abilities "to a 100% degree", and then just increase the defender's ability accuracy to 120%, that's just evidence of Kabam having exhausted the 0-100% range of abilities and saying that they need to go beyond it somehow, some way. I dislike that usage of percentages and evidently, as we see in this thread, it leads to confusion among players.

It's also worth noting that Spider-Man doesn't have a base 100% chance to evade attacks, he has about a 30% chance at max sig. So wouldn't the extra 50% from the node land him at around 80% chance, which Falcon would still counter fully?

Ercarret

@BitterSteel Do I understand the math correctly if I assume that leaves Spidey with a 15% evade chance even with lock-on active? (For the sake of simplicity, I'll say he has a 30% chance when it's really 28,7% or something.)

100% base + 50% from the node - 100% from lock-on = 50% (0,5).

0.5 x 0.3 (30%) evade chance = 0,15 = 15% remaining evade chance while locked-on?

I think my main problem with this is that it's a lot of math in order to understand if a champ is useful. I also think that it's a valid assumption that -100% ability accuracy would mean that that ability has absolutely no chance of activating under any circumstances. I understand the line of thinking that leads it to not be and I won't argue against its logic, but there's still something deep in my core that retches against the idea that [something]-100% is anything but 0.

If we still have to discuss how it works on the forum 7 years into the game's life, and whip out calculators to find out exactly how much of a chance a 100% reduction to that chance leaves us with, it all just seems like a rather inelegant solution to me.

Darkknight_94

Prof-x works just fine!

Lvernon15

i’ll never understand this… this is working as intended but slow debuff is still bypassing enhanced abilities or ghost bypasses any enhanced evasion.

Ghost isn’t aar it’s just flat out evade counter, slow is definitely a bit ambiguous

SpideyFunko

Once I saw this, I just switched to using Venom.

man now I feel really stupid

Colonaut123

It's simple. Every ability has two components: the visible Ability Accuracy and the Invisible Ability Accuracy Modifier. If a champion has a 30% chance to trigger an ability, it is actually 30% x 100%, with 100% being the Ability Accuracy Modifier.

Champions that reduce Ability Accuracy only alter the Ability Accuracy Modifier. In case of Falcon's Locked On, whenever Falcon makes contact, he subtracts the Ability Accuracy Modifier by 100%. As multiplying something by zero is zero, Falcon shuts down any ability while he makes contact.

[Sidenote: there are no such thing as "defensive" and "offensive" abilities. Both Defensive Ability Accuracy Reduction and Offensive Ability Accuracy Reduction requires making contact. Defensive Ability Accuracy Reduction merely means that while you make contact with the opponent, any abilities that would trigger by the opponent during that interval have their Ability Accuracy Modifier reduced by you. Offensive Ability Accuracy Reduction means that while you make contact with the opponent, any abilities that would trigger by you during that interval have their Ability Accuracy Modifier reduced by the opponent. Only generic Ability Accuracy Reduction reduces all abilities on the opponent or you regardless of making contact (like Blade's Danger Sense).]

A node like Enhanced Abilities also affect the Ability Accuracy Modifier. If the node increases Ability Accuracy by 50%, 50% is added to the Ability Accuracy Modifier, giving a total of 150%.

Falcon's Locked On and Enhanced Abilities give -100% + 50%, or -50% in total.

The best counters are:
- abilities that reduce the Ability Accuracy Modifier below 100% (like Crossbones);
- abilities that simply make evade fail, regardless of their Ability Accuracy (like Hit Monkey, Night Thrasher, Venom, Killmonger or any True Accuracy/Strike/Focus champion).

Real_Madrid_76_2

Why do you need to reduce ability accuracy if you can slow the opponent using heavy attacks with Swen or shulk

The_Sentry06

Why do you need to reduce ability accuracy if you can slow the opponent using heavy attacks with Swen or shulk

Bruh.

AverageDesi

i’ll never understand this… this is working as intended but slow debuff is still bypassing enhanced abilities or ghost bypasses any enhanced evasion.
So I’m not sure about ghost, but Slow works in two ways

1) it stops the buff/ability from triggering. This is a -100% ability accuracy

2) it stops the ability from having any effect (opponent can’t evade or be unstoppable, as in ignore the impact of a hit). This is a simple on off switch, outside of any ability accuracy reduction.

The first point means that if you have slow applied when the opponent triggers unstoppable it reduces the ability accuracy of that unstoppable and it won’t trigger. But this also means that if the opponent has enhanced abilities then the buff itself can still trigger.

However, this is when the second point kicks in. The effect of the buff is cancelled out by slow, whether or not the opponent has enhanced ability accuracy or not. This means that if an opponent is already unstoppable you can still slow them.

Imagine if only point one was in effect and slow only stopped unstoppable buffs from triggering, you wouldn’t be able to slow someone while they’re unstoppable, because you can’t stop a buff after it’s triggered. So slow has to cancel the effect of the unstoppable too.

So an enemy with enhanced abilities, can still trigger the buff because they ignore the reduction of the first point, but because the impact of the attack isn’t ignored when an opponent is unstoppable, that part of the ability isn’t affected by enhanced abilities.

i think it has to do with slows wordin. it does not say reduces evade chance by 100%. but evade ability accuracy. o im thinking its hierarchical,

champ--> ability accuracy(n)-->evade ability accuracy--> evade chance
falcon attacks the second step. so increased ability accuracy will neuter him

but slow, slow affects the (evade ability accuracy part). which for almost all champs are always at 100% Spider gwen being an exception for unblockable special attacks. now, once that is reduced to zero no matter whate ability accuracy or evade chance is, its worthless.

another point to note is that slow works even in champs who have force of will. so it's safe to assume it works independent of ability accuracy

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DNA3000

It's simple. Every ability has two components: the visible Ability Accuracy and the Invisible Ability Accuracy Modifier. If a champion has a 30% chance to trigger an ability, it is actually 30% x 100%, with 100% being the Ability Accuracy Modifier.

Actually, the "hidden ability accuracy modifier" is not a hidden property of the ability, it is actually an invisible champion stat. When you debuff AA, you're really debuffing the champion's AA. That AA gets multiplied to any of that' champion's ability's AA to get the final AA.

In fact, weirdly there was actually a loading screen help text that explained this long ago, and it was removed a few years back for reasons unknown.

Duram

Because it decreases it by a flat 100% so if any defensive is above 100% by anything they can still do it