Red mags damage working fine?

Ps_cr7Ps_cr7 Member Posts: 296 ★★
in General Discussion
I went with red mags in act 7.1.1 and 6.2.1, he used to do more damage on sp3 with 35+ prowess against metals. Does anyone experience the same?
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Comments

  • Pseudo_19Pseudo_19 Member Posts: 396 ★★
    Same thing happened to me in 7.1.1, masochism nebula path, had 40 prowess and only took her down to 48% health, I immediately quit the fight, went back in and had 42 prowess and easily finished off nebula with damage to spare
  • Ps_cr7Ps_cr7 Member Posts: 296 ★★
    ItsDamien said:

    Pseudo_19 said:

    Same thing happened to me in 7.1.1, masochism nebula path, had 40 prowess and only took her down to 48% health, I immediately quit the fight, went back in and had 42 prowess and easily finished off nebula with damage to spare

    That’s because the armour breaks are probably being removed by masochism.
    It's red mags against metal, you didn't need armor breaks, you just needed prowess.
  • Ps_cr7Ps_cr7 Member Posts: 296 ★★
    edited September 2021
    Let me reiterate, for some of those who didn't get my point. Also, it was a question, so you could have said, it's working fine. But no ,you have to be pound down.
    Till few days before, red mags 35+ prowess against metal, no Armor break, I was finishing easily with sp3 but today I didn't get same damage in the quests .
    Red mags apply bleed/Armor breaks after sp3, not during or before I hit sp3, so earlier damage that I was getting was not because of 'armor breaks', it was just because of prowess and #metal.
  • Ps_cr7Ps_cr7 Member Posts: 296 ★★
    H3t3r said:

    Ps_cr7 said:

    Let me reiterate, for some of those who didn't get my point. Also, it was a question, so you could have said, it's working fine. But no ,you have to be pound down.
    Till few days before, red mags 35+ prowess against metal, no Armor break, I was finishing easily with sp3 but today I didn't get same damage in the quests .
    Red mags apply bleed/Armor breaks after sp3, not during or before I hit sp3, so earlier damage that I was getting was not because of 'armor breaks', it was just because of prowess and #metal.

    you're wrong lol
    So, it's working fine for you I guess. Okay.
  • Pseudo_19Pseudo_19 Member Posts: 396 ★★
    ItsDamien said:

    Pseudo_19 said:

    Same thing happened to me in 7.1.1, masochism nebula path, had 40 prowess and only took her down to 48% health, I immediately quit the fight, went back in and had 42 prowess and easily finished off nebula with damage to spare

    That’s because the armour breaks are probably being removed by masochism.
    I didn’t think of that, that makes much more sense, masochism fails a lot with red mags against metals, and he does apply armor breaks that apply to his sp3 damage that is why he has great damage against metal bleed immune champs
  • Ps_cr7Ps_cr7 Member Posts: 296 ★★
    edited September 2021
    Zan0 said:

    Ps_cr7 said:

    Let me reiterate, for some of those who didn't get my point. Also, it was a question, so you could have said, it's working fine. But no ,you have to be pound down.
    Till few days before, red mags 35+ prowess against metal, no Armor break, I was finishing easily with sp3 but today I didn't get same damage in the quests .
    Red mags apply bleed/Armor breaks after sp3, not during or before I hit sp3, so earlier damage that I was getting was not because of 'armor breaks', it was just because of prowess and #metal.

    He applies the armour break and bleed before the special
    Okay, but I was not on mascho path 3 times, that is why I asked. But I will check.
  • H3t3rH3t3r Member, Guardian Posts: 2,882 Guardian
    Ps_cr7 said:

    Zan0 said:

    Ps_cr7 said:

    Let me reiterate, for some of those who didn't get my point. Also, it was a question, so you could have said, it's working fine. But no ,you have to be pound down.
    Till few days before, red mags 35+ prowess against metal, no Armor break, I was finishing easily with sp3 but today I didn't get same damage in the quests .
    Red mags apply bleed/Armor breaks after sp3, not during or before I hit sp3, so earlier damage that I was getting was not because of 'armor breaks', it was just because of prowess and #metal.

    He applies the armour break and bleed before the special
    Okay, but I was not on mascho path 3 times, that is why I asked. But I will check.
    you said 7.1.1 and 6.2.1 both quests have masochism paths
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  • Will3808Will3808 Member Posts: 3,784 ★★★★★
    Ps_cr7 said:

    Let me reiterate, for some of those who didn't get my point. Also, it was a question, so you could have said, it's working fine. But no ,you have to be pound down.
    Till few days before, red mags 35+ prowess against metal, no Armor break, I was finishing easily with sp3 but today I didn't get same damage in the quests .
    Red mags apply bleed/Armor breaks after sp3, not during or before I hit sp3, so earlier damage that I was getting was not because of 'armor breaks', it was just because of prowess and #metal.

    Red mags applies armor breaks before his sp3 against metal, bleed immune champions so that they apply on it. That’s what makes him do crazy damage on his sp3 against metal, bleed immunes.
  • Will3808Will3808 Member Posts: 3,784 ★★★★★
    If you could please tell us which path you were on and who the champions you were fighting, that would be super helpful.
  • AMS94AMS94 Member Posts: 1,776 ★★★★★
    Yes his Sp3 damage has been modified
    Not sure about the bleeds but his damage against bleed immune is definitely much less than what it used to be
    To anyone that says I don't know what I'm talking about, I use him consistently against ROL Vision fr my potion farming runs & the damage has shown a significant decline fr more than a month now
    Earlier I could get him down in about 17-18 hits (all hits being heavies) with nearly 32-35 prowess, & with that even the first hit of Sp3 would let me know that Vision is done now bcoz the damage used to be that big....overall damage seemed to be close to about a million with these numbers
    It never used to happen where Vision would survive after a Sp3
    But now he often survives & remains at about 15-20% health with similar numbers i.e. 17-18 heavies & 32-35 prowess
    Just yesterday I ws 20 heavies in with 43 prowess & I didn't know whether Vision will die or not till the entire Sp3 ws complete as he ws left with 44% health after first 2 hits (whereas earlier he used to be about 25-30% health after first 2 hits with less number of heavies & prowess)
    I don't know if I cn call it a nerf yet but definitely there has been some meddling with his numbers, without question
    Now what is to be seen is if it's just a bug or is it intentional
    And it's not just ROL...I also noticed this against the SOP Darkhawk boss where I had to do 2 sp3 to get him down whereas I ws sure I had enough prowess to get him down comfortably (I only used heavies in that fights)
    His damage feels at about 50-60% of what it used to be
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,097 ★★★★★
    edited September 2021
    AMS94 said:

    Yes his Sp3 damage has been modified
    Not sure about the bleeds but his damage against bleed immune is definitely much less than what it used to be
    To anyone that says I don't know what I'm talking about, I use him consistently against ROL Vision fr my potion farming runs & the damage has shown a significant decline fr more than a month now
    Earlier I could get him down in about 17-18 hits (all hits being heavies) with nearly 32-35 prowess, & with that even the first hit of Sp3 would let me know that Vision is done now bcoz the damage used to be that big....overall damage seemed to be close to about a million with these numbers
    It never used to happen where Vision would survive after a Sp3
    But now he often survives & remains at about 15-20% health with similar numbers i.e. 17-18 heavies & 32-35 prowess
    Just yesterday I ws 20 heavies in with 43 prowess & I didn't know whether Vision will die or not till the entire Sp3 ws complete as he ws left with 44% health after first 2 hits (whereas earlier he used to be about 25-30% health after first 2 hits with less number of heavies & prowess)
    I don't know if I cn call it a nerf yet but definitely there has been some meddling with his numbers, without question
    Now what is to be seen is if it's just a bug or is it intentional
    And it's not just ROL...I also noticed this against the SOP Darkhawk boss where I had to do 2 sp3 to get him down whereas I ws sure I had enough prowess to get him down comfortably (I only used heavies in that fights)
    His damage feels at about 50-60% of what it used to be

    Do you have any video proof? What team are you using?
  • AMS94AMS94 Member Posts: 1,776 ★★★★★
    Demonzfyre said:

    AMS94 said:

    Yes his Sp3 damage has been modified
    Not sure about the bleeds but his damage against bleed immune is definitely much less than what it used to be
    To anyone that says I don't know what I'm talking about, I use him consistently against ROL Vision fr my potion farming runs & the damage has shown a significant decline fr more than a month now
    Earlier I could get him down in about 17-18 hits (all hits being heavies) with nearly 32-35 prowess, & with that even the first hit of Sp3 would let me know that Vision is done now bcoz the damage used to be that big....overall damage seemed to be close to about a million with these numbers
    It never used to happen where Vision would survive after a Sp3
    But now he often survives & remains at about 15-20% health with similar numbers i.e. 17-18 heavies & 32-35 prowess
    Just yesterday I ws 20 heavies in with 43 prowess & I didn't know whether Vision will die or not till the entire Sp3 ws complete as he ws left with 44% health after first 2 hits (whereas earlier he used to be about 25-30% health after first 2 hits with less number of heavies & prowess)
    I don't know if I cn call it a nerf yet but definitely there has been some meddling with his numbers, without question
    Now what is to be seen is if it's just a bug or is it intentional
    And it's not just ROL...I also noticed this against the SOP Darkhawk boss where I had to do 2 sp3 to get him down whereas I ws sure I had enough prowess to get him down comfortably (I only used heavies in that fights)
    His damage feels at about 50-60% of what it used to be

    Do you have any video proof? What team are you using?
    I cn only make a video fr the damage he does currently but don't have any earlier videos
    As far as team is concerned, I generally use the same team fr potion farming except when testing new champs
    Fury fr most fights, SheHulk fr Juggs, Mags fr Vision, Torch fr SW & Wolverine, & AA just fr filling the 5th spot
  • GildenlowGildenlow Member Posts: 691 ★★★
    I think red mags is bugged, I just fight against him on map7, as the second mini boss.

    I was using corvus and he just didn't magneticed me (sorry if this word doesn't exist), neither did reduce AA so he was extremely easy to fight.
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  • AMS94AMS94 Member Posts: 1,776 ★★★★★
    Wordunken said:

    there are two important causes for this (its probably working fine)

    1. the prowess potency differs. heavy prowess gives %20 sp dmg while copied one gives only %5 so its not the same amount of buff for every magneto wth 35 prowess, its important how many of those are from heavies and clones.

    2. the armour break is very important. effects applied from sp3 works for the sp3 dmg itself too .so you actualy deal the dmg with the armour reduction applied, secondly you have a % chance for every prowess to apply bleed and in this case an armour break so even if you have exact amount of specified prowesses it still can vary. and lastly any prevention for those armourbreaks can alter the dmg of it.
    (immune remove etc. ı dont know purifing causes it to work before or after it but you probably dealing with a metal so there is huge chance for it to fail too)

    3. it already does an absurd amount of dmg. so dont mind it :D but prioritize the heavy proweses ; they are much more potent.

    That is why I specifically mentioned that all my hits except Sp3 were heavies only
    About 18 20% prowess with 18 5% prowess, & the damage is still significantly less than it used to be
    At first even I thought that it might be due to most of the prowess being 5% ones & that's why I did the fight twice again with heavies only
    Once with 18 heavies & 37 prowess
    Once with 20 heavies & 43 prowess
    I remember how Mags used to shred that fight under 20 hits & now it's not the same
    May be people will disagree but it has happened, at least on my account if not to everyone else
    While the damage is still great, but healthpools are rising & soon it won't be one Sp3 & u're done
  • The_Sentry06The_Sentry06 Member Posts: 7,789 ★★★★★
    AMS94 said:

    Wordunken said:

    there are two important causes for this (its probably working fine)

    1. the prowess potency differs. heavy prowess gives %20 sp dmg while copied one gives only %5 so its not the same amount of buff for every magneto wth 35 prowess, its important how many of those are from heavies and clones.

    2. the armour break is very important. effects applied from sp3 works for the sp3 dmg itself too .so you actualy deal the dmg with the armour reduction applied, secondly you have a % chance for every prowess to apply bleed and in this case an armour break so even if you have exact amount of specified prowesses it still can vary. and lastly any prevention for those armourbreaks can alter the dmg of it.
    (immune remove etc. ı dont know purifing causes it to work before or after it but you probably dealing with a metal so there is huge chance for it to fail too)

    3. it already does an absurd amount of dmg. so dont mind it :D but prioritize the heavy proweses ; they are much more potent.

    That is why I specifically mentioned that all my hits except Sp3 were heavies only
    About 18 20% prowess with 18 5% prowess, & the damage is still significantly less than it used to be
    At first even I thought that it might be due to most of the prowess being 5% ones & that's why I did the fight twice again with heavies only
    Once with 18 heavies & 37 prowess
    Once with 20 heavies & 43 prowess
    I remember how Mags used to shred that fight under 20 hits & now it's not the same
    May be people will disagree but it has happened, at least on my account if not to everyone else
    While the damage is still great, but healthpools are rising & soon it won't be one Sp3 & u're done
    Sharing a video on the damage done currently would be nice.
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  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,097 ★★★★★
    https://youtu.be/pytjlQ8w3tY

    Works fine.
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  • AMS94AMS94 Member Posts: 1,776 ★★★★★
    Wordunken said:

    As i say even if you have the exact prowesses the armourbreak amount can vary so if you are incredibly unluvky you can fail all of the armor break rolls. And armor reduction feels more potent for different intervals with high amount armor oponents.

    If enemy has %50 dmg reduct from armor and lets assume this value to be equal to 3000 armor and there is diminising returns in this game so if you reduce its armor to 1000 it can still have %40 dmg reduct but at 100 armor value the effect can be reduced about %5 thats why low armor break value are generally considered meaningless when it comes to fighting huge armor values and why armor breaks removes armor on top off reducing it on the first place.

    In your case maybe the enemy has resistance +already decent armour and you were unlucky on your armmour break rolls and couldnt get more than 10(random number) so the dmg couldnt even get to negative armor ratings.(feels small)

    But for the other case this dimishing returns doesnt seem to take effect but let alone increase the effect just like a log func slope(i dont know this for sure but feels like it)

    So in this situation the armor breaks stack to 20 the enemy already has low armor and the dmg boost skyrocketed.

    This can all be wrong. Im just coming up with my own posible explanation. As people sad a video would be much better.

    I agree that his Armor Breaks are RnG dependent just like his bleeds, but that ws not the point
    In short my point is that, earlier I could do about 700k-800k damage whereas now that damage seems to be consistently less than 500k, even though the number of heavies & total prowess are almost the same
    If it ws just RnG, then in my earlier runs there would have been variances, but he used to consistently kill him every single time with a lot of overkill in the 3rd hit of his Sp3
    Now that doesn't happen & most of the times he survives the Sp3 & I gotta do 1 or 2 combos after that to finish him
    It doesn't make sense that earlier I always used to get good RnG on my Armor Breaks but now I always get poor RnG, whereas the % chance in his abilities has always been the same
    And as said earlier, I cn only provide a video fr how he does now, but I don't have any earlier videos to provide fr comparison
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,097 ★★★★★
    AMS94 said:

    Wordunken said:

    As i say even if you have the exact prowesses the armourbreak amount can vary so if you are incredibly unluvky you can fail all of the armor break rolls. And armor reduction feels more potent for different intervals with high amount armor oponents.

    If enemy has %50 dmg reduct from armor and lets assume this value to be equal to 3000 armor and there is diminising returns in this game so if you reduce its armor to 1000 it can still have %40 dmg reduct but at 100 armor value the effect can be reduced about %5 thats why low armor break value are generally considered meaningless when it comes to fighting huge armor values and why armor breaks removes armor on top off reducing it on the first place.

    In your case maybe the enemy has resistance +already decent armour and you were unlucky on your armmour break rolls and couldnt get more than 10(random number) so the dmg couldnt even get to negative armor ratings.(feels small)

    But for the other case this dimishing returns doesnt seem to take effect but let alone increase the effect just like a log func slope(i dont know this for sure but feels like it)

    So in this situation the armor breaks stack to 20 the enemy already has low armor and the dmg boost skyrocketed.

    This can all be wrong. Im just coming up with my own posible explanation. As people sad a video would be much better.

    I agree that his Armor Breaks are RnG dependent just like his bleeds, but that ws not the point
    In short my point is that, earlier I could do about 700k-800k damage whereas now that damage seems to be consistently less than 500k, even though the number of heavies & total prowess are almost the same
    If it ws just RnG, then in my earlier runs there would have been variances, but he used to consistently kill him every single time with a lot of overkill in the 3rd hit of his Sp3
    Now that doesn't happen & most of the times he survives the Sp3 & I gotta do 1 or 2 combos after that to finish him
    It doesn't make sense that earlier I always used to get good RnG on my Armor Breaks but now I always get poor RnG, whereas the % chance in his abilities has always been the same
    And as said earlier, I cn only provide a video fr how he does now, but I don't have any earlier videos to provide fr comparison
    What rarity or rank are you using?
  • AMS94AMS94 Member Posts: 1,776 ★★★★★
    Demonzfyre said:

    AMS94 said:

    Wordunken said:

    As i say even if you have the exact prowesses the armourbreak amount can vary so if you are incredibly unluvky you can fail all of the armor break rolls. And armor reduction feels more potent for different intervals with high amount armor oponents.

    If enemy has %50 dmg reduct from armor and lets assume this value to be equal to 3000 armor and there is diminising returns in this game so if you reduce its armor to 1000 it can still have %40 dmg reduct but at 100 armor value the effect can be reduced about %5 thats why low armor break value are generally considered meaningless when it comes to fighting huge armor values and why armor breaks removes armor on top off reducing it on the first place.

    In your case maybe the enemy has resistance +already decent armour and you were unlucky on your armmour break rolls and couldnt get more than 10(random number) so the dmg couldnt even get to negative armor ratings.(feels small)

    But for the other case this dimishing returns doesnt seem to take effect but let alone increase the effect just like a log func slope(i dont know this for sure but feels like it)

    So in this situation the armor breaks stack to 20 the enemy already has low armor and the dmg boost skyrocketed.

    This can all be wrong. Im just coming up with my own posible explanation. As people sad a video would be much better.

    I agree that his Armor Breaks are RnG dependent just like his bleeds, but that ws not the point
    In short my point is that, earlier I could do about 700k-800k damage whereas now that damage seems to be consistently less than 500k, even though the number of heavies & total prowess are almost the same
    If it ws just RnG, then in my earlier runs there would have been variances, but he used to consistently kill him every single time with a lot of overkill in the 3rd hit of his Sp3
    Now that doesn't happen & most of the times he survives the Sp3 & I gotta do 1 or 2 combos after that to finish him
    It doesn't make sense that earlier I always used to get good RnG on my Armor Breaks but now I always get poor RnG, whereas the % chance in his abilities has always been the same
    And as said earlier, I cn only provide a video fr how he does now, but I don't have any earlier videos to provide fr comparison
    What rarity or rank are you using?
    5* 5/65 sig 100 without suicides
    No boosts, No synergies
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